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Games => General Gaming => Topic started by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 10:59:37 AM

Title: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 10:59:37 AM: I'm joining Scott in attempting to get some posts going here. The one relevant thing I can discuss is Zelda: Twilight Princess. I know it's over a year old, but I recently finished it for the first time, after abandoning it for a year, and I'm most of the way through a second game.

To lead off, I have some major bias to unload and confess. I think what Nintendo did with the Wii version of this superb game is a travesty. Mirroring the entire map of Hyrule, and Link himself, who has always been left handed, only because of the Wii controllers, is the most stupid thing Nintendo has ever done to the franchise--and I'm including the pathetic spinoffs with Zelda names that have nothing much to do with real Zelda games. The whole thing reeks of internal politics, where all sense of continuity was abandoned in an instant to keep the new hardware from looking infallible. The sun rises in the West and sets in the East, where the desert moved to, but hey, no one is going to complain about swinging a left-handed sword with the right arm. Rah! The game was designed for years for the Gamecube, and as far as I'm concerned, that's the only version that matters. The ironic thing is that I ended up playing the GC version on the Wii, which allows for a lovely progressive (480p) display. The jaggies show the age of the technology, but it's still the best-looking Zelda game yet.

The unusual thing about TP is how heavy it is with story elements and forced plot points. Storytelling has improved from previous games, but the downside is that the world feels much more claustrophobic for at least the first 15 hours of play. This game did not sell nearly as well as previous efforts in Japan, and I wonder if this problem may have played a role in the lower sales. As a wolf in the early stages of the game, you are forced to follow the plot with almost no reason ever to deviate from the path sometimes literally laid out in front of you. (You follow a scent path. The game leads you by the nose, literally and figuratively.) Oh, I tried. I scampered all over Hyrule field looking for anything worthwhile. There is absolutely nothing. Only much later, when you have the full range of choices, does TP become a more traditional Zelda experience. I'm aware that all Zelda games confine you at first, but not to this absolutely linear degree for such a long time.

But there is so much good work here, so much attention to detail that I can't figure out a way to describe it very well. The characters are the best they've ever been--looks, expressions, motions, behavior, AI. The combat is just about perfect. Link learns several new moves along the way, and they’re actually needed in the later stages and during one particularly tough, long side quest. The advanced enemies are genuinely difficult. The way they can team up against you is both impressive and frustrating. While you’re defending against one guy, another will clobber you from the side. You will need those 20 hearts you always collect in Zelda games by the time you face the fiercest opponents. This is definitely not another Wind Waker cakewalk. Nothing has impressed me more yet than 3 darknuts—heavy knights with 2 very smart battle modes—teaming up against me in a mini phalanx. Christ. They were too much for me, yet I felt more awe than frustration losing to them. The final boss is easier than this, but it’s an amazing battle. Even without the Wii swinging antics, it had me sweating. Horseback battles against other mounted enemies in Hyrule field are much easier, but so much fun. Nintendo have outdone themselves this time with all hostile interactions.

The world is huge and beautiful. The music changes with locale, with activity, and with the day and night. The sun and moon move fluidly across the sky, clouds roll by and cast shadows, sunsets cast an orange glow on everything, and then stars begin to dot the sky. Textures have improved, though there are still some bad ones. Water surfaces look terrific, but waterfalls can look downright chunky and odd. The sound effects are exactly what they should be, and where they should be. I have very few technical complaints overall.

Likewise, the GC control is pretty much what it should be, and very similar to Wind Waker’s. I’m sure this is the biggest debate point, given that Wii controls were tacked on at the last minute, and it seems one in particular, Wii remote aiming, was implemented very well. To offset that, however, you cannot control the camera directly in the Wii version, something we all expect in 3D Zeldas. All you can do is snap the camera position with the C button. On the GC controller, C is a whole joystick. Coordinating movement with view adjustments is one of the joys I’d hate to lose. After playing Mario Galaxy and Metroid’ 3 with the Wii controllers, I was less than impressed whenever the action called for using multiple buttons. Once you need to start using buttons 1 and 2, and the D-pad—all awkwardly placed when holding the Wii remote with one hand—it becomes a thumb-straining chore. Pass.

This game is long. If you’re going for everything, and you don’t resort to FAQs, I think there’s a good 70-80 hours of good fun here. Even knowing what to do, I’m at over 30 hours on the 2nd playthrough, and I just got to the next-to-last dungeon. Epic scale, to be sure.

Miyamoto expressed disappointment in the sales figures for the game at home. He fears the demographics may have changed, and that makes me fear that this is the last true Zelda game we may see. No one should miss it. Pick your poison, Wii or GC, and go to Hyrule for what may be a swan song, a very fitting one.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: idolminds on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 12:00:12 PM: Been hoping to find a copy cheap for the GC, and then figured I'd get a Wii copy just to compare and for collection.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 12:32:42 PM: I read one review which said that it is "insanely disorienting" to switch back and forth between the two. I'm not surprised. If a Wii copy falls on my lap somehow, I'll check it out, but I'm not going to go out and buy one, at any price.

Edit: Found the "review" (http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3155983), which really only covers the differences from the Wii version (which I'm guessing got the full review).

Quote
Honestly, there are only three differences between the two editions of the game: a different control scheme, lack of widescreen support for GameCube, and the fact that each version is quite literally the mirror image of the other. The mirroring has to do with the game being flipped to make traditional lefty Link a right-hander on Wii to match up with the controls, and it's insanely disorienting when moving from one console to the other -- but it doesn't matter in the least if the GameCube is your first time to play Twilight Princess. As a matter of fact, it's this version which has Hyrule's "true" layout; the game world was designed to echo Ocarina of Time's landscape, and the adventure feels just a little more nostalgic when certain areas accurately coincide with those from the previous game.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 02:18:19 PM: I would be sad if ZTP is the last true Zelda game, but at the same time haven't we basically been playing the same game since Ocarina of Time?
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, April 08, 2008, 02:31:02 PM: I'd say Ocarina is the last revolutionary Zelda. Everything worthwhile since has been evolutionary, including The Minish Cap, an evolution from A Link to the Past with Wind Waker ties. I'd hardly call it the same game, though. It's generally the same premise with generally the same mechanics, yes. So are most FPS games. I'd agree that a deciding factor on playing it should be whether you liked Ocarina and its mechanics. If it left you cold, then TP is not going to sit well. If you loved it, then don't miss TP.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Quemaqua on Wednesday, April 09, 2008, 01:33:57 AM: I still have so much Zelda to go through before I can allow myself to care about this one. I didn't get Minish Cap, and I still haven't played Ocarina or finished Wind Waker. I know, I suck. I just haven't ever seemed to find the time.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 09, 2008, 11:46:24 AM: I'm playing Wind Waker again now. TP is said to use a modified version of the WW engine, and there are some elements of the game that make that very plausible (like the portals). I wanted to compare, and to go through at least some of the game again. It too allows progressive display, and it looks so good. It uses the same TP blend effects which rely on interlacing, though, and that can look a bit odd (in progressive mode). The controls are very similar, with the head scratcher being much better vertical camera control than TP's. The paranoid in me wonders if Nintendo politics played a hand here as well. Can't have vastly superior camera control in the GC version of a Wii game, perhaps?

This game is (C) 2002, 2003. Damn it. My life is evaporating away. I can't believe it's been that long already. I got the sail for the boat now, and going for some aimless sailing is the last thing I did last night. I love this aspect of the game, and I'm sorry so many found it boring.

I have one dungeon before the final, er scenario in TP in my 2nd game (which includes yet another dungeon, really, but . . . hell I can't specify without spoiling). I was getting a bit tired of it, which is why I moved on. I guess I've sunk about 120 hours into the game, almost rivaling FF XII--though that was a single play through. The one negative about Zelda games is that they contrive situations specifically to gadgets you pick up along the way. TP has the silliest gadget yet, I think. I won't spoil it, but when I got it, I laughed and almost said out loud "you've got to be kidding". To me, the joy is the big world which increasingly opens up with your abilities. Getting trained like a monkey to use one gadget in one particular way is my least favorite part. I enjoy the dungeon puzzles, but not so much the contrived, gadget-dependent boss battles. While TP has quite a few of those, they made the final encounter a real knock-down drag-out fight, something that almost makes sense in the real world. That was special, and it shouldn't be missed.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, April 09, 2008, 04:24:31 PM: (click to show/hide)
Cobra, are you talking about the spinning gear gadget?
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, April 09, 2008, 11:16:56 PM: Yes! That's the one.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Thursday, April 10, 2008, 07:05:50 PM: I'm torn. I'd like to play this, Windwaker, the Metroid Prime games, and some other Nintendo titles but the Wii is still priced above what it's worth to me. On the other hand, gamecubes are retarded cheap right now. I'm not sure what to do.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, June 21, 2009, 05:15:38 PM: Yeah, I'm bumping a old thread and am years late to the party. Sue me.

Yesterday I decided that I've let the Zelda:TP sit too long and finally jumped into in. Now, about six hours in it pisses me off, constantly. Mind you, it isn't really the game. I like the game and really want to enjoy it, but for everything I enjoy I'm constantly fighting and cringing at all the Wii shit that was tacked on that is practically bringing the game near ruin.

The worse offender is the motion controlled sword stuff, which is really nothing more than jerking the controller around to make Link swing a sword. It's awful and completely annoying. Having to swing the sword around just to make Link draw his sword is even more annoying and half the time the motions don't even read. Now that I'm starting to get into the dungeons and getting into combat more often, playing has more or less devolved into jerking the controller around with the hopes something would happen and I dread combat because of it. Even worse are the little five second meaningless fights that take far more effort than they should.

Next is the lame ass speaker on the Wii-mote. Whoever thought it would be a cool idea to pipe in half the games sounds through the crappy speaker on the controller so it could all sound like it's being created by a vibrating sheet of foil needs to be murdered. I can dig menu beeps and stuff, that's cool. Everything else is just bad and distracting.

The one good thing about the Wii controls is the aiming with the pointer. It's quick and efficient. However, to enjoy it you have to deal with a little fairy pointer on screen which makes little twinkle fairy sounds whenever you move the pointer around. When you combine this with all the swinging you have to do in order to fighting, it's constantly twinkling around.

It's a real shame. There's plenty to enjoy with the game itself, but someone at Nintendo decided it was better to make the player fighting through an extra layer of crap to enjoy it and I'm not sure I'm willing to deal with it anymore. The Gamecube version is also still to expensive to be an alternative as well (and it doesn't look like it'll be one of those things that actually drops in price).
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: iPPi on Sunday, June 21, 2009, 06:04:17 PM: I really dislike Twilight Princess. It got rave reviews and stuff but I just can't bring myself to like the game. I played it about a year ago and put a total of about 18 hours into it but I never finished it... and unfortunately, I have no desire to go back to the game.

If I do boot it up again I probably have to start over since I've forgotten the entire plot anyway.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Ghandi on Sunday, June 21, 2009, 06:12:05 PM: Sy it seems like you just need the Gamecube version, it doesn't have any of the annoying crap you mentioned. I'm surprised that it's so expensive. Most Gamecube games are dirt cheap these days.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, June 21, 2009, 06:21:26 PM: I'm pretty sure it'd fix the problems, but even used stuff is about $30 on Amazon. That's too much right now. If I could find a new version for $20-$25, then I'd be interested.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: PyroMenace on Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:53:18 AM: Do you want me to mail you mine? I have the GCN copy and Ive already played it and dont really plan to touch it anytime soon.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Monday, June 22, 2009, 01:20:13 AM: No. I'm far enough in that I wouldn't like to restart at this point. If I quit, I'm done for a good long while. Thank you for the offer.

For what it's worth, I put a few more hours in am feeling like I can live with the problems more. I also changed how I'm sitting so I'm playing more like I did with Metroid Prime and more comfortable with moving the controllers around more. It's actually the seating arrangement I generally use when I seriously play a console game, but I take it apart often in order to have a bit more room in the living room. I was just being lazy and trying to play without putting it back up.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Pugnate on Monday, June 22, 2009, 07:10:10 AM: Quote from: sirean_syan on Sunday, June 21, 2009, 05:15:38 PM
Yeah, I'm bumping a old thread and am years late to the party. Sue me.

Yesterday I decided that I've let the Zelda:TP sit too long and finally jumped into in. Now, about six hours in it pisses me off, constantly. Mind you, it isn't really the game. I like the game and really want to enjoy it, but for everything I enjoy I'm constantly fighting and cringing at all the Wii shit that was tacked on that is practically bringing the game near ruin.

The worse offender is the motion controlled sword stuff, which is really nothing more than jerking the controller around to make Link swing a sword. It's awful and completely annoying. Having to swing the sword around just to make Link draw his sword is even more annoying and half the time the motions don't even read. Now that I'm starting to get into the dungeons and getting into combat more often, playing has more or less devolved into jerking the controller around with the hopes something would happen and I dread combat because of it. Even worse are the little five second meaningless fights that take far more effort than they should.

Next is the lame ass speaker on the Wii-mote. Whoever thought it would be a cool idea to pipe in half the games sounds through the crappy speaker on the controller so it could all sound like it's being created by a vibrating sheet of foil needs to be murdered. I can dig menu beeps and stuff, that's cool. Everything else is just bad and distracting.

The one good thing about the Wii controls is the aiming with the pointer. It's quick and efficient. However, to enjoy it you have to deal with a little fairy pointer on screen which makes little twinkle fairy sounds whenever you move the pointer around. When you combine this with all the swinging you have to do in order to fighting, it's constantly twinkling around.

It's a real shame. There's plenty to enjoy with the game itself, but someone at Nintendo decided it was better to make the player fighting through an extra layer of crap to enjoy it and I'm not sure I'm willing to deal with it anymore. The Gamecube version is also still to expensive to be an alternative as well (and it doesn't look like it'll be one of those things that actually drops in price).

Our lawyers are busy with D.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Monday, June 22, 2009, 07:21:06 AM: Quote from: PyroMenace on Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:53:18 AM
Do you want me to mail you mine? I have the GCN copy and Ive already played it and dont really plan to touch it anytime soon.

If you're wanting to part with it, I'm interested. Especially if it's complete and in good condition.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Monday, June 22, 2009, 10:33:07 PM: Alright, another day of playing and I think starting to want to just give it up. The Wii stuff is still pissing me off, but the game itself just isn't gelling. I dunno. It just feels off and tacked together. I've been poking around reviews and found this quote which is similar to how I feel about things right now.

[quote="Honest Gamers]Something, however, is amiss in this iteration of the Hyrulian canon. Grumbling beneath the desire to lavish anything Link is in with (healing) hearts is an abnormal sense that Twilight Princess doesn't have all its rupees together. It's the unsettling feeling that makes me ponder whether my standards as a critic, a gamer that has seen and played too much, are exorbitantly high. I liked the game, darn it! It is majestic, captivating, engrossing, and above all, fun. So what's my problem?!

After putting down my Wii-mote for more than fourteen and a half hours (I'm not counting), following a week-long vacation in keese-infested landscapes, I finally realized that Twilight Princess could have been better - tighter, fuller, and more unified - and less… odd.[/quote]

At some point, Zelda got a bit strange and it never completely sat right with me. The silly stuff fit in Ocarina of Time because it was sorta rare and the game still had cartoonish feel. It was at home in the Wind Waker, but here it's just out of place. It's like they go and make a world that looks like it can be huge and interesting, but then fill it was stupidly strange characters and situations that are silly for no other reason than to be silly.

On top of that, a lot of the games feels me-tooish with stuff from Okami and Shadow of the Colossus. That's just not good with something that should be as high end as a Zelda game. For example, the wolf stuff, while might not be a direct pull from Okami, but the combat in blocked off areas and special mechanics to fully defeat enemies beyond beating them up does. The little imp that helps you is also very similar in character to the mini-god that helps you in Okami. In terms of similarities of Shadow, a lot of the geometric designs of the Twilight/Dark word stuff is very inspired by the architecture and colossus design in Shadow. It's not a rip off, but I feel like it's close.

So yeah. I'll give it some more time (or force myself through it like the sometimes masochist I am), but the further I get in the less I like the game. It's feeling more and more like a missed opportunity. Maybe it's time they hand the series off and closely watch like they did with Metroid. I don't know who should get it, but I think someone out there making games now grew up with Zelda and could give it the love it needs to make something truly special, modern, and relevant.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Quemaqua on Monday, June 22, 2009, 10:42:42 PM: I still say the next Zelda game needs to look exactly like this (http://orioto.deviantart.com/art/Through-the-night-96477716). Seriously, I think that would be about the coolest thing ever.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 04:57:31 AM: Yeah, but sadly it won't. I do love that picture.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 06:23:12 AM: Generally I blew through every Zelda game I could get my hands on. But I was unable to do so with the DS offering (that I can't even remember the name of right now, imagine that) and this one. It could have been the fact that I was absolutely enamored with Wii Sports at the time, but I couldn't really get into a rhythm with TP.

That being said, I'd love to be able to go back and finish it some day. It's unfortunately just not a priority for me. And ultimately I think I'd rather spend my time playing through Wind Waker again.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 08:46:24 AM: The Phantom Hourglass (DS). I could not get past the toxic repeating dungeon.

I went back to Wind Waker myself after finishing TP (GC). I loved that one, sailing and all. I think I still have the saved file for when I finished the game with 3 hearts. In order to do that, you have to leave behind every heart and heart piece when you have the choice. (You are forced to pick up 3 heart pieces to advance the story, one shy of a full heart.) So if you fish one up by mistake, you have to go back to the previous save. I remember I saved before fishing just because of that. The game is a lot more challenging this way, but still not too hard. It's so ridiculously easy with all the hearts.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: scottws on Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 01:02:24 PM: I hated The Wind Waker. The ease was part of it, but I really hated the sailing. I did finish it though.

Twilight Princess is the only modern Zelda game I don't own, excluding handheld titles. I didn't get a Wii until a year after release, and I played a bit of it on my brother's Wii. It seemed a lot like all the other Zelda games since A Link to the Past with a little Okami thrown in, so I didn't bother with it.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:13:06 PM: I was able to force myself through the repeating temple in Phantom Hourglass because the rest of the game was so enjoyable. It was pretty much the same deal with the Wind Waker and the sailing. While I still think the Wind Waker lacked the proper umph of a Zelda game, I now think it was never really meant to have it. As a more lighthearted affair, it was really enjoyable and did manage to feel pretty amazing when you finally managed to find what the oceans were hiding.

So, I just wanted to mention that I've made peace with Twilight Princess and and very much enjoying the game now. Three things made this possible. The first was I learned how to actually lower the volume on the Wiimote speaker. I had no idea it was hidden on the screen that shows you the battery power (what you see when you press the home button). Things sound much more tolerable at lower volumes. Simply playing the sounds from the TV speakers is still preferable, but this makes the problems much less apparent. The second was I just got used to fighting with the Wiimote. Again, not perfect, but doable. Thirdly, and more importantly, the game just got much better. The leadup to the second dungeon was sort of lame and I wasn't all that impressed with the first areas (and a lot of the silly things going on... like annoying monkeys). However, the second Dungeon was great and afterwards has been great since. I was worried the game would become too much of a cycle where you go into an area as a wolf, redo it as a human, then enter a dungeon. Worse yet, it seemed that the cycle wouldn't mix things up as to how each portion worked. Things changed a far bit and were far more interesting at that point and now that much of the world has opened up a full fledged and relevant Zelda game has revealed itself. I'm glad I stuck with it.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: PyroMenace on Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:53:16 PM: Im of a little bit of a different opinion of the GCN Zelda games, or rather I think its just more my perspective as a gamer since I think it has gotten much more soft then what I used to be or maybe its always been this way. Anyway, Wind Waker was a real treat for me, the sailing I absolutely loved and was something I was really surprised about how much I would like as I played it. Really didnt mind the easy pace of it either, and I felt it the same way with Twilight Princess. As with the way of Nintendo and all other franchises associated with it, everything took a turn for something more casual in one way or another. I didn't mind where they took Zelda with TP, it certainly felt cut and paste but I enjoyed the hell out of it anyway. I know Zelda is a beloved series which I also can understand the heavy criticism, but that's why I feel Ive gone soft, I think Zelda's more casual direction was inevitable so I just took it for what it was.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, June 28, 2009, 05:23:44 PM: I am so glad I stuck with the game because I just finished it and it was great. The first 12-15 hours of the game were barely above mediocre, but then things just opened up and it became awesome. It even managed to sneak a few new characters and mythology into the Zelda story that were worth keeping. Hell, even in the end the Wii controls came out alright as things like manual aiming and the using the hookshot became more important (and getting used to the sword controls made even tough fights painless).

If this ends up being the swan song for Zelda like Cobra predicts, it's a fine one. By the end of the game so much of what I thought was tacked together felt much more cohesive and the final bosses produced an even more memorable ending than in Ocarina of Time. So yeah, the bottom line remains is that I'm glad that I finally played through the game. There's a certain feeling of joy and accomplishments that comes with finishing Zelda games that most games lack and Twilight Princess pulled it all together in the end (or rather, about 2/5's of the way through).
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: iPPi on Sunday, June 28, 2009, 06:22:13 PM: I actually booted the game back up this week and finally finished up the Arbiter's Grounds. For me, that was about the 18-19th hour of the game. It does seem to get better, I think I might have a go at it and finish it up.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, June 29, 2009, 09:45:12 AM: Quote from: sirean_syan on Sunday, June 28, 2009, 05:23:44 PM
I am so glad I stuck with the game because I just finished it and it was great. The first 12-15 hours of the game were barely above mediocre, but then things just opened up and it became awesome.

I could have sworn I posted something about that, but now I can't find it. The setup of the game takes a long time, and you are forced to go down a very linear, restrictive path until you learn the whole premise. 12 or more hours later, the game finally drops the other shoe, and you're in the best-realized Ocarina-like Zelda yet.

I'm glad you stuck with it too. It's a shame to miss this one, even if it takes blind faith for a few days.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: iPPi on Friday, July 24, 2009, 12:27:43 AM: I finally finished this game. I think I clocked it in at around 45 hours, so it's quite a lengthy game. Only things I missed were some Poe souls and 10 Piece of Hearts. Overall, it's a good game but it does take way too long to get going. I think it took me over a 2 years to finally finish this game, and I took a 10-11 month hiatus on this game about 18 hours in because it was so boring.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Friday, July 24, 2009, 10:38:59 AM: Quote from: iPPi on Friday, July 24, 2009, 12:27:43 AM
I finally finished this game. I think I clocked it in at around 45 hours, so it's quite a lengthy game. Only things I missed were some Poe souls and 10 Piece of Hearts. Overall, it's a good game but it does take way too long to get going. I think it took me over a 2 years to finally finish this game, and I took a 10-11 month hiatus on this game about 18 hours in because it was so boring.

Yeah it's on my list to finish. I got this game launch day and it's pretty much been a chore to get where I am now (I just now have the ability to change from wolf to human at will). I'll get back to it eventually. I picked up a GC version of TP over the weekend for 12 bones, and I was strongly considering just starting over with that one. I think I'm a bit too far into the Wii game to abandon it though.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Wednesday, December 09, 2009, 11:59:27 AM: I was on the fence whether to bump this again, but I finally decided it was appropriate. I finished another playthrough of TP, after a year and a half since my first. My opinion remains unchanged, except I found it easier this time. I don't mean the obvious remembered puzzle solutions, but rather the combat and other mechanics. For some reason, I breezed through most fights this time, while I had some difficulty before with some bosses. I still think the Goron miniboss in the mines is a royal frustration, though. Overall, best 3D Zelda, by far.

Replaying it motivated me to move on to Wind Waker once more, which in some ways is like TP Junior. It is not hard at all to see the development connection between these games. A bit of casual searching for some background history led me to this translated documentary (http://www.zentendo.com/features.php?articleId=46&page=1) on the whole Zelda series up to WW. The fansubbed translation's been around for a couple of years, but this is the first time I hear of it. It's very worthwhile if you have an hour and a quarter to spare. The 700MB MP4 is the better way to go.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, December 09, 2009, 05:44:39 PM: Nice, I'll check that out.

WW and TP are both games I'd really like to play. Sadly, however, I've decided against getting a Wii or GC for the near future. I'll probably revert to emulation for both in a few years. It runs okay on intensive games like this right now, but there is still quite a bit of work to be done and I wouldn't mind a bit more horsepower to get things going.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Ghandi on Wednesday, December 09, 2009, 08:30:19 PM: You can get a GC for almost nothing. TP costs more than the system.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Wednesday, December 09, 2009, 09:11:22 PM: Thing is I don't want a Gamecube. I'd rather play the 6 GC games (maybe) I want to play on my PC with a much higher resolution...or on Wii.

But yeah, if you want you can get a gamecube for next to nothing. I bid on an ebay auction a while ago on a whim that was a GC, and like 7 games. 4 of which were actually solid games (mario, 2 Zeldas, and Metroid Prime). $50. It ended up going for like $60 or something.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: scottws on Thursday, December 10, 2009, 06:05:00 AM: LoZ:TP is the only non-handheld or alternate platform Zelda I never finished. It just seemed too similar to every other N64 and CCN Zelda game, with some Okami thrown in. It just wasn't fresh at all and I was tired of it. I have no interest in the series now.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Monday, October 03, 2011, 01:59:06 PM: Ancient thread top, FTW.

I started playing this again in the last week. It took a bit to get my bearings, having already invested 30+ hours into the game. Once I got the lay of the land (and figured out that the fortune teller gives you hints on heart pieces you haven't found yet) I found it pretty easy to get back into. I am enjoying the game, despite the Wii version's problems. I have the GC version, but the problems just weren't enough of a bother to start over. So the world is mirrored, whatever.

Still not a fan of waggling to swing a sword though.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Monday, October 03, 2011, 06:13:07 PM: I'm playing this as well, but having a bit of a hard time with it. Partially for the reasons already mentioned (waggle). It almost seems like I enjoy the idea of playing it more than I actually enjoy playing it.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Monday, October 03, 2011, 08:51:17 PM: I'm definitely going to see it through. I'm at a point where it's really holding my attention. If I ever decide to replay it (unlikely), it will be on the Gamecube version though.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Monday, October 03, 2011, 09:11:56 PM: GC version is the way to go. Hopefully Skyward Sword will have the controls properly designed from the ground up for the Wii controllers.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Wednesday, October 05, 2011, 06:42:38 AM: I finished up the Temple of Time last night. The dungeon was very enjoyable. I made a huge mistake and missed the big key the first go round, so when I get up to the boss door i'm like "oh crap". Then I had to backtrack. Boss was pretty easy.

I'm really happy to finally be getting to this game. It was definitely one of the games in my backlog I was most ashamed of not finishing. Hopefully I'll be able to finish up this weekend. I'm not really interested in finding all the poes, since the reward is money that's easily found in Hyrule anyway. And I'm not really sure i care too much about grabbing the big wallet.

Going back to this game has all but cemented my purchasing Skyward Sword when it hits.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Thursday, October 06, 2011, 07:17:57 AM: I finished up the "busy work" with the Rod of Dominion last night. I really dislike these parts. You're near the end of the game, and it just throws something at you to keep you occupied for a few hours more. I hated the map/triforce fiasco in Wind Waker. At least the Rod stuff wasn't THAT bad.

Going to hit up the sky city tonight, try and get that done.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Thursday, October 06, 2011, 05:40:45 PM: I can't do it. I just can't play this game. I think it's partially the Wii controls and partially the fact that I'm playing it on an old 20" crt, but every time I try to play I just can't really get all that into it. In the first dungeon with the monkeys and I got to the end, saw that I still needed two more monkeys to get to the final boss, and just said "fuck it ,I'm done".
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Thursday, October 06, 2011, 08:28:36 PM: The first part of the game is a chore, hands down. It gets better once you gain the ability to switch back and forth to the wolf at will.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Saturday, October 08, 2011, 10:59:07 AM: Finished up the Sky Temple this morning. One thing that Nintendo has said repeatedly about Skyward Sword is that it's going to break up the Zelda formula a little bit. It is starting to become a little stagnant I'm afraid. I am seeing the dungeons as more of an annoyance than fun. I much prefer exploration and combat over solving dungeon puzzles.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 01:52:24 PM: Well, it is done. Finished a few minutes ago. Satisfying Ganon fight. The motion controls got in the way a few times with it, though.

I'll never say never, but I don't see myself ever replaying the game. I put damn near 55 hours into this play through, and there really wasn't a point in the game where I felt like I was playing something amazing. I mean yeah, it was a zelda game, and it is good for all the reasons that come with that fact. But nothing really stood out.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: scottws on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 01:59:32 PM: Quote from: K-man on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 01:52:24 PM
I mean yeah, it was a zelda game, and it is good for all the reasons that come with that fact. But nothing really stood out.

Unfortunately, Nintendo has decided to keep the Zelda formula basically static since OOT. It's like playing a variation of the same game over and over again with different visuals.

It's actually kind of sad. To this day I haven't played TP since my last post in this thread (http://www.overwritten.net/forum/index.php?topic=3885.msg78322#msg78322) and I have no interest in SS. Zelda is like that Adele "Rolling in the Deep" song... badly played out.

At least with Mario they've kept it relatively fresh. Granted all the 3D Mario games share an ancestry with Mario 64, but they've tried quite a few different things there and they all feel pretty unique (except Galaxy compared to Galaxy 2, of course).
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 02:34:04 PM: Apparently Skyward Sword is supposed to significantly shake up the formula. We'll see. I've preordered it, but it was mainly to get the wiimote/game combo. Hopefully i'll be able to see a review or two before Amazon ships it.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: sirean_syan on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 03:44:41 PM: I've been thinking for about a reply to this thread for about a week or so since it got bumped and the best reply I can up with is that I don't really remember the game so well. Looking back on my old comments, I don't think I can stand behind them anymore because the only real memory I have of the game is sort of a bland feeling of it just being there and something that I played. Time hasn't been kind to the game. That's sort of sad for something of what is supposed to be a flagship series.

I have almost no faith in Nintendo to produce something that is really special anymore, especially after they showed their true colors with the last Metroid. They put all their chips on Miyamoto and gimmicks and both have been sucked dry. Unless they learn some hard lessons they're in for a rough ride in with their next generation of games and products (and what they've been doing with the 3DS isn't a good sign).
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: K-man on Sunday, October 09, 2011, 04:00:34 PM: I suppose I need to amend my previous post. The soundtrack is something that did stand out to me. Probably one of the best Zelda soundtracks, in fact.

But yeah Sy, I get what you mean. A lot of it felt like I was going through the motions.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Friday, May 27, 2016, 03:13:07 PM: Bumping this old thread but I've just recently gotten around to playing this. Like Windwaker, I'm playing through emulation with Dolphin, which I highly recommend for both games.

I can't remember if I commented in this thread previously but I actually tried to play this a few years after it came out and just couldn't do it. The combination of waggle controls on the Wii version and blurry graphics on an old CRT (mixed with bloom for god's sake) was just too much for me and I couldn't get past the first dungeon or so.

I've always been a Zelda fan and a few years after my initial attempt I tried to play Skyward Sword and I had a lot more fun with it. The motion controls were done better, the graphics were more tuned to the SD output (I was probably in 480P on a plasma by then but whatever) and the game just seemed better. That is until the sections where you have to run around collecting tears. For whatever reason, it seems like every third Zelda game or so has some gameplay mechanic that kills the game for me and I can't finish that one. Majora's Mask time repeat, while totally a good mechanic, just wasn't my thing. Phantom Hour Glass' repeating dungeon was terrible. The fucking tear collecting in Skyward Sword.

I had always wanted to play Windwaker and so I played it on Dolphin about a year ago. Great game. Windwaker HD had just came out but Dolphin looked just about as nice and had some perks the retail version was missing. Hell, you could also speed up sailing, making up for the lack of the new sail. I can see why it's one of people's favorites and I would love to have another cell shaded Zelda in that style again some time.

Which brings me to Twilight Princess. This time was a lot more enjoyable than last. 1080p on my monitor or big screen, actual controller controls. The game looks great and played fantastic. Yes, it still started out a bit slow, but that was fine, it picked up and got fun.

But then I noticed I started getting bored while playing. It was just so "Blah". I couldn't tell if it was because it just seemed like too much of a sequel to OoT or because maybe it was just out dated, but around the time I hit the desert I was just over it.

I thought about it and Zelda is a great game with a great formula but I had played the following to completion:

-A Link to the Past
-Orcarina of Time
-Majora's Mask (I think I finished this? I don't remember to be honest)
-Minish Cap
-Windwaker
-Spirit Tracks

Some of those multiple times. I have also played every other Zelda game, although as I mentioned earlier - something would turn me off from finishing them.

All of them share a lot of similarities and maybe it was just getting too old of a formula for me.

And then I saw this thread. I would have turned the game off and probably never played it again if I didn't check this. It seems like the game just has a big lul or so. And just like you guys, I got past the typical, traditional dungeons, and the game really picked up.

The Snowpeak Ruins, Temple of Time, and City in the Sky are probably three of the best Zelda dungeons out there. I'm in the Twilight dungeon now and it's also good. And then everything just clicked and it feels like I'm playing OoT again in that it's fun as hell to explore Hyrule. I'm blowing up boulders to look for caves just to see them.

The art style isn't boring, it's just different than what Zelda was evolving to. A lot of people seem to wish that they had made a second Wind Waker instead of this, and although I do think that would have been a cool addition to the lineup, I'm really glad that we got this one as well. It really kind of captures that era of gaming and I'm just having so much fun with it now.

So, thanks I guess?
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, January 29, 2017, 08:49:46 AM: (http://i.imgur.com/MqIW2Jz.jpg)

Hey, gpw. Good to hear from you on that The Witness thread. Been a while.

I'm still getting used to having a computer that can take everything I throw at it without breaking a sweat. I had never tried Dolphin before. (It wouldn't have gotten far on the old hardware.) Other than the up-front stuttering until the shaders cache gets built up on the first run, it's just about perfect for the Zelda games. The Xbox One controller works really well. Just swap B and X when mapping to the GC controller, and everything else is obvious. Are there any special codes that improve the experience? What I really want is to speed up the text in Wind Waker. I had forgotten how annoying the unskippable slow scrolling was.

I haven't tried any Wii games, because I don't know if I can emulate a Wiimote with mouse and keyboard. I've only been running this emulator for a couple of days, and still learning the ropes. I don't really want to buy special hardware to let me hook up a real Wiimote and nunchuk. Thinking about all the functionality in those, my guess is that any mouse/kb emulation is not going to be good enough. It'd still be cool to see Zelda SS or Mario Galaxy running on the PC, though.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, January 29, 2017, 11:00:02 AM: Hey man, hope you're doing well.

Yeah, there were a couple of special codes that I used, although I don't know for the life of me where I found them or what I actually used save for a widescreen hack (hit or miss) and a code to speed up the sailing through a glitch (helpful for long trips but REALLY sped up sailing). I'm sure I can track all the info down again and I'll report back - hopefully they have something for the text.

Regarding other games and control schemes: People have come up with ways to play a lot of the games without hooking up wiimotes or actually emulating them with the mouse (I've never actually done either). I know for sure you can find a control scheme layout out there for the Mario Sunshine games that works perfectly with a 360 controller - I've only played like 45 minutes of the game both ways but I enjoyed the game pad just as much.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: gpw11 on Sunday, January 29, 2017, 05:54:02 PM: Speed up sailing:

GK9E-JWBQ-M0D1U
HK1V-V5U2-835U6
JJQM-JZA8-57DRM

Put it in where ever you put in action replay codes. Press down on the directional pad to enable it but it's kind of wonky: can't steer while boosted AND it takes quite a while to come back to a stop after you turn it off so it takes some getting used to.

Unfortunately couldn't find anything for the text.
Title: Re: Biases and impressions on Zelda: Twilight Princess
Post by: Cobra951 on Sunday, January 29, 2017, 08:25:31 PM: Thanks for that. I'm sure it will come in handy. I may try the emulation speedup button for the text. I vaguely remember a warning about a possible desync when speeding up emulation, but now I can't find it. Can't hurt to try.

Edit: Tried it, and it works well. Like 5 times the speed during game rendering, and like 20 times (!) during the text-and-slideshow game intro. Haha! No program hangs, so this will do.