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Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: scottws on Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 11:23:44 PM
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I just installed Beta 1 (build 7000) of Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on a VMware Server 2 virtual machine on my work laptop.
I've only messed with it about 30 minutes so far, but I already love it.
I don't know what it is. I was never excited about Vista, so I can't explain why I am looking forward to Windows 7 when it is so similar. I use Vista on my desktop, but I just feel it is a massive letdown. All the cool features it was supposed to have were cut, and now it's just a bloated pile of poo. Windows 7 still doesn't have a lot of those features and is overall very similar to Vista, but I don't know... it feels different in a lot of good ways too. I really like the new taskbar, and I'm not even getting the cooler Aero version of it that I've seen demonstrated in videos.
I've read some performance benchmarks (where the benchmark numbers weren't disclosed due to beta NDA/EULA reasons), and Windows 7 seems to be winning in all categories over both XP SP2 and Vista SP1.
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As long as games dont require twice the RAM when using it (like Vista vs XP), then it might actually be worth checking out.
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Well, I remember you were initially impressed with Vista as well, though were let down the more you messed with it. Let's see how W7 fares after a few days of use, though there has been a lot of goodwill towards it on the internet.
So far though, everyone I've asked, can't seem to explain why they like it more. They just do.
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The taskbar is so much better. It's a lot easier to find the window you want when you have tons of stuff open, which I always do.
My initial positive impressions of Vista were just related to Aero. I immediately noticed file transfers to my Samba server were like 1/3 the speed they were under XP and hated that.
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Well after looking at all the positive attention Windows 7 is getting, I might as well put myself down for the upgrade version. I just hope it works with Windows XP.
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I think Microsoft will be attempting to really make sure this one doesn't fuck up. After the disaster of Vista, I doubt they want to take any chances, especially with Apple constantly gaining steam.
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Yeah, but Steve Jobs is dying so they might actually have to start producing products again rather than just marketing whatever their god gives them.
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Interesting, I just learned that Steve Jobs was CEO of Pixar until 2006. I had no idea.
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Steve Jobs is dying?
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Cancer of some sort. And yeah, Steve Jobs is probably the diplomatic and financial point man behind Pixar's success (Lasseter being the creative point man).
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You mean the iPhone doesn't cure cancer? I think I may have been misled.
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Cancer of some sort. And yeah, Steve Jobs is probably the diplomatic and financial point man behind Pixar's success (Lasseter being the creative point man).
Well it hasn't been officially confirmed yet, has it? I think they are putting it down to a mystery illness for now.
He did beat cancer about 5 years ago though, I think.
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Well it hasn't been officially confirmed yet, has it? I think they are putting it down to a mystery illness for now.
He did beat cancer about 5 years ago though, I think.
Does anyone really beat cancer? It's like getting every last atom of a coke spill off your shirt. And coke doesn't self-replicate. I think that cancer may have come back, though obviously it could be something else entirely.
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well there have been a couple of photos of medical reports for a positive HIV infection, but wikileaks is currently calling "probably fake" on them.
not so sure...
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Sorta back on topic:
I just built a new computer and I thought I'd give Vista a go... I think I'm going to go back to XP and just deal with the authorization phone call to authorize the thing. While I haven't done tons with the system, I can't say I feel like the upgrade has done any good. I lost my use of Acrobat (I only have an older version), the only game I've tried crashes constantly (Fallout 3... which might partially be game's fault, but it runs well and crashes at the same places constantly*), and stuff just doesn't feel right. I might have also shot myself in the foot by going with the 64 bit version, but I wanted to try out having 6 gigs of RAM. Still, Vista itself hasn't pleased me with constant nagging for authorization to open nearly any program (which I turned off), the lack of a "safely remove hardware" feature which I use often for my external hard drive, and it's desire to scan said external hard drive every time I turn it on because of potential problems (which it probably thinks are there because I can't remove it properly). So, lesson learned, or maybe experiment failed. At least I have a full version now so I can upgrade to Windows 7 for cheaper.
*I just really hope this isn't a sign of hardware problems. I really haven't pushed my computer much yet, but it's not like Fallout would be the game to really test stability on. Everything else has been just fine and temperatures have been in a good range, so I'm leaning towards Windows/Fallout problems.
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vista has a "safely remove hardware" thing in the system tray. if it ain't there, something's borked.
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Yea I have that thing in the system tray as well, and all my games seem to run as well as they do on XP.
In other news, wow, Sirean got a new comp.
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Sirean, the things you describe don't really seem Vista-related to me. I have the Safely Remove Hardware icon and use it constantly. It looks like a plug now. Fallout 3 crashes on me tons as well, but at random and I'm pretty sure it's heat-related since it's usually only after I've been playing awhile. My case's design isn't exactly conducive to long gaming periods because it doesn't really have a good way to manage the heat in the upper rear portion of my case, where the videocard is.
Yeah, the Acrobat thing sucks but those sorts of issues are expected with really old versions of software on an operating system that changed quite a bit from the previous version.
I don't think you shot yourself in the foot going 64-bit. I've honestly never had any problems that would not have existed in the 32- bit version. Pug tells me my poor Crysis performance was due to it running on a 64-bit OS, but I've never seen it run any other way so I don't have anything I can personally compare it too. Honestly people shouldn't shy away from 64-bit because you're pretty much going to have to go down this route in the next couple of years. Plus, the one thing I like about Vista is that if you have extra RAM, its Superfetch technology caches closed, but frequently used programs in physical RAM so they open a lot faster.
I'm starting to get jealous of all the people that are having 6 and 8 GB of RAM now. When I built my PC, I built it with 2 GB at a time people were getting 1 GB, then a few months later I went to 4 GB. It seemed insane at the time but now I feel like I'm falling behind the curve. I guess it's not a big deal. Vista tells me that it's using about 2.5 GB with 1.5 GB being used for Superfetch caching so it's not like I'm borderline on some performance limit.
I still wish Windows XP x64 was better supported. If it had that and Superfetch, I definitely would have no reason to use Vista.
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Well, that was fun. In my haste to downgrade to XP, I forgot about the whole issue with hard drives over 130gb and somehow ended up unformating my main drive in a way that even Vista wouldn't see it during installations. After some hours, I've managed to reformat it in XP under SP2 and just now got the computer to boot from it again. My next step: I just learned how to make a slipstream installation CD for XP with SP3 installed, so I'm going to start over again and hopefully be able to install from scratch on the bigger drive. I'm also considering partitioning it so that I can try out a duel boot to slowly work my way to Vista again.
At the very least, I want to see how this system feels under XP. Still, there's not a whole lot of reason to go to Vista outside of the RAM increase, but I should still be doing good with 3gigs (XP won't recognize beyond 3gig because I have a DDR3 triple channel setup going). We'll see.
Oh yeah, I think I did figure out the remove hardware problem as well. I hadn't turned on Plug and Play in my bios and it was off by default. Go fig.
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I sense a lot of excitement.
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Yeah slipstreaming is awesome. I maintain an XP disc that has all service packs and Windows updates, and has IE7 preinstalled. I also have one for Vista but that just has SP1, not any subsequent updates.
The 3 GB RAM under XP thing has nothing to do with your RAM setup. It has to do with the 32-bit limit and how Windows handles memory addressing. My current system showed up as 3 GB under XP and I had 4 GB (two sets of 2 GB operating in dual channel, DDR2).
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Oh yeah. I forgot the RAM would only count to 3gigs, not 4. Either way, that was a large part of the reason I went with Vista 64.
We'll see how things go. I stepped out of the house for a couple hours and am about to install the slipstreamed XP. Now it recognizes my main hard drive at the proper size in the installation screen, so that's a good sign.
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So, I got everything working on XP last night and things are going great. Fallout 3 ran perfectly on Ultra settings for several hours and I think I'm good. To conserve some power and space, I took out the extra RAM chips which I'll hold onto until Windows 7 or I get brave enough to try Vista again.
I have run into a strange problem though. If I'm using a program that sends a fairly constant stream of data through my router like Windows Live!, my router will just stop working after a time and require a restart. This is a problem I had with my old computer and I eventually fixed it by installing a somewhat decent Intel network card. Currently I'm just using the on-board stuff in my new system, so I'm assuming it's a similar problem and will fix it by recycling the network card. Has anyone else ever had a similar problem? I'm pretty sure the "new" card will solve things for me, but I'm just curious if anyone knows why it could happen.
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Well if the router requires a restart, I would say the problem is on the router end. Maybe upgrade the firmware if you can?
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So, I got everything working on XP last night and things are going great. Fallout 3 ran perfectly on Ultra settings for several hours and I think I'm good. To conserve some power and space, I took out the extra RAM chips which I'll hold onto until Windows 7 or I get brave enough to try Vista again.
I have run into a strange problem though. If I'm using a program that sends a fairly constant stream of data through my router like Windows Live!, my router will just stop working after a time and require a restart. This is a problem I had with my old computer and I eventually fixed it by installing a somewhat decent Intel network card. Currently I'm just using the on-board stuff in my new system, so I'm assuming it's a similar problem and will fix it by recycling the network card. Has anyone else ever had a similar problem? I'm pretty sure the "new" card will solve things for me, but I'm just curious if anyone knows why it could happen.
One of those video streaming sights (quick silver screen?) used to kill my router (like it would actually crap out and all computers would lose it's signal). I never could figure out why, considering the other ones didn't. i just assumed it was an act of god and altered by behaviour accordingly. I'm pretty sure i ended up switching my card for unrelated reasons while this was going on and i don't think it did anything.
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I'm not sure about router killing, but I had an issue for a long time when I would view someone's photo album on Facebook. It would load the first eight or so pictures, and then would time out on all the rest.
I finally complained about it somewhere and someone suggested changing my DNS setting from my ISP's DNS server to the OpenDNS servers (208.67.220.220 and 208.67.222.222). I did that and it completely solved the issue. I guess my ISP's DNS server thought it was being flooded with a DoS attack or something and started blocking traffic.
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So I popped a new hdd in my desktop PC and loaded up Windows 7 Ultimate RC. I've been using it a few days now. I love it completely. The new Dock-inspired Taskbar completely rocks and overall I've found Windows 7 to be much faster than Windows Vista was. This last statement is hard to quantify in the sense that OS installations seem to get slower over time and my Vista installation was two years old, I believe.
Boot-up time is definitely faster, and things just seem much snappier overall. Overall the interface (except for the new Taskbar) is very Vista-like so there isn't much to talk about there.
One thing I don't like is the Computer link now opens this weird window with tons of whitespace. It doesn't show your hard drive partitions, removable drives, and network drives. Instead it shows links to the personal folders you are most likely to use (My Documents, My Music, My Pictures, Downloads) and this new feature called Libraries, which is basically a type of smart-search folder that displays contents from both the Public and private locations. Basically if you open the Pictures library, you see pictures from My Pictures and Public Pictures. Over on the left it has some links to common things like the old My Computer. But it seems very sparse overall. You can still go straight to My Computer by pressing Windows key + E.
I've also had quite a few times where IE or Windows Explorer would hang explorer.exe. Basically if I got too click happy and tried to close dialog boxes by pressing the X or before doing something else, the window would hang. This has happened quite a bit so I hope it is something that gets fixed in the final release.
Edit: Clarification in the sentence about the taskbar.
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My favourite feature is easily Windows+Rightarrow/left arrow. It makes multitasking so much easier on a laptop. Recently I've had this strange thing happen where if I plug in a USB key or external hard drive it'll basically freeze up the computer for 10 seconds. It didn't happen at first though so it's probably something I've installed but I have no idea what.
Definitely prefer this to Vista. The taskbar took me about a week to get used to though. For the first few days I just hated it.
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I didn't know about the Windows key + right or left arrow. I'll have to see what that is about. How did you discover it?
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I picked it up from some time before the RC came out. Win+R is the same as sliding a minimized window to the right of the screen and Win+L as sliding to the left. It takes the window and makes it 50% of the screen. Having two Word or Excel windows perfectly side by side at the press of a button is really convenient.
WMP is also really good for video. It's been able to play almost every single file I've thrown at it. I downloaded VLC out of habit and have only used it twice. Once for a file with subtitles and the other time for an flv. The only bad thing about it is that space isn't pause.
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Yeah I found out what Win+R/L do last night. Win+up is maximize and Win+down is minimize.
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October 22nd, 2009 is the official release date for Win 7 (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/Jun09/06-02SteveGuggenheimer.mspx)
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Wow. That's a lot earlier than I thought it would be.
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They're not going to do like 7 versions again are they?
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Probably.
Also, I hope it's really a lot better than Vista. Because after giving Vista a chance on my laptop, I can say with certainty that I absolutely fucking hate it.
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I kind of like it on my laptop, but the wireless networking lacks something. That might just be me not being used to it though. Can anyone suggest an app to find and connect to networks?
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I kind of like it on my laptop, but the wireless networking lacks something. That might just be me not being used to it though. Can anyone suggest an app to find and connect to networks?
I came across NetStumbler (http://www.netstumbler.com/downloads/) when I was looking for a better option.
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Also, I hope it's really a lot better than Vista. Because after giving Vista a chance on my laptop, I can say with certainty that I absolutely fucking hate it.
I find Windows 7 to boot and run faster than Vista. Firefox opens almost instantly, where under Vista it was pretty slow to open. I really like the new taskbar. I find it to be much easier to work with a bunch of open windows than ever before.
That said, other than the taskbar and the performance, 7 is very much like Vista. Oh and 7 has a much more flexible firewall than XP or Vista.
I have had trouble with some videos under 7. Like HD videos on YouTube and videos on Netflix have this weird stutter to them many times. Some others have complained of this too and it has been suggested that this is due to video driver immaturity. I hope so, because it kind of sucks since this was not a problem area for me under Vista.
I kind of like it on my laptop, but the wireless networking lacks something. That might just be me not being used to it though. Can anyone suggest an app to find and connect to networks?
Wireless Zero Configuration is worlds better in Vista than it was in XP. What do you mean that it lacks something? Generally it shows available wireless, you highlight and push Connnect, it asks you for the WEP key/passphrase and viola you are connected.
It gets a little more convoluted if you have to do a custom setup for WPA2-Enterprise.
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I just had to reinstall Windows Vista after a period of a year, and despite installing all my apps etc., startup is almost instant compared to before.
Despite running all sorts of maintainence progs., startup was still taking much longer. Sometimes fresh installs make a load of a difference
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I find Windows 7 to boot and run faster than Vista. Firefox opens almost instantly, where under Vista it was pretty slow to open. I really like the new taskbar. I find it to be much easier to work with a bunch of open windows than ever before.
That said, other than the taskbar and the performance, 7 is very much like Vista. Oh and 7 has a much more flexible firewall than XP or Vista.
I have had trouble with some videos under 7. Like HD videos on YouTube and videos on Netflix have this weird stutter to them many times. Some others have complained of this too and it has been suggested that this is due to video driver immaturity. I hope so, because it kind of sucks since this was not a problem area for me under Vista.
Wireless Zero Configuration is worlds better in Vista than it was in XP. What do you mean that it lacks something? Generally it shows available wireless, you highlight and push Connnect, it asks you for the WEP key/passphrase and viola you are connected.
It gets a little more convoluted if you have to do a custom setup for WPA2-Enterprise.
It's just how the network list is organized and how it's more of a bitch than in XP to do things like change the order of preferred networks. Granted, a lot of that is just a lack of familiarity, but it can kind of be a bitch. Also, it seems to remember networks I've been on and often shows them in the list even though I'm fucking miles away...but that could be a laptop issue.
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So, I need to do a backup and reformat sometime in the near future and figured I might as well get onboard with Windows 7 when it comes out. What's the opinion months later? Still a good upgrade over XP?
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Hola mis amigos!
I've just set up Win7 and so far so good. The first thing that impresed was how easily it set itself up. Sound, video, network, everything was working right off the bat. It ran basic drivers for video and audio until I installed the specific Realtek HD and Nvidia drivers myself.
It's definitely ahead of Vista in every way and my overall system performance is better. It seems like the next logical step from XP.
Will follow up with game performance once I've set up some games.
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Ok, ever since I set up Win7 x64 I've been exploring the world of 64bit development. One thing that kind bugs me is that some great applications do not have 64bit versions, for example Firefox.
The good news is the community has taken up the challenge and built a 64bit version of Firefox (currently codenamed Shiretoko (http://wiki.mozilla-x86-64.com/Download:Firefox), formerly known as Minefield). So far it looks like a good effort, its installation is seamless.
www.start64.com has been my main hub for info and updates on 64bit apps.
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What happens if you run the normal 32-bit Firefox? Much slower? Incompatible?
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What happens if you run the normal 32-bit Firefox? Much slower? Incompatible?
No, it seems to run fine although I did notice it hitch a lot more. Loading times seemed to be a little longer, especially when launching it.
Overall Microsoft seem to have done a great job with 32bit applications running in a 64bit environment. A lot of the base Windows applications are still 32bit anyway i.e. Windows Media Player.
The only real advantage, as I understand it, is having an application run in its native environment will (theoretically) yield greater performance.
The team developing the unofficial x64 Firefox binary have posted these performance results (http://wiki.mozilla-x86-64.com/Performance).
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So, if I'm looking at getting a new O/S would there really be any reason to stick to 32-bit these days? I mean, most modern hardware must have 64 bit support by now, right?
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Yea it looks like 64-bit will be the 80% majority with Win7.
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That's what I was asking myself at the beginning of the installation. After some reading on the topic I figured what the heck, let's give it a go. As long as it can run my apps and my games no problem.
One thing I did notice is on the Windows Experience Index my processor is now scoring a 6.2, in contrast with Vista 32bit where it scored 5.5. My "Gaming Graphics" score has also gone up to 6.7, as opposed to 5.9 as it was on Vista.
My Total Index score is still 5.3 though, since that's the score my primary hard disk got for data transfer rate. Is that low for a SATA drive?
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So, how much RAM should I have if I want to game on Windows 7 64-bit? I'm currently running 2GB (previously four until one of the sticks in my other dual channel kit crapped out on me). I could boost it to six by adding the remaining working stick (if you can do that in DC mode...have two sticks running in DC, one in one of the other slots), or I COULD buy more if I needed to, but I'd rather avoid it. To be fair I'm also running a 9600GT and have no desire to upgrade my card just yet (I think I'd need a new PSU as well), so I'm not talking about power gaming...I just want things to run as smooth as they would on XP both in game and just in the OS.
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I've been running on 2GB RAM for a while now. Honestly, my only drive to get more RAM is out of desire rather than a genuine need for it.
My specs are:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz
2GB DDR2 800MHz RAM
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB
Asus P5W DH Deluxe Motherboard
It's a 2½ year old system but it still seems to run practically anything I put on it spanning medium to high settings. Just to give you an idea, Crysis running optimally (40+ fps) I had to go with medium settings.
For me, the benchmark is 30 fps; anything below that is where it starts to get noticeable.
In terms of gaming, I have noticed some performance improvement in Windows 7 when compared to Vista. It's a very slight improvement though.
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Thanks, it's just about the same system then. Only difference being MOBO and GPU. To be honest I'll probably upgrade to 4GB (again) anyways or in the near future. So, now for a bit of a more complicated question, would I get better performance out of 6 GB RAM in single channel or 4 GB in dual channel?
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Where the heck is Scott?!
I could just look it up online but seeking Scott's wealth of knowledge is just so much more exciting.. and easier.
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I looked it up and kind of got some conflicting answers. Not a big deal I guess.
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I took the plunge and installed a "trial version" untill I can get one with an educational discount through school. So far I'm impressed although I JUST put it on so I haven't messed around much. My total Experience score or whatever is 5.5, the RAM being the low point (not sure if size or speed is the issue). So, anything anyone can reccomend to add on? I'm running Ultimate x64.
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Awesome!
I recommend using CCleaner (http://www.ccleaner.com/) for cleaning up the registry and managing start-up items. It's a decent little free tweak utility. I'm still waiting for TuneUp Utilities 2010 which will support Windows 7.
For virtual drives Daemon Tools seems to have issues with Win7 (and x64 in general). A great alternative (with a bundle of additional features) is Gizmo Drive (http://arainia.com/software/gizmo/).
For disc burning in general I use iTunes/Winamp for audio/mp3 CDs and ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/) for everything else. ImgBurn is, so far, the best minimalistic disc image utility I've come across, it's not bloatware like Nero and Roxio.
I'll list any more useful apps I come across.
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Awesome, thanks.
Only issue I've hit so far is a problem setting up a network printer. It won't take at all. I can see it in my network and I can install it, the thing just won't connect. This is isolated to my Win 7 machine. I've even gone as far as trying to trick it into thinking it's a local printer...but that's not working out either. It seems to be a common issue and a combination of poor driver support (although I am using Win7 x86 drivers) and some bug in the OS.
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I was having some trouble with the networking (printer and other computers in my home) until I disabled "password prootected sharing" from the "Advanced sharing settings" in the "Network and Sharing Center."
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Hmmmm...you know, you'd think a message box would tip you off to something like that. I'll try it later, but I don't think that's my problem since everything I'm trying to send from this computer is going out. The PC that has the printer attached is running XP and my vista laptop also has no problem at all connecting to it or printing. I'm also unable to install the print driver I use to upload projects and huge documents directly to an office print shop here, but that's really more of a thing with their software and will probably be fixed soon.
I guess this is the price of early adopting. The good news is that Gamecube emulation is pretty much at fullspeed. The bad news is I forgot to realize that all my games installed on my separate hard drive are going to have to be reinstalled to get the reg entries and such going....oh well. I'm totally happy either way.
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Network problems are kind of a bitch in Windows. I think in Win7 it's just a matter of getting used to it and a matter of time till they resolve any of the bugs.
I did the same thing. I think I forgot to properly uninstall Mass Effect which means it didn't revoke a token or something. Mosty of my games ran normally anyway by just launching the exe.
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Mosty of my games ran normally anyway by just launching the exe.
Really? That's good news. I guess I'd still rather do a reinstall.
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Just testing out the awesome new "snipping" tool
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6582/twilightq.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/twilightq.jpg/)
Works really well and I could see it being pretty useful. I was also testing out Gamecube emulation at the same time. Runs great in 64bit. That's Twilight Princess running full speed. I think I might actually try to play through the entire game on my PC.
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Snipping tool was actually new to vista
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Really? I just looked on my laptop and can't find it. What's it under?
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Also, can't log into steam. I'm assuming this is a Valve problem though.
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Really? I just looked on my laptop and can't find it. What's it under?
you need to enable it in optional components - something to do with tablet pc's.
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Also, can't log into steam. I'm assuming this is a Valve problem though.
Double-check your Windows Firewall settings and make sure it has a Steam exception. If it's there then it's likely a Valve issue.
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Really? I just looked on my laptop and can't find it. What's it under?
I don't remember, I've been using 7 for a while now. I think it was under accessories, it should come up with start search.
Just did a google search for vista snipping tool and it's definitely on there.
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Okay, the Steam issue stems from how it can't run in DMZ mode (what the fuck?), which I guess I went into a while ago so something else could clear my router's firewall and I forgot to change in back. As for the snipping tool on Vista, awesome....totally going to enable it on my laptop.
I also upgraded my RAM and am absolutely amazed at how fast SOME programs launch.
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Microsoft has released the final version of Windows XP Mode (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx) for Windows 7.
Windows XP Mode is a virtual Windows XP environment which can only be run under Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate or Enterprise editions, allowing older applications designed for XP to be used in Windows 7 without any compatibility issues.
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If that virtualization works as it should, I want it. A virtual machine is the perfect way to test out something you're not sure is malicious or otherwise harmful to the system.
I found this CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/10/22/windows.seven/index.html) informative. I didn't know about the open consulting with PC makers.
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Good story, Cobra. I'm really happy with the change Microsoft has made in its practice, which are evident in the way Win 7 operates. It really feels like they've finally opened their ears. As the article says, if it weren't for the failure of Vista Microsoft would have likely stuck to their old habit: "just develop windows in secret and then throw it over the wall."
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Interesting. I wonder if i could interface with my shared printer in XP mode.
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Well, I've stumbled on my first "problem" with 64bit browsers. It's in quotes because it's not a serious issue, easily worked around by reverting to 32bit. The issue is of course that while the browser itself is a 64bit application the add-ons/plug-ins may not necessarily be so; the primary example being Flash. 64bit browsers cannot play any Flash content, quite likely any similar plug-ins and web implemetations including ActiveX for IE.
It's actually amazing it took me this long to notice. I've been using the regular 32bit Firefox way more often.
Adobe seem to have had some issues with 64bit and the Creative Suites in the past. As of the Creative Suite 4 package only Photoshop CS4 has a 64bit edition. According to Adobe, however, the future will entail full 64bit counterparts to all of their applications.
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Yeah, I've just been using Firefox 32-bit. Actually, I've pretty much been using 32-bit versions of everything for the most part.