Author Topic: Yes another Vista thread. I apologize in advance. (Read 14165 times)

Xessive · « **Reply #40 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 04:38:37 AM »

Hehe yeah I'm the Anti-Mac

I respect Macs as tools, but they're not ideal for me simply because of how inflexible they are compared to my PC.

Well, of my two systems only one has a genuine Windows XP install, the second I've upgraded and changed too much that it won't install, so I resorted to Corp edition. Fortunately I may be able to get a legit volume key from one of the companies I worked for while I was in Canada, but it's still a really bitchy move from Microsoft. Protecting your OS is fine, but by basing it on my hardware profile is retarded. The way Is ee it, I paid for the OS, I should be able to install it on my system regardless of how many times I upgrade or alter it (unless it becomes a compatibility issue).

scottws · « **Reply #41 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 05:38:41 AM »

Quote from: Xessive on Monday, January 29, 2007, 04:38:37 AM

The way Is ee it, I paid for the OS, I should be able to install it on my system regardless of how many times I upgrade or alter it (unless it becomes a compatibility issue).

Microsoft will argue that you paid for an operating system license, and that the license says you can only install it one computer ever and even upgrades to the computer may violate the license, requiring you to purchase a new one.

That's the reality of the software industry. I think Vista's license is okay for a business where you are not generally going to be doing videocard upgrades and stuff like that, but it's pretty incompatible with the enthusast home user.

idolminds · « **Reply #42 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 12:51:07 PM »

Its almost like MS wants people to pirate it or use something else.

Pugnate · « **Reply #43 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 02:52:42 PM »

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page4.html#3d_games

Xessive · « **Reply #44 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 03:10:04 PM »

Quote from: idolminds on Monday, January 29, 2007, 12:51:07 PM

Its almost like MS wants people to pirate it or use something else.

Seriously man! This is why I respect Linux.

The licence thing is alright, but the licence should be to me not to my hardware. Imagine having to get a new licence every time you tuned your car or got a kit for it, or if you got a new car. Imagine having an individual licence for each car you owned (if you had more than one), and you'd have to pay a fine or go to jail if you were caught driving one car with another car's licence!

Those benchmarks make sense. I don't think the driver support for Vista is good enough yet. I'd give it a while before we start seeing some performance improvement.

iPPi · « **Reply #45 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 03:25:11 PM »

Those benchmarks are somewhat interesting, but not overly surprising. Like Xessive said, driver support is very limited right now for Vista, and I know that there are several applications that have problems working in Vista. Have some patience and everything will be alright.

Thankfully, I'm getting Vista business for my laptop, which I do not intend on using for gaming very often and is primarily for productivity work, so it looks like I won't have too many problems with going to Vista as soon as it is delivered to me for my laptop. I'll definitely wait a bit before I go to Vista on my desktop though. I don't want to have too many problems with software and drivers at the moment.

Pugnate · « **Reply #46 on:** Monday, January 29, 2007, 03:46:18 PM »

Quote from: Xessive on Monday, January 29, 2007, 03:10:04 PM

Seriously man! This is why I respect Linux.

The licence thing is alright, but the licence should be to me not to my hardware. Imagine having to get a new licence every time you tuned your car or got a kit for it, or if you got a new car. Imagine having an individual licence for each car you owned (if you had more than one), and you'd have to pay a fine or go to jail if you were caught driving one car with another car's licence!

Those benchmarks make sense. I don't think the driver support for Vista is good enough yet. I'd give it a while before we start seeing some performance improvement.

Yes I am definitely holding on my Vista purchase for now. But while I understand what you say, the issue is differentiation. What is the difference between a new system and an upgrade? Also if they allowed you to install your copy of Windows on your new system with a new mobo and stuff then what's stopping you from installing that very copy on a 100 other systems?

By you, I am don't mean 'you'. I am just thinking out loud.

Also I think the reason both of us had limited XP installs was because we both bought the OEM from Mobile Comp.

Xessive · « **Reply #47 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 04:43:45 AM »

Haha Oh man, we got scrooged with Mobile Computers! I am so glad that shop closed down! It was too abd they closed down right after they screwed me over with a processor.. I had paid for an AthlonXP 2500+ (1.83 GHz) but I later discovered it was an AthlonXP 1700+ (1.46 GHz). I was pretty pissed off, but there was nothing I could do, since the shop closed down literally the following day.

That's all long gone now. I hope that when the time comes it won't be a fuss to just get Vista and have it for my personal systems.

Jedi · « **Reply #48 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 01:45:57 PM »

An interesting tidbit about Vista that I didn't know about until recently - http://pc.ign.com/articles/759/759538p1.html

Cobra951 · « **Reply #49 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 02:34:46 PM »

Fucked up audio, until it's sorted out by new hardware, drivers and software. That's like the last straw, isn't it? Everything in this thread tells me to stay far away, for months if not years to come. Seriously. Look at the whole picture. What we have here is a misbehaved, high-maintenance infant. He needs to grow up before he's worth any money.

But if you still feel like babysitting, Microcenter has prices much lower than what I've been reading about here, on OEM versions. (I assume and hope the meaning of "OEM" is still the same it always has been.)

Pugnate · « **Reply #50 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 02:39:09 PM »

That is so freakin' arrogant of MS. It is obvious that so many people will left feeling extremely upset over having a $200 audio card not performing, yet MS have the audacity to not care. It seems their attitude is that their OS is worth it, so that's that.

PyroMenace · « **Reply #51 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 03:08:38 PM »

Yea, I have an audigy card so my audio is fucked in Vista, openAL or not.

Pugnate · « **Reply #52 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 03:34:00 PM »

Unfortunately I am in the same boat as you. That is such b.s. though. Not only do we spring for a new OS, but some hardware becomes obsolete as well? That's just not on.

Jedi · « **Reply #53 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 04:55:07 PM »

Quote from: Pugnate on Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 02:39:09 PM

That is so freakin' arrogant of MS. It is obvious that so many people will left feeling extremely upset over having a $200 audio card not performing, yet MS have the audacity to not care. It seems their attitude is that their OS is worth it, so that's that.

yeah it's not a great move but I wouldn't go as far to call it arrogant, but the article does have a quote regarding hopw MS gets blamed left and right for the OS crashing when its actualy the drives or some other thing causing it - this is just them protecting the OS which is a good thing.
But this provides little comfort as I'm in the same boat with my audigy card too

I remeber when XP came out you had to buy a new copy of Anti virus and such becuase they made changes to the OS that none on the market at the time (prior to XP's release) would worked - hmmm I think the same could be soad for this release to I'm not sure.

ScaryTooth · « **Reply #54 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 05:34:16 PM »

I went to CompUSA tonight to get a can of compressed air, and I messed around with Vista while I was there. I have to say that it's really really nice. The layout of everything is where you would expect it to be. The interface is extremely slick, and functional. Loved the 3D scrolling. It seemed just gimmicky at first, but I see how it can be really useful. Same thing with the thumbnail preview of minimized window. And gadgets are really neat. I especially liked the clock, notes, weather, and the news headlines. I make notes to myself all the time. I have a post-it pad here with me at all times, to remind me of certain thing. To pay bills, or make calls. And I stick them all over the monitor, but to have this little thing on the gadget bar was really cool. I'd probably use it all the time over the post-it pad. Headlines were updated in real-time, as was weather which was really nice. Another thing that seemed rather gimmicky to me but ended up being pretty nice.

It seemed really stable, and quick. I was trying to make it do something funky by opening a a bunch of shit, and running searches and all that crap at the same time, but nothing seem to really do anything to it.

I have to say, if it wasn't for the EAX thing, I would totally buy a copy right away. It was really really neat.

Xessive · « **Reply #55 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 06:17:07 PM »

Man, Vista may be appealing, but this is the most attractive desktop OS to me right now:

SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10

Click on View Demo and check out some of the features.

scottws · « **Reply #56 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 06:37:45 PM »

I just got back from Best Buy. They had a 2GB RAM system with a Intel Core Duo 2 E6400 processor, with an onboard nVidia 7xxx something. The Vista media center was crawling. Even my friend's brother, who works for Best Buy and likes Microsoft, was complaining about how slow and choppy it was. In fact, he went as far as to say "Vista sucks."

I see a lot of people in this thread saying it's bullshit that Vista almost renders older sound cards incompatible. But if you read closely, it's not even necessarily the sound cards themselves. It sounds like even if you have a Vista-compatible card, older games will still call up DirectSound.

As far as Linux, I'm definitely much of a Debian-based distro fan. I hate Red Hat, and SuSE is based on Red Hat. I tried SuSE 10 (not Enterprise) and I found many of it's features extremely slow. Looked nice though.

Jedi · « **Reply #57 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 11:39:21 PM »

hey Scott perhaps Best Buy have a pre release copy because we used those and they were horrible and slow. But we've got a trial retail copy and it hums along on 512, 2.4P4 and a built GPU this is the same machine that the pre release betas crawled on. Whatever Best has isn't a good example at all of what Vista can do.

But as for the sound card issue thing I posted earlier I had a thought about that - a lot of people must have known about this and yet for all the reading I did leading up to today I heard nothing about it. For example I'm really surprised a site like Windows Supersite never mentioned it and yet that's the one place you know would have discovered such a thing. So What the hell did MS keep this change to themselves and implement it at the very last second?

ScaryTooth · « **Reply #58 on:** Tuesday, January 30, 2007, 11:46:27 PM »

So, I've been reading. Creative have made a wrapper for openAL. But it currently only supports the X-fi line of sound cards they have. So if you have a X-Fi card, and vista, you can still run games with 3D sound. I guess they plan on implementing it on the older Audigy and Live cards and such in the future. But for now, us Audigy users are shit out of luck. Hell, I'm still using the first Sound Blast Audigy Platinum. Think I've had it for about 6 years now. I think they are only going to offer support for Audigy 2 and up.../sadface.

May have to upgrade my sound card here one day.

idolminds · « **Reply #59 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 12:10:15 AM »

Its rather shitty if Creative has to fix this and not MS. I mean DirectSound was their deal, afterall.

And for MS pimping this OS out to gamers and making press releases saying Vista will revitalize PC gaming...messing up the sound from all your old games is a pretty big fuck up.

Pugnate · « **Reply #60 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 01:54:29 AM »

hahaha there is a loophole:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Jedi · « **Reply #61 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 02:08:55 AM »

Interesting.... but that sounds far to easy and like the guy says why would MS leave that sort of thing in retail? But it would be interesting to try though

Well MS don't write drivers but I'm more pissed that only X-Fi owners get a fix, what about everyone else dam it!

Pugnate · « **Reply #62 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 02:35:51 AM »

And we know Creative doesn't really excel at driver releases.

Well this is interesting. Just read G-Spot's article on Vista, and it looks like the OS holds its own against XP.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6164940/p-3.html

With at least 1GB present, Vista seems to do better in WoW and Burning Crusade than XP. In Oblivion the performance is the exact same, as long as RAM is sufficient.

In Company of Heroes, XP holds a bit of an advantage, but the new COH patch should sort it out. Then again Vista is still earning at least 70FPS in most setups so it doesn't matter.

NWN2 seems to have some issues with Vista, but that's not entirely surprising heh.

Overall if you have 2GB of RAM, then you should in some cases get better performance than XP, though in most it is roughly equal or a bit worse. I am sure things will be worked out with patches, but this is an excellent start.

Coupled with the Upgrade Install work around, I am interested again.

scottws · « **Reply #63 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 08:41:57 AM »

I'm still not. It doesn't really add anything that I feel a great desire to have.

Jedi · « **Reply #64 on:** Wednesday, January 31, 2007, 02:45:39 PM »

As far as i'm concerned the OS comes with a PC, I will not fork out money just for the OS. That's how I ended up with XP it simply came witht he new rig... it'll be the same way with Vista.

Pugnate · « **Reply #65 on:** Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 02:29:48 PM »

Gamespot covers Vista pretty nicely:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6165439/index.html?tag=topslot;title;2&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

Jedi · « **Reply #66 on:** Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 02:57:33 PM »

Seems like this is for real then - http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp

I have to give this a try at some stage, but I wonder if MS will lock this down but I don't know how they'd do it though.

Pugnate · « **Reply #67 on:** Wednesday, February 07, 2007, 10:44:54 PM »

Oh yea that walk around is real. So far a whole bunch of sites are reporting it.

Also check this out:

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2174211/microsoft-won-patch-vista

Quote

Tom Sanders in California, vnunet.com 06 Feb 2007
ADVERTISEMENT
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Microsoft will not close a loophole that offers consumers a cheaper way to upgrade to Windows Vista.

As vnunet.com reported last week, users can install the upgrade version of the new operating system as a fresh installation, even if they do not currently own a licensed copy of Windows XP.

The procedure is time consuming, but allows users to save about 35 per cent of the purchase price for the regular Windows Vista.

"People without a licensed copy of XP that use this workaround are violating the terms of use agreed to when they purchased the upgrade version of Windows Vista," a Microsoft spokesman told vnunet.com.

"As such, we believe only a very small percentage of people will take the time to implement this workaround, and we encourage all customers to follow our official guidelines for upgrading to Windows Vista."

Microsoft added that it does not have any plans to disable the workaround at this time.

Pugnate · « **Reply #68 on:** Thursday, February 08, 2007, 06:24:59 AM »

Interesting:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5952

News:

Author Topic: Yes another Vista thread. I apologize in advance. (Read 14165 times)