Author Topic: Pirates 3  (Read 6910 times)

Offline sirean_syan

  • Global Moderator
  • Post-aholic
  • *
  • Posts: 2,544
  • ...
Pirates 3
« on: Saturday, March 10, 2007, 11:48:53 PM »


Chow Yun-Fat? The hell?

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, March 10, 2007, 11:52:17 PM »
I, uh ...

 ... what?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline sirean_syan

  • Global Moderator
  • Post-aholic
  • *
  • Posts: 2,544
  • ...
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, March 10, 2007, 11:55:51 PM »
Maybe someone decided it was about time that ninjas actually fought pirates.

Offline Pugnate

  • What? You no like?
  • Global Moderator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 12,243
    • OW
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #3 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 12:30:17 AM »
Maybe someone decided it was about time that ninjas actually fought pirates.

hahahaha that made me laugh out loud.

OK suddenly I am interested. This might be the first Pirates movie that won't suck.



Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #4 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 01:18:06 AM »
I'm surprised you guys didn't know.  Chow Yun Fat is playing a Singaporean pirate captain named Sao Feng.  It's been talked about for ages now.  They even had casting calls out here for Asian pirate extras...but unfortunately, I didn't have the time to go in.  I think Keeb had tried though.  It should be fun, Chow Yun Fat is badass.


Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #5 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 01:20:11 AM »
He definitely has his moments.  Is he going to do like actual cool fighting stuff?  Because most of the fighting in the other movies was kinda' meh.  I guess some of it was okay.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 01:22:20 AM »
I fully expect to see at least two full-on fight scenes with him dominating. 
And then a death scene.  That's just how the Chow is. 

I swear, he's died in his movies so many times it isn't even funny.

Offline Pugnate

  • What? You no like?
  • Global Moderator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 12,243
    • OW
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 01:44:48 AM »
I always found him to be a better dramatic actor than an action star. In fact he has won numerous awards in Asia for his dramatic acting in 'gangster' type roles. It is a pity that the only work he can get in Hollywood has him swinging a sword. I actually find it really weird, because he is such a good actor without having to resort to a katana, but I don't blame Hollywood for that, I blame his lack of English. The thing is, he isn't very good at melee type of action anyway.

I heard Jackie Chan the other day wanting to do less action roles and more dramatic stuff. I've heard the same stuff from Jet Li, and I think it is their own bloody fault. They've been acting in America so long, yet haven't mastered the English language. How can they expect to get good roles without being able to speak the language?

The only one I do feel bad for is Chow Yun Fat, because he is a very good actor. His skills have translated into him getting some very good roles, but I know he can do even better if he learns the language.

Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 02:16:29 AM »
Contrary to what you may think, Chow Yun Fat is very well spoken.  He's got a very good grasp of the English language with something of an accent, not too thick, but very understandable.  And you should actually blame Hollywood and the film industry for these guys not getting the roles they may want.  It's not always up to them to decide what kind of roles they play.  They've become typecasted as action stars and movie studios here and in Hong Kong don't particularly like them straying from that. 

For instance, Jackie Chan had an idea for a dramatic movie and was pushing it to the studios, but they feared it wouldn't sell with the people, so they threatened to pull funding unless he added action to it, at the cost of the story.  That movie ended up being Gorgeous.  It was decent, but forgettable. 

It's not always their faults they can't get the roles they want, you forget that the studios already see them as two-dimensional action stars, and in the case of Jackie Chan buddy comedy action movies, that it's the only type of movies they can be halfway successful in, so they're not gonna take a risk at that.

Chow Yun Fat's lucky in that he transcended his dual-gun blazing persona early on because he did both dramatic and action roles.  He had the chops to be intense and emotive, so he's done well with himself.  Jacky Chan and Jet Li, on the other hand, never really had chances to be taken seriously in dramatic roles since they'd done nothing but action and martial arts movies since the beginning of their careers.  And that's just their Hong Kong career, they've only been doing movies here since about 1998.  So, it hasn't been so long. 

Another thing is the racial card.  It sucks and I don't want to pull it, but it still exists.  How many widely released movies have an Asian as the main character?  A movie that isn't being made by an Asian computer that is funded by Hollywood?  We saw a couple back in the day, the Corruptor, the Tuxedo, Romeo Must Die, the Medallion, Shanghai Noon, Rush Hour, the One.  And even then, most of these movies were buddy flicks, too.  And in some cases, like Romeo Must Die or the Tuxedo, you never get to see the main character get the girl, right?  There's this invisible hand holding everything back, because the studios just don't think audiences are ready to see that.  Granted, this was a couple years ago, so maybe it's changed, but the studios continual pushing of these types of roles drove them mad.  Jackie Chan took time off because he was getting frustrated wtih studios messing with the way he filmed, Chow Yun Fat took off because he was tired of getting crappy movie parts.  It's not entirely their fault that they don't get the roles they want, you know?

And inability to speak the language?  I think that's a ridiculous reason.  They can speak English perfectly well, I mean, sure it comes makes them come off as really fobby, but that's not their fault.  It wouldn't make any difference if they spoke perfect English, what holds them back is the accent.  They were all born and raised in Hong Kong and China and learned English later on in their lives after becoming more well-known.  Their accent is something that's never gonna go away, no matter how much English lessons they'll get.  So, I think your argument is flawed.  They can speak English and they have proved it in all the movies they've done over here.  I mean, watch an interview or two of them and you can see they can understand and communicate perfectly fine in an English environment.  Chow Yun Fat, though, is the luckier one as his accent is much less pronounced.

Hmm, I seem to have gone on a rather long tirade.  Apologies for the tone, by the way.  I guess this is one of the few things that can get me worked up, haha.

Offline PyroMenace

  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 02:26:14 AM »
Meh, I really dont find it a pity that these guys don't get better roles. From the Jackie Chan flicks I've seen, there are usually out takes at the end of those movies, his english is okay at best, and I don't see him at getting much at a dominant role in a dramatic movie ever. Chow Yun Fat has the best chance but his competition is pretty harsh. However when it all comes down to it, these guys are all fucking rich so what does it really matter.

Offline Quemaqua

  • 古い塩
  • Administrator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 16,498
  • パンダは触るな。
    • Bookruptcy
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #10 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 02:34:24 AM »
I'm kinda' with hoob on this.  To a point.  I think if they really worked at it, they could do it.  The accents may be heavy, but I think all the guys have potential as dramatic actors.  I think I've seen enough of all of them at this point that I can say they could do it if they put their minds to it.  You'd never be able to ignore the fact that they've got the heavy accents and such, which would limit their roles to some degree, but I think they *could* do it if they put their minds to it.

And I also don't think Chow Yun Fat does too badly with English.  He's got a pretty soft touch, I always liked his voice.  I'd have no issue watching him do something with no fighting, even in English.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #11 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 02:39:46 AM »
And I also don't think Chow Yun Fat does too badly with English.  He's got a pretty soft touch, I always liked his voice.  I'd have no issue watching him do something with no fighting, even in English.

You should totally watch Anna and the King!   ;)
But yea, they've recently been adding a touch of drama to their movies.  Like New Police Story, you get to see Jackie Chan flex a little of his acting chops, not much, mind you, but you can see it.  And well, we know Jet Li is capable if you've seen Fearless.  It's just up to the studios to have faith in them.

Offline Pugnate

  • What? You no like?
  • Global Moderator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 12,243
    • OW
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 02:50:38 AM »
I agree with the whole race card thing, and that audiences in America aren't ready to see Asian actors take lead roles. Also in Romeo Must Die, Jet wasn't able to get the girl purely because the producers feared the audiences weren't ready. Jackie Chan in a recent movie, The Medallion kissed the lead lady in what was the first on screen Asian/White actor kiss.

However I think you are off on the language, and are making too many excuses for these guys. Even today if you listen to Jackie Chan he struggles with the English language, and no it isn't just the accent. As for Jet Li he still can't put sentences together well enough to earn dramatic roles. Also I remember reading an article last year on how Chow Yun Fat was taking classes in English because he admitted he wasn't competent in the language.

Take a look at Michelle Yeoh. She has an accent, but speaks English extremely well, in fact better than most Americans, and this is reflected in her work. I don't think it is about accents at all.

Quote
And inability to speak the language?  I think that's a ridiculous reason.

Seriously now, why is that a ridiculous reason? I am going to find the interviews with Chow Yun, but basically he talked about his ambition to earn an Oscar and how he needed to master the language to get such a role. Why is that ridiculous? How are English speaking audiences supposed to marvel at his acting prowess in an English language film, unless he speaks the language?

Quote
hey can speak English and they have proved it in all the movies they've done over here.  I mean, watch an interview or two of them and you can see they can understand and communicate perfectly fine in an English environment.

Every interview I've seen, every outtake I've seen, ever DVD extra I've watched has suggested that it isn't the accent but the lack of language that is the issue.

I am sure they can communicate reasonably in an English speaking environment, but how does that get them dramatic roles?

Also take a look at Salma Hayak. She didn't speak a word of English when she was a massive success in her home cinema. She took years of intense English study so that she could be a success in Hollywood. Even now she has an accent, but it isn't about that, it is about being able to speak well and to communicate your dialog.

Another actor I can think of is Naveen Andrews. There are far less Indians in the typical American audience than Asians, yet he has had plenty of on screen love sequences, and it hasn't been an issue. Heck he isn't even as good looking as someone like Chow Yun Fat, but he is very competent at delivering dialog.

Quote
I think if they really worked at it, they could do it.  The accents may be heavy, but I think all the guys have potential as dramatic actors.

That's pretty much what I think, but I think they need to make a bigger effort.

Quote
From the Jackie Chan flicks I've seen, there are usually out takes at the end of those movies, his english is okay at best, and I don't see him at getting much at a dominant role in a dramatic movie ever. Chow Yun Fat has the best chance but his competition is pretty harsh

That's pretty much it. I don't think it is the accent at all.
« Last Edit: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 03:14:41 AM by Pugnate »

Offline JacksRag(e)

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 468
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 03:06:31 AM »
Well, Michelle Yeoh is a bad example, because she spoke English before learning Chinese.  And Naveen Andrews was born and raised in England, too, so that's kind bad example, too.  I'll give you the Salma Hayek example, but it's different cases, you know.  Foreign actresses tend to play the supporting role or a love interest, because people are okay with that.  The exotic love interest, the feisty  immigrant or whatnot (total stereotype), but with the actors there's more of a wall.  They get relegated to token roles more often than not. 

Mm, I'm veering off again, but I guess my point was blaming them for not having more dramatic roles because of lack of a full grasp of English is kind of far-fetched. For Jackie Chan and Jet Li, they don't really get offered good dramatic roles even in their native country.  So, there's already a problem there.  Chow Yun Fat, well, we can just see how he'll do now.

Offline Pugnate

  • What? You no like?
  • Global Moderator
  • Forum god
  • *
  • Posts: 12,243
    • OW
Re: Pirates 3
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, March 11, 2007, 03:27:27 AM »
Quote
Well, Michelle Yeoh is a bad example, because she spoke English before learning Chinese.  And Naveen Andrews was born and raised in England, too, so that's kind bad example, too.  I'll give you the Salma Hayek example, but it's different cases, you know.  Foreign actresses tend to play the supporting role or a love interest, because people are okay with tha

I think those are excellent examples, and you just didn't understand my point. I gave Michelle Yeoh as an example of the lack of bias that you speak of against accents, and not any effort she made to learn the language. I've pasted what I wrote below:

Quote
Take a look at Michelle Yeoh. She has an accent, but speaks English extremely well, in fact better than most Americans, and this is reflected in her work. I don't think it isn't about accents.

As for Naveen Andrews, I know he is English. The example isn't bad, because I am trying to point out how there wasn't a racial bias against actors like them. Naveen Andrews had a fine role in The English Patient as well. On a side note, watch him in Kama Sutra. He played an Indian prince who spent his time having sex with anything remotely female, and delivered this gem:

"There are three pleasures in life. Eating meat, riding meat, and putting meat into meat."

hahaha... the movie sucked but he was good.

But the point wasn't that he learned English, but rather the fact that he gets stellar roles because he is good at it.

Quote
I'll give you the Salma Hayek example, but it's different cases, you know.  Foreign actresses tend to play the supporting role or a love interest, because people are okay with that.  The exotic love interest, the feisty  immigrant or whatnot (total stereotype), but with the actors there's more of a wall.  They get relegated to token roles more often than not.

You are right about them getting relegated to token roles, but she has had some good dramatic work as well. Again if you've seen Andrews in The English Patient, you will know he has had love scenes with white actresses.

I don't see how any of it is far fetched. As an actor you have to create opportunities for yourself. If you don't have a grasp of the language, then the producers aren't going to risk spoken dialog on you.

I too have great hopes for Chow Yun Fat. I think he is a fine actor, and hopefully he gets success equal to what he gained in Hong Kong.