Topic: Rappers are teh tough.

[nickclone]

Do you really think that race has EVERYTHING to do with how rap is percieved?

No, but its the biggest slice of the pie. A lot of white people just don't like rap, I'm not saying its because they're racist, they just don't. Black people don't like metal,  they just don't.However, if I were to say that its just some dude screaming in a microphone about Satan, I wouldn't get the same support that you would if you degrade rap.

Metal/rock talks about death, violence, drugs, etc, but it doesn't get the credit for the downfall of society that rap music does.

[Quemaqua]

Your last post is basically wrong, but whatever.  Do you have any idea how many black guys are in the metal scene?  How many Mexicans and latinos in general?  No, you probably don't, but that's not the point.  And guess what, there are tons upon tons of white people who hate metal.  They're called parents.  You moron.

Yeah, I'm done with this.  The discussion isn't even worth continuing.  I wasn't feeling a racism angle so much with this either.  My single problem is nick.  I don't hate all rap, nor do I think that rap isn't music.  I think it has a place and I think there used to be people with talent in the business and that there are still a few left.  I just hate what it's become and what it's doing to people along with the current culture that it helps propagate.  I won't change that statement and I couldn't give less of a flying fuck whether or not anyone cares, or if they're stupid enough to think it's racist.  I have no problem with anybody's background or mother country, and I hate white people on equal ground with everybody else.  But what I hate isn't the person it's the worthless culture that destroys people on a fundamental level, and I'm talking about far more than just idiot kids being noisy and disrespecting everyone because they have no concept of anything beyond Self.  I'm talking about the death of art and meaning and value on a mass level.  It isn't just hip hop culture, it's a widespread problem coming at us from more angles than we can count, and fuck anyone too stupid to see it.

And nick, I lived in Richmond most of my life, went to school there for years, was born in Oakland, and have worked in Oakland the last 10 or so years.  I didn't drive by one weekend to look at the black people, you flaming idiot.  My best friend as a kid was black.  My other best friend was a Mexican.  I'm currently acquainted with a black drug dealer, two white drug dealers (one of whom I used to beat up when he was a kid), and a guy who fell in with the Russian mafia to the point where cops won't even look him in the eye when he drives through San Francisco.  He's Persian.  Am I saying this to make myself sound tough or ghetto, like I've lived the thug life and come out on top?  No.  I'm only as tough as I need to be, and I'm not at all fucking ghetto.  I don't like any of the people I just mentioned.  I think they're all piles of crap, and the only reason I've ever hung out with any of them is because of mutual friends.  My point is that I've been here a long time and have been plenty exposed to the music and culture I talk about, so you can shove your bullshit right back where it came from.  You constantly complain that nobody reads what you say or that they paraphrase your posts, yet you have not once responded reasonably to anything I've said.  You either assume I'm lying, ignore what I said entirely, or just make something up to suit your non-point.  Plus you've done absolutely no research, you apparently know next to nothing at all about music in general, and you've got such a massive chip on your shoulder against so many things it taints everything that comes out of your fucking mouth.  So you keep talking if you feel the need, but don't expect a sympathetic ear until you learn how to communicate.  Here's a tip: staying sober for longer than your shift at work might help.

[angrykeebler]

A very small percentage of rock/metal talks about death, drugs etc.

A very LARGE percentage of rap talks about violence, drugs etc. Another huge factor in rap music is disrespecting women which you do not see much of in rock.

Keep in mind that rap also outsells rap by a large margin. The phrase "Rock is dead" didn't come out of nowhere you know.

THAT is why I believe rap is destroying society.

[Cobra951]

Come on Cobra, you can learn to sing, play an instrument or make music if you wanted. I'm not sure how good it would be, but you can do it. I think the fact that so many people believe that rapping takes no talent is the main problem.

I never said hating rap made you racist, but the biggest haters of rap are white. Thats the truth, take it however you want.

Imagine a young black guy saying he hates rap.  He'd have absolutely no social life at all.  So it's more a question of who is affected by the peer pressure and who is not.  I am neither young nor black.  It does not affect me.  I won't lose any social standing by speaking my mind on this.  I suspect this example is not isolated.  Besides, if I didn't absolutely love nearly all other "Black" music, it's conceivable that you'd have a point about racism with me.  But I do, and you don't.

I could learn to sing, or play something, but not at the level of people who are worthy of recording contracts.  I'm saying that nearly anyone could "rise" to the level of professional rap artists, with some concerted effort.  I'm speaking of performance, not writing.

Idol, yeah, I really like the Red Green character, if not the whole show.  The rest of the slapstick cast I could take or leave.

[TheOtherBelmont]

I'm grouping you together because you are all saying the same thing. Its easy to say you listen to rap, technically I can say that I listen to country western. I dunno, I'm seeing a lot of hypocritical stuff in this thread and I'm the one being made out as the bad guy. First everyone says they hate rap, then everyone say they don't hate rap, then they only hate 90% of rap ( I keep seeing 90%, if you're going to give an answer go all the way and cut the bullshit).

I don't see how anything I said is hypocritical.  I never said I hate rap, I said I hated gangster rap.  Also I don't have cut any bullshit, I am entitled to like a certain percentage of a genre of music without liking all of it.  I love metal, but do I have to like all of it because its all metal? No I don't.  I am entitled to my views on gangster rap music without having to like a large percentage of it.  I know I don't hate the type of rap I hate because I like rock, I hate the type of rap I hate because I hate it, its my own taste in music, like I said earlier my dislike for most rap music isn't just due to the content in the music, its a number of things that I base that opinion on.  If a rapper who doesn't even rap about stupid gangster cliche shit has shitty beats and just a mediocre sound as a whole, I won't listen to it.  I'll give pretty much any type of music or any artist a listen to before I say I dislike it.  I get so tired of having people think I'm just some close minded metalhead that doesn't appreciate any other type of music when I listen to all kinds of music because I love music.

Also I'm not making you seem like "the bad guy".  I am just having to clarify myself repeatedly because you are making assumptions about me and not reading what I am saying or reading into it wrong.  Also, I don't really have anything personal against you, I might not agree with you on some things, but that's it.  Anyways, I'm done with this topic, you are set in your own ways and it doesn't seem like you are going to change your assumptions about me and anyone else here.

[PyroMenace]

Holy shit Cobra, you watch Red Green? I love that show and it seems like no one else has ever heard of it.

Hahaha, yea. I haven't seen a whole lot of it, but I have seen a number of episodes, awesome show.

"If it ain't broken, your not tryin."

[poomcgoo]

I used to hate rap, but I've been getting into it more now.  It's obviously a different kind of music than rock, so it requires a different method of listening.  Sounds stupid, but you just don't listen to rock and rap the same way.  The things I love about rock and the things I love about rap are worlds different, but I still like both kinds of music.  There's plenty of rap I hate and there's plenty of rock I hate, but I like music, and if something sounds good to me it doesn't matter what it is.  I think a big problem is nobody gives rap a chance because of the ridiculous culture that's been built around it.  We can all agree on that.

Also, it MAY take more talent to play your instruments and create a rock song, but rap is not completely devoid of talent.  Have you ever tried to rap?  Try it sometime, I guarantee you sound like an idiot.  The music?  Sure it's not a traditional instrument, but these people are still composing melodies.  It may all be digital, but is it not a skill to manipulate a piece of equipment to make sounds that a large number of people enjoy?  Sounds like an instrument to me.

I fucking hate the whole "gangsta" culture.  I enjoy some of the music that comes from it.

I fucking HATE songs written by liberal deuches about George Bush being an idiot, but there's plenty of punk rock I dig.

I hate the whole goth scene and the shitheads that think metal means you need to pierce a chain into your face, but I rock out to metal on a regular basis.

I HATE LAME POP, but I'll be damned if Justin Timberlake isn't gonna be blaring from my car later tonight.

Tell me we can all get this.

[nickclone]

Your last post is basically wrong, but whatever.  Do you have any idea how many black guys are in the metal scene?  How many Mexicans and latinos in general?  No, you probably don't, but that's not the point.  And guess what, there are tons upon tons of white people who hate metal.  They're called parents.  You moron.

Yeah, I'm done with this.  The discussion isn't even worth continuing.  I wasn't feeling a racism angle so much with this either.  My single problem is nick.  I don't hate all rap, nor do I think that rap isn't music.  I think it has a place and I think there used to be people with talent in the business and that there are still a few left.  I just hate what it's become and what it's doing to people along with the current culture that it helps propagate.  I won't change that statement and I couldn't give less of a flying fuck whether or not anyone cares, or if they're stupid enough to think it's racist.  I have no problem with anybody's background or mother country, and I hate white people on equal ground with everybody else.  But what I hate isn't the person it's the worthless culture that destroys people on a fundamental level, and I'm talking about far more than just idiot kids being noisy and disrespecting everyone because they have no concept of anything beyond Self.  I'm talking about the death of art and meaning and value on a mass level.  It isn't just hip hop culture, it's a widespread problem coming at us from more angles than we can count, and fuck anyone too stupid to see it.

And nick, I lived in Richmond most of my life, went to school there for years, was born in Oakland, and have worked in Oakland the last 10 or so years.  I didn't drive by one weekend to look at the black people, you flaming idiot.  My best friend as a kid was black.  My other best friend was a Mexican.  I'm currently acquainted with a black drug dealer, two white drug dealers (one of whom I used to beat up when he was a kid), and a guy who fell in with the Russian mafia to the point where cops won't even look him in the eye when he drives through San Francisco.  He's Persian.  Am I saying this to make myself sound tough or ghetto, like I've lived the thug life and come out on top?  No.  I'm only as tough as I need to be, and I'm not at all fucking ghetto.  I don't like any of the people I just mentioned.  I think they're all piles of crap, and the only reason I've ever hung out with any of them is because of mutual friends.  My point is that I've been here a long time and have been plenty exposed to the music and culture I talk about, so you can shove your bullshit right back where it came from.  You constantly complain that nobody reads what you say or that they paraphrase your posts, yet you have not once responded reasonably to anything I've said.  You either assume I'm lying, ignore what I said entirely, or just make something up to suit your non-point.  Plus you've done absolutely no research, you apparently know next to nothing at all about music in general, and you've got such a massive chip on your shoulder against so many things it taints everything that comes out of your fucking mouth.  So you keep talking if you feel the need, but don't expect a sympathetic ear until you learn how to communicate.  Here's a tip: staying sober for longer than your shift at work might help.

Que, where do find all the space to pull all of this shit out of your ass? There are not a lot of blacks or latinos in metal, there just isn't. Its getting to the point where I can't even read the walls of bullshit you post here.

Haha! I like how you pulled the "I'm not racist (not like I ever called you one), because I have a Mexican friend". People who say stuff like this usually have something to prove, what are you trying to prove Que? I also think you're a liar, you don't know any drug dealers, you don't know any...Russian mafioso? Do you actually believe any of this shit that you're typing? I find it really pathetic that you would make up stories and spite yourself just to get back at me.

P.S. Belmont, most of that post wasn't directed at you. You're cool in my book.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Que, where do find all the space to pull all of this shit out of your ass? There are not a lot of blacks or latinos in metal, there just isn't. Its getting to the point where I can't even read the walls of bullshit you post here.

Haha! I like how you pulled the "I'm not racist (not like I ever called you one), because I have a Mexican friend". People who say stuff like this usually have something to prove, what are you trying to prove Que? I also think you're a liar, you don't know any drug dealers, you don't know any...Russian mafioso? Do you actually believe any of this shit that you're typing? I find it really pathetic that you would make up stories and spite yourself just to get back at me.

P.S. Belmont, most of that post wasn't directed at you. You're cool in my book.

Nick, I honestly think Que has no reason to lie about his background, nor would he, I think I, and several other people here know him well enough to know that as well.  Also your mention about not a lot of blacks and latinos being in metal is for the most part wrong, I live in Texas and you would be surprised to find out that a very large amount of metal fans are Hispanic, metal bands actually put on a lot of shows in Mexico and South America because of the large fanbase there.  One of the largest groove/thrash metal bands that consisted of Brazilians, well used to be large anyways, was Sepultura.  That's just one example too.

[MysterD]

Shoot Em Up is the one song I've heard by Nas. How is this being above the whole gangster thing? I know I'm just judging based off one song, but still.

That was during his "Nas Escobar" era. Okay, I'll just explain a lot here...

A lot like 2Pac (hence why Nas often compares himself w/ Pac in his records), Nas always had a battle with two personalities of himself -- namely, the thug (Nas Escobar) and the poet (Nasty Nas). This began, namely, w/ "It Was Written" -- his 2nd album. This happened b/c his first album, sales-wise, was a flop upon release -- though, "Illmatic" was highly praised by critics and fans of rap alike; this album is often regarded as the best rap album ever made period. This struggle is most apparent over his 3rd CD, "I Am...The Autobiography," in which the entire album, is probably his wildest disc. Why is this? Well, he struggled b/t his two personalities the most here, as both run rampant throughout the album. What do the two personalities represent? They represent namely, his struggles b/t what he wants to do for music (just as himself, Nasty Nas) and want his record label wanted (Columbia Records wanted a character more like Nas Escobar, given the rise of the "gangsta rap" sub-genre of rap music).

Many of the tracks that originally were supposed to appear on "I Am...The Autobiography" were more like his early "Illmatic" stuff and his more recent stuff, but Columbia Records wanted more "gangsta rap" type tracks on the album -- especially since at that time, those were the records doing namely all the selling. This album was originally supposed to be a double album, actually -- where the two discs were going to be split between his two personalities equally. But, that idea was eventually scrapped -- especially since numerous tracks wound up bootlegged all over the streets and with the arrival of music-sharing programs (Napster, Kazaa, etc etc) around then. And, many of the bootlegged tracks were his not-so-gangsta rap stuff from that "I Am" album. So, many of these very personal tracks, such as "Drunk By Myself", "Poppa Was A Playa", "Purple", and "Fetus (Belly Button Window)," wound up being bootlegged like crazy. Fans wanted these tracks released by Columbia Records so bad, that they got these tracks released all on "The Lost Tapes" album.

In recent years, especially more so now than ever, Nas has been a lot like he was back when Nas first arrived w/ "Illmatic." Nas has pretty much strayed away from the gangsta rap Nas Escobar personality.  The success of "Stillmatic" really began the butchering of his Esco personality, if you ask me -- and of course, w/ that title, it sparked sales for the original "Illmatic" album. The Esco personality only got buried more so w/ his next success, "The Lost Tapes". It just continued from there, basically....really got the ball rollin'...

On his new album "Hip Hop Is Dead" and the actual song itself, Nas takes some shots at artists -- and most of all, himself for what he feels was himself betraying hip hop. Hence the entire 3rd verse from that "Hip Hop Is Dead" song. Here's some of it. The bold stuff is where he's really takin' shots at himself. "Everybody sound the same, commercialize the game/Reminiscin' when it wasn't all business/It forgot where it started/So we all gather here for the dearly departed/Hip-hopper since a toddler/One homeboy became a man, then a mobster."

[Quemaqua]

Nick again points out he knows nothing about music.  Yes, there's a huge latin metal scene.  Go to a Brujeria show and get in the pit with those motherfuckers.  They'll change your mind right quick.  Am I saying the majority of metal or metal fandom is black and latino?  Obviously not.  I'm saying there's a significant presence, and saying otherwise is just stupid.  Sepultura had a huge following, and if you think they're the only metal act to come out of Brazil you're... stupid.  Click here.  Click on Brazil.  Look at the list of bands on the side.  Then go fuck yourself with a screwdriver.

[MysterD]

Talk about a "Classic" right here.
New song by Nas, Rakim, KRS-ONE, and Kanye West.
Produced by DJ Premier.

[nickclone]

Nick again points out he knows nothing about music.  Yes, there's a huge latin metal scene.  Go to a Brujeria show and get in the pit with those motherfuckers.  They'll change your mind right quick.  Am I saying the majority of metal or metal fandom is black and latino?  Obviously not.  I'm saying there's a significant presence, and saying otherwise is just stupid.  Sepultura had a huge following, and if you think they're the only metal act to come out of Brazil you're... stupid.  Click here.  Click on Brazil.  Look at the list of bands on the side.  Then go fuck yourself with a screwdriver.

You only listed two bands, both local. Is this the huge following you're talking about? I think you should do an introspective on yourself before you tell anyone they don't know anything about music. I really got a laugh out of that second band's page that hasn't been updated in about a year. I can't get my head around you saying you're done with this topic, only to come back with a lame ass argument. I think you should ponder on it for a bit...and conjure up something better than..."screwdriver fucking".

[Quemaqua]

I said I was done with the rap topic, which I am.  I'm never going to be done watching you make an ass of yourself.

EDIT - Also, I didn't link to two bands.  I linked to one.  The other is a site that covers latin metal and has nothing to do with local anything.  So I don't know where you're even getting that.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Nick you neglected (or missed) that link that has a ton of metal bands in Que's post which was the main point of that post(screwdrivers aside).  There are hundreds of bands listed for Argentina, Mexico, and Brazil and other Latin countries.

[nickclone]

Nick you neglected (or missed) that link that has a ton of metal bands in Que's post which was the main point of that post(screwdrivers aside).  There are hundreds of bands listed for Argentina, Mexico, and Brazil and other Latin countries.

You know, when I looked at the number of bands I thought Que's ass logic might actually be right about something. I counted all the bands from each country as well:

272 Brazil
76 Chile
25 Uruguay
103 Mexico
213 Argentina

A total of 689 bands sounds like a lot right, I thought so too until I started looking at some of these bands. A lot of them only have one record, half of their profiles aren't even there and most of them haven't released a record during the 21 century...or the 90's. I thought 689 was a lot until I realized these are all the bands to come out of South America ever! Its been almost 30 years and thats all the bands they have.

Is this the influence thats being talked about? The significant slice of the pie that Latinos are cutting out of the metal genre? Thats only 22 bands a year, almost all of them are broken up, most of them are one hit wonder and I can't even tell what the rest are because their profile leads to an error message.

As a lark I went only on Myspace to see how many metal band there were registered there, they have 16,675. Lets assume that half of these bands have at least one Latino member (but aren't a Latino band, so we'll just take them out of the equation all together), the other bands of the predominately white genre still outnumber Latinos 12 to 1.

Of course theres Latino bands, but they're nowhere nearly as significant as you imply them to be. Most of their careers ended unnoticed over 20 years ago.

[MysterD]

in other news - WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING ON HIS NECK? how much did it cost him, and does he actually think it looks good?

About the chain, that thing's huge! hehe. A lot of artists are into wearing crazy amounts of gold.

About the Egyptian Sarcophagus looking chain -- he's self-promoting his 3rd album, it looks like. hehe. Besides the usual Biblical references on the album, he refers especially to Greek Mythology and Egyptian Mythology all over a good portion of his 3rd LP, "I Am..."

On "I Am...", he called himself "The Pharaoh Nas" here and there on it -- for example, he calls himself that on the song "Nas Is Like."
Example from that song -- "Planets in orbit/Line 'em up with the stars/Tarot cards/Y'all can see The Pharaoh Nas."

He compared himself to a lot of stuff in "Nas Is Like," beginning many lines with "I'm Like..." or "Nas Is Like..." or "Like...".
Example from that song -- "Like Greeks in Egypt, learnin' somethin deep from they teachers."

On the album cover, he's dressed up in gold, looking like a Pharoah's sarcophagus.
And inside the liner notes, there are pictures of him looking like his was made into a Egyptian Sarcophagus.

He even does refers to Isis on the song "K-I-SS-I-N-G."
Example from that song -- "She was the modern day Isis/Honey-doll, she was priceless/Perfect definition of what a wife is."