Topic: Wait, 1.5 million copies sold is a bust?

[sirean_syan]

That's what Edios says about the last Tomb Raider.

So, are "big" games like this really costing 100 million dollars to make, or are people just expecting too much. If they are costing 100 million, someone's doing something wrong.

[gpw11]

Is that what the actual budget was?  It seems high.  But 1.5 million for a big budget holiday release could very well be a bust, keep in mind that the game hit every major platorm; PC, PS2, PS3, 360, Wii, DS.

[MysterD]

They really should have waited to release TR: Underworld. Bad timing -- too many extremely highly anticipated games coming out at that time; i.e. Spore (PC), WoW: Lich King (PC), Left 4 Dead (multi), Fallout 3 (multi), Gears of Wars 2 (X360) and Fable 2 (X360). Q4 is a too-crowded time to drop a new game, if the big boys are dropping -- and boy, did those big boys drop in Q4 or what!

They should've waited for the right time to drop the game -- like NOW. There's really nothing BRAND NEW on the market dropping like...this Tuesday. January would've been the perfect month to drop this game, since not many big titles drop normally January. By January, people are usually playing catch-up on what they missed from Q4 of the previous year since so many games crowd the market at that time -- and some by now have been hit with a price drop and then some. Having something like a big name game like a Tomb Raider drop now in January with a brand new game would be...well, perfect, I think. I think TR has enough name-power to drop a brand new game in a slow market to the point where people would shell out good money -- especially if it's decent enough.

They should've waited to have the game in a little bit of a better condition, too. Early reports of the TR: Underworld game not being that great and having some issues weren't good, either. Dropping the game in a much better state would've helped -- i.e. such as an improved camera system. Dropping in January 2009, they could've had more time to polish that up and whatever other issues the game had.

Regardless, I'll probably pick-up TR: Underworld, in due time. TR: Anniversary was pretty good. Though, I still do need to find TR: Legend.

[gpw11]

What the fuck?  You just used 'drop' or some variant of it 12 times in that post.  What the fuck?

[MysterD]

What the fuck?  You just used 'drop' or some variant of it 12 times in that post.  What the fuck?

What do you expect from me?
You know I am known to drop long-winded posts like such.
Not like this message here, which will be cut short.

[sirean_syan]

Is that what the actual budget was?  It seems high.

I pulled that number out nowhere. Originally I was trying to think how much they would have to sell to break even and just made the budget huge for effect. It would be interesting to learn how much a company gets in return per copy sold though. If they made a modest $7, the budget would have to be about 10 million to break even. That seems low, so maybe $15? A budget of 22 million then. If they're trying to make games for more than that, what do they expect? Just because a game doesn't go on to sell more copies than the Bible doesn't means a failure. Success should be measured in profits, not sales numbers.

[idolminds]

Crystal Dynamics cut 30 people over this. Just kind of shows where the game industry has grown too big, too fast. If you can sell 1.5 million of something and thats not good enough then something is wrong.

[Cobra951]

It could have fallen short of projections, which means stock that was speculated up on fantasy numbers would then go down.  Profit is not enough for publicly held companies.  They want constant growth in profits, which is of course ultimately impossible.

[PyroMenace]

Maybe they should stop relying in the Tomb Raider games so much... just a thought, and do something you know... new.

[Quemaqua]

This is why I was always afraid of games becoming big business.  My fears have been justified over and over and over again.  It isn't the end of the world, it just sucks to watch great art enter the business realm the way this has.  Not that TR was ever more than schlock beyond the first game, but there are other circumstances where this kind of thing has affected games that were actually good.  That's when it sucks.  Here... who the hell cares about Tomb Raider anymore?  It's been uninteresting for years now.  Like maybe a decade.

[Pugnate]

Maybe they should stop relying in the Tomb Raider games so much... just a thought, and do something you know... new.

Well unfortunately new IPs are crashing left and right.

You've got Stardock, but not everyone can be like Stardock. Their hook isn't easy to duplicate, especially since their business model relies on sales that come in over a period of years, rather than overnight. And Eidos really did make an effort with Kane & Lynch... all signals pointed to the fact that they wanted it to be a new franchise. You had a movie with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob, and talks of many sequels etc. Now I can see why Eidos freaked out so much over that game. Man, this industry is just full of bad news.

But you are right, no matter how difficult, they do need to spread their horizons. Unfortunately it is more than a cutthroat business, and they need their cash cow to keep them afloat.

The other issue is they keep forcing their goose to lay the golden eggs. Frankly, while 1.5 million across 5 platfroms worldwide isn't megablockbuster material, it isn't bad for a game that had like three other installments during the past few years. On average, I bet we see a lot more Tomb Raider games than we do cross platform editions of GTA or the Elder Scrolls.

[MysterD]

Well unfortunately new IPs are crashing left and right.

And this is a problem. Why would EA want to invest more sequel in say Dead Space and Mirror's Edge, if nobody buys them? No wonder they keep cranking out the same Maddens and sports games with basically just new rosters and one new feature and a gameplay tweak here and there every year.

Also, Dead Space and Mirror's Edge came out at the wrong time -- during Q4 2008, when other big titles were going to come out for the consoles. Toss onto it that Dead Space PC the fact it comes with DRM and that it did have issues, who's gonna buy it for the PC but the most tolerant of DRM?

I think if anything, Dead Space and Mirror's Edge on the PC might sell well on Steam -- namely, when their prices drop, in due time. 

And Eidos really did make an effort with Kane & Lynch... all signals pointed to the fact that they wanted it to be a new franchise. You had a movie with Bruce Willis and Billy Bob, and talks of many sequels etc. Now I can see why Eidos freaked out so much over that game. Man, this industry is just full of bad news.

Despite some not-so-good mechanics (no cover button to jump in and out of cover, which made the controls wonky b/c the game would go in and out of cover depending how close you stood to an objects) and some poor in-game performance, Kane & Lynch was still pretty cool -- b/c of its action, dialogue, voice-acting, music, and of course the two kick-ass characters themselves.

If IO would fix those gameplay mechanics up, I would like to see a K&L 2.

But you are right, no matter how difficult, they do need to spread their horizons. Unfortunately it is more than a cutthroat business, and they need their cash cow to keep them afloat.

The other issue is they keep forcing their goose to lay the golden eggs. Frankly, while 1.5 million across 5 platfroms worldwide isn't megablockbuster material, it isn't bad for a game that had like three other installments during the past few years. On average, I bet we see a lot more Tomb Raider games than we do cross platform editions of GTA or the Elder Scrolls.

Oh, yeah -- we see GTA's and Elder Scrolls usually every few many years.

We see a new TR game like yearly, just about.

[idolminds]

Things be a-changin'

Eidos is considering revising the look and play of her Tomb Raider adventures, which may see efforts to make her more female-friendly, in an attempt to revive sales of games starring the pneumatic archaeologist.

Robert Brent, the chief financial officer of Eidos, said: “We need to look at everything, as we develop the next game. Look at how Batman changed succesfully, from the rather sad character of the Michael Keaton era to the noir style of The Dark Knight.”

TR: Angel of Darkness, anyone? Yeah.

More explorey, less combat. And...maybe just a little less of the obviousness. I enjoyed playing Anniversary, but I started to dislike that every handhold and rod to swing off of stood out so much. It was like a big neon "GO HERE" sign. The rods stood out because they didn't fit in naturally. The only reason they existed in the world was to jump over the specific rubble, as if the ancient people put it there "Just in case this particular column eventually collapses in such a way as to block the usual way up. In a thousand years or so."

[Quemaqua]

What did that better was Uncharted.  It wasn't the best game ever or anything, but it was a lot of fun and I liked the evolution of the TR-style exploration stuff.  And the combat was better (though I'd still rather have a game that was 100% exploring, no combat).

[Ghandi]

I loved Uncharted, but I don't really agree with that. The proverbial neon "GO HERE" signs were still largely present. It was the character development, the atmosphere and the great visuals that really kept the game going for me. I can't say that I ever really questioned where to go next.

[Quemaqua]

Well, neither did I.  I guess it just felt more natural?  I don't know.  Maybe I'm misremembering.  I just don't recall stuff feeling out of place, really.  Maybe it was just better level design.

[Ghandi]

Well, we might be in agreement, to a certain extent. I actually loved the game, even realizing it's flaws. I never had to think too hard, but it was fun nonetheless. I think that I put it on the hardest setting and I actually did find a few parts fairly hard.

But, honestly: Tomb Raider sold 1.5 million copies? Either I underestimated the franchise or people are supremely gullible. 

[Xessive]

Uncharted did a great job of integrating these devices within the environment. I think with such games there needs to be a level of clarity to these path elements, if they were onscured by the environment it'd be too easy to get lost in the game. I think that's something that can be learned from Assassin's Creed in environment design. Everything looked seamless and natural but it was functional.

I'm not surprised about TR's sales, as I've said before since Crystal Dynamics took over the games have been quite decent. As a huge fan of the original (back on my Saturn) I was really happy with Anniversary.

[scottws]

I agree with Xessive.  I could do without TR2 to TR-whatever-before-Legend.  But both TR:L and TR:A were both great games.  Sure, there were obvious poles.  So what?  They are games.

It was nice to go back and play a game that wasn't just pure action + story.  The puzzle elements were a nice break from sort of the sameness that a lot of modern games have at their core in comparison to one another.

[iPPi]

I remember the old days of the N64 -- when it sold a million copies it went to the 'Player's Choice' category and we saw a price drop in the game.

[Xessive]

I remember that! The N64 days were great.

Right now for PS3 I usually wait for games to get the "Platinum" label so they can drop in price.

[Ghandi]

Zero Punction on TR:U

[MysterD]

Zero Punction on TR:U

Oh man, that was absolutely hilarious...