Author Topic: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex  (Read 6208 times)

Offline idolminds

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Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 12:31:43 PM »
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Phil Harrison, outgoing exec at Sony's worldwide studios, and Peter Molyneux, boss of Microsoft's Lionhead studio, have both agreed that home console controllers are too complex and put new users off playing videogames.

"You hand somebody a game controller and it's like you've handed them a live gun or a hand grenade with the pin taken out," commented Harrison during GDC last week.

"We don't use half the buttons on the 360 controller,” admitted Molyneux, "simply because the whole dream I've got is that someone will sit down to play Fable 2 who has never played a game before and they can play with someone who's played games the whole of their lives.

"I wish there wasn't so many buttons on the controller. You have to approach that in design terms by thinking you've only got one button," he added.

Harrison praised Nintendo's Wiimote for being a "non-game centric device" which has bought an element of "democratisation" to controlling videogames. He was also impressed with Apple's iPhone for appealing to a user's natural instincts.

"I saw this first hand a few weeks ago where a two year old was playing with an iPhone and he knows how to get the pictures up of mum and dad. The two year-old then intuitively thought that all electronic devices worked like that," said Harrison. "He's pressing the TV to change channels."

"He's right and the rest of us are wrong – that should be applied universally. Apple should be applauded for that innovation," he added.
Funny he went with the iPhone comparison and not DS.

The reason I posted this is not for the article itself, but for the reactions to it I'm seeing in various forums. Gamers are being elitist. The amusing part being these are elitist console games. But they are forgetting that all these complicated games we play are only playable because we are used to the complexity. Me personally, I grew up with the gradual progression of controllers. I had the joystick and one button, the dpad and 2 buttons, the SNES pad, and then the PSX pad. Now, though, gamers (or potential gamers) are presented with pads with 10 buttons, a dpad, 2 sticks, and 2 triggers (looking at my 360 controller).

People are taking this as simple controls = simple games, which doesn't have to be the case. Look at Gears of War. They could have made the game very complicated, given you a jump button, a "cover" button, etc. Instead they made the A button a context sensitive action button. It worked well and all the various moves could be preformed with one button. Its like the Relic guy said in the GDC podcast: there is a difference between complexity and depth.

A perfect example of a hardcore game with simple controls: Geometry Wars. All you need are the 2 sticks and one button. While GeoWars is also a fairly simple title, I can see a more complex game without making the controls any harder. A top-town shooter with levels and goals. The single button doesn't fire a screen clearing bomb, but it becomes context sensitive like Gears. You can have objectives to reach and use.

And then someone brought up the board game Go. All you have to do is select a point on a grid and hit a button to place a stone there, and all of a sudden you have one of the easiest to learn and hardest to master games ever. You literally could do it on the joystick with one button.

Outside of the controller issue, its odd seeing gamers react negatively to games that try get more people into gaming. This ain't no country club. So a game comes out that appeals to casuals, to non-gamers. Why is that a bad thing? No one is forcing you to play those games and companies are still making the games you like, so why bitch about it? The funny part is if a game is fun enough to appeal to non-gamers, I would thing they would also have some appeal to gamers as well. An easy to control fun little game? Sign me up.

Offline poomcgoo

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 01:00:03 PM »
That context sensitive A button in Gears fucking blows in multiplayer.  Put whatever the fuck you want on the A button, but just make dive/roll a separate button.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 01:14:05 PM »
I think they are being "elitist" because they don't want to see the next Xbox have a controller with one analog stick and two buttons, like an Atari.

He is right, but then why doesn't he just develop games for the Wii? It is a case of horses for courses.

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Phil Harrison, outgoing exec at Sony's worldwide studios, and Peter Molyneux, boss of Microsoft's Lionhead studio, have both agreed that home console controllers are too complex and put new users off playing videogames.

Yea that's just something perhaps the article paraphrased poorly. Something like that is bound to offend people, because it is too sweeping a statement. Too complex for casual gamers? Yes. Too complex for normal gamers? No.

Simply saying too complex is too sweeping a statement, and is bound to piss people off.

Quote
"We don't use half the buttons on the 360 controller,” admitted Molyneux, "simply because the whole dream I've got is that someone will sit down to play Fable 2 who has never played a game before and they can play with someone who's played games the whole of their lives.

I've been listening to a lot of statements like these from guys like him, Spector, Chris Taylor, and even the people at Cavedog, and I think these people are possibly suffering from Oscar envy. I think they are watching these movie directors get big awards and recognition, and are probably thinking to themselves that they deserve the same recognition. For that to happen, they want their games to be more accessible. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I feel the Wii is their perfect playground.

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 02:20:10 PM »
I'm probably terribly biased on this, considering i've played consoles since I was 4 years old...but I can't imagine any controller having that much of a learning curve.

I'm all for the idea of simplifying controls, as long as it doesn't take away from the experience.  It works much better on some games than others.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 02:20:43 PM »
I think they are being "elitist" because they don't want to see the next Xbox have a controller with one analog stick and two buttons, like an Atari.

He is right, but then why doesn't he just develop games for the Wii? It is a case of horses for courses.

Yea that's just something perhaps the article paraphrased poorly. Something like that is bound to offend people, because it is too sweeping a statement. Too complex for casual gamers? Yes. Too complex for normal gamers? No.

Simply saying too complex is too sweeping a statement, and is bound to piss people off.


"Too sweeping" is a generous statement.  "Full of shit" is my thought.  I remember a single 8-way joystick and one button.  No, thank you!  Controllers since the Dual Shock are a freaking marvel of ergonomics and choice.  Everything is easily accessible, without needing even a glance after a short while of use.  Games that are playable with one stick and one button work just fine.  Left stick and the bottom face button (A on 360, X on PS2).  Does that mean I want to see the analog triggers and the 2nd analog stick go away?  Hell no. 

The Wii controllers with a flapping cable in between (which I've stung my face with more than once) are a step backward for traditional game control.  90% of the time, Mario Galaxy would be a better game with the GCN controller.  Once the pointer, tilt and accelerometer functions are put to better use, they will make more sense.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 03:10:47 PM »
I dont want to see the control options disappear either. I think the statements by these guys are a little misguided. Complex controls are not a fault of the controllers, its the games.

I want to give a special shout out to the Gamecube controller. Sure it looked funky and people made fun of it, but I kinda liked the oversided A button. Usually there is one button used for most things, or at least for the thing you'll use most often. Give it a nice big button. Plus the 3 buttons around it were easy enough to hit without being far from your main button. I liked it.

It just tickles me seeing people with attitude like "These guys are crazy! We need controllers with EVEN MORE buttons! And I also want to solve math equations while I'm playing! Anything less is pure shit for babies and old people!"

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 03:17:32 PM »
The Gamecube controller was really underrated. I haven't used any other controller that has fit the shape of my hands as well as it has. 

I think that there is a tendency to put too many buttons on the newer controllers. I've played many games where it seemed like the developers just threw something on another button just because it was there. Most of the time it doesn't matter - the buttons don't get in the way, so there's no downside to it. So I don't see what the big deal is.

I do think that there has been very little innovation in terms of controller design, though. Nintendo is pretty much the only one changing things up.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 03:45:16 PM »
I do think that there has been very little innovation in terms of controller design, though. Nintendo is pretty much the only one changing things up.

That pretty such is the thing about all this. Most of these articles that are coming can really be lumped into one statement: Maybe Nintendo was onto something. They might not be doing things perfectly at this point, but it does seem like they were generally one step ahead of a lot of this big named designers who've been spouting a lot of stuff off lately.

Offline scottws

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 03:59:07 PM »
"Too sweeping" is a generous statement.  "Full of shit" is my thought.  I remember a single 8-way joystick and one button.  No, thank you!  Controllers since the Dual Shock are a freaking marvel of ergonomics and choice.  Everything is easily accessible, without needing even a glance after a short while of use.  Games that are playable with one stick and one button work just fine.  Left stick and the bottom face button (A on 360, X on PS2).  Does that mean I want to see the analog triggers and the 2nd analog stick go away?  Hell no. 

The Wii controllers with a flapping cable in between (which I've stung my face with more than once) are a step backward for traditional game control.  90% of the time, Mario Galaxy would be a better game with the GCN controller.  Once the pointer, tilt and accelerometer functions are put to better use, they will make more sense.
Try playing Madden and learning all of the controllers functions in the various modes (offense pre-snap, offense post snap but without ball possession, offense post snap with ball possession, and then all the defensive modes).  Then come back and tell me that it's a marvel of choice.  It's horrible and impossible to remember!

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 04:04:12 PM »
Try playing Madden and learning all of the controllers functions in the various modes (offense pre-snap, offense post snap but without ball possession, offense post snap with ball possession, and then all the defensive modes).  Then come back and tell me that it's a marvel of choice.  It's horrible and impossible to remember!

Well, to be fair, your example is a poor choice.  People want those control options in Madden, so the convoluted control scheme is a beast of necessity. 

I still hate it with a passion though.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 04:59:56 PM »
Try playing Madden and learning all of the controllers functions in the various modes (offense pre-snap, offense post snap but without ball possession, offense post snap with ball possession, and then all the defensive modes).  Then come back and tell me that it's a marvel of choice.  It's horrible and impossible to remember!

You're not rating the controllers.  You're rating Madden.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 07:36:08 PM »
I think idol more or less said everything I could say, here.  Fucking up your design is the problem, not the controller.  I will agree that it can be daunting for new people to get into it, but look at all the new people getting into it anyway.  Just because you're sad that your stupid piece of shit game or console isn't selling well enough doesn't mean that you need to get even more people into it by cheapening it to death, and that's the problem with this kind of stuff.  People are so gung-ho now about appealing to the common man and trying to grab more casual gamers, and a lot of that is certainly Nintendo's doing.  They've managed to find success there, now everyone wants a piece of it.  The problem as I see it is that these people don't really even understand the fundamentals of what they're talking about.  These controllers are far from complex.  They don't even have as many fucking buttons as a TV remote, for God's sake.  It's all about familiarity, and anything worth doing takes time to get familiar with.

"Damn!  Not enough people are buying our guitars!  Hmm... I know, let's give it only one string!  Then everyone can play it and will want to buy it!"

...

Wait.  I kind of just described Guitar Hero, and that sort of negates my point.

Fucking forget it, our society is doomed to extinction.

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Offline gpw11

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 08:43:24 PM »
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Outside of the controller issue, its odd seeing gamers react negatively to games that try get more people into gaming. This ain't no country club. So a game comes out that appeals to casuals, to non-gamers. Why is that a bad thing?

Have you seen the games out for the Wii?  Retarded.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 10:16:36 PM »
Yeah, the Wii gets shovelware shit. That happens to all the popular platforms. DS has a lot of garbage on in. Look at the release list for PSX and PS2 as they were/are nearing the end of their life cycle and you see a lot of crap games.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, February 26, 2008, 11:22:32 PM »
But I think the difference with the wii is that it's targeted at a different demographic and is basically pretty popular with that demographic because of it's ease of use.  The console could very well be in it's prime and the shelves are covered with an insane amount of simplistic one-button party games. I was pretty much joking before, but most of the people who have taste similair to us (very generalized 'us') are already into games because they're predisposed to be that way.  I'd personally rather the resources go towords making games I like rather than "Ms. Muggletons Muffit Adventure Featuring 1000 Games the Whole Family Can Enjoy". 

That's not to say, however, that I want all games to be complex or complicated. It's just that I'd rather the simple games be simple because they don't need anything more, rather than simple because they want to appeal to someone who has a problem grasping simple game mechanics. 

I think people reading newspapers is a very good thing, but it's kind of counter-productive when in order to do that the editors have to make sure the papers are written at a grade 3 level

Offline scottws

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 08:43:51 AM »
I think everyone is misinterpreting the Wii, again.  What makes it fun are the social aspects of it.  Sonic and Mario at the Olympic Games (or whatever it's called) and Wii Sports are pretty lame games by themselves.  But they are a blast when playing them with other people.

It's a great party system.  It's not a very good single-player system.  I get tired of people knocking the Wii for it not conforming to their tastes when it isn't even trying to in the first place.  Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole.

It's like bitching that Hasbro doesn't make male Army figures under the Barbie brand or that you can't buy a Ferrari minivan.

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 10:22:17 AM »
Yeah, the Wii gets shovelware shit. That happens to all the popular platforms. DS has a lot of garbage on in. Look at the release list for PSX and PS2 as they were/are nearing the end of their life cycle and you see a lot of crap games.

Normally I'd agree, but the PS2 is getting some primo shit released for it.  I'm very surprised.  I mean it's mostly companies like SNK Playmore and Atlas, but look at this lineup for the next few months:

SNK Arcade Collection
Fatal Fury Battle Archives Vol. 2
World Heroes Anthology
Persona 3 Expansion
Samurai Shodown Anthology
Arcana Heart  - CAN NOT WAIT
Heavenly Guardian - Under the radar, but will be pretty awesome.
Metal Gear Collection (Basically a reissue, but it's a NICE reissue for those who haven't played the series)
King of Fighters 98 remake (down the road though, most likely toward the end of 08)

There are more that I can't think of.  True that it's mostly niche stuff, but it's far from shovelware.  and all of that listed is priced from 15-30 bucks.

Hell, I haven't been this excited about the PS2 in a LONG time.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 10:32:12 AM »
I'm not saying the PS2 is only getting crap, just pointing out that just because a system gets a bunch of crap games doesn't diminish the good games it gets. That applies to all systems, including the Wii.

To go with what scott said, I think the social aspect of the Wii is whats making it so popular, and a lot of games are capitalizing on that. But I don't think theres any reason that it can't have your more traditional "hardcore" singleplayer games. Its already got Metroid Prime 3 and Zelda. It just needs some more.

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 10:55:47 AM »
I'm not saying the PS2 is only getting crap, just pointing out that just because a system gets a bunch of crap games doesn't diminish the good games it gets. That applies to all systems, including the Wii.

To go with what scott said, I think the social aspect of the Wii is whats making it so popular, and a lot of games are capitalizing on that. But I don't think theres any reason that it can't have your more traditional "hardcore" singleplayer games. Its already got Metroid Prime 3 and Zelda. It just needs some more.

Agreed.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 12:02:04 PM »
Quote
To go with what scott said, I think the social aspect of the Wii is whats making it so popular, and a lot of games are capitalizing on that. But I don't think theres any reason that it can't have your more traditional "hardcore" singleplayer games

I agree with that as well. I am sure the controller can be used towards making a game that appeals to the more hardcore gamers.

The other thing is that the Wii sells for $250. For that price, I can see gamers expecting more than just party games.

Offline scottws

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 12:19:04 PM »
Normally I'd agree, but the PS2 is getting some primo shit released for it.  I'm very surprised.  I mean it's mostly companies like SNK Playmore and Atlas, but look at this lineup for the next few months:

SNK Arcade Collection
Fatal Fury Battle Archives Vol. 2
World Heroes Anthology
Persona 3 Expansion
Samurai Shodown Anthology
Arcana Heart  - CAN NOT WAIT
Heavenly Guardian - Under the radar, but will be pretty awesome.
Metal Gear Collection (Basically a reissue, but it's a NICE reissue for those who haven't played the series)
King of Fighters 98 remake (down the road though, most likely toward the end of 08)

There are more that I can't think of.  True that it's mostly niche stuff, but it's far from shovelware.  and all of that listed is priced from 15-30 bucks.

Hell, I haven't been this excited about the PS2 in a LONG time.
I think that most of that stuff is the very definition of shovelware:  collections and anthologies of (what I'm assuming are) previously released games.

That doesn't mean it's bad stuff.

To go with what scott said, I think the social aspect of the Wii is whats making it so popular, and a lot of games are capitalizing on that. But I don't think theres any reason that it can't have your more traditional "hardcore" singleplayer games. Its already got Metroid Prime 3 and Zelda. It just needs some more.
There isn't any reason Ferrari can't make minivans or Hasbro can't make male Army Barbie guys either.  The reason they don't because that isn't their market.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 01:28:28 PM by scottws »

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 01:31:46 PM »
To go with what scott said, I think the social aspect of the Wii is whats making it so popular, and a lot of games are capitalizing on that. But I don't think theres any reason that it can't have your more traditional "hardcore" singleplayer games. Its already got Metroid Prime 3 and Zelda. It just needs some more.

I agree with that as well. I am sure the controller can be used towards making a game that appeals to the more hardcore gamers.

The other thing is that the Wii sells for $250. For that price, I can see gamers expecting more than just party games.

I'm going to join the chorus and agree with that myself.  The Wii can certainly handle good games for most of us.  The controllers have already been put to good use.  I'm thinking specifically of Metroid Prime 3, which is the Wii primer For FPS games.  And Mario Galaxy showcases solid traditional platforming.  The capability is there, and if the games come, I think so will the sales.

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 01:44:29 PM »
I think that most of that stuff is the very definition of shovelware:  collections and anthologies of (what I'm assuming are) previously released games.

That doesn't mean it's bad stuff.

"Shovelware is a derogatory computer jargon term that refers to software noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness. The metaphor implies that the creators chose the content material indiscriminately, as if with a shovel, rather than hand-picking quality works."

I don't think that really relates to the SNK compilations.  Most everything that's included (especially in the Samurai shodown, arcade collection, and fatal fury battle archives) is pretty solid.  Anyhow, releasing a series compilation does not equal Shovelware, at least not by the above definition.

Now the disc with 500 shareware games that you could buy for like 5 bucks back in the day?  That's shovelware.

Offline scottws

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 02:49:22 PM »
I think it's shovelware in the sense that it's pretty easy just to repackage past releases and make a buck on it (again) rather that create new content.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 03:27:26 PM »
I agree with that as well. I am sure the controller can be used towards making a game that appeals to the more hardcore gamers.

The other thing is that the Wii sells for $250. For that price, I can see gamers expecting more than just party games.


I'm going to join the chorus and agree with that myself.  The Wii can certainly handle good games for most of us.  The controllers have already been put to good use.  I'm thinking specifically of Metroid Prime 3, which is the Wii primer For FPS games.  And Mario Galaxy showcases solid traditional platforming.  The capability is there, and if the games come, I think so will the sales.

Cobra, my sis and I were immensely disappointed with Mario Sunshine. How is Galaxy different? Not that the whole planet isn't raving about that game, but I know you, so I thought I'd ask.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday, February 27, 2008, 03:36:22 PM »
Mario Galaxy is the spiritual successor (yeah, that term has been used a lot lately) to Mario 64.  Think Mario 64 with better graphics on a wraparound landscape, and add in a few stages designed for the new controller capabilities.  Everything has been realized beautifully.  Mario Sunshine turns out to be a detour, one which I enjoyed, but a side road nevertheless.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #26 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 12:55:58 AM »
When I first read the title of this thread I remembered the day my brother and I were trying to teach my dad how to play with our Sega MegaDrive (Genesis). The 3 buttons were just too much for him.

When we went to Egypt to visit my Grandma we found my dad's old Coleco.. Holy monkey.. It was the single most ncredible piece of ancient technology I had ever seen! The controllers were wired directly into it. The controllers had no button either, just a knob on each one which you could rotate (like a volume or tuning knob). What was the only game on this mystical device? PONG! One of greatest videogames every conceived!

The last console my dad had actually played properly was the Atari 2600.. That joystick on had one button.. Having seen what my dad grew up with I realized that our controllers were 'too complex' by comparison. I couldn't even imagine what Aari were thinking when they made the Jaguar's controller!


Offline gpw11

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #27 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 01:26:52 AM »
My dad's friend gave him a Coleco Vision when I was like 7.  That thing rocked. 

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #28 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 03:33:24 AM »
The whole time I had my early Atari stuff, I dreamed of better controllers, controllers with analog functionality similar to the best radio-controlled cars and airplanes.  I was never happy with that creaky digital stick and single button.  I preferred games that used the paddles (rotary knob + one button).  The control seemed much more direct.  One of my favorites on the 800 was called Way Out.  You're in a maze, in 1st-person perspective (flat-shaded extrusion polygons).  You press the button to go, and you turn the knob to steer.  Perfect.  4-point (8-way) digital control is so freaking limited.

We had a Magnavox hardwired Pong unit way back when.  It was great fun, for about a weekend.  Then it collected dust.

Offline K-man

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #29 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 08:48:20 AM »
I couldn't even imagine what Aari were thinking when they made the Jaguar's controller!




You're making the assumption that they were thinking to begin with.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #30 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 03:31:41 PM »

You're making the assumption that they were thinking to begin with.
Hehe true enough :P

Offline gpw11

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #31 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 06:28:22 PM »
I think everyone is misinterpreting the Wii, again.  What makes it fun are the social aspects of it.  Sonic and Mario at the Olympic Games (or whatever it's called) and Wii Sports are pretty lame games by themselves.  But they are a blast when playing them with other people.

It's a great party system.  It's not a very good single-player system.  I get tired of people knocking the Wii for it not conforming to their tastes when it isn't even trying to in the first place.  Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole.

It's like bitching that Hasbro doesn't make male Army figures under the Barbie brand or that you can't buy a Ferrari minivan.

I'm not misinterpreting it at all.  I lived in a party house with 5 roomates and people constantly over.  The Wii was pretty fun in that situation, but out of all the MP 'social interaction oriented' games out there, maybe 10 percent of them were worth playing at all.  The others were either blatant knockoffs, outright horrible, or just so overly simplistic that they got boring.  That's the problem with the Wii.  No one buys one expecting it to compete with PS3, 360, or the PC in an SP focused environment, but it's somewhat shitty when you have to dig through piles of crap in order to find something worth playing.

At the same time, you can't really hold it against people when they complain about a lack of good SP games on it.  It's a videogame console and Nintendo is obviously trying to capture that market to some extent.  Otherwise they would have just moved resources over from MP3, SMG, and whatever else over to Mario Party 234.

Nintendo is trying to open up a new market, and as usual, you can expect that the lowest common denominator effect is going to have some sort of implications on the library.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #32 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 07:16:41 PM »
or just so overly simplistic that they got boring.

I dunno, I found Wii Sports to be tons of fun with friends and it's probably the most simplistic you can get.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Phil Harrison & Peter Molyneux: Controllers are too complex
« Reply #33 on: Thursday, February 28, 2008, 07:50:57 PM »
I disagree in that Wii Sports is one of the higher quality MP party games.  It probably got the most play at my house.  It's simplistic in a very good way that leads to fun and longevity. 

You really need to see some of these other games to get what I'm saying.  "Quick, shake controller faster than your friends!" and "Point at this faster than your friends!" and "point at the differences in this picture faster than your frineds and "do X (small variation on whatever other mp games they included to fit the theme) faster than your friends.

Wii Sports is the best game of it's kind on the system as far as I'm concerned.  The problem is that nothing I've played has come even close.