Topic: A new war

[angrykeebler]

So its been overshadowed in the media by John Edwards having an affair (/roll eyes) but apparently Russia and Georgia are slugging it out for territory.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1043185/The-Pipeline-War-Russian-bear-goes-Wests-jugular.html

So much for the world coming together during the Olympics.

[Cobra951]

Georgia used the Olympics as a time to attack the separatists.  The civilians don't deserve the Russian response, but the Georgia government does.

[Xessive]

That's fucked up man. This shit doesn't need to happen and I hope the UN will do something about it, though that may just be wishful thinking.

I can't help but notice the similarity to the plot of Splinter Cell 1.

[Quemaqua]

It might happen if the UN wasn't a useless joke.

[scottws]

What I thought was very interesting is that, in a short interview yesterday with Bob Costas, President Bush made it a point to say he told Vladamir Putin that the United States deplores their actions when they are working towards world peace or some such nonsense like that.

I thought Bush handled himself very well in the interview, but I thought that statement came across as very hypocritical considering Iraq.

[Ghandi]

Georgia used the Olympics as a time to attack the separatists.  The civilians don't deserve the Russian response, but the Georgia government does.

Well put. I couldn't agree more.

But I do think that it's silly that their government thought that the Russians could be distracted by the Olympics. "Oh, it's the Olympics! Abandon all defensive positions! No need now!"

The U.S. has played it fairly well so far (i.e. not idiotically). The last thing we need is another war right now.

[gpw11]

The last thing you need is a war with Russia ever. I can't really see that going well for anyone.

Either way its kind of a fucked up story, especially with the way it is being covered.  To be blunt, I don't trust the Russian government ever, but I don't see them in the negative light here that many seem to.

[Cobra951]

This could end up being a lot bigger than Georgia's problem.  If the Russians decide to reassimilate Georgia, what's to stop them from marching on across Eastern Europe, and why should any other former Soviet satellite believe that the West is going to protect them?  Putin is KGB, an old-school Soviet thug.  I laugh at the prospect of GW Bush squaring off against him, even before considering the military strain in Iraq.  Consider that Bush stayed in China to play volleyball while Putin went back to Russia to take over this little war.

[Ghandi]

This could end up being a lot bigger than Georgia's problem.  If the Russians decide to reassimilate Georgia, what's to stop them from marching on across Eastern Europe, and why should any other former Soviet satellite believe that the West is going to protect them? 

Many of the other former satellites are now in NATO. If Georgia were in NATO, the response would have been *much* different.

To be blunt, I don't trust the Russian government ever, but I don't see them in the negative light here that many seem to.

Well, you're Canadian.

[Cobra951]

So?  Given that NATO's military strength is basically the USA, what the hell are they going to do?  We're mired in the stupidity of Iraq.  The timing of this is no accident.

[Ghandi]

Our Air Force and Navy are still strong. The one thing Iraq has deprived us of is warm bodies, which can be provided by NATO allies. I'm confident that we would be able to manage.

[gpw11]

Well, you're Canadian.

No I'm goddamn not.  Where did that damn rumour start anyways?

I should elaborate that I pretty much always see the Russian government in a negative light, although in this specific case with Georgia I'm a lot less judgemental than I would be under other circumstances.

Our Air Force and Navy are still strong. The one thing Iraq has deprived us of is warm bodies, which can be provided by NATO allies. I'm confident that we would be able to manage.

NATO's power these days is pretty much as a deterent.  Were Russia to actually start mobilizing I'm fairly certain we'd see a whole lot of countries (at least the pre-1999 expansion members a.k.a. the ones that matter and aren't directly threatened) withdrawl should diplomacy not work with Russia.  There's nothing stopping them from doing so except possibly being barred from future entry which hasn't happened so far (I believe France is back in this year) and is kind of a stupid deterrent anyways in this case.  Alliances in the height of the Cold War under the threat of Nuclear War were one thing, but Nations stopped writing blank cheques to their allies roughly around the time of the signing of the Treaty of Versailles when most of the nations involved realized what a bad idea the whole Entente/Central Powers alliances were.

Obviously most of the international community would be against Russian Expansion, but if they'd be willing to send troops is another story all together.  This wouldn't be Desert Storm.

[Ghandi]

Well, you are right - the last thing that NATO countries want or need is a war with Russia. Also, Russia supplies a good portion of the countries in the EU with energy, which gives them leverage over matters like this. Heard any complaints from Germany about Russia lately? Nope, because over 50% of their energy supply comes from Russia. Etc, etc.

I'm a little disappointed in the American press of the Georgia - Russian war, though. Georgia did start it, and kill a good deal of civilians in the process. But yet, all we hear about is the terrible Russian invasion. And then we used the invasion as an excuse to put a missile defense system in Poland.

Who exactly is provoking whom?

[gpw11]

Yeah, there's definitely an ulterior motive for the press.  It is times like this that makes me actually wonder if there is more collousion between the media and government than I'd like to admit.  "Pffft.  You think we might be unjustified in Iraq?  LOOK AT RUSSIA!!!!"  followed up by "We were just defending the free world with a missile defense system we agreed to never develop under threat of nuclear war. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY BOMBED THE FUCK OUT OF POLAND."