Topic: So I'm writing again and I need a notebook. Must has moar knowledges!

[Quemaqua]

I really want an Eee PC because they're just so awesomely small and streamlined.  The really small keyboard sort of blows because I really, really like having dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdown keys, etc., but most of the other notebook things I've looked at have small crampy keyboards too.  The new Eee PCs with a better battery life and slightly bigger screen just look perfect to me (these are the 901s I'm talking about, the 1000s just seem too expensive).  My problem?  Apparently they aren't out yet.  At least not at Amazon.com, and the other places where I can find them, they'll only sell them with XP rather than Linux, like - what the fuck? - Newegg.

So I'm wondering a couple things.  Firstly, is the 901 really worth the cash compared to other notebook solutions out there?  I don't know because I've honestly not looked much, and what I've seen I haven't been able to process too well.  It seems to vary a lot from place to place, and I can't tell what's new and what's old, and I know nothing about half the manufacturers of these things.  The two laptops I've owned so far I've gotten totally burned on, so I'm looking for that to not happen again if at all possible, and I've never actually bought a really small portable thing, just a moderately beefy thing then a full desktop replacement.  I'm a little out of my realm of experience here.

Secondly, I saw something about the Eee PCs being able to run Ubuntu.  Given that I've never used Linux before, I don't know what the differences are between one variety and another, nor do I know how they'll affect performance on the tiny, low-powered machine (the OS here matters little... I need a portable word processor and that's about it, barring probably trying to mess with photos and do some photoshop work here and there, and getting stuff to boot quick and run fast is what I want, not a big OS to bog things down pointlessly), or even how preferable it would be to run something like Ubuntu over whatever is installed on the machine from the get-go in terms of usability and stuff.  Also, does anyone know of limitations on what can be installed to an Eee PC?  If you hadn't noticed, I'm digging on the idea of Linux.  The more I've read about it, the more I've been curious, but it's never made sense for me to switch since I've always had gaming PCs and I'm too lazy for dual boot setups and whatnot.  But it sounds like it would be the perfect solution for a notebook, and it would be a great chance to experience something new.

That's about it, I guess.  Any thoughts?  Your knowledges, show me them.  I will be all appreciative and stuff!   

[scottws]

When I was looking for a laptop, I too was considering the Eee PC.  Ultimately it seemed the general consensus was "Yeah, it's neat that it's so small, but after awhile dealing with the tiny screen and keyboard sucks."  I just ended up going with a full-sized, used laptop off E-bay.  It's not so big that it doesn't fit in my backpack or anything like that.

As far as the Eee PC's OS, I think you can get them with Xandros Linux and Windows XP.  As far as running Ubuntu, last I looked you were better off with Xubuntu (the lightweight GUI version using XCE instead of GNOME).  But that was before a Eee PC with Windows on it even existed so I have no idea if newer ones can handle the OS with more resource requirements.  As far as different Linux distros... yeah there are differences but mostly in terms of theming and what sort of software is available, but also in resource requirements.  Debian and Ubuntu (and its derivatives) have the most softwae available for them.  You wouldn't want to go with SuSE because it's a beast.

I'm not familiar with Xandros or Xubuntu.  As far as Xubuntu goes, it's a Ubuntu derivative meaning it should work mostly the same as Ubuntu and have most of the same software available.  What I don't know is how desktop environment affects Xubuntu.  For instance Ubuntu uses GNOME and Kubuntu used KDE, and they have specific apps.  Like on Kubuntu I have Adept instead of Synaptic for package management  (that's the software installation tool) like on Ubuntu.  Initially, only Konqueror was installed by default when Ubuntu has Firefox (though Firefox has no problems working under KDE).  Dolphin instead of Nautilus. etc etc etc

It goes on, but mostly the different software just performs the same function in the end, though some are better than others.  I like Adept more than Synaptic due to how it searches packages.  Quanta Plus (HTML editor) kicks the shit out of anything that is available for GNOME, though even it doesn't stand up to the mighty Dreamweaver, though you can get that to work via wine (lots of stuff does... like I have Starcraft on my laptop).  Basically, I'm not sure how all that plays into Xubuntu.  I mean you can get KDE apps working on GNOME, and you can get GNOME apps working on KDE, but you greatly increase your memory footprint because you're basically loading the backend for the whole other display manager, in addition to your native one.  I just don't know if there are any "XCE apps," you know?

Anyway, if you are going Linux, I do suggest a Debian-based distro like Ubuntu or Kubuntu.  Kubuntu seems more Windows-like to me in terms of how it works.  The taskbar layout is very similar, and Ctrl-C copies and Ctrl-V pastes.  I like Kubuntu more, but the installed base of Ubuntu is much larger and therefore you'll get better community support with that.

In the end though, any Linux distro could function just fine as a mobile word processor and run Gimp (Photoshop-like app).  Personally I love Linux.  It took me awhile to sort of get over that hump where I was like "Why doesn't it do x like Windows does?"  But once I did that, what I found was a really powerful OS that lets me do pretty much anything I need to do.  I can remote into my Windows computers via the RDP/VNC tool.  I can SSH into my Linux servers right from the command line.  I can listen to my music on my file server no problem.

It's not without its issues though.  Before I upgraded to 8.04, I had to install a special tool to get connected to my wireless network because the KNetworkManager bundled with 7.10 was really basic and didn't support shared authentication; it only did open.  Also, I had to play Starcraft in a 640x480 window because there were big black bars running vertically when it was in fullscreen, which I initially thought was just that the panel couldn't display that resolution.  Then I upgraded to 8.04, and the wireless tool stopped coming back up after a suspend, which I use constantly.  I could manually start it, but I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working automatically, everything seemed to be in place and even the Ubuntu forums were flabbergasted.  Then I found that KNetworkManager was much improved and I just went back to that and got rid of the Wifi-Radar tool and wi-fi has been fine since.  Also after the upgrade, I noticed that now I could play Starcraft full-screen with no bars, but there was no sound.  Well a wine update just came out today that fixed that.

So yeah, it's not always smooth sailing and sometimes you want it "just to work."  Mostly it does and generally for the things that don't it is a minor issue or something that can be fixed with a little searching on Google.

[Quemaqua]

Thanks for the pointers.  That clears up some stuff.  I think I may just end up grabbing one of the XP Eee PCs, then do a little more research and figure out what the best Linux distro would be to throw on it.  I even saw some guy on ebay selling USB flashdrives with Ubuntu on them that you could install from.  Actually, hell, I might just check ebay and see if I can find one of the things.  I dunno', we'll see.  The tiny keyboard will surely get on my nerves, but I really want something small, and I haven't seen anything else that compares yet.  I figure if I use it enough, I'll get used to it.  I tried one in a store and it didn't seem so bad.

[scottws]

Really the best way to see if Linux will work for you is to download some of the live CDs.  I know there is one for all the Ubuntu derivatives including Xubuntu (plus an extra one for Kubuntu with the new KDE4).  There's also Knoppix, but I think that's normally used only in live CD form as a tool for data recovery and that sort of thing and not really as an installation.

Live CDs load really slow and don't show you the true performance you'll get with the installed version, but they give you a good idea if all your hardware is going to work as expected and if you'll just like the OS itself period.

[Quemaqua]

Even better, then.  That should make it pretty easy.  It's sounding like just getting a new one with XP will be fine, then I can play around with all this stuff at my leisure.

[gpw11]

You may remember that I was dead set on one before, but didn't buy one.  I did a lot of research and figured it wasn't for me.  Have you actually tested one out?  It's one thing to figure that you can adapt to the small size, it's another all together once you have your hands on it and realize that you may be hitting the wrong keys all the time because you'll still be using a normal sized keyboard on your PC at home/work.

But really, the main reason I didn't do it is the money thing.  For roughly $50 more than a 900 I got a fullsized laptop which is pretty barebones, but good enough for school.  It's obviously quite a bit larger, but way more functional and size wasn't a huge issue for me.  The thing to think about is that the new CPU in the 901s aren't really any better than the old ones except for battery life (which is actually pretty good - 5 hours real life or something like that).


But really, you need to get some hands on time.  I found that most of the people who praise it a lot don't use it for anything but quick browsing or organizing.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah.  Well, size is the main thing.  I really do want something small and easy to carry.  I want something commute friendly, and I never used my older laptops when I was on the go because it was a pain in the ass, and one of them wasn't even really that big.  I do hate the keyboard, but I figure once I use it for a while I'll get used to it.  So I totally agree with everything you're saying, and I have thought about it all, but in the end I just really want something small.  All the other smallish laptops I looked at basically used the same general setup, too, so it doesn't seem like any other small thing is going to be much better.  Which is why I think I've decided to go for it.

I do wish I could actually get one and bring it with me for a while, but obviously that isn't possible.  I'll just have to hope for the best, I guess.

[gpw11]

Yeah, if size is indeed an issue you can't really go wrong with the EEE.  I believe the 901 would most likely be the way to go then, considering that its battery life is over double that of the 900, it has bluetooth support, the new atom  processor (arguable if this really makes all that much of a difference in speed, but it explains the battery life and makes a difference in heat), and wireless n support (kind of overkill but whatever) all for $50 more.  It also looks like it will eventually be expandable to allow for direct 3G data transfer.

The other thing that is important to keep in mind is that the XP and Linux versions of the EEE PCs actually have different hardware.  I think the XP ships with 12GB of SSD storage, while the linux option ships with 20.  Also, if you're thinking of putting linux on there anyways, I'd go for the linux option and see how you like the packaged distribution as apparently it's pretty good and has a lot of usefull bundled apps already installed such as Skype and OpenOffice.

I remember when I was looking at these how badly I wished there was an option without the webcam for cheaper.  Pretty useless if you ask me.

[Quemaqua]

Huh, I just assumed the difference in storage was because XP takes up more space.  If that isn't the case, yeah, I'll definitely go for one of the ones with Linux.

[gpw11]

Nope, that's how they maintained price parity. Previously all the XP versions were either $50 or $100 more than the other option (although they did come with an additional SD card).

[Quemaqua]

How stupid.  Well, I think I've made my decision.  Now I just have to find a place that fucking sells the Linux machines.

EDIT - Crap.  I never should have read this.  I wonder when it'll launch.  It's cheaper and has a nicer keyboard.  That's kinda' compelling.  Though it may be a moot point, as it now seems the Eee PCs with XP launched already but the Linux ones haven't yet.  They're preorder everywhere.  So I guess I'll just have to keep waiting.

Arg.  This is really frustrating.  I could really use one of the things right now, and my hand is killing me from doing a couple hours a day in this effing notepad.

[gpw11]

I think it's actually out already (here at least).  From what I understand:

Upsides:

-All around better quality than the EEE
-Bigger keyboard
-Excellent price compared to the new EEEs
-way more storage if you get the mechanical drive option
-nicer screen
-very user friendly OS

Downsides:

-the 8GB SSD version doesn't work with XP so well
-512mb ram stock
-only 3-cell battery, so battery life is shorter than the EEE 901
-Ram upgrades MAY cancel warranty....no one really knows at this point.
-non xp version OS doesn't have a ton of technical options, although I don't think this would really matter for most people.

Overall I'd personally say it looks to be a better machine at a better price if you can deal with the 3 hour (their estimate) battery life and can live with running XP on 512 MB ram until someone figures out the deal with the warranty.

[scottws]

Linux Eee PC's are preorder only?  I just checked Newegg and almost all of the ones they offer are Linux.

Honestly though, if you're going to be writing for hours, don't you think you want a larger keyboard?  I doubt your hands will feel much better.  I mean ultimately it's your decision and if you are dead set on the smallest thing possible than the Eee PC is your device.  gpw and I are just trying to tell you about our research experiences.  All of mine said it's good for toying around with on the web for short bursts but that the keyboard and screen were a pain in the neck for anything more.  It just does not seem like a good writer's implement.

[Quemaqua]

Well, it didn't seem that bad when I used it.  My one and only major gripe is the way the right shift key is implemented.  It's horrible.  Everything else I could fully get used to, but that might take some effort.

Anyway scott, when I checked the other day Newegg offered only XP versions of the 901.  I'm only looking at the 901, not the 900s and below or the 1000s.

And yeah, the Acer machine would be pretty awesome if it wasn't for the battery life.  I'd fully consider going for that, but a 3 hour battery life is absolutely not going to cut it.  That's fucking pathetic and I don't understand what the point even is.  If there was an upgrade to it, then I might seriously consider it.

Do you guys have any suggestions for other models?  It doesn't necessarily *have* to be an *ultra*portable as long as it isn't huge and as long as it travels well.  I did some looking at Best Buy and stuff just to get an idea of what was out there, but all the things that were small enough to work were ridiculously expensive and offered way more hardware than I really needed.

[scottws]

I don't get why you need something so tiny.  What really is the difference besides a 25% size reduction over a normal laptop?  I mean I can understand the novelty of having something really, really small, but I simply don't understand it being a top need.  Do you really think that having a laptop that's a little smaller than your others will cause a paradigm shift in your behavior?

I'm really not trying to argue with you, even if it sounds like I am.  I guess we're just really far apart on how we think about the usefulness of laptop computers.

As far as 3hr. battery life, isn't that pretty standard?  I mean I know you supposedly can get 5hr. out of the Eee, but 3 hr. actually seems like a lot to me, considering the most I've seen any laptop personally get in reality is closer to 45 min.

[iPPi]

If you want a small and ultraportable laptop, you could always get the Sony Vaio TX model.  They weigh like 2 lbs and have an 11" screen and can pull 8 hours of battery life.

My friend had one and, while it was not that powerful, depending on what you need it for, it can easily meet your needs.

I have a Dell XPS M1210, and it's a fairly portable laptop at 4lbs with a 12.1" screen.  I don't believe M1210's are made anymore, they've released their M1330 models, which is a little bigger but thinner.  I can get 4-5 hours of battery life out of my XPS M1210 on Vista.  I used to be able to pull 6 hours on XP.

The size of the laptop makes life a lot easier.  If you're on the move a lot, not having to carry a huge laptop is a major plus.  And if you've got amazing battery life, you don't need to carry the AC Adaptor as well, making life even easier.  When I was in class still, I brought my laptop to class without bringing my AC Adaptor and was able to use my laptop for most of the day.

[Quemaqua]

See, iP just said it all pretty much.  I had bigger laptops and they were a bitch to use, but something tiny is easy to stuff into a well-planned backpack, and easy to just whip out and use for a while.  Trust me, it makes a huge difference when you're talking about using the thing the way I am.

I really like the look of some of the Vaios, but those things are effing expensive.  That's like 1k to 2k as opposed to maybe $600.  That's a lot of cabbage to blow just for a bigger keyboard and screen.  Otherwise I'd say yes, that's absolutely the best choice.  Good keyboard, good screen, lightweight, and good battery life?  I'd be all over it.  It's just... really pricey.

EDIT - Would this seem like a decent deal?  I'm really wary about trying to get something used, but scott didn't seem too bothered by doing so.  I assume I could throw Linux onto a Vaio without much issue, right?  The processor seems okay, but the RAM is quite disappointing.  It says max supported is a gig, though, so I assume there's a way to upgrade it...

EDIT x2 - The answer to the Linux question is yes, with caveats.  Specifically for the aforelinked laptop, these caveats.  I'd have to do some homework to get it figured out, but that goes with the territory.  That's half the reason I'd like to get Linux... so I can fiddle with it and learn it a little.

[gpw11]

I can't really see why you'd need anything more than a gig of Ram while running XP unless you're going to be playing some games that probably won't run too well on that anyways.  I ran XP on 512MB for years without any real issue.

And I'm going to hijack this thread a tiny bit (sorry).  I kind of want to buy a high-capacity battery for my laptop, but buying from HP directly is expensive.  Does anyone know of a good online store to buy laptop batteries and accessories, and should I trust a generic brand laptop battery?

Back on topic:  http://subnotebooksite.com may help you out some.

[scottws]

EDIT x2 - The answer to the Linux question is yes, with caveats.  Specifically for the aforelinked laptop, these caveats.  I'd have to do some homework to get it figured out, but that goes with the territory.  That's half the reason I'd like to get Linux... so I can fiddle with it and learn it a little.

I only read the first post, but that's all stuff from Breezy Badger.  They are on Hardy Heron now.  ABCDEFGH.   I wouldn't be surprised if all that stuff works by default now, but you should still check.  Just make sure to check for the current version.

And I'm going to hijack this thread a tiny bit (sorry).  I kind of want to buy a high-capacity battery for my laptop, but buying from HP directly is expensive.  Does anyone know of a good online store to buy laptop batteries and accessories, and should I trust a generic brand laptop battery?

I got a laptop battery cheap from wholesalelaptopbattery.com.

[Quemaqua]

You know, the MSI Wind is actually looking like the best option to me now.  It's got a decent keyboard with no gimped shift key, it's tiny, is supposed to have 5 to 6 hour battery life, and actually has decent specs like an 80 gig HD, a gig of RAM, and a 1.6ghz processor.  Even better, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  $500 for all that?  I could definitely be sold.  I need to look into it more, to be sure, but so far it seems really nice.  I think there was a reason I initially balked at it, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.  Battery life, I think, but 5 or 6 hours would be A-OK if that's actually true (I've yet to confirm it).

[Ghandi]

Battery life has always been a moot point with my current laptop. Generally I have a place to plug it in anyways.

But you should be aware that the battery life listed is probably the optimal battery life. Mine gets around 2 1/2 hours with the screen brightness at max, but if I bring it down to the lowest setting I can get around 5 hours or so. It isn't as nice with half the brightness, but I can manage if I need to.

[Quemaqua]

I almost always skimp on whatever I can power-wise.  My PSP is always at minimum brightness, for instance, unless I clearly need to up it.  My Pocket PC was the same.  Any laptop will surely have very low brightness settings when I'm using it, especially when I'm writing since contrasting colored letters on a solid background is pretty easy to see even when things are dim.  If I get one that can throttle the CPU, you can expect that to be down as low as I find acceptable most of the time too.

[scottws]

Most laptops auto-throttle the CPU depending on what you're doing.  For instance mine's running at... 600 Mhz right now.