Topic: Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

[Cobra951]

Story on The Guardian.  Scary stuff.  I want to find more sources on this story, before I let myself trust it.  But I think it needs to be seen by everyone, like right now.

[Pugnate]

The Guardian is playing a role the American press hasn't played since well before the Gulf War.

[idolminds]

The fact that this whole NSA thing isn't being made into a bigger deal than it is is amazing. It's basically tin foil hat wearing crazy conspiracy, but actually really real.

Makes you want to teach everyone to use PGP encryption on all their emails and stuff.

Also that photo....why are you staring at a screen with a backwards skype logo?

[Pugnate]

I don't understand why a bigger deal isn't being made.

[scottws]

We are too afraid of turmoil that might upset our comfortable lives. Seriously.

[Cools!]

Yeah, I think that's it.

This is serious stuff and yet most people just go "well, what do you have to hide?" or "don't write anything sensitive!".

[Pugnate]

We are too afraid of turmoil that might upset our comfortable lives. Seriously.

That's what I was thinking, but didn't say because I didn't wish to offend someone. It is just that the world is out on the streets and hardly a protest in America against what is definitely outrageous.

At the same time I remember Obama's campaign speeches. I remember the idealistic way he started his presidency, reaching out to Iran etc.

Something happened. Maybe this is just the shit world we live in and all of this is necessary to prevent Bostons and 9/11s?

[Cools!]

There have been protests, just not a lot of coverage. Then again from what I've seen the reaction in Europe has been about the same: some huffing and puffing in the European parliament but I don't think there have been major protests. Has it been different outside of Europe?

Also, when France and Spain prevented Bolivia's presidential plane from flying through their airspace because Snowden might have been on board it kind of showed that they are still in America's pocket even with their bitching about spying.

Don't get me started on Obama...

[Cobra951]

Snowden is looking less like a traitor and more like a champion, no?  That would be a 180 for me.  These things need to be exposed, and I see nothing wrong with doing so anywhere, even Russia and China.  As long as he continues to reveal such information freely, and stays away from legitimate national security secrets, he has my blessing.

[Xessive]

I don't get why US citizens would consider him a traitor; he revealed that their government has been lying to them.

[scottws]

I don't consider him a traitor.

[Cools!]

Last time I saw a poll on it people were almost 50/50 on the subject. The traitor argument mainly rests on the fact that the information he revealed might compromise America's relationships with other countries or the potential that he may have leaked some specifics to the governments of China or Russia.

[gpw11]

I thought it was 50/50 from polls on Bradley Manning and far less thinking Snowden is a "traitor". My exposure to opinions on this is probably pretty slanted though.


But honestly, I think in either case you're not going to get any sort of change by government resolution, a change of leadership, or just exposure. I think the only way to really make a difference is to let the government know who's really in charge - the people.  There needs to be a shakeup, and people need to be held accountable, but in addition to that, there needs to be swift consumer action taken against companies (like Microsoft) who have made it very clear that they are more than willing to hand over information that their consumer base trusts them with without a fight.

Because really, government agencies are going to try to do this, and the first line of defense is making sure that the guys holding the keys to the servers are more worried about the public's reaction if they hand the keys over than whatever the government can do without drawing attention.

[Cobra951]

. . .

But honestly, I think in either case you're not going to get any sort of change by government resolution, a change of leadership, or just exposure. I think the only way to really make a difference is to let the government know who's really in charge - the people.  There needs to be a shakeup, and people need to be held accountable, but in addition to that, there needs to be swift consumer action taken against companies (like Microsoft) who have made it very clear that they are more than willing to hand over information that their consumer base trusts them with without a fight.

Because really, government agencies are going to try to do this, and the first line of defense is making sure that the guys holding the keys to the servers are more worried about the public's reaction if they hand the keys over than whatever the government can do without drawing attention.

And to agree with Scott, that probably won't happen.

http://youtu.be/5yB3n9fu-rM?t=10m46s

Ironically, before this story, I would have ignored anything Snowden had to say.  Now I have to recommend that entire video, not just the snippet I'm jumping to.

[gpw12]

And to agree with Scott, that probably won't happen.

And here's the shitty thing about that:

It only makes things worse. The public not knowing about something and the government getting away with it is one thing,  but exposure without serious blow-back or backlash is something else entirely and it sends a powerful message that really only encourages further and more blatant violations.

[Pugnate]

Please stay in character GPW*12*

[Cobra951]

And here's the shitty thing about that:

It only makes things worse. The public not knowing about something and the government getting away with it is one thing,  but exposure without serious blow-back or backlash is something else entirely and it sends a powerful message that really only encourages further and more blatant violations.

Yes.  Exactly right, and something that feels like a nightmare to me.  Evil gets exposed, the evil smiles and waves at us--"yep, we bad!"--and we do nothing.  I've been seeing this creep up for years.  Scandal, uproar, no action.  Bigger scandal, less uproar, no action.  And so on.  This cannot end well for the people of this country, the same people who continue to do nothing.

[Cools!]

Yup, step by step we are allowing all our nightmares to come true.

[K-man]

Something happened. Maybe this is just the shit world we live in and all of this is necessary to prevent Bostons and 9/11s?

Except this didn't prevent either.  And the Boston bombers were about as boneheaded as you can get.

I understand, of course, that most of these policies were enacted post-9/11

[idolminds]

EFF is on the case.

[Quemaqua]

I don't think Snowden is a traitor either. This is why I've been spending a lot more time with activism-related stuff of late. Lots of protests coming up. I believe the next big one is the March Against Corruption in November, which I think may be international. People are really starting to get fed up with this bullshit. Can't say I disagree.