Author Topic: Forza 2  (Read 3422 times)

Offline iPPi

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Forza 2
« on: Tuesday, June 05, 2007, 02:36:06 PM »
So, has anybody gotten the chance to try it out yet?  The reviews are coming in and they are pretty favorable.  Unfortunately, sim racers are really not my thing, and I didn't really enjoy the first one all too much.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, June 05, 2007, 05:25:53 PM »
I picked it up today.  I haven't played it yet, though. 

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 01:38:45 PM »
OK, first impressions.  Very-high-quality sim.  Load times suck, but the reason for them seems to be to set up absolutely everthing up front.  There is no hitching or dropped frames during racing.  Very smooth high frame rate always.  The simulation seems to be quite thorough.  4 tires are modeled, which believe it or not, is not always the case.  (The old shortcut is modeling one tire, with pivoting around the car's center of mass.  I think TDU does this.)  The cars' behavior is believable.  For details, I recommend the Gamespot review.  It seems to cover my experience with it pretty well.

I never played Forza 1, so I can only compare FM2 to the Gran Turismo games.  I'd say that it does quite well in that company, with much superior graphics all around.  Cars and drivers are modeled in great detail.  Strangely, there is no cockpit view.  There are 2 chase views, hood view and bumper view.  I prefer the hood view anyway, although I'd really like access to max realism (i.e., in the driver's seat).  Other than this, I have no complaints about the driving views.  In fact, the game options offer one mind-boggling possibility: connecting 3 X360s somehow to provide a wraparound 3-screen view of the action.  For the gamer who has everything, there ya go.

The controls feel very good, much better than TDU's.  They are versatile, even allowing for dead-zone adjustments of all analog controls (triggers included).  Steering input corresponds to tire response always--none of the infuriating lag found in lesser input algorithms (such as TDU's).

As with the GT games, there  are a gazillion cars available.  These are split across racing classes, and can jump from one to the other with upgrades which are at least as varied as in the GTs.  The more adjustable parts you add to your car, the more you can tweak it for each individual race track.  I have stayed away from this so far, since unlike GT, I can't find an easy way to do pre-race test runs.  I think what I need to do is go to each track for free runs, from another menu option.  That's indirect and confusing, so in that sense, GT comes out way ahead.  The cars also have a performance number which can vary greatly within each class.  I guess the object is to maximize that number for whatever class you want/need to use, without going over (which would bump the car one class).

As the review points out, the backgrounds are somewhat sparse.  But they're not bad at all.  I definitely prefer steady high frame rate over lush scenery any day, so I can't complain.  There are lots of spectators jumping, hooting and hollering, so it's not like they were hurting for headroom in the unnecessary niceties department.

Unlike TDU, this is strictly a racing game.  There is no map to freeride around between the race tracks and events.  There isn't even a map, period, which GT has.  All you get are menus with all the different racing places, restrictions, and options.  You can choose to be based in North America, Europe, or Asia.  This determines what cars will be available to start, and which need to be unlocked.  As with GT, there is a career mode and an arcade mode.  Career is what you would expect.  The incentive for arcade is to unlock a lot of cars by winning races.  Those cars can then be used in that mode and in multiplayer.

One final complaint is that the instant replays kinda suck.  There is very little in the way of fixed external cameras.  Most of the choices are different close views of your car, which you can rotate with the right stick during the replay.  The auto mode is hit or miss, usually miss.  With such lovely car models and high-quality display in general, this is a real pity.  You can save all replays, as in GT.  I've already eaten up about 40 MB of HDD space with these.  You can also take still pictures from a replay, and upload them to the game's website.

That's about all I can say at this point.  TDU offers more overall immersion and fun.  For serious racing, FM2 does a much better job.
« Last Edit: Friday, June 08, 2007, 04:27:32 AM by Cobra951 »

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #3 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 08:13:44 AM »
I found out today that the top-100 on the leaderboards in each race get their replays uploaded for anyone to see.  This is way cool, especially since I'm in the top 100 in these 3 race series:

Amateur
Big Block Shootout
Boosted Shootout

Manufacturer Club Races
quattro Club

What I did is use a car in the R1 class that has no business qualifying for those, yet it does somehow.  The only real challenge is to lap the field without wasting too much time.  Obviously, I'm not competing against the AI cars here, but against real humans who also discovered some cars that have no earthly reason to enter these races.

I know at least Scott can go watch my replays.  Quick, before I get bumped off.  I already have been in a few of those races.  (I was in the top 100 in all of them at one point.)  Go to each race series (in a car that qualifies) then press 'Y' to go into the  leaderboard.  If you toggle the display, you'll find the "friends" list.  Or just scroll down till you find me.

I also like how you can also go watch recent multiplayer races from anyone in Forza Motorsport TV (under Multiplayer).  This game does an awesome job of taking advantage of Xbox Live.

Edit:  Scott, Ed, you guys have to quit using automatics.  You get so much more control by being in the right gear at the right time.  Sometimes you want to redline, or even smack up against the rev limiter.  I highly recommend the 2nd controller setup, which uses 'X' and 'A' for shifting.  (Nothing else changes, except 'B' for hand brake.)  'X' and 'B' is a retarded option, and I'm surprised it's the default.
« Last Edit: Monday, June 18, 2007, 08:53:39 AM by Cobra951 »

Offline scottws

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #4 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 09:07:50 AM »
I really like Forza 2.  Much better than GT because it does practically everything GT does, except it gives you even better customization and actually acknowledges that superchargers exist.

My favorite car right now that I dominate with is the Shelby Cobra GT500KR.  I have it maxed out, and it's pretty sweet.  I easily toast all the cars in the Big Block Shootout and the Mustang/Camaro rivalry races.  I have all the TC, ASM, and ABS turned off so this thing can be a beast to drive since it's really easy to overload the rear tires, but I've gotten pretty good at driving it.  I also have a '99 SVT Cobra-R I maxed out.  This thing is way more powerful than the GT500KR but it's also practically impossible to drive.  It's even easier to break loose.

The most ridiculous car is the Lingenfelter Corvette.  I haven't maxed this one out, but I did apply all the max updates in the suspension and tires sections, and it is flat out ridiculous.  I can't even get it to go straight on tracks like New York.  Even at something like 140mph you can't press the gas in all the way or you'll be sideways.

I absolutely loathe the manufacturer races.  I just don't find those fun at all.  I also didn't like the heavy-car race at the end of the Proving Grounds.  It was so hard after getting used to driving some fairly nimble cars.  I'll admit that it was an interesting concept though.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #5 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 12:34:50 PM »
The game is known to be too quick to break traction with RWD cars (compared to real life).  This is why I feel no shame at all in using the traction control aid.

I'm no fan of the fully stock races either.  Some of those cars absolutely suck in stock form (like the Tuscan and the 427 Cobra).  There is a bit of an exploit I found:  You can upgrade to lighter wheels, which won't give you much of an edge, except that you'll go to the front of the starting lineup (because of the highest PI).

I want that '99 SVT Cobra R, but it's still locked for some reason.  I'm in the Europe region.  Maybe that's why.

I just blasted into the top 100 in all 3 races in the Inline-4 Showcase (under Amateur Cup Races).  I'm #7 in one race and #5 in another!  I cheated a little, though.  I downloaded the leader's Lotus Exige setup, then fully upgraded mine, and applied it to my car.  He worked it out, and I stole it.  Shame on me.   :-[

Offline scottws

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #6 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 01:35:45 PM »
I don't have the patience to mess with all those suspension settings.  I just lower it all the way and play with the final drive ratio from race to race depending on the kind of track it is and what speeds I expect to hit.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #7 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 02:19:34 PM »
I have the patience, but not the understanding.  I have no idea what changes to spring rates, rebound, roll-bar stiffness, etc are going to have positive effects, or why.  I do understand what downforce does at higher speeds, and that getting more in the front or rear is going to give you more or less neutral handling, and why.  I also understand that biasing the torque in the central differential toward the rear is going to partially cure the horrendous push AWD cars tend to have under acceleration.  More negative camber in the front, less in the rear tends to give you less understeer (or more oversteer) but I don't have much of an idea how much is too much.  I read that you should use the telemetry during a replay to evaluate such things, but all I see are a bunch of disparate numbers fluctuating wildly.  They don't tell me much of anything.

You should try a TVR Cerbera Speed 12, maxxed out.  That thing flies, and it's controllable (for me with my traction control anyway).  The Maserati MC12 handles a lot better, but the Cerbera is so quick that you can take the turns in more leisurely fashion, and then open it up.  If you are having too much trouble with the RWD cars, and refuse to use the traction control, give the Lamborghini Murcielago a try sometime.  It's a sweet AWD car (which was a surprise to me, since I was sure it was RWD).  It just needs a little help in the setup to cure some of that push.

Offline Antares

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #8 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 02:55:58 PM »
Glad to hear someone else is loving this.  I've been playing like crazy for about two weeks now, my only complaint is that the menu system seems like it could be better organized.  I wish I could see what cars qualify for a race whether or not the car I happen to be in qualifies.

I was having a mother of a time controlling some of the RWD cars as well.  I had a Mustang GT souped up to like 900 horsepower and couldn't keep it on the road to save my life.  Finally I purchased the FORZA rear wing and adjusted the downforce to about 3/4 the way up the slider.  Traction  improved dramatically.  The extra drag does limit the top speed a bit so it takes some toying to get the best setup.

I've been having a hell of a time comming up with a setup for the A-Spec race in the Semi-Pro series.  I've tried with an Audi Quattro and a Ferrari 430(?) but can't seem to come up with a setup that doesn't get blown out of the water.  Any suggestions?

Offline iPPi

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #9 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 03:22:08 PM »
Are you guys playing it with the steering wheel?

Offline Antares

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #10 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 03:33:37 PM »
Just the controller for me, and I'll say the analog trigger is the best thing to happen to console racing in a long time.

Offline scottws

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #11 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 05:31:00 PM »
Not I.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #12 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 08:54:45 PM »
There is no A class race under semi-pro.  You mean Pro or Regional.  I used the Guldstrand Corvette massaged to A850.  The top of the leaderboard seems to favor the Honda NSX-R, in case you can't check online for yourself.

I use the controller, 2nd setup (with 'X' and 'A' for gear shifts).  I totally agree about the analog triggers.  This is so much better than using the 2nd stick for analog throttle & brake.

Offline Antares

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #13 on: Monday, June 18, 2007, 10:46:05 PM »
I'll give one of those a shot.  My problem has been that changing out the tires bumps the rating up like crazy so I've been sliding all over the place with the crappy stock tires.


Thanks for the wheel trick with the factory spec races, starting in front and the tiny edge you get in top end speed makes those races much easier.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 06:23:43 AM »
Glad to hear someone else is loving this.  I've been playing like crazy for about two weeks now, my only complaint is that the menu system seems like it could be better organized.  I wish I could see what cars qualify for a race whether or not the car I happen to be in qualifies.

That really bugs me too.  Most of the time, I'll switch to a car that doesn't qualify, so I get the list.  There are other things that bug me more every day.  The replays from external cameras are shockingly bad.  After all these years of good replays from the GT games, and so much effort put into FM2, you would think that this would be covered in some competent way.  Load times are terrible.  This makes the problem of not being able to practice and tune before a race that much worse.  In order to do what you could do in the very first PSX Gran Turismo, you need to see what track you're racing on next, back out all the way to your car in the menus, then select "Tune car", select "Test Drive", and then select the track.  Then you do it all again in reverse to go race.  Load times make this process a real chore.

Tires have too much of an impact on PI.  For class races, I try to get away with stock or the next step up.  Soft-compound slicks are unaffordable.  If you can't out-drag the competition, you're at a huge disadvantage on most tracks (and too many power mods are sacrificed for the stickier rubber).  Try using downforce to compensate.  The Forza aero kits are well worth it.

If all else fails, you can set the AI difficulty to "Easy" for a particular race.  (Don't forget to set it back the next race.)  This will give you a huge advantage.  I wish there was something in between hair-pulling frustration and a breeze, but not so.  Most of the time, "Medium" is beatable without a lot of effort, but in some of those races, particularly the higher class-limited ones, it can kick your ass repeatedly.

Edit:  Heh.  I got an 87 rank on the Pro R3-class Sebring race.  After I watched my replay, I fell to #88.  Ferrari F430.  You can't mod cars in this class, so it's always close (at medium difficulty anyway).  If anyone cares, watch it.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 09:50:11 AM by Cobra951 »

Offline K-man

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Re: Forza 2
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2007, 11:39:10 PM »
This game has owned my life since release.  And its made much better with the inclusion of the force feedback wheel.