Topic: Pro Gaming - Your thoughts?

[gpw11]

I was just reading Time Magazine and they had an article on Pro gaming (as well as an interview with Fatal1ty...which answered a lot of questions for me becuase I was wondering why it said that on motherboards and sound cards).  They're saying that this shit is about to blow up and all that jazz.  Fatal1ty has endorsment deals and a bunch of other shit, while whatever pro gaming league it is has deals with Bell or some digital cable provider for a chanel.  Some other league just got a bunch of money in venture capital (and to a magazine writer that's pretty much the same thing as taking the world by storm).

Now, I'm not worried about it because I don't think this is going anywhere (if I were to guess I'd say it was at it's peak right now or in the very near future), but if it were I'd be worried about it.  Nothing good can come of this.  The entertainment value is pretty much non-existent (at least for me), and it could bring with it some very bad things. 


Think about it, an entire chanel dedicated to this.  There's what, like 6 tournaments a year that actually net any money? I have no idea, but how are you going to fit in 24 hours of programing?  You're going to have to set up more tournaments I guess with smaller prizes.  That's fine, but then you think about it, what games are they going to use?  I mean, it would get pretty boring watching some guys play either Quake Wars or Unreal Tournament 3 for the next 4-5 years, so they'll have to switch it up.  These guys all play DM, I don't know why, but they do.  Here's my train of thought;

This gets popular, and they need more tounraments, then they're going to need more games to play to keep it interesting.  These guys all play standard FPS death match games, and they're going to want to stick with the big names.  Game companies are aware of this, so there's a bit of pressure on them to release games that could possibly be used in tournaments for more exposure, sales, blah blah blah.  So, four years down the road I could be in a store looking at the game shelf and it's all cookie cutter FPS games with mediocre or standard single player and really, really polished MP deathmatch gameplay (but stellar graphics because hey, you need eyecandy for the spectators).  Fucking boring.  And guess where more of the budget is going?  These games instead of anything new and a bit different, because Fatal1ty isn't going to want to compete in Dues Ex 3 Co-op (lets assume Dues Ex 3 is actually good).

Then there's the hardware side of it.  Think of it like the sneaker market in the late 80's and 90's.  It all starts out good.  Air Jordans are expensive, but you buy them because you know they're quality (fuck yeah...those lasted forever).  Next thing you know it's 5 years later and you're looking to build a PC.  You've got the Fatal1ty soundcard and case, the Pwnzer1 ATI/AMD GPU/CPU combo, the L3thal Chick HDD and Ram, and oh fuck...it costs 3 grand.  Well, maybe I should just get a Dell or build it with non-endorsed parts that are probably going to melt.

A little far fetched?  Perhaps....but I still don't think any good can come of this.   

[idolminds]

Depends on how its "displayed" to the public. Televised Starcraft tournaments are shown on TV in Korea and seems to be fairly popular.

The thing is you need to have games that can be interesting to watch or have interesting gameplay to follow. I predict a lot of "realism" games will be chosen. Its like the difference between showing Company of Heroes vs Dawn of War. While they are fairly similar in gameplay and structure, CoH has the advantage of people knowing whats what without it being explained. They know what a squad of guys with M1s is, they know what tanks are. And there are only 2 sides. Try explaining that "No no, THIS game the Orks and Tau are on one team..even though they were enemies in the last match"...and WTF are Orks and Tau? Not good for TV. You'd spend all your time explaining.

I still loved the shoutcasts of Tribes. So much excitement, the whole thing sounded very much like a radio broadcast of football.

Games that will do well will have some specific features. Demo recording and editing. Sports are easy to show people because all the action takes place in an open field. How do you catch the action of 16 people ducking in and out of buildings? So if they can record a match and then edit that demo to show certain areas when cool things are going on it'll be much better than showing it live and the "cameramen" not knowing where to go at any time.

EDIT

Hmm...showing "live" games could work with a delay and a little setup. Have dummy clients connect to the server to act as cameras. Set these cameras to certain parts of the map...have enough to cover most of the play area, and several angles of the important parts (like near the flags and chokepoints). Then you have people monitor the cameras and switch to the cool stuff.

[scottws]

Personally I don't think there is anything to worry about.  Like you said, DM is lame and there is no way there is enough content for this to actually provide lasting entertainment.  And I don't think many gamers even like pro gamers.  Like I think Fatal1ty is fucking lame.  Whenever I see some add for a product with his name on it I just roll my eyes and mentally file a note to never ever even think about buying something like that.

I don't think it's because he's popular.  I just think it's companies grasping at straws, trying to create a demand or a market for something.  But I think it won't be long before they realize that it was just a waste of money.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah.  Fatal1ty isn't popular.  I've never met a person who owned one of his products.  It's just another marketing thing.  I don't anticipate this blowing up any time soon, either.  There's zero interest almost across the board except for the few obsessed people who are super into the whole scene.  But they aren't nearly enough to drive anything like a TV channel.  Gamers on the whole have only just barely managed that, and the channel we got sucks balls.

[Pugnate]

I know so many gamers yet I know no one who likes or even dislikes Fatal1ty. Everyone is quite indifferent to all of this. He is a great fragger, but how exciting would this be?

Also GPW I agree with you on the 24/7 channel. How can they keep that interesting? Not to say I wouldn't want it. Maybe they need a presenter, how about Que?

edit:

Fixed final sentence.

[gpw11]

Thank god I'm not the only one not onboard.

As for the presenter...I don't think it would help.  I was assuming they had a big ass staff and it still wouldn't be all that interesting. 

[Quemaqua]

The games themselves and the methods to present them just aren't there yet.  They're so fast paced it's nearly impossible to get a good view of what's going on, and there isn't a particularly good way of making the viewing experience compelling.  All the focus has really gone into making it something fun to participate in, and while there have been mods and spectator modes in games for years, it's a very different experience than watching something on TV.  On TV you need your content to be properly captured to maintain a decent level of quality at all times, and it really isn't possible to do that in games yet, mostly just because the games move too damned fast.  And while I'm a huge fan of DM in general, I don't think it's really interesting enough to watch with the way games are played now, and team games are done in such a way that you can't really appreciate that whole team aspect properly.

So yeah, much work needs to be done.  I don't see this becoming anything even resembling a success for many years.  And honestly, I'm not sure I'd even want to watch it anyway.  I don't really care about watching FPS players.  I care about playing.

[idolminds]

It could be done with a lot of heavy demo editing. You can slo-mo parts and condense a match down to the important parts. Even get fancy with camera angles and such. You could make it very presentable.

You're right...DM would be boring as hell. Team games are where its at.

The other hurdle is the personalities. In sports you have people, and since they are athletic they at least look ok. I dont really see some fat keyboard jockys on trading cards, ya know? You'd need like custom models and skins for each player to make them stand out or you'd end up having to explain who is who in every shot.

[Pugnate]

I was thinking that they wouldn't be showing matches 24/7. They could show other programming focused on gamers, but really how much can they show? I enjoy watching GAMER TV but that happens once a week. There just aren't enough games.

I've seen some matches that I've found interesting to be honest, and with some clever editing and commentary you can make it interesting, but there just isn't enough material to work a 24/7 channel.

As for the presenter...I don't think it would help.  I was assuming they had a big ass staff and it still wouldn't be all that interesting.

I should have phrased that better. I was suggesting Que could apply as a presenter, but then I realize it wouldn't work out.

Que: Hi everyone! Tonight we are going to watch that fucking useless retard Fatal1ty death match in Half-Life 2. Isn't that going to be *fun*?

Producers: *sigh*

Actually that would be interesting. I'd watch it.

You're right...DM would be boring as hell. Team games are where its at.

You are right. They were showing some Counterstrike matches, and as dull as that game is, the tactics used were interesting.

[idolminds]

Just look at cable news stations. Sure, news happens all the time. But whenever I turn one of those stations on they're like talking about anna nicole for 4 hours at a time.

PS, forget PC games other than CS being aired. It'll all be Halo or GoW or something.

[Ghandi]

If they can show poker on T.V. and actually get viewers and make it halfway interesting, they can show anything. They will have a hard time at first to get enough content, but if it becomes popular then the content will increase, since there will be more matches because of the popularity.

I couldn't care less about Fatal1ty, but the whole tournament scene is fun if you are involved. I was involved a little bit in the Halo 1 tournament scene, and it was loads of fun, although mostly because I went with my friends. It kicks ass to win money from playing games. I won $80 in one tournament. 

[gpw11]

I have to disagree to a point.  While you wouldn't think Poker was a spectator sport before it was being pushed hard, it was always something interesting to watch.  There's a lot of dynamics going on there.  The same could be said for gaming I supose, but all I know is that the second I get taken out of the game  find a new server.  If I'm playing poker I'll often sit there after to see where it goes.

Honestly, video games are probably the worst spectator event I've ever come across.

[Ghandi]

My point was less about the activity itself and more about how they marketed it. If you ever watch the poker shows you see how they mix in interviews with the poker players, the fan interaction, etc- half of it isn't even the poker, its them interacting. I'm sure they will find a way to make it interesting. Even still, I disagree about poker being interesting. It's so bloody boring to watch.

[gpw11]

That's just because you don't like to crunch stats in your head....oh...yeah, you win.

But given the choice between watching poker and watching someone play a videogame, I'd pick poker.  Watching someone play an fps is like watching a rock grow.

[Quemaqua]

Heh, I feel that way about poker.  Most boring thing in the fucking world to watch.  But then, I'm not super into poker, which is probably why.  I mostly just like to watch the people interact while they play.