Topic: angry with politics

[beo]

i'm aware that this is a very broad topic for discussion, and may be a bit too open and pointless, but anyway...

i get the distinct feeling that pretty much everybody is growing more dissatisfied with our political institutions. i'm trying to work out why this is. i mean there are so many reasons - but why, if everybody who pays the slightest bit of attention, is so pissed off, does it remain the way that it does? have we simply reached the pinnacle of what is capable in a modern society, and we just can't push any further - or are we just too lazy / scared to instigate change? is it just a case of that you can't please everybody all of the time?

when i speak to most people about politics, there is nothing but contempt for the government - if the government are truly working with our best interests, where is all this venom coming from?

anyway, how and what would you change if you were given the chance? what laws or systems would you bin, and what would you introduce? what really pisses you off?

[WindAndConfusion]

This totally breaks my "no more posting in ST" rule, but here goes (PS my list of reasons is very Americentric):

• The debate never advances. If politics was about trying to make good decisions, then we wouldn't still be "arguing" about whether MDMA puts "holes in your brain," or if homosexuals are all secretly child molesters.
  
• Most reporters don't do any research, and they will never call you on your bullshit. You can say something that's totally bullshit, and chances are you can keep saying it, over and over again, until it becomes a Hermann Göring-esque "truth."
  
• Our media, like all our large corporations, is consolidated and in-bred beyond belief. Six large conglomerates (Sony, Disney, Viacom, General Electric, News Corp, Time-Warner) own:
  
  • All six major movie studios.
    
  • Three of the four major broadcast networks. ABC is owned by Disney, NBC is owned by General Electric, and Fox is owned by News Corp; CBS, the only "exception," is owned by the same guy who owns Viacom (Sumner Redstone).
  • Two of the four major music labels (Sony & Time-Warner). (I don't know who owns Vivendi and EMI, but I wouldn't be surprised if it got back to these same companies through some convoluted paper trail.)
  • Most every cable channel in the US.
  • Many newspapers.
    
  • Lots of other shit I don't know about.
  I don't think this is a conspiracy; I think it's just a fluke of economics that led to this situation. And I don't know how much influence these conglomerates exert on their subsidiary companies. In any case, the result is that a surprisingly small group of people control what most people see, hear and think. Seriously: how many people learn everything they "know" about nuclear reactors from watching TV and movies? How many of those people use this "knowledge" to make political decisions?
  
• Most politicians are ignorant, incompetent sociopaths.
  
• Most voters are ignorant, incompetent sociopaths.
  

[scottws]

Good analysis there Wind.

I took a class called Implications in IT.  It really was an ethics class the way the guy taught it.  Anyway, he was from Iran and always talked about how awesome America is compared to everyone else, and that we don't like it because we're jaded and haven't seen what it is like in a lot of other countries.  He's partially right.

But he also said shit like our current government is set up so that if we don't like it anymore we can just overthrow it, that is what the 2nd Amendment was for.  Does this guy really think that our government is just going to be like, "Ok lets make a new one," or that a bunch of rednecks and thugs are going to go up against our Army, National Guard, and Marines?  I don't think so.

Anyway, I think that a lot of people are scared of economic collapse.  Sure, their government is horribly corrupt and clearly is not ruled "by the people, for the people" anymore, but hey they make pretty good money they can buy DVD players and cars and houses and plasma TVs and iPods and Blackberrys with.

[Quemaqua]

Good points on all counts.  I have little else to add, and am too tired to do so anyway.

[WindAndConfusion]

Good points on all counts. 

The fuck is wrong with you, you bleedin' moron?! You're supposed to get mad at me!

Anyway, I want to add an item to my list: No one knows what problem a given "debate" is supposed to address. To wit, the war on drugs.

Some people have a philosophy of "harm reduction." Some people (libertarians, especially) don't think the the government ever had the right to ban drugs. Some people believe drugs are an unmitigated evil and must be stopped. Some people believe the war on drugs is an unmitigated evil that must be stopped. Some people think the current approach to drugs is more-or-less correct, because drugs really are bad, mm'kay? Some people want to get high. Some people want to get elected. Some people believe in life in prison for all heroin addicts, but they also believe their little oxycontin habit is nothing more than a "personal demon."

Most people are members of more than one of those groups.

[Ghandi]

Good points all around. I'd like to address in the original post this:

but why, if everybody who pays the slightest bit of attention, is so pissed off, does it remain the way that it does?

I think the reason is, at least in America, that people really don't care if something doesn't affect them personally. That is, they don't care enough to go out and vote. That's why it's so easy for incumbents to get re-elected. The majority of Americans don't give a shit about global warming, if they stop driving so much it's because of high gas prices not environmental ethics. And really, the fact is, the candidate with the most money generally wins. Have enough airtime and lie  enough and people will vote for you.

As far as the war on drugs and the groups that you mentioned Wind, the war was never meant to address any of those philosophies, it was as political as anything else. The whole point was to stop the cartels, the hippies, the violent crime that subjugated the drug use. And then, obviously, the lobbyists who control congress on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies have had the opposite effect. The debate will inevitably turn into such a debate, I agree, but we aren't there yet.

[Cobra951]

I guess we pretty much agree that the American government has become wholly corrupt.  My brother, the lawyer, blames it on a Supreme Court decision which gives corporations carte blanche to lobby and throw money at the government.  It's free speech, don't you know?  Other lousy decisions have opened the way to horizontal and vertical monopolies.  The money and power is in the hands of the elite few.  W&C already touched on how this affects one crucial aspect of a free society: the media.  (See the 2nd post in the thread.)  Small interests have absolutely no chance anymore.  Respect for individual citizens is vanishing.

Scott is right.  A bunch of rednecks with AKs won't overthrow this government, ever.  It needs to be something more akin to V for Vendetta (if I may use a commercial media product to save a lot of typing time).  The populace needs to unite under the cause, and simply stop following the orders of the few in power.  Everyone marches into the public gathering places, and refuses to obey outside orders.  At this point, the armed forces, comprised of brothers, sisters, sons, husbands, will have to make a very hard choice.  My feeling is they will stand down, and then turn their weapons around the other way.  This won't happen with any current adult generation.  I have vague hopes for the future.

[Xessive]

I like that we all agree on the matter.