Author Topic: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG  (Read 2200 times)

Offline Quemaqua

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Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« on: Friday, November 14, 2008, 08:12:12 AM »
So there's been a little talk of this game in the HolyCrapLotsaGames thread, but I think I've played it enough now to say that it most certainly deserves its own.

I'm about 5 and a half hours in, and I can firmly say that the defining characteristic of this game is its addictiveness.  I believe it's fair to say that after staying up way, way past my bedtime with it two nights ago, to the point where I was so tired I quit and forgot to save the last mission that I did (and then wasn't at all bothered about it when I realized it last night and had to do the mission over), this game has me pretty hooked.  I was expecting to find the drama stronger and be more attached to the story and art style, and while those things are great, I'm surprised at just how much I enjoy the core gameplay.  It's fun, and while it's definitely very tactical and feels like a strong military game, it's got enough SRPG stuff in it to make it feel at home being lumped in with the rest of that crowd.  It's a nice blend of the two, feeling realistic at times, but also feeling pretty ridiculous and over the top.  The same seems to be going for the story; though that's generally a bit more grounded in terms of the drama, it's just... more fun than realism.  You get to ride around in a tank designed by the main character's adopted sister's father, and then when he's drafted into the militia, he ends up being with his friends, commanding the squad from the tank, which his sister drives.  It's all just so... amusing, but in a good way that makes you smile.

Anyway, the graphics are absolutely stunning, and the music is very, very similar to FFXII, which is both good and bad (and mostly good for other people -- I find it funny that many didn't like FFXII's OST that much, and yet this extremely similar OST is garnering a lot more praise, which goes right back to why I felt that FFXII's brilliant OST was snubbed for very poor reasons).  But not just that, the design is really great.  There are 50 different character that you can recruit for your squad, as I understand it, and each of these has a unique model, name, and traits.  And while I'm playing with Japanese voices that, unfortunately, aren't subbed when they have radio chatter and stuff on the battlefield, I've recognized these characters refer to each other by name, including people who aren't main characters.  That's attention to detail is what that is.  Very cool.  The game also has a ROBUST sort of encyclopedia thing that tracks characters and weapons and a glossary of terms, which fits snugly in with the rest of the game's "check it out, I'm a book!" interface.

I just realized I'm running later for work than I thought, so I'll have to finish this up later, but for now I'll say that if you like SRPGs or tactical military stuff (and aren't put off by the anime style), this is absolutely worth your time.  The demo only gives a very limited taste of how good the combat is, since it's only a generic skirmish outside of the game's first setting, and things get a hell of a lot more interesting only a battle or two in from there (and much more long and involved).  I don't think you'll be sorry if you grab this right off the bat, especially with the promise of DLC to come (we hope!  they got it in Japan), and this should make PS3 owners really happy.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline gpw11

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #1 on: Friday, November 14, 2008, 05:07:31 PM »
I hate you :(

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #2 on: Friday, November 14, 2008, 08:40:21 PM »
Most people do.

So I can't find tons of good screens, and I don't have time to scour the entirety of the internets, but a few are at least in order.  Also, for the purposes of this new thread, IGN is the only place with a video review, which gives you a decent look at the game despite not showing anything overly exciting.

So: the game has guns.  You shoot them at dudes and they die.  But it really isn't actiony at all, despite some of the comments I've heard here and there.  When you actually control your characters, nobody else is moving.  It's much like moving a chess piece across a board, or like having your little demon guy run five squares in Disgaea, whatever.  But the comments are right in that this game is different, if not drastically.  The difference is that since you're using guns and this is a tactical wargame in many ways, covering fire is being laid all across the map, so anyone that's moving around in range of an enemy unit is getting shot at.  If they're in range of several enemy units, they're really getting shot at.  If they're in range of a tank, they're... fucked.  But it makes things much more urgent than your average SRPG because you can't sit around and check everything out leisurely.  You've got the overworld map:



And that map is what lets you plan your tactics and watch them evolve.  But select a guy on the map, and you run down into the third person mode where you start moving around and doing stuff.  I really do like the whole firing system, because it does give you a decent feeling of urgency during the proceedings, and an approximation of return fire in what's otherwise not so different from a turn-based grid-counter.  Also, when you fire at somebody, they get a chance to fire back.  So after you've gone into the shoot mode, lined up your shot (everything pauses there), and taken your shot, your target will get a chance to blindly fire back if you didn't kill them.  So the return damage may make it suicidal to use a unit for offense if their health is low, since the return fire could kill or otherwise compromise them.  And since actual movement draws fire from covering enemies, that's another consideration.  It's all well and good to run up and gun somebody down, but if there's too much cover fire, you may not be getting back out.

And as with any good cover mechanic, being outside of cover can get you killed fast.  Cover makes you "immune" to headshots even if you get shot in the head.  I.e. you just take a regular hit instead of super damage.  It's a bit of an abstraction since you can be on the outside of cover rather than behind it, and while this doesn't help body shots, it still protects your head.  Which isn't so bad, I guess, since you're ducking and at least in a pose that indicates you're trying to lay low and make yourself less of a target.

Anyway, the different classes all have different combat and movement ratings, not to mention armament.  You can see a few different roles here:



The dudes with lances are... uh, lancers.  Basically rocket jockies.  These are your primary anti-armor units (other than your own tank, obviously), and a couple of them can take a tank down in 2 or 3 turns, or immobilize them with a well-placed shot.  Shocktroopers like the chick up front make up the bulk of your regular assault, since they have OK movement ratings and pack a mean punch against infantry when up close (though the MG fire spreads too much to make them useful at a distance).  I'm not sure if the other guy is a scout, but I'll just say he is.  Scouts have really high movement ratings and are highly mobile compared to nearly everything else, and they aren't useless in combat either.  While they will die very quickly under sustained fire, their weapons actually have much less spread, making them highly useful against single targets, or even small groups if there's sufficient cover.  Not pictured are snipers and engineers.  Snipers are about as slow as lancers, but in good positions can pop guys with instakill headshots regularly.  Engineers are sort of your general jack of all trades, being almost as good as scouts in combat, having movement nearly as fast as scouts, and being able to fix your tank and distribute ammo just by brushing against your troops.

I mentioned the graphics being pretty, but they really are.  They use a technique that you'd think would be used more often, but really isn't.  Especially not this well.  The last time I actually remember seeing it was on a PS2 game called Stretch Panic, and while the effect wasn't exactly the same, it was fairly similar, only being applied to that game's main hub level and nowhere else (a huge disappointment to me, as it was easily the coolest-looking spot in the entire game).

For historical purposes:



But we've come a long way, and this game really knows how to properly go for the sketchy look.  It doesn't use it everywhere, in fact, but mostly just in the shading.  It really drives the game's premise that you're sort of reading a book (I mentioned this elsewhere, I think, but the entire menu system is basically a book, and even as you're playing the game and watching the cinematics you actually manually select them as though you had decided to "read" an entry), but the fact that it isn't done in excess gives everything a convincing physicality.  Whatever... all I really need to say is that it works and works well.  Also, the sketchy thing isn't the only thing.  There's a painterly sort of feeling used somewhat frequently as well, like for skies or stuff in cutscenes that's supposed to be distant.



So a pretty wargame is all well and good, but you'll also notice that it's a pretty wargame full of pretty girls.  Which is a little disconcerting.   There are lots of guys in there too, but I noticed last night that I have a rather large roster full of attractive women.  And what's better than a game with guns, tanks, and explosions?  A game with guns, tanks, explosions, and pretty girls.  But no, seriously.  Like I mentioned earlier, it's shocking how much attention to detail there is in the characters.  50 side characters, and all of them look different and seem to feel different.  I can't imagine that extends very far, but the game does what it can to make you feel like there's more to it than perhaps there is.  For instance, each character has "potentials" that can come up during gameplay.  Some are more comfortable around men or women, some are loners, some like to be beside their friends, some are allergic to pollen, some hate dirt, some are claustrophobic... you get the idea.  There's a ton of these, and people have them in different combinations.  I don't know that you have to pay close attention to it, but the fact that it's there is cool, and the game does a good job of telling you when these things come into play.  Some also act like abilities, where you'll fire at a guy and a big thing comes up saying "Undodgeable shot!" or something like that.  It helps you get a feel for your characters as you play with them, which is fun, and the fact that they all have different people they like to work with is neat also.  I'm not entirely sure how that works, other than when someone has the trait that they like to be around their friends.  In that case, their accuracy and such improves when they're standing near people they like.  But I don't know if everyone can eventually get that trait, or if there's any other innate benefits people receive.



Anyway, it's cool that the sub-characters aren't throwaways, and the fact that they have animated, voiced introductions (just a greeting, introduction, and salute, really) when you pick them from the roster in the command room is a cool touch that makes them feel much more significant.  I like that.

I got a chance to listen to the soundtrack more today, and I'm fairly impressed with it.  As I mentioned before, it is at times too similar to FFXII's OST, at least for anyone who spent a lot of time listening to it.  If you haven't, though, you're in for a treat.  There are also a number of more unique tracks that all stand out as being very well done, and overall it's quite listenable stuff.  Not as unique as, say, Vagrant Story, but high quality and very much in line with the game's themes.  Except for the pop track.  I haven't heard it in the game, but damn I hate when they throw that pop shit into an otherwise-solid OST.  FFXII had that Angela Aki travesty composed by Nobuo Uematsu in one of his more questionable decisions, and this has some other thing sung by somebody named JUJU.  Meh.  Whatever.  I heard a rumor that one of the characters in the game actually sings, which is... uh... I don't know.  I'll reserve judgment until I see how its handled, but I suspect I'll be running for a Slayer CD post-haste.

Anyway... that's about as thorough an overview as I can give.  Hope a few of you decide to give it a try.  It's clearly an essential PS3 release at this point.

EDIT - Oh, and as a side note I should definitely mention that this game has all the usual JRPG trappings.  I know that's obvious to most, but some people might get the wrong idea.  I mean, this isn't a straight-up wargame without the other usual considerations.  Like the sort of overt character themes, sappy stuff, broad strokes for villians, a rather ridiculous animal mascot, etc.  So there's lots of that kinda' stuff, and also tons of dialogue and cutscenes that sometimes go on too long.  Don't let the military theme fool you into thinking that this is any different in those regards.
« Last Edit: Friday, November 14, 2008, 09:15:02 PM by Quemaqua »

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Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #3 on: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 09:38:53 PM »
So I have updated impressions.  This game was fun until I got to mission 7, then it got stupid hard.  I'd explain the details, but that'd be kinda' spoilery.  I guess.  Not really, but... still.  Basically, just when I thought I had the thing in the bag, a scheduled but unanticipated occurrence ripped it from my sweaty hands.  Then when I battled through and thought it was over... it wasn't.  And some crazy bitch ran through the map and one-shotted all my dudes until it was all over, and I almost managed to pull through with a hair's breadth, but no, at the last second it all got yanked away again and I watched the last hour or so go down in flames.

Now, the problems are several.  Firstly, this mission was a huge leap in difficulty over past missions.  Secondly, it was a little poorly designed in a couple of regards despite overall being totally awesome.  But thirdly, and this is actually the biggest thing, it was mostly my own fault because I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU CAN SAVE THE FUCKING GAME IN THE MIDDLE OF A MISSION.  Yeah.  So had I saved prior to the big change, things wouldn't have been so bad.  I could have gone back to the middle of the mission where I would have saved, then used my advance knowledge of the latter events to minimize or at least shrink the damage a bit.

And it's obvious I'm not the best at this game.  I generally get Cs and Ds coming out of missions, so my grasp of all the game's mechanics must be lacking a little.

Anyway, the bigger news is that the English dub of this game is surprisingly good.  Better, in fact, than the original Japanese.  I know!  But I'd been playing in Japanese and lots of people had been saying this, even guys who are die-hards that never listen to dubs.  But the original actors play the characters as straight anime, making the main guy kind of an unlikable weenie who just seems like he's either trying way too hard, not trying hard enough, or just a spaz.  I mean it isn't like this stuff is terrible or anything, it's just played very straight, using the archetypes you've come to know and probably get real sick of.  The English, being competently acted, offers a wider variety in character on the whole, and while a couple of them I like less, for the most part the dramatic parts ring infinitely truer than they did in Japanese.  I don't like Ellet, the war correspondent chick, as much as I did in the Japanese, but her English voice is actually a lot closer to what you'd sort of expect a caricature of a war correspondent from the 30s to sound like, whereas in Japanese she's just... hyper Japanese chick.

Anyway, I was working out earlier and just had the TV on replaying all the old cutscenes and episodes to see if I liked the voices, but I haven't actually gotten into a game yet.  With the switch, I'll actually be able to hear the radio chatter and stuff that isn't subbed.  That'll be nice.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #4 on: Monday, November 17, 2008, 04:34:40 AM »
It's a pretty game for sure. I love the art style, it looks like everything was drawn and coloured with pencil crayons. The demo gave me a good impression but when I tried out the full game I quickly realized it does not do it much justice. Sure it exposes you to thge basic gameplay mechanics but it omits the story and plot elements along with the scale of larger battles (and the level of choice you actually get to make in picking your battles too).

I'm kinda torn between this and Eternal Sonata. I can't decide if I want a tactical RPG or a classic RPG.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #5 on: Monday, November 17, 2008, 07:19:36 PM »
I suck now.

Four years ago I would already have this game (even if haven't payed it yet). It's right up my ally and something that I've been interested in since I heard about it.

I suck more now.

Two years ago I would have picked up the game today after playing through the demo over the weekend and decided that everything was pulled off well enough that it wasn't worth missing (even if I didn't play it right away).

I really suck now.

Yesterday I decided that the demo sold itself really well, but I just can invest myself into something like this like I could before.

It makes me sad.

Offline TheOtherBelmont

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #6 on: Monday, November 17, 2008, 09:28:18 PM »
Hopefully I'll be getting this soon, the demo already sold me.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #7 on: Monday, November 17, 2008, 10:48:02 PM »
So you CAN save during missions?  Because that's something that would make or break a game like this for me and I probably will end up getting a PS3 at some point, mainly for this.  I mean, Shining Force may suck now, but at least it looks like SEGA has something.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #8 on: Monday, November 17, 2008, 10:54:27 PM »
Yes, you can save during missions.  Helpful because some of them are quite long.  Also, the game has the usual RPG depth of replayability for completionists.  There's hidden stuff to unlock, different encyclopedia entries and stuff to fill out (the character bios don't stay at a single paragraph -- over the course of the game you can do things that will make them grow and get more detailed), and I believe a New Game + mode.  I think in order to actually unlock and fill out every last thing in the game you have to play through it 3 times (though I think the 3rd run is basically just for a couple leftover things that don't matter that you have to make a choice between in your 2nd run).

And yes Sy, you make me sad too.  I understand your reasons for avoiding things, especially now that I'm as broke as I've ever been, but... still.  Sad.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday, December 09, 2008, 09:34:59 PM »
Can't...stop....playing...

Offline gpw11

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 01:49:59 AM »
Goddamn it.  How much are PS3s now?  Besides that, how easy would it be to hook one up to an LCD monitor so I don't have to go and buy a television at the same time?

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 01:58:40 AM »
They are dropping in price, and honestly the PS3 is the only console to buy right now. It took awhile to develop a library of games, but it is a pretty great console to have right now with everything that has come out. And more is on the way. And I say that having never really used the PSN (other than a brief stint with COD4 online, which was awesome).

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 07:09:49 AM »
Yeah, what he said.  Fuck the 360.  That broken paperweight isn't worth the lead-free solder gallows it built for itself.  I'm quite pleased with the steadily-growing PS3 library.  There are a few low points where developers didn't spend the time properly learning to develop for it, but now most devs are better informed and figuring out how to get more from the system, so that's becoming an infrequent occurrence.

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Offline iPPi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 03:47:23 PM »
I really want to pick this up from what I've seen.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 04:57:08 PM »
The dialogue in this game is just silly. It doesn't bother me or anything, but it's pretty over the top a lot of the time. And I'm also pretty sure that it's impossible to get an "A" from a mission. I've gotten plenty of B's but no A's.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 06:16:03 PM »
Doing Japanese or English Ghandi?  I think I said somewhere earlier that the English is actually, and quite surprisingly, a much better fit for the game, and while still not particularly grand, seems infinitely better than the Japanese in some unquantifiable way.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 08:19:26 PM »
English. It's not terrible it's just...really really happy and cheery for the middle of a war. Well, everyone except for Isara who is the most terribly depressing character I've ever seen in a game. 

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 09:10:03 PM »
Yeah.  That's why I said the RPG trappings feel strange.  Too-peppy characters and animal mascots really get in the way of the wartime feel.  It's definitely odd that way... but I think the good points in the story make up for it.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 09:16:27 PM »
Yeah, and the gameplay also more than makes up for it. Just finished doing a couple of the skirmishes. I was a little disappointed that they just reuse the maps from the main story mode. And for the most part the enemies are in the same locations as well.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 10:25:19 PM »
Yeah, that's another disappointment.  Supposedly there's going to be some DLC for it, but I don't know that it's going to help the issue.  It's also kind of a bummer that you can't replay every story mission to try and get a better score.  But I guess that's what New Game + is for, or whatever they call it.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #20 on: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 06:58:23 PM »
I love the versatility of the game - there are a ton of different strategies you can use. I just did a desert mission (Mission 6, I think) and I went with a strike force entirely of scouts, a few snipers, an engineer and a tank. Basically I pushed my scouts along the left flank while the snipers covered. I diverted a few scouts to take a middle base so that I could redeploy my snipers there and they covered my scouts while they went for the main base. Took 5 turns. My tank was just a diversion for the 4 other tanks in the middle, and I left a good deal of the enemy alive including all the tanks.

Now, the downside is that you get experience for killing units. But I also got a decent grade because I did it so fast, so I got more experience for that. No clue which way works out better.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #21 on: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:32:14 AM »
Well I felt your frustrations with the 7th mission my first time around, Que. That blue chick ran up next to the ladder that I was supposed to climb up, and getting anywhere near her is suicide. I actually had a scout running all the way across the map from her and she shot him twice and killed him while he was running. It was dumb.

But the second time I ended up having a much easier time. I beat it in 8 turns, and this was actually the first mission that I got an A on.

Offline iPPi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #22 on: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:39:14 AM »
I tried out the demo and it definitely seems like it could be a lot of fun.  I'm not 100% sold on it yet though.  Is the game more than just battles/skirmishes?  Is there exploration, towns to rest in, or anything like that?

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #23 on: Friday, December 12, 2008, 02:54:25 AM »
If you mean freely running around then no. But there is a story to connect everything, and plenty of stuff to do outside of battle - get your team organized, train them, pick which soldiers you want, and there is plenty of useful info everywhere. But the bulk of the game is the battles.

It is what it is - I'm not quite sure that running around would really work within the context of the game.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #24 on: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:27:01 AM »
Woah woah woah.  The new PS3s don't have backwards compatibility at all?  Not even in software?  What the fuck is the point of that?  I'm certainly not getting one until I'm done with Persona 4 then...and that could be a very long time.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #25 on: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 01:02:18 AM »
No, there's no backwards compatibility of any kind.  I thought this was common knowledge like... months ago?

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Offline gpw11

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #26 on: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 01:04:09 AM »
Yeah, I do remember commenting something along the lines of "who gives a shit".  Apparently I do.

So, I guess the good news is that by the time I finish Persona 4 and possibly Klonoa 2 (should pcsx not run it properly by then), those 120mhz LCDs will have dropped quite a bit with the way things have been going.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Valkyria Chronicles - Saving Private SRPG
« Reply #27 on: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:14:31 PM »
When I got my PS3 I found it was actually cheaper to buy a PS3 + PS2 slim than get one of the PS3 units that had the backward compatibility.  A little annoying, but still not that big of a deal if you've already got a PS2.  You'll lose out on some space, but that's about it.  My PS2 was dying so I needed to replace it one way or another, but since it was cheaper to get both units instead of just the older/better PS3, I opted for the cheaper option.  I have no regrets.  With 2 gamers in the household it actually makes sense, since there'd be a much higher rate of fighting over a combined PS3/PS2, and much less if you've got each unit as its own entity.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野