Topic: Bladerunner 2049

[PyroMenace]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haXvp8M9Cog

Not sure how I missed this. I honestly wouldn't have cared if Ridley Scott was heading this but it's actually going to be Denis Villeneuve, who has done some really impressive movies as of late. I'm pretty excited now.

[Cools!]

I'm interested. Actually more so because of Villeneuve. Scott is a great director but I wasn't a huge fan of how Prometheus turned out.

[Quemaqua]

I think it looks great. I don't know why everyone is so down on Promotheus. It was as good as the better Alien films (except the first, of course, which is the best by a landslide), and substantially better than the shitty ones. Ridley Scott is all right. Villeneuve is a more exciting choice, though, for sure, and I really loved this trailer. Was expecting to be down on it, but I might actually go see this.

[Pugnate]

Because the characterization in Promotheus was really bad. I mean, it's fine if this was the 80s, but it felt really silly. Supposedly intelligent scientists acting like dumb fools throughout.

[Cools!]

I liked the visual style and the general idea of exploration and discovery of the origins of the aliens, but the plot and characters (like Pugnate mentioned) were just horrible. I did like David though because I like the actor.

I hope the upcoming Alien: Covenant is a better "Alien" movie, but just looking at the recent trailer I can already see it's going to be more like Prometheus in it's approach. Not quite like Aliens, but definitely not the atmosphere of Alien.

[Quemaqua]

To each his own, I guess. I didn't find the characters any worse than your average modern Hollywood film.

But yeah, none of the Alien films have been anything like the first. I love the first film, but all of them are disappointments by comparison. I was pretty into what I played of Alien: Isolation given how much it really nailed the vibe of the first movie. Wish I had more time to put into it.

Anyway. BLADERUNNER, HUH?

[PyroMenace]

I think it looks great. I don't know why everyone is so down on Promotheus. It was as good as the better Alien films (except the first, of course, which is the best by a landslide), and substantially better than the shitty ones. Ridley Scott is all right. Villeneuve is a more exciting choice, though, for sure, and I really loved this trailer. Was expecting to be down on it, but I might actually go see this.

I don't know why everyone is so down on Promotheus.

I DON'T KNOW WHY

Prometheus has been discussed on here many times before... except, it is THE most divisive opinion from you I have read. I would say dismissive, but I'm not going to assume that of you since you have written plenty of narratives to know what is good and what isn't and I do respect what you think of an actual story whether it be of a continuation of a hollywood film to novels. Now movie scripts you can take it or leave it, it won't match some of the best written stories or novels out there, be it dialogue or just pure imagination, I will vouch with you all the way on that. But in terms of just the art of film, Prometheus is EXTREMELY FLAWED, all of it being the WRITING. Not in comparison with other science fiction or books, but in movies of the past, specifically, previous work and any before it in the franchise. If that disagreement is the case, then I would be interested to hear your details about it because I can completely sympathize an opinion that will note a weakness of a movie but articulate of what is novel and how it stands out to make it favorite of a movie goer... accept when someone just says... I DON'T KNOW WHY.

The sequel of Alien was novel enough to earn itself a remake of fans to perform the whole movie on an ice rink, Aliens on Ice. I wasn't the biggest fan of Aliens either but I could tell you I enjoyed Bill Paxton screaming "GAME OVER MAN" and explain in greater detail why he was screaming it better than any character in Prometheus. I would also say the AI computer in Alien Resurrection, the worst of all the movies, had more personality than anything in Prometheus. Now if you were to say that "It looked great." ... and you enjoyed it, then this post wouldn't exist, except you don't know why... and now I need to know.

[Quemaqua]

I don't think the writing is that bad. It's not great, but like ... in what Alien movie was the writing ever good? It wasn't even good in the first one. If you're watching an Alien movie for the writing, you're doing it wrong. Prometheus isn't some transcendent piece of cinema, but it's hardly worse than most of the Hollywood tripe people generally watch without complaint. I really don't see why that particular movie was singled out for being "so bad". I don't even recall Alien: Resurrection getting lambasted that badly, and that movie is a pile of hot fucking garbage with virtually no redeeming qualities at all.

[PyroMenace]

Right but by your logic, I would argue that Resurrection is the best Alien movie from your standpoint. If you want to dismiss the whole thing as dumb horror movies, then Resurrection is actually the most aware of this and leans on that point 100%, that movie is basically a comic book, but at least it knows what it's doing. Prometheus attempts to actually make something more from all the movies and falls in just about every way. You can actually remove characters from that movie I wouldnt be able to notice, there are characters that are supposedly written as intelligent and logical people early in the movie, that literally contradict everything about themselves later. Obviously the writing is necessary, but it also has to work.

[Quemaqua]

I mean you have a much stronger opinion about this than I do. Nothing about the characters stood out to me the two times I watched it. Maybe I just didn't give enough of a shit about any of them to notice. But no, my logic absolutely does not dictate that Resurrection should be the best. I don't find that movie to be self-aware at all. It's just fucking bad. Bad acting, bad story, bad writing, bad concept. The first movie is no magical experience of deep characters and gilded prose either, but it's a really simple film. It's mostly pacing and atmosphere. Aliens is a simple action movie, and while it's pretty dumb, it had good effects and good action. Prometheus has a bit more of a serious tone, but it's a far, far better film than Resurrection, and in my opinion a lot more watchable than 3. 3 could almost have been good, but just felt sloppily assembled and bloated with too much stuff it didn't need. It's way longer than it needs to be, largely boring because of that, and doesn't have a good payoff for the effort. Prometheus certainly doesn't hit everything it sets out to, but I don't find it especially offensive. Probably because I don't revere the other films the way a lot of people do.

[PyroMenace]

I mean you have a much stronger opinion about this than I do. Nothing about the characters stood out to me the two times I watched it. Maybe I just didn't give enough of a shit about any of them to notice. But no, my logic absolutely does not dictate that Resurrection should be the best. I don't find that movie to be self-aware at all. It's just fucking bad. Bad acting, bad story, bad writing, bad concept.

Now I understand you. I'm not defending Resurrection, I was just explaining what it is. If you don't think that movie is self-aware, then watch it again. It is B-movie horror in the guise of Aliens. You can't tell me someone made an Aliens movie where a character pulls his own tongue out the back of his neck, and even gives a small pause in the scene to look at it before his demise, that yea, we are taking this seriously. Nah man, Resurrection has some dumb shit in it. I will say that it probably takes the silliness too far but keep in mind that Joss Whedon is mostly responsible for it. It's not the direction that most fans wanted Aliens to go, but he made something in his own vision, something horror and comical which is what his background is defined by. Also bad acting? Ron Pearlman is a gem in that movie, everyone else played the part well enough, it was just Sigourney Weaver's character that was strangely out of place but it was written that way due to the story, which again was a little more fantastical and cheesy horror than the rest of the movies on purpose.

[Cobra951]

The first movie is no magical experience of deep characters and gilded prose either, but it's a really simple film. It's mostly pacing and atmosphere.

The first film really was magical, if you put it in context with its contemporaries.  There was no precedent for it then.  Sci-fi films were just starting to graduate from the laughable to a serious genre with credible settings.  Its only real peers (iirc) were 2001: ASO, Star Wars (E IV) and Close Encounters of the Third Kind--none of which delved into horror.  Watching Alien that first time in a big theater was sort of transcendental, something way beyond the expected or imagined.  There is so much that it did right that it still works today.

[Quemaqua]

Oh totally agreed, Cobra. I love that movie, make no mistake. It just doesn't stand on the writing as its strength, and is a fairly simple thing by comparison to the other films, which try to weave a lot more stuff in. There's very little else out there like it, and it still holds up just fine. My favorite thing about playing Alien: Isolation was just basking in the atmosphere that felt so much like the film. In fact, I'd say that game is the 2nd best entry in the franchise.

And yeah Pyro, you could be right, I don't know. I watched Resurrection once years ago and all I remember is thinking it was dumb and not being entertained at all. I know Joss Whedon wrote it. I saw his name at the end and wondered where he stashed his talent when he was working on it, because it displays none of the wit or charm of anything else I've seen him do. Hard to say if that's really his fault. There are a lot of points it could have gotten lost in the transition from pen to screen, so who knows.

[Cobra951]

I think I posted that more because you triggered an old memory than as counterpoint to anything. 

[idolminds]

New trailer

Well, I'm down. Please be good, please be good.

[ender]

Saw the original on the big screen (third time on the big screen, probably 500 times in total) last night at the Dolby screen in Times Square. It never gets old seeing that film on a giant screen with insane Dolby audio system.

I'm going to see the sequel tonight. I'm excited... kind of shocked at all of the glowing reviews as I was someone who didn't want a sequel. However, Denis Villeneuve is a great director and glad to see Hampton Fancher back on the script. Of course, Roger Deakins shooting it is enough for me to go see it.

[idolminds]

I'm likely to go see this in theaters. My local one will be showing it this week so we'll see if I find some time to go.

[PyroMenace]

One of the most visually stunning movies I've ever seen. It can get a little drawn out in spots but I couldnt stop from admiring every scene, the look is just incredible. It definitely delivered, fucking great movie. On the drive back home I took the highways through Dallas and had the soundtrack turned up, so good. 

[PyroMenace]

[ender]

It's really great. I was a little taken back by how long it was compared to the first, but on a second viewing I found that it didn't bother me at all. There's a lot of stuff to unpack in this film and it holds up to repeat viewings very well. I love the vision of Blade Runner world 30 years later... it's kind of terrifying. Such amazing cinematography. I actually liked the soundtrack a lot too.

[Quemaqua]

I really want to go see this. This and It are the only things I've wanted to see in a while. Will have to see if I can convince my girlfriend to go with me.

[idolminds]

Saw it tonight. Its one of those movie that I think I'll have to watch several times to really appreciate and understand it. But I did enjoy myself and for as long as it is, it didn't actually feel that long while watching.

[Cobra951]

I like to acquire movies of an expected top caliber, even if I don't rewatch them much if ever.  I store them on an external drive, and keep them longterm.  This is the first time I can remember when what I thought was a definite shoe-in for my collection ended up getting deleted.  It made me feel a bit sick, like I was doing something wrong.  I rewatched a few key scenes that confused me upon first view, just to make sure I wasn't misjudging it, or missing anything before it was gone.

The whole thing felt like an exploitation movie, with dogged emphasis on cartoonish villainy.  The protagonists were little more than puppets on strings, or farts in the wind.  The visuals might have been impressive out of the incessant pea soup, but I'll never know for sure.  The ending was abrupt and unsatisfying, with the director continuing to toy with the audience's desires and expectations right till the credits roll.

Edit:  So, yeah, I truly hated it.  There were parts that were terrific, such as the "real boy, real girl" yearnings of certain characters.  But the main plot and what drives it could not have disappointed me more.  I kept thinking that it would eventually turn the corner, with all the time it gave itself to do so.  Nope.  Not to be.

[PyroMenace]

Definitely movie of the year for me.

[MysterD]

I thought BR 2049 was awesome.

And this was even without seeing the original Blade Runner - which, I know, I probably should've seen a VERY long time ago.

[scottws]

I loved (and still love) both Alien and Aliens, for different reasons.

Alien 3 is meh.

Alien: Resurrection is everything Que said: a pile of hot fucking garbage with virtually no redeeming qualities at all. Fuck Joss Whedon right to hell for shitting like this on the Alien franchise.

The two Alien vs. Predator movies were both pretty crap. Well, that's being quite generous for the first one. I liked the second one a little better even though it really screws with the canon of both franchises. A hidden message in both Alien and Aliens was that Earth would be absolutely and royally fucked if a xenomorph (specifically a single queen, egg, or facehugger) ever made it to Earth. In AvP2 they do and the consequences are basically quite limited. There's a Predalien (cool!). The Predalien throws the whole queen/egg/facehugger thing out the window and instead is both like an adult xenomorph and facehugger at the same time (dumb!).

I like the visual art of Prometheus, and like the movie well enough to have watched it a few times, but I admit there are many flaws. The really dumb behavior of the "scientists". The really bad makeup on Guy Pierce. The stupid and completely inconsequential reveal that whoever Charlize Theron's character is is Weyland's daughter (mostly because of the aforementioned poor character development). The fact that Charlize Theron didn't just run perpendicular to the falling spaceship. I was a bit disappointed because I was really looking forward to this one. And because I fucking want to know what that Engineer stuff said that David could read and never found out.

Alien: Covenant was a pile of shit. Well, maybe it isn't but I can't see through my hatred of this movie enough to provide anything objective. Ridley Scott obviously doesn't want to make movies about the xenomorph anymore and gave the studio a giant "fuck you" here when they basically forced him to make a xenomorph movie rather than a continuation of the story he wanted to tell about the Engineers.

And now, the titular and completely unrelated film: Bladerunner 2049. I loved it. Loved it to death. I've seen it like five times already. It does an excellent job continuing the style of the original film. It's a great movie to hear in a quiet room with great surround sound or even just a good set of headphones. Jared Leto does a kick ass job with his character. Such a unique manner of speaking. I think the only thing I didn't like was the main replicant chick saying "I'm the best one!" That was dumb.

[idolminds]

I just recently watched Alien Covenant so I can confirm that it is a pile of shit. I had to go rewatch Alien and Aliens just to get it out of my brain. Really sad what happened to that franchise.

Now I want to rewatch Bladerunner 2049. I only saw it once in the theater so it'd be good to see it again.