Topic: Zelda Breath of the Wild

[Cobra951]

Since Nintendo decided to release BotW on the Wii U, the CEMU (Wii U emulator) guys and their helpers have been busy.  The game ran at a low frame rate initially, but now with a decent game PC, it can be run at the same or better rate, resolution and graphic fidelity as the console.  Stability is excellent, and visual glitches rare.

The essentials:
- The game (duh), Version 1.30 or 1.31.  (Earlier versions work, but can't be poked into by an essential mod.)
- CEMU 1.10.0f (publicly available now)
- Cemuhook (latest) - this is where the magic happens
- Appropriate "graphics packs".  They're not graphics assets, but rather modified methods of dealing with them.
- Shader cache.  Essential for playability.

As with all Nintendo emulation since the GC, the shaders needed for rendering must be computed on the fly.  Without pre-caching them, the game will stutter horribly every time you look at anything new or even slightly different, until enough shaders are cached to smooth out the experience.  Some trailblazing gents have generously donated their time to playing through the whole thing, then sharing out their shader caches.  The one from BSOD gaming (see video linked further down) works well for me.  The first time I ran the game with the near-complete cache, it took 15 minutes to compile the ~8500 shaders.  Rarely, the game will hitch, and a new shader will get added.

Cemuhook plugs new methods into CEMU and specific games via patches which are part of the "graphics packs".  The star of this particular BotW show is one called "FPS++".  This removes all the frame limiting built into the game, and takes over.  The result is stable game speed irrespective of frame rate, which on a decent system will run between 25 and 40 fps in the open, and 60 in shrines and the menus.  (That's what I get anyway, after a couple of days of learning the ropes and tinkering.)



In addition to FPS++, I'm using a "Clarity pack", which un-washes-out the look of the game, but does depress the low-light scenes.  So far, I'm keeping it, with a bump in gamma in the Nvidia control panel.  I may go back to the standard low-contrast look.

Here is an excellent setup video.  It would have taken me much longer to get to where I am with the game without it.  I did not obtain the game as illustrated here.  There are other options, including dumping an owned copy from the actual system.  The only important thing is to have Version 1.3.0 or 1.3.1 of the game, or the (literally) game-changing FPS++ mod will not work.

BotW itself is so good.  Zelda to the core, pushed to the next level with some interesting gameplay choices.  Much has been added to the abilities and mechanics, not to mention the vast open world.  My biggest issue with it is the low durability of weaponry, though to be honest, it doesn't detract very much from the experience.  It seems they want you to be constantly trying out new clubs, swords, mops, skeleton arms, and what have you.  And you don't have much choice.  The mapping system is the most sophisticated yet, with the ability to place differently shaped stamps on the map wherever you want, and to place pins by looking at features on the map from a good vantage point, through the Sheikah slate (acting as a powerful scope).  Different sections on the map are filled in in a very Assassin's Creed way.

The paraglider is great fun.  Link can now climb sheer cliffs, walls and whatever isn't slippery (usually because of rain).  Weather changes constantly, clouds cast big shadows on the landscape, and the day-night cycle is just a little bit too fast.  I'm now off the plateau, in the 2nd town I've found so far.  I have gone through 6 shrines, I believe.  I've barely scratched the surface.



It was my daughter who brought her Wii U to my place during a visit not long ago, and got me on board with BotW.  We spent an evening with it.  Good times.  This is the same daughter who worked on the animated intro to Sonic Mania.  She's an artist and animator, and I guess that's my fault.  I've been into this kind of stuff for decades, and it rubbed off on her.  Anyway, have fun with whatever floats your boat, guys.  Right now, I'm at a high water mark with this one.

[idolminds]

Man and all I was using CEMU for was Puyo Puyo Tetris. I need to up my game.

[Cobra951]

I thought of you as I labored through the techie quagmire to get playable results.  We got similar systems at the same time.  The limiting factor is the CPU.  (Per-core speed is king.)  You can probably up the res and quality without affecting frame rate much at all.  AMD cards apparently handle shader memory more efficiently too.

[scottws]

Whoa, that looks fantastic!

[gpw11]

I've been interested in this but last time I checked my i5 4460 looked like it would run it kinda slow.  Are they increasing the speed of the emulator?  I know they're getting a ton of money thrown at them.  What are you running it on, because it does look awesome.

[Cobra951]

Quoting myself:

Cemuhook plugs new methods into CEMU and specific games via patches which are part of the "graphics packs".  The star of this particular BotW show is one called "FPS++".  This removes all the frame limiting built into the game, and takes over.  The result is stable game speed irrespective of frame rate, which on a decent system will run between 25 and 40 fps in the open, and 60 in shrines and the menus.  (That's what I get anyway, after a couple of days of learning the ropes and tinkering.)

The limiting factor is the CPU, of course.  This mod just lets it go as fast as it can up to 60 fps.  Running on the Wii U, the game is locked at 30 fps, unless the load is too much to maintain that; then it locks at 20 fps.  Without Cemuhook and the accompanying FPS++ mod, the game is locked at 20 fps, unless a hack is enabled (disables a fence between CPU and GPU).  The hack allows faster frame rate, but the game speed is all over the place (because of the uneven frame rate).  FPS++ stabilizes game speed regardless.

I'm running this on an i5 6500 (Skylake) at 3.4-3.6 GHz, 6GB GTX1060 (GPU loafs--not important factor, as long as it's not way obsolete), 16GB of 2133MHz DDR4, SATA III SSD for system, virtual memory and emulator, 7200rpm HDD for the game itself.  I don't know how your 4460 compares.  The main metric is per-core speed.  Number of cores doesn't matter.  Plenty of peeps run this with 8GB RAM and older CPUs.

They're still developing the emu.  Wouldn't it be nice if they could double the efficiency, or something like that.  As it stands, it's a good experience on my year-old middling hardware.

Oh, one more stat:  OpenGL 4.5.  I forget what the minimum version is.

[idolminds]

CEMU is pretty incredible. Tried out Mario 3D Land and Captain Toad and they almost feel like native PC versions. Run well, look great.

[gpw11]

Gotcha, I'll check it out!

[idolminds]

Got it running, and its pretty cool. I'm getting some graphics issues with shadows being kinda weird but that might be an AMD thing. There was a graphics pack for "AMD Shadows" and enabling that helped but theres still some weirdness. Framerate is about what you said, and the shrines are damn near perfect. If they add a Vulkan rendering setting I think I'd be able to play it really well.

[Cobra951]

Great!  Glad you got this to work for you.  I'm not sure what problem you're having with shadows, but if you get a sort of double vision, make sure you have the latest graphics packs, and the game updated to 1.3.0 or 1.3.1.  I didn't realize how important that is at first, because they do something unusual.  The important graphics packs are poking (writing) into the game itself at fixed offsets.  If the version isn't one of those, things break.  The version shows at the lower right of the starting menu screen.

I'm really impressed with the emulator too.  I've played the game every free moment for about 3 days now.  It hasn't crashed once, and visual glitches are very rare.  Today, I completely forgot it was running on an emulator, and just played for hours.

It takes some getting used to.  It's not as much a traditional 3D Zelda as I originally thought.  There are some "toys" which gain you access to new areas, but these don't feature nearly as prominently in the gameplay.  After not too long, you can go just about anywhere you want, and the only thing holding you back is the instant death from trying an area before you're strong/experienced enough for it.  Fights can get brutal, and short.  Game Over means game over--load your last save.  Fortunately, you can creep-n-save.  You will return right back to where you last saved, and the autosaves are frequent too.  Good thing, because you will die.  No punches pulled this time around.

Since fights don't gain you hearts or experience, and the rewards from beating most enemies aren't essential, I find myself slinking stealthily a lot, and just circumventing the most ominous-looking foes.  Elmer's-glued combat gear is no longer my biggest gripe.  God, does it rain a lot in Hyrule in this era.  I'm not a fan of weather in games, since it almost always makes them look like ass.  But it's even worse than that in BotW.  Rain restricts your abilities.  You can't climb for very long before slipping down, and off.  And you can't carry a lit torch, or pass the time quickly sitting by a fire (since they go out in the rain).  This may be an early plot-related thing.  (Yeah, I don't want to spoil anything.)  I hope once certain missions get completed, it won't be such a washout anymore.  And there are arid areas too--somewhere.  (Haven't gotten there yet.)

There are no classic dungeons either.  The shrines now serve a similar purpose, and seem to be the only source of added hearts and stamina.  Some of these are infuriating, but most so far are entertaining, and taxing in a good way.  I need to get a lot better at combat still.

[idolminds]

Yeah you feel pretty weak at the beginning. I had to do this quest where they needed me to kill some dudes. This was on the main path to Kariko(sp?) Village, seemed important. How hard could it be? It was 3 goblin dudes and that fight was hard. Ate all my cooked foods, had to munch on uncooked foods, and broke like 3 weapons taking those guys down. Game doesn't mess around.

The open world is fun because it does let you get around areas and enemies if you're willing to climb and do it. I've enjoyed the shrines so far, kinda like mini puzzle dungeons.

[Cobra951]

Kakariko.  You'll be eating those early dudes for lunch soon.  It ramps way up from there.  Wait till you try "A Modest [!] Test of Strength".  Oi . . .  I gave up after several attempts.  Will come back.  Later while exploring, I saw this centaur-looking guy in the distance, and he noticed me.  I hid behind a tall stone wall, and he still one-shotted me with an electric arrow.  He shot into the sky, and bullseyed me from above.  Some devs have been playing too much Dark Souls.    

That reminds me, fairies work as in previous games.  I had none during these encounters, or I'd have survived longer.  You don't need bottles to collect them.  Sneak up to them.  Mash 'A' as you get near.  Even if they look like they're up too high, you'll get them.

[Cobra951]

This has taken over my gaming time entirely now.  Huge and awesome.  Emulator works well enough to forget it with a few rare exceptions--a bit of hitching when a new shader gets added, artifacting of some reflective surfaces (fixable, but too uncommon to bother)*, a funny texture corruption sometimes after the (stupidly annoying) blood-moon cutscene.  This last one makes sun or moon glare look like skittles.  Going into a shrine and back out fixes it for me.

There's a new public version of Cemu out now, which improves performance noticeably, and fixes some bugs.  In Kakariko, the frame rate now stays close to 30, and can get even higher.  Even in Hateno during the day (the worst place for performance so far), the rate never dips below the mid-20s.  Out in the fields it's up in the 40s.  Shrines  and menus still pegged at 60.  (This is all with triple-buffering and vsync.  I can't stand the flagging/shearing with no vsync.)

The thing to watch out for with Cemu1.11c is that it completely changed where the save files go.  It's best to create a new folder for the new version, copy in the new emu and Cemuhook, then copy all the other stuff over from the old folder (saves, profiles, graphics packs, shader cache).  Run the emulator, change the settings to match the previous version.  First run of the game, the program will tell you that it needs to migrate the saves.  Once that's done, everything should work the same as before (only better).  Keep the old version/folder as a backup/backpedal spot.

11/12/2017
[* I have now fixed this.  Solution here for Maxwell and newer Nvidia cards.  (Will happily help anyone who wants to do this.)  It's related to a tiled rasterizer on the Nvidia hardware.  The Wii U's GX2 does not do tiled rasterization, so the game code is not written to avoid this sort of issue.  I was fine with the blocky artifacting on water, since it was rare and relatively unobtrusive.  But the lava in the Gerudo/Death Mountain region was just too ugly and distracting to ignore.]

11/21/2017
Another tech update I didn't feel was worth a new post.  I'm now using the 1080p graphics pack, even though my resolution is 768p.  Scaling the image down rather than up (from 720p) results in a huge boost in image sharpness.  I was floored.  It looks like a higher-res display panel, with much less artifacting in the image (nearly none).  Night and day!  It's a free upgrade too, because the emulator is entirely CPU-bound.  The graphics card is still loafing at about 25% GPU usage, max.  For some reason, this also seems to have taken care of some ugly texture corruption after the (never-welcome, too-frequent, gameplay-interrupting, ill-conceived) blood-moon cutscene.  The surface sheen from sunshine or moon glow would always become these squarish skittles.  That has not happened to me at all since this resolution change a few days ago.

So, really we're down to occasional shader-cache issues and poor mouse emulation of motion control.  Gyro can be done on a PS4 controller too, something I don't have.  That's probably a lot better.  The vast majority of the time, the game plays wonderfully well, and looks the part too.

[idolminds]

Ah, thanks for the heads up. I havent continued playing so much since the few bugs I do have bother me a bit. I'll keep up with the emulator and hopefully see the issues fixed. Zelda just feels like a game where I really want to savor it, so it'd be nice if it was a bit better than I can currently run it.

[Cobra951]

I feel the same way.  When my daughter was here not long ago with her Wii U and the game, I said the same thing to her.  After playing just a short while on her system, I knew I didn't want a poor experience with a slow, buggy emulator.  We talked about the PC emulation, how Zelda was running at 15-20 fps, and still had a lot of issues.  So as tempted as I was to get back to the game after she left, I held off.

Then some breakthroughs happened, and I got fairly lucky on the hardware.  The remaining graphics issues are mostly on the AMD side.  (I understand why you don't want to spoil the game for yourself with that falling short.)  My complaints are minor, and too occasional to dissuade me from playing.  I looked into what it would take to get a Switch and Zelda.  Too expensive for me now, and with my home situation getting rockier by the day, with my mom's deteriorating health and mobility, I fear this is the only way I'll get to play it in the foreseeable future.

It is a very special game.  I do want an official copy in a pretty box on my shelf.  I'll feel better about it when I get one too, with or without a way to play it.  If there's one console maker (and only one) that deserves my gaming dollars right now, it's Nintendo.



There are some things you can do on PC that you can't do on a console too.  Like, screw the ridiculously short durability on gear you work to get money and materials to have it crafted. 

And of course, mods:

[Quemaqua]

God that is sexy.

[Quemaqua]

Okay, so I'm ... not sure how long I've been playing this. Around 10 hours, at a guess. Is there somewhere on the Switch to check time played? I read there was but I can't seem to find it. Anyway, have played the game at home on the TV a bunch with joycons akimbo, and handheld around the house and at a coffee shop. I'm having such a blast. It's consistently fun and engaging, so much cool stuff to see, and the fluidity of play is great. Plus just great atmosphere. It's a beautiful world to wander around in.

Have been playing in Japanese and can understand enough to generally get an idea of what's going on and what people are talking to me about, though I certainly lose a lot of the details. There's enough obvious characterization in speech styles and stuff that I don't feel I'm missing anything, though. I hit my first roadblock yesterday at a pair of shrines that have riddles you need to solve to figure things out, and I couldn't understand enough of the Japanese to complete them, even though I totally get the idea. Will have to bust out a dictionary and figure out everything before I can get them. Then will probably move to the first village I was directed to.

Can't wait to play more!

[Cobra951]

I can't understand why the time played isn't shown next to each save file in the Load menu.  It is in the savefile (as I learned from a save-file editor).  According to this video, you can get it from your profile, though several comments say it won't work until after 10 days.

From what you said, I gather you're still on the plateau?  Riddles get more challenging as you leave the "nest".  Having a language barrier added to that will certainly make them more challenging.  After a while, you'll figure things out more easily, though, because you'll know instinctively how to manipulate different pieces of the puzzles.  However, the description of each shrine is often a helpful hint.

I'm done with my first playthrough, and well into the second.  The rule this time: zero cheating.  I overrode the durability system and gave myself unlimited normal arrows the first time through.  I still hate durability, but forcing myself to live with it has made me learn how to mitigate it to a great extent.  Arrows are still a pain.  I end up spending lots of money and wasted time tracking them down across the towns and other vendors.  They never have them in quantity either, so you have to hop around if you want more than 25 or so.  I'm so used to Zelda games making this a non-issue by throwing them at you whenever you run low.  Not here.

I think this is the kind of game we yearn for and seldom get.  The whole thing is stellar.  Except the weather.  God, that can suck.

[Quemaqua]

I haven't had any issues with the weapon stuff so far. They throw so many weapons at you that it's honestly been a non-issue for me. Whenever I'm low, I find five more, and whenever I'm flush, I'm dumping my weakest weapons for better ones. Same with arrows. I'll run low then run across a bokoblin camp and be pretty reasonably stocked again. Haven't felt the need to buy anything yet, though I haven't really found much to buy either. Just a few traveling trader types.

I've gotten off the plateau. Right now I'm right in the middle of that big ravine that runs between the two halves of a mountain on the way to the first town. I've climbed I think 3 towers? I've only gotten one upgrade, but I might be one off of another. So probably 7 shrines now. Have beaten three of the big rock dudes. Have yet to ride a horse, though I found a stable/inn place. Have found I think like 16 or so korok seeds. I've heard through the grapevine what they're good for, though I don't know where they get used.

Shrines are definitely tougher with the language barrier, as I generally can't read the names, at least thus far. I'll have to start prioritizing translating the riddles at some point. I've been taking screenshots of everything slightly out of my language range for study later on (the only way I could reasonably justify this purchase was promising myself to use it for practice as much as possible).

Girlfriend was over since Thursday, and I have to go with her to a party tomorrow, but after that hopefully I can dig in a bit more.

[Cobra951]

Dueling Peaks.  I guess you're well on your way. 

Yes, you get lots of weapons thrown at you.  The problem is that enemies keep getting stronger as you do, and after a while the crap you find randomly gets more difficult to use effectively, and it breaks in a fight or two.  The better stuff is harder to find, and it also breaks rather quickly.  This might have been a good design choice, if durability weren't so poor.  I can see a skeleton arm breaking after a few swings, but metal swords should last a long while.

Korok seeds do have an important use.  Finding what lets you pursue this use can be tricky.  Some people have said they didn't know about this until they were nearly done with the game.  Have fun!

[Cobra951]

Now done with my 100%-honest 2nd playthrough.  Durability ended up being not too bad.  I found ways to replenish good weapons from certain characters who drop them, and certain places that respawn them.  (Drops and finds are always in best condition.)  I also learned that, while you don't get a wear meter per item, the gear that is at 100% durability will sparkle continuously in the inventory.  The best thing to do is have several identical or at least similar weapons per category. then always use the same one among them until it breaks.  That way you can free up a slot for something new while still having several pristine items in reserve.  The sparkle is key to that.  And of course, there's the one weapon that restores itself not too long after "breaking".

Still hate the weather with a passion, where there's weather anyway.  All negatives and no positives to rain:  (1) Can't climb.  (2) Can't light a torch or fire.  (3) Can't use fire or bomb arrows.  (4) Can't pass time quickly, so you can be stuck waiting in real time for what you want to do next.  (Campfires extinguished, can't be lit or relit.)  (5) Ambient music stops.  (6) Visibility goes to shit with fog/mist.  (7) Game looks like ass instead of gorgeous.  Add lightning to that, and then: (8 ) must unequip all metal items, or get shocked to shit and drop them.

No other serious issues for me.  I've loved the experience overall, and will probably do it again, with some extras like amiibo items, and whatever cheats make yet another PT more enjoyable.  Awesome freeform Zelda game, story purists be damned.

Edit:  Forgot to include no cooking in my rain hate list.  No cooking-pot (wok?) fire, no culinary creations.

On the emulation front, CPU multi-core support is now available in Cemu 1.11.3, just released to the public today.  With 4-core CPUs, the dual-core recompiler seems to work best, while on 6-and-up-core CPUs, the triple-core option best maps PC hardware to the original system.  My frame-rate boost is dramatic with dual-core, up to around 50-ish in busy places from 30-ish, never dropping below 44 yet.  Out in open fields, the 60Hz vsync'd limit gets hit quite often.  That's with the emulated CPU in lockstep with the emulated GPU--which is needed for the game to work completely correctly, but does impact the frame rate.  Some people with fast i7s are hitting over 100 fps now with unlocked frame rates.

[Quemaqua]

Nice. I'm still plugging away here and there, but no real time lately. Not sure how much time I've got on it now. Got to Kakariko village and talked to the bigwig, and sorta got the lowdown on things. I understand enough to get by, so I have at least a vague sense of what I'm supposed to be doing. Have upgraded my hearts once and stamina twice. Tons upon tons left to explore.

Really don't mind the durability stuff at all thus far. Always have weapons. Don't really mind so much about the weather. I find the cooking thing irritating in general because I haven't found a way to just start fires yet without finding something already lit. I assume I'll eventually find an item other than fire arrows, which I'm sure as shit not going to waste on that.

[gpw11]

Just waiting to finish Mario to jump into this.  You guys have me pretty excited.

[Cobra951]

About lighting fires, these aren't really spoilers, but if you want to figure out absolutely everything on your own, don't read.

(click to show/hide)

You can draw a bow with a normal arrow, hold it drawn, walk up to a lit torch or anything on fire, light it, then shoot at whatever you want to set on fire.  You can also hold a bundle of wood and a piece of flint, drop them, and strike the flint with a metal weapon.  There are torches to pick up all over.  They work as melee weapons, but don't use them in combat.

So you got a Switch too, gpw?  Nice.  Kinda jealous.  I'll be curious to know how these hold up over time.

[gpw11]

Yeah, I made the splurge just before Christmas.  I recently also bought a PS4 but what the hell. Enjoying the hell outta Mario currently.

[gpw11]

Soooooo...should I buy this DLC? Just on my way to the first dungeon and I'm loving this game.

[ren]

I'm also switching between Mario Rabbids and Breath of the Wild. I'm only 4 or 5 hours in so far but I am loving this game. It's my first one since Wind Waker so I've been in big Zelda withdrawal. I hope Nintendo releases the Wii Zelda games for Switch

[Cobra951]

Make it the Wii U versions of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (plus the Wii's Skyward Sword).  What a lineup that would be.  Is it too much to ask also for a worthy port of OoT?  I  doubt I could stay away.

[gpw11]

I'm like 86 hours in, all four Divine Beasts done.  I have two regions left to explore and I will do so before taking on Hyrule Castle but really, if I let myself go here I could probably take another 100 hours checking out the rest of the map and upgrading my armor, etc.  What an amazing game.