Topic: Xbox 360 impressions so far. Now with Dead Rising rant.

[Cobra951]

OK, I managed to hook up a long network cable from my brother's router to my 360.  Got a silver membership to Xbox Live, and a 1-month gold trial kicked in.  (No credit cards involved, so I know that won't be a hassle after it expires.  Just drops back to silver.)  In the process, a required update downloaded & installed.  Don't know what all it does yet, but I did notice some of the DVD-player software displays are now transparent.

Wow, there's a lot of stuff to get out there.  Videos, demos, TV shows, etc.  I've downloaded a few free things.  (Um, yeah, I ended up getting the HDD after all.  Que, you were right.  Should have gotten the premium package from the start.)  My gamertag is "HypnoticCoqui".  I'm going to have to track down all of you involved with this.  (Now where did I see people's tags posted around here . . .)

Edit: Quemaqua, hxcEddie, Mr Joshy (Scary), and Mr Jippi are what I've found so far.

[iPPi]

Yep, feel free to add me/us.

My Gold expires on the 13th, but I will probably be renewing it.  Gotta say, having Gold and being able to play online is pretty good.  It does suck that you have to pay, but I mean it's cheaper than say, World of Warcraft.

[Quemaqua]

Except that they shouldn't be charging for it at all.

You're welcome to add me, but I have no router and have to swap my plugs and cycle my modem every time I want to use Live, so... I never use it.  Unless I hear that a game has an update or something.

[wizall]

OK, I managed to hook up a long network cable from my brother's router to my 360.  Got a silver membership to Xbox Live, and a 1-month gold trial kicked in.  (No credit cards involved, so I know that won't be a hassle after it expires.  Just drops back to silver.)  In the process, a required update downloaded & installed.  Don't know what all it does yet, but I did notice some of the DVD-player software displays are now transparent.

Wow, there's a lot of stuff to get out there.  Videos, demos, TV shows, etc.  I've downloaded a few free things.  (Um, yeah, I ended up getting the HDD after all.  Que, you were right.  Should have gotten the premium package from the start.)  My gamertag is "HypnoticCoqui".  I'm going to have to track down all of you involved with this.  (Now where did I see people's tags posted around here . . .)

Edit: Quemaqua, hxcEddie, Mr Joshy (Scary), and Mr Jippi are what I've found so far.

Add wizall, too, Cobra.

[Cobra951]

OMG, Lumines Live kicks ass.  It's close to the same thing some of us know, but the audiovisual experience rocks in HD, and I think the skins and music are better.  (I love the Mexican jumping beans one.)  I know the visual effects are better.  I can control it a lot better too.  I think it's the sheer size of the blocks and playfield.  (22" inch screen vs . . . what's the PSP's?)  I have no trouble lining up the blocks from above.  Whoever hasn't played Lumines on the PSP, give the demo a shot.

Speaking of demos, Assault Heroes is one of the few trial versions I found which is worth playing.  It happened to be the 1st demo I downloaded, so I thought, sweet!  The Live demos give you good play time.  Nope!  Everything else I tried until Lumines was way too short, little more than an interactive ad.

Wizall, I didn't add you before because I gathered from what you said that you didn't yet have the console.  So I thought maybe "Wizall" might be taken by someone else.  I'll add you now.

[poomcgoo]

Yep, feel free to add me/us.

My Gold expires on the 13th, but I will probably be renewing it.  Gotta say, having Gold and being able to play online is pretty good.  It does suck that you have to pay, but I mean it's cheaper than say, World of Warcraft.

You can get that free month 4 times total, the only thing is you'd have to make a new gamertag each time.  This is what I plan on doing, and then eventually jumping back to my original gamertag when it's time to pay.  My gamertag is "timota" for the time being, if anybody wants to play.

[iPPi]

Except your achievements....

[poomcgoo]

Yeah, those would get spread across the four gamertags, too.  I don't really care about achievement points or gamerscore anyways, though, so trading a few points for 3 more free months of live is a no-brainer for me.  Those achievement points always make me scratch my head.  They do absolutely nothing, yet people go to every length of the universe to get them.

[Cobra951]

Yeah, what the hell's the point?  I was initially under the impression that the achievement points could be turned into real value on Live.  Cash only for those points.

[Cobra951]

OK, I have to do this.  Here is a list of things I absolutely hate about Dead Rising:

(1) The double L-stick push roll move.  Did these people playtest their own game?  It's almost impossible to avoid accidentally rolling forward now and then, in the heat of the battle, and then being a sitting duck (squatting, actually) for a couple of seconds.  If you're carrying a special big weapon, like a chainsaw, you drop it, adding to the infuriating frustration.  A big fat fuck you to Capcom for this bullshit.  And no, it can't be disabled or remapped to something else.  This unbelievable design flaw is conspiring to ruin my opinion of the game, all by itself.

(2) When a weapon breaks, you pick up the next item on your inventory, which often is a snack or a drink.  Here you are, duking it out with a crowd of zombies, and suddenly, you're taking a leisurely long drink from an OJ bottle, which is at best a waste of  a health resource, and at worst a death sentence.  (If you don't finish the animation sequence before you get hit, you receive no health benefit from the drink.)  A slightly less fat fuck you to Capcom for that.  But still a loud and clear one.

(3) You can't walk and aim at the same time.  Oh, you can do it just fine with a camera.  But not with any weapons.  One of the saving graces of console FPS's is that you can fine tune your controller aim with freelook strafing.  Not here.  In order to aim and shoot, not only do you have to plant yourself out in the open, ready to get shot at without any possibility of dodging, but you also miss out on the sidestep aim control.  Bad move, Capcom.

(4) The save system.  While this is becoming less unmanageable as I get familiar with the layouts, it's still way too difficult to save your progress when you really want to.  If you need to quit in a hurry, you better be prepared to leave your system running until you can get back to it.  I'm working around the single-slot limitation by using both a memory card and the hard drive for saves.  But there is no good reason for this stinginess either.

There's so much right with the game, so much time that was obviously invested in its development and tweaking, that these flaws only seem worse.  They have no excuse such as limited budget or lack of other resources to see the good effort through.

[Quemaqua]

Huh.  I have absolutely zero issue with any of those things.  I can understand the double stick push roll, but it's pretty rare that I do it accidentally, and even rarer that such an accident actually causes me any harm, and the picking up the next item in the inventory is a non-issue to me given that I almost never accidentally use the next item.  I don't just pound buttons to the point that it's going to cause me to use something accidentally, and I pay fairly obsessive attention to when my weapons are gonna' break.  I have no problem with the third complaint just because I rarely find myself with a need to aim virtually anything.  Just doesn't seem like there's often a need for it.  Blind firing seems fine 90% of the time.  There are a couple of instances where I used it a bit, but they were few and far between and I didn't find the temporary lack of mobility to be a problem.  Usually if you're forced to aim, it isn't at a point where you're going to be taking tons of damage from doing so, and it was never too hard for me to swing the camera around real quick and take a shot, move, aim, take a shot, etc.  A few of the boss fights could be hard if you tried it that way, but I ended up going melee with those usually.  The save system aggravations I can understand, though they never affected me.  But I can still see why those things would piss someone off.  For the rest of it, I guess maybe our play styles just differ?  I don't deny that those things are present, I just never really saw them as flaws.  They haven't hampered me too much.

[Cobra951]

I can understand the double stick push roll, but it's pretty rare that I do it accidentally, and even rarer that such an accident actually causes me any harm, and the picking up the next item in the inventory is a non-issue to me given that I almost never accidentally use the next item.  I don't just pound buttons to the point that it's going to cause me to use something accidentally, and I pay fairly obsessive attention to when my weapons are gonna' break.

I don't see how you can prevent it.  I now try to keep the left stick all the way out against the circular edge when I'm fighing, and it still happens way too often.  I see the flashing weapon icons, and I know that they're going to break, but if I'm smacking my way through a crowd, it's hard enough without having to pause after every blow to see if that really was the last one.  How do you use handguns effectively without aiming?  One headshot kills most zombies (not the hard-hat dudes).  At least 2 boss battles so far really benefit from aiming.

[Quemaqua]

Well, using handguns against zombies is an exercise in futility unless you're trying to just clear some guys from a hallway and there aren't any behind you or something.  I basically never use handguns because they're just not that useful.  When I can go pick up a sword and slice through five dozen guys in the course of a minute, the usefulness of a handgun seems rather limited.  I'd rather just use a hunting knife than a handgun almost always.  Hand-to-hand is more fun to me anyway, so I guess I naturally gravitate to it.  Maybe you like guns more, in which case I can understand the frustration.  Guns just aren't that useful a lot of times (though having a shotgun around can be pretty great).  And again, I still don't see the double stick thing.  It just really doesn't happen to me much, and when it does it rarely causes a problem.  Don't know what to say about that one.  And I still don't see the issue with the weapons breaking.  Your guy pauses after the break before you can use the next item, so that should be enough time to stop any button punching and stuff.  At least, I feel like it should be.  It's been a while since I've played it, but I very rarely ate something when I was trying to go smashing guys.  Maybe for me it was just that when I saw a weapon flashing I'd just stop any plowing through crowds that I was doing and start maneuvering instead.  I'm really not sure what to say about it.  I think I just don't tend to go blowing through lots of guys when my weapon is near to breaking... I either switch to something else and finish breaking the weapon later when I've just got a couple guys to kill, or I just start running instead of fighting.  And yeah, a few boss battles benefit from aiming, but I never found it so bad that I couldn't make use of it.  All I can assume is that the circumstances in which you were trying to use it were different from the ones I was.  When I tried to use it I was usually safe from taking a lot of damage.  There are a few fights where you can sort of just stand in a safe spot and still get someone in your sights.  That, or you've got time to aim, take a few shots, then move.

Anyway, I can guarantee you that none of you have even seen the worst part of the game.  It's the very, very, very last boss fight (I stress this because you may assume the game is over when it is, in fact, not).  It's absolutely horrible.  Unforgiving and evil.  I died once, didn't want to do it again, and so the next time I basically had to use an exploit to get past it because I just plain couldn't do it.  *THAT* one I think Capcom deserves a giant fuck-you for.  It could have been a completely cool and cinematic fight, but it was just an exercise in frustration.  Fortunately, the exploit made it pretty easy to get past... just had to stand there for a minute while it did its work.

[Antares]

I bought my Xbox 360 today.  In the end I elected to go with the premium package without any of the bundled games.

I would also like to add: Fuck Wal Mart.  I had been shoping around the internet for a couple days to see if there were any bundled packages that I was interested in.  Most of the Bundles are $419 and include a game that would have been only $29 to start with, meaning you only save $10, but Wal-Mart.com has Burnout bundled with the system for $399, meaning the game would be free.  I wanted to get the system this morning so I could have the weekend to enjoy it, so I go down to the local wal-mart and fight my way through the throng of mutant sub-humans shopping there only to notice the only bundle they have in the store is Call of Duty 2.  COD isn't a bad game, but since I was planning to get GOW anyway I didn't want to start out with two shooters.  So, I go and ask one of the people behind the desk in the Electronics section, who proceeds to look at me like I'm a moron and tells me that "everything" online is different than what is in the store.  What the Fuck?  I decided to go to Best Buy Instead, thought briefly about going with the Madden '07 bundle, but decided I'd just get GOW and Oblivion with the Premium bundle, and enrole in the Best Buy Rewards thing and figure at least I'll get a $10 off coupon for my trouble.  Only snag... after fighting my way through the sales guy who was way too excited about explaining the difference between NFS: Carbon and NFS Hot Pursuit.... he tells me that Oblivion is sold out.  Whatever.  I decided to just go with GOW for now, and I'll pick up another game or two in a few weeks.

Anyway, After setting up the system, GOW looks absolutely fantastic in HD (not that I've ever seen it in SD) and I'm more than happy with the purchase.  I'm having BB installed in my house on Thursday (I've been leeching off a neighbor) so I should be able to check out xbox live then.

[PyroMenace]

Congrats Ant. Every time somebody gets one is actually driving me more crazy. Im trying to save for one, I cant take it much longer.

[Pugnate]

When a weapon breaks, you pick up the next item on your inventory, which often is a snack or a drink.

hahahahahahaha I spent half a minute laughing at that because I can imagine how annoying that would be, especially with the limitations in the save system.

Anyway I guess they got so many of those things wrong because they just aren't as experienced with these sorta games? A more experienced design team with an action game would have gotten some of these things right naturally.

But despite all the issues I keep reading about, I can't wait to play this. I will need everyone's advise on my initial approach when I first get the 360.

[Cobra951]

Hehe!  Yeah, it's frustrating.  But I'm getting used to it.  There's one complaint I forgot.  (5) You can't jump while on the "phone" (transceiver).  I guess putting your hand up to your ear locks up your knees. 

When you say they are less experienced in this kind of game, who would that be?  Capcom is a veteran.  Was this done by some new studio under their umbrella?

I played some more, and did better with the roll-forward problem.  I have to be very conscious of my stick movements, though, something which doesn't help immersion.  I got through the first 3 cases, for the first time.  Then I got swawrmed while hunting for an item underground, and decided to start one more time.  Hard choice, after the difficulty of getting through some of the required battles.  I'm at Level 18 now.

Don't know why I haven't even tried out GoW yet.  I really should.

[Pugnate]

Capcom doesn't really do third person action games and such, at least that's what I think. An American dev team experienced with third person actioners would never have gotten the basics wrong. Things like a proper save system, inventory and HUD stuff, aiming... things like that.

Something as simple as giving you the next powerful weapon in your inventory when a weapon breaks is a logical thing. Something an American developer would have gotten right.

Ridiculous decisions like not allowing you to jump while using a phone are only something I can expect from a Japanese developer.

Here is a list of Capcom titles in the past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Capcom_games

[Quemaqua]

I don't agree with that at all.  I've played plenty of American developed games that were far less competent than DR.  And again, those "problems" are fairly subjective, as I believe I have already demonstrated.  Plus the save thing I think was a raw design choice given the nature of the game, one that I think makes perfect sense given the nature of the game.  The other things I think you could perceive as actual problems, but I believe the save thing was a deliberate design choice done for a purpose.  You might hate it, but I don't think it was an oversight.  That isn't to say the game doesn't have problems... and yeah, I totally forgot about the stupid phone thing.  I *hate* the phone.  It rings all the time and won't stop until you answer it, and then when you answer it you're stuck sitting there reading the stupid fucking text until it stops.  That was a horrendous design decision.  That thing pisses me off no end.  It should have been audio so you didn't have to read text, and it should have been that you could continue to fight and use weapons and jump around and whatever while you listened.  Like... it could have an earpiece or something.  Whatever.  I hate that phone and I wanted to plant an axe into Otis's head a number of times.  Still, I think all the problems the game has are very small ones (aside from the text bug which blows for SDTV-using folks) and I think the strengths here more than make up for minor deficiencies.  Most games have little niggles like that, be they actual problems or just personal button-pushing type issues (which I think is more what DR suffers from given how a lot of the things that bother many don't even register to me as problems).

[Pugnate]

Yea I am probably pretty biased against Jap. developers. Nothing irks me more than the consolized menus in Jap. RPGs. As the Final Fantasy games roll out, they continue to be of high quality for those that like that sort of thing, but the menus look like complete shit. Why the hell do they continue to make the interface look like they were designed by a bunch of retarded monkeys.

[scottws]

IThat isn't to say the game doesn't have problems... and yeah, I totally forgot about the stupid phone thing.  I *hate* the phone.  It rings all the time and won't stop until you answer it, and then when you answer it you're stuck sitting there reading the stupid fucking text until it stops.  That was a horrendous design decision.  That thing pisses me off no end.  It should have been audio so you didn't have to read text, and it should have been that you could continue to fight and use weapons and jump around and whatever while you listened.  Like... it could have an earpiece or something.  Whatever.  I hate that phone and I wanted to plant an axe into Otis's head a number of times. 

Oh yeah, I forgot to bitch about the phone in that other thread.  I'm sure it was only because I hadn't played the game in several months and forgot about it.

[Cobra951]

Yes, definitely the phone is an annoyance, but nothing like the 1st 2 problems on my list.  Those continue to affect my enjoyment of the game seriously, despite all my efforts to get used to them.  I'm sure play styles enter the picture, but I'm very experienced, and I can't believe I'm the only one, by far, to hate Capcom for this.

Well, I just ran into this nearly bulletproof chick on an indestructible motorcycle.  This is not a boss I can skip either.  At this point, I'm considering throwing in the towel.  Any good cheats for this game?

[scottws]

As many complaints I have with the game's design, like Que I didn't really have trouble with those two things you are complaining about.  For instance that roll thing... I didn't even know you could do that.  Or at least I don't remember ever doing it or maybe I didn't ever "learn" how to do it in the game context.  As for your second point with the weapon breaking, I don't think I had that problem either.  I mean the weapons all broke really fast for me, but you kind of get stunned for a second and see the weapon falling down after it breaks.  Sure I had some frantics trying to get a weapon equipped at times, but I never accidentally used a health item or anything.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah... Find three specific books and put them in your inventory.  The combination of these books makes your weapons last like 48x longer or something like that (seriously).  Then just go the psycho clown area and equip all your remaining weapon slots with his chainsaw - you'll have to keep leaving and re-entering the area to do this obviously.  Note though that this makes the whole game significantly easier.  For instance I found that boss you're talking about to be complete cake.

[Cobra951]

I beat her now, twice, actually, since the next guy (which I also beat) was followed by a roomful of nasties, before any opportunity to save.  Real low blow.  This thing is addictive, but not in a good way.  I'm frustrated half the time, but I just can't put it down.  Meh.

I don't know what to say about the forward roll.  It simply happens to me, constantly.  I'm not double pushing, but then again, you don't really have to double push.  All you have to do while running is let go of the stick and push it again quickly.  I don't know how you play, but I'm very used to rotating the camera around while maintaining a fairly linear running path.  In other words, I coordinate the rotation of both sticks much of the time to run in one direction while looking around.  It's second nature to me.  I think what's happening is that it's interpreting the back-and-forth rotations on L as a double push.  Whatever.  Just because you haven't had this problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  The fact that neither of you had to deal with it makes it all the more frustrating of a situation for me.  I have to fight the problem and the perception that there isn't one.  It might even be a glitch in the controller response, but how the hell would I be able to show that?  Everything works just fine, except for this fucking bullshit.

[Quemaqua]

I think you just need to chill out about it and not let it hamper your fun.  If the game isn't fun for you, don't play it.  I mean, right?  I've heard others complain about rolling too, so it isn't as though you're the only person experiencing that, it just so happens that scott and I don't suffer from it.  I mean, I don't know what it is we're doing different, but obviously there's something different about the way we handle the controller.  Henceforth I can only surmise that the developers expected the controller to be handled in this way, dividing the line between people who have the problem and people who don't.  I guess the people in the testing room didn't consider it an issue.  You just seem to be having more trouble with this in general than I was.  There were a couple points where it was a little more frustrating than it might have been, but it certainly wasn't ever an exercise in frustration for me.  If you really hate it that much, why don't you just return it?  Not every game is everybody's cup o' tea.  That said, if you can stick it out a bit longer, there's some neat stuff to see toward the end... so maybe you should just push through.  I don't know.  I just feel frustrated for you since most of your problems are a mystery to me.  It's never fun to feel like you're fighting a game.

[iPPi]

Capcom developed Resident Evil 4, which is an awesome game, but it was also clunky at times.  In the end, it adds to the tension.

I haven't tried Dead Rising though so I can't really judge about DR yet.

[Antares]

RE4 was extremely clunky for an action title, although considering prior games in the franchise it was an improvement.  Somehow the formula worked beautifully though.  I think because the game was built so it didn't punish the player for the awkward interface, but managed to make it a part of the tension and fun of the gameplay.... if that makes any sense.

When I died I didn't find myself blaming the shitty interface thinking this all would be easy if the control scheme hadn't been developed by fucking retards.


I still haven't played dead rising, but from the outside most of the complaints are for issues that completely take the player out of the game experience and are frustrating on a level that immediately brings to mind complants about the game design.  I can agree that the save system probably works as a conscious design decision, The double stick roll thing Cobra is having a problem with would drive me bonkers though, and the replacing a broken weapon with an item you don't want reminds me of the kind of thing that would drive me insane as a kid playing an NES game.

I seem to remember seeing a VGcats strip about the phone thing.  Stuff like that is just frustrating simply because there is no real reason for the problem to exist within the context of the game universe.

[Quemaqua]

Just don't judge too harshly based on the complaints of others.  I have no intention of belittling their frustrations, as they're completely valid, but they don't affect every user.  Myself and a number of others I talked to before getting my 360 had no issues with any of that stuff at all.  And neither Sy nor Pyro complained about anything when they were here playing it.  I'd not quite put it in the RE4 category, though.  While that game was a little clunky, I'd say it was a higher-tier game in terms of development.  But not by all that much.

[Antares]

No worries, I've heard more than enough praise for the game to give it a look.  It's on my list for sure.

[Cobra951]

I have made it to the butcher.  Jeez!  How do you beat this guy, especially with time running out so quickly?  I have 2 saves, one on the HDD right after the case begins (before escorting Isabela), and the other on the memory card, in the security room after coming back to talk to Jessie.  I may try to run Isabela over again, but I don't think I can do it a whole lot quicker.  The one shortcut between 2 areas that I know of doesn't seem to help here.  Any pointers?

[Quemaqua]

So your problem is you can't beat the guy in time before the timer expires?  That's always a toughie.  Just remember to use skateboards or bikes.  Those can really cut down on travel time if you use them skillfully.  As for beating the butcher... I seem to recall you just stay the hell away from him and use guns.  I remember sniping and shotgunning a good bit, but it's been a while so I don't know specifics.  You could always go to GameFAQs.  There was some decent stuff on the game there last I checked, and if something is really giving you trouble I think this is a game where checking a FAQ is entirely justified.

[Cobra951]

Bikes, as in motorcycles?  I haven't seen any other kind.  And I've only tried skateboards like twice, so that'll be a learning experience.  Never thought of them as transportation.

I'll try a couple of more times.  Failing that, maybe I'll just start over one more time.  I'm at Level 31 now.  I'd love to get that last bar on my speed.

[Quemaqua]

I think there is a motorcycle in one particular part, but I'm talking about bicycles.  The only one I can remember specifically is at some kind of sporting goods / hunting / camping type store.  Entrance Plaza I think?  And the skateboards are absolutely a great way to get around.  It can be rather tough when there are a ton of zombies out, but if you carry a couple to make breakage less of a problem they can really speed your way if you're flying solo and need to get somewhere fast.  They're particularly awesome for getting through the park quickly.  If you've got to head from the south end of the mall to the north or northeast, those things will get you there in a quarter of the time.

[scottws]

The butcher in the supermarket?  I thought he was cake.

(click to show/hide)

I stood at the end of an isle, luring him down.  Then I just moved to the endcap area and he'd shoot past some.  Then I'd melee him with whatever I had for a bit.  Then I'd run down the next isle and do the same thing.  I thought he was probably the easiest boss I faced.

[Pugnate]

Man I hope there is a PC release.

Imagine a zombie mod... oh wait.

[Quemaqua]

I don't think that's who he means, scott.  That guy wasn't a butcher, he was just a shopkeeper or whatever.  There's an actual crazy butcher later.

[Cobra951]

I liked the supermarket boss, with the shopping cart & shotgun.  He was fun.

(click to show/hide)

I kept jumping over the shelves from aisle to aisle, dropping behind him, and smacking him with bats, knives, and so on.  Then when he finally managed to turn around, I'd hop over the shelves again.

I guess that's pretty much what Scott did.

I beat the butcher.  You were right.

(click to show/hide)

Shotguns are the answer.  I stayed as far away from him as I could, ducked his lobbed sides of beef (or human) then let him have it.

OK, I made it into overtime mode, and now I'm contending with a 24-hour clock to zombification, and these special-force soldiers.  Questions:  Do I have a shot at the real ending and the survival mode for sure now?  If so, what's the exploit for that "impossible" final boss you mentioned before?

Edit:  Never mind about the 1st question in the above spoiler.  I found the answer at Wiki.  Still need an answer to my 2nd question?

[Quemaqua]

I'll post the exploit in spoiler tags in case you want to try it legitimately first.  My guess is that you'll find it as frustrating as I did if not more so given the tone of some of your previous rants, and it drove me insane, so don't feel any shame in it.

(click to show/hide)

The last-last boss is a fistfight, and it's about as unfair as you could want.  Unless you're a much better player than I, you'll hate it.  I did manage to sort of hold my own for a while, but it was just so long and drawn out I hadn't the stamina for it I guess.  After losing the first time, I just didn't want to go through all the crap you have to go through just to get to the fight again, let alone actually spend another twenty minutes trying it, so I just caved in to the exploit.  Supposedly the best legitimate move you can do is the spinning around thing.  You know, the one where you stick your fists out and spin (or stick your weapon out if you have one ready, which will be flung to the far corners of the earth near the end of the spin).  That did work pretty well, but it still wasn't really doing the trick.  What I ended up doing was simply mash the attack button with a repeated punching combo.  The guy will block you, but you'll still do a little bit of damage.  Not much, but a little.  So when I started to get desperate during my second attempt and realized that I was going to lose, I just pounded the guy over and over again without stopping.  He'll block the entire time and never let up, but since he loses a tiny, tiny bit of health each time, you'll eventually win.  I hated the fact that I had to do this, but I consider it worth it just because of how cool all the end scenario stuff is.  Even if the fight pisses you off, there are a lot of cool moments in overtime mode, and the setup for the end fight is really cool and worth seeing.  Just a shame they didn't pull it off any better than they did.

[Cobra951]

Did you get the Zombie Genocider achievement, and the very powerful weapon that comes with it?

(click to show/hide)

I read that there was an achievement for killing 53,594 zombies, which gives you the real Megaman Mega Buster.  I didn't read how to do it, but I figured it out.  (Run them over repeatedly in the tunnels.)  I dedicated most of one game to that, and ended up with over 70,000 kills and Frank at Level 49.  You need to play until you get an ending to unlock the Mega Buster.  I ended up with Ending B.

I started a new 72-hour game, and tried out the new shooter.  This is immensely powerful, and comes with 300 shots.  Bosses are cake with it.  You can drop it on the rooftop, and pick up a fully loaded one in the security room area.  I imagine it should be the ticket against those damn special forces in Overtime mode.

Can you tell I've finally really gotten into this game?  Except for the idiocy of the roll-forward move, it's so much fun now.  I can get anywhere to anywhere underground, now that I know where 3 cars are parked.  I've figured out how to order items in the inventory (which involves dropping an item, scrolling the remaining items, and picking it up in the right slot).  This all but eliminates my problem with ending up drinking something or reading a book while in the middle of a twich fight with the hordes.  I finally defeated the 3 idiots on the jeep too.  Like I said, a very powerful weapon.

I'm going after achievements, and finally the "true ending" in OT mode, whatever that may be.

[Quemaqua]

I never did get the weapon or the zombie genocider thing, no.  I never even got the keys to the maintenance tunnels, so they never did me any good.  I wasn't using a guide, so I had to figure a lot out on my own, and I guess I never beat whatever boss had the keys.  I did get into the tunnels, obviously, but I couldn't get out of them except at the one open point.

Anyway, glad to see you're finally having the fun you should have been having!  It does take a while to get into the game's groove, but it's a total blast once you do.