Topic: The Crossing THREAD -- UPDATE: The Crossing is now put on HOLD (Reply 43)

[MysterD]

Around 23:25 until 25:30, into the 1Up Show, they mention, talk about, and show a little bit of Arkane's next PC game, The Crossing -- which is an FPS that is supposed to try and merge both the SP and MP components, into what they call Crossplaying...

Which has not been tried before....

The trailer for it begins at 24.45

Oh, the trailer's also on Youtube, here....
The Crossing - Trailer

[Quemaqua]

Interesting.  I'd definitely be curious to hear more.

[MysterD]

Interesting.  I'd definitely be curious to hear more.

Here's what I'm thinking and speculating, by the trailer and by what 1Up's talking about -- the game will have ONE CAMPAIGN to play...

...in which you will be able to import your character and their in-game progress back and forth, from SP to MP and from MP to SP, as much as you probably like.

I hope I'm right, b/c I've been waiting to see a game do such a thing.

[idolminds]

Huh...with they would explain more about it.

Lets hope its not a buggy, performance sucking game like Dark Messiah.

[MysterD]

Huh...with they would explain more about it.

Lets hope its not a buggy, performance sucking game like Dark Messiah.

Arx was buggy, so it makes sense Dark Messiah would be.

Arkane games are like Pirahna Bytes' Gothic games -- wait a few GOOD months before you buy their game, b/c they are normally buggy upon release, unfortunately.

[Quemaqua]

But Arx was bloody awesome.

[MysterD]

But Arx was bloody awesome.

Oh, yes. Arx was very good. I'm not questioning Arkane's ability to make a good game. They can obviously do that -- and quite well, I might add.

I'm just saying that I won't buy Arkane games out the box (Version 1.00) normally b/c they have a history like say Piranha Bytes -- releasing their games in a buggy state, which would mean way too damn early. If I'm going to drop $35-50 on a new game, it better run good and not be riddled w/ too many bugs.

I am betting that I would enjoy Dark Messiah, given that I liked the demo. I just think it's not worth spending that kind of $$ on a game that is buggy out the box. I'll wait 'til it drops in price and a few more patches are behind it.

I hope Arkane gets The Crossing right, performance-wise. It'd be great to see Arkane make a game that has great game performance and not too many bugs on Version 1.0, since I'm sure The Crossing will probably be a good game.

EDIT:
Best think about Arx = NO STEAM!

If only Dark Messiah and The Crossing had NO STEAM....

Well, I'm speculating The Crossing will probably have STEAM....

[idolminds]

Got the new issue of Games for Windows magazine in the mail, the cover story is that Arkane Studios game, The Crossing. That "crossplayer" stuff does indeed mix singleplayer and multiplayer, but...I dont know how well its going to work.

It breaks down like this. There are multiplayer skirmishes that are your typical MP that we're all used to. There is also the singleplayer stuff you play. Now, sometimes when you're playing SP you end up connecting to a MP server. Instead of the regular gametype the MP guys are playing, they will take over for some of the NPCs...either to help you your to stop you. Since its "your" singleplayer game they kind of tilt things in your favor.

On one hand it sounds like a neat concept, but on the other hand people that play online are fucking morons. So you'll get people on your side killing you, or saying stupid shit, or just doing crap that will generally break the SP immersion. It just seems like something that wont work out as well as they hope. They haven't taken the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory into account.

Which is a shame because they've got like knights in armor and swords with jetpacks dropping down and stabbing the shit out of other people. Might be good just for the strait up multi.


Oh yeah, this issue is worth checking out anyway. They have another 101 free games article. I'm downloading some now and will give impressions.

[Pugnate]

What is your overall impression of the mag? Is this the first issue? Who is doing the writing? Anyone we know?

[gpw11]

That doesn't sound appealing to me at all, but maybe I'm not fully getting it.

So lets say you're playing a single player game and you're running across a big ass abandoned city trying to get to some goal or other.  There's a bunch of AI guys around you, and all of a sudden you turn the corner and you're in this huge skirmish.  The bad guys get replaced with real players, and your allies likewise get replaced.  There's a handicap because it's YOUR game and you (presumably) still have to run through to your objective and/or defeat all the enemy players. 

Is that pretty much it.  It sounds like one of those ideas you come up with when you're like 17 and you just did some bong hits.  You and your buddies all think it's like the best idea ever and get really excited.  And then you think about it a few days later and you figure that it'll either never work, it's just stupid, or it doesn't even make sense.

I can't see it being seamless enough to be great for either single or multiplayer nor can I see it really adding anything to either game mode. It seems just more like a proof of concept or a gimmick to me. But like I said, I could be misinterpreting what's going on.  That said, I had a couple ideas of what it may have been, but this isn't even close to any of them. 

[gpw11]

And this just reminded me of that 1up show video where they 'introduced' the game.  Fuck, that was stupid.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I don't know that I have the utmost confidence in that idea.  I hate other people unless I get to kill them directly, and this doesn't sound like it's going to give me the best of any world.  I dunno'...

[idolminds]

Pug, this is issue 3 I think. Its not bad. They have some MS specific sections in the mags so far, mostly to explain Vista or whatever. Otherwise its the same as Computer Gaming World...same staff and everything.

Oh yeah, in the back of the mag they talk about Live coming to Vista. Its just like Xbox Live...including the fee. Good luck with that one, MS.

[Quemaqua]

They can jam that right back up their asses.

[Ghandi]

It sounds like one of those ideas you come up with when you're like 17 and you just did some bong hits.  You and your buddies all think it's like the best idea ever and get really excited.  And then you think about it a few days later and you figure that it'll either never work, it's just stupid, or it doesn't even make sense.

Hahaha. "Dude, this will revolutionize the gaming industry." 

But yeah, that sounds like a retarded idea.

[Pugnate]

They can jam that right back up their asses.

What is it with you and the gay jokes?

[Cobra951]

After seeing how tightly the whole Live thing is controlled on the 360, I'm more afraid of Vista than ever.  You can't even reject an update (to games or the system software) and stay on Live.  If they can lock shit down that much at the OS level (and they would presumably be able to find out about the latest hacks through forced updates) users are their bitch.  No thanks.  I'm used to big-brothering on consoles.  Will not submit on PCs.

[iPPi]

While it is a somewhat interesting and definitely unique concept, I don't think it will work out all that well.

[MysterD]

It breaks down like this. There are multiplayer skirmishes that are your typical MP that we're all used to. There is also the singleplayer stuff you play. Now, sometimes when you're playing SP you end up connecting to a MP server.

Wait....so I have no choice in that matter?

What if I just want to play single player and no multiplayer??? Can it be done w/out an internet connection???

Can I select to play just pure online only???

Can I select the game to randomly pick b/t online and offline?

Instead of the regular gametype the MP guys are playing, they will take over for some of the NPCs...either to help you your to stop you. Since its "your" singleplayer game they kind of tilt things in your favor.

Oh, that sounds cool, actually -- well, in theory it does, at least....

But, what would give a certain player the authority to take over as a certain NPC??? Would it be by some sort of ranking the game keeps track of? Or if you made it to a certain location of the game or did a certain quest...? Or is there a leveling system going on in the game a la like an RPG?

On one hand it sounds like a neat concept, but on the other hand people that play online are fucking morons. So you'll get people on your side killing you, or saying stupid shit, or just doing crap that will generally break the SP immersion. It just seems like something that wont work out as well as they hope. They haven't taken the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory into account.

Maybe characters on your own team automatically can't hurt you if you hit them? Or something? I dunno.....

But, yeah -- that GIFT might ruin what could be a really cool idea....

Which is a shame because they've got like knights in armor and swords with jetpacks dropping down and stabbing the shit out of other people. Might be good just for the strait up multi.

Knights in armor w/ swords and jetpacks stabbing the shit out of everyone sounds good!

[Pugnate]

If they had the technology to build jetpacks why are they using swords?

Anyway the whole idea is good if we lived in a perfect world, but unfortunately no.

Also now I have a major worry about Vista. You know how so many classic games like Unreal Tourney, Quake etc have free multiplayer? What if Vista creates a trend where we start losing on the free multiplayer and all these legendary franchises join the MS Live system? That would suck so bad.

[Quemaqua]

Well, the gaming boards sure got fucking depressing in a heartbeat.

[sirean_syan]

Gaming's definitely beginning to move into a new age... it just might be a dark one. A lot of things that companies started to create a few years ago are all starting to come together and now it's obvious many of the newer trends are completely manufactured for the sake of milking out more money rather than making better games. It's like gaming masses have been slowly trained to believe that they want certain things while other things are no longer cool and such. Combine this news with stuff like the Hellgate crap and you've got the next five years in gaming. It's hard to say it was a deliberate move on the part of the entire industry, but big groups definitely took every step that became avialable to them without much concern about what the games will actually become.

Yeah yeah, this sort of thing is ancient beyond all reckoning, but it's still sad to see it hitting our beloved games full on now. Of course there will be exceptions that we'll all be able to rally around, but that doesn't mean something hasn't been lost.

[Quemaqua]

The problem is that the elite can no longer dictate trends.  We can't just tell these people to fuck off because there's a whole new generation of brainwashed idiots out there just waiting to throw money at the games they think they want.

[Pugnate]

Gaming's definitely beginning to move into a new age... it just might be a dark one. A lot of things that companies started to create a few years ago are all starting to come together and now it's obvious many of the newer trends are completely manufactured for the sake of milking out more money rather than making better games. It's like gaming masses have been slowly trained to believe that they want certain things while other things are no longer cool and such. Combine this news with stuff like the Hellgate crap and you've got the next five years in gaming. It's hard to say it was a deliberate move on the part of the entire industry, but big groups definitely took every step that became avialable to them without much concern about what the games will actually become.

Yeah yeah, this sort of thing is ancient beyond all reckoning, but it's still sad to see it hitting our beloved games full on now. Of course there will be exceptions that we'll all be able to rally around, but that doesn't mean something hasn't been lost.

The assholes are uniting. Sorry I had to say it.

The whole Hellgate thing really saddens me. What if Diablo III pops out and its online aspect is pay to play as well?

The problem is that the elite can no longer dictate trends.  We can't just tell these people to fuck off because there's a whole new generation of brainwashed idiots out there just waiting to throw money at the games they think they want.

Those in authority use unfortunate events to fuck the masses. They will go beyond the warranted steps of protection in order to profit from misfortune themselves.

The government will at first take reasonable steps when faced by terrorists, but will then do something that takes total advantage of the situation so that they themselves can profit. Similarly a company like Microsoft will use piracy as an excuse to fuck us, the users. And other software giants and decision makers who have things at stake will back them, as a means to protect themselves over piracy. But soon a operating system will not just be secure from pirates, but will be a claustrophobic jail cell with rules that make you pay the big boys a dollar for every time you want to take a piss.

With companies like Epic, iD and Crytek making big bucks on their console games, and off the Xbox Live royalties, what is stopping them from joining the Live parade on Vista?

But what Que says strikes a chord. The biggest example is the Battlefield series. The game is ultimate example of having to bend over, yet the masses continue to roll out the money.

[idolminds]

I think we can blame MS for a lot of this. Xbox Live proved you could charge people to play games online. It also allowed devs to nickel and dime players for the simple crap that was just normally included with full games (horse armor!).

Though, that was the console side where you didnt have any choice. I think MS is going to have a hell of a time convincing PC gamers to go with it. We have free multiplayer online play now. A lot of games have built in friends lists, server browsers, and voice chat if you want. The only thing we pay for are MMOs. How are they going to convince us to give them $50 a year for...whatever they are offering? They cant even brag about Live Arcade...we have websites that sell small games like that already.

Not to mention the servers. PC gaming thrives on its own community hosting servers. Whos going to host servers for games on some special pay only network?

I think that there will still be the big holdouts that keep Live for PC from taking off. I'm guessing now that Halo 2 PC and Shadowrun will be Live only for multiplayer. Watch as they struggle to gain an online following while UT2k7 and Quake Wars have thousands of players.

[MysterD]

If they had the technology to build jetpacks why are they using swords?

B/c everybody's tired of using laser swords a la them Star Wars style lightsabers?

Also now I have a major worry about Vista. You know how so many classic games like Unreal Tourney, Quake etc have free multiplayer? What if Vista creates a trend where we start losing on the free multiplayer and all these legendary franchises join the MS Live system? That would suck so bad.

That's what single player games are for.

And that's what the companies that want to give me free MP play.

As much as I don't like the Hellgate: London ordeal w/ pay-to-play MP, as long as it has that Single Player component and I can play that offline, I'm not too worried about the MP. I just won't play the MP; skip the MP. I don't think the core campaign is going to be *that* much different than its SP, from the sound of things -- just there might be on the MP some extra items, extra quests, and extra PvP.

I would laugh so hard if Hellgate: London has great sales and everybody is playing the SP  component b/c the SP is great -- but, on the other hand, only very few are on the MP servers. Better yet, only Bill Roper and EA are playing on the MP servers! So, that could result in the MP server gets shut-down AND/OR they change their mind and make the MP free.

[MysterD]

Some of the storyline and plot of The Crossing has been revealed....

More Info On The Crossing

The latest issue of Games for Windows magazine has the promised cover story on The Crossing, the upcoming Source engine based first person shooter from developer Arkane Studios. The game design will attempt to merge aspects of single player and multiplayer in what the article is calling "cross-play", all based around a storyline that centers on the city of Paris that has fallen into disarray following the collapse of the French government.

I like the sound of the story already -- total anarchy, baby!!!

There's also jumping between parallel universes to a world where in the Middle Ages the Knights Templar did not disban and have in fact taken control of the government.

Ahhhh....The Knights Templar.....always good to see stuff about that!

This sounds pretty damn cool, too.

I loved Arx Fatalis' story, where the whole gameworld's underground b/c the O-Zone layer was, pretty much, destroyed and burned the Earth all up.
 

The merging of single and multiplayer in The Crossing happens when "story players" (either by themselves or in co-op mode) suddenly switch over to fight live "skirmish players". Skirmish players can also go into story missions, taking over enemies that normally would be controlled by a game's AI. Arkane Studios is apparently planning to control the game's servers for players of The Crossing to assure that the mixing of single and multiplayer matches is seemless. There are hints about unlockable content in The Crossing for players that participate in these kinds of matches. The Crossing is still early in development; the article states it's not due until sometime in 2008 and the screenshots that accompany the article are said to be very early (they pretty much look like a Half-Life 2 mod).

Okay.

[MysterD]

Preview -- 1Up's video on The Crossing

The video explains the storyline and premise of the game and why Arkane plans to merge SP and MP into one game....

The video shows a good amount of in-game footage -- and yes, given what the vid shows, it does look quite violent a la Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah!!!

Also, looks like there will be a ranking system, too. So, yes -- you can gain ranks and stuff by jumping in as an important/unimportant NPC and stopping the "Gordon Freeman" type of character (good guy).

This could be quite good and a lot of fun, it executed correctly...

[MysterD]

REQUEST to mods:
--Can we merge this thread w/ my "The Crossing THREAD?"

If that's cool w/ Idol, of course....

[Quemaqua]

Merged.

[MysterD]

Merged.

Thanks, Que.

I really hope it will be possible that you can install The Crossing w/out STEAM and w/out doing any MP, if you don't want to -- a la like what is possible w/ the Dark Messiah SP.

[Quemaqua]

But wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having merged SP and MP stuff?  If that's the game's gimmick, you can more or less bank on having 100% Steam intrusion.

[MysterD]

But wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having merged SP and MP stuff?

Yep. True. Point taken. But, it'd be nice to play it offline all by myself, if I don't want to bring the campaign to the MP -- kind of like what Hellgate: London's doing.

What I really got out of that video new 1Up preview video on The Crossing from what Raphael Colatonio (is that how he spells it?) said is he wants make the MP more meaningful than just a skirmish match -- he wants to give it a narrative.

I really wonder if the game will require, at all times, an online connection....

If that's the game's gimmick, you can more or less bank on having 100% Steam intrusion.

"Intrusion" is a good word for STEAM.

[Quemaqua]

Well, again, if the point of this is to merge SP and MP stuff, why wouldn't it requite you to be online and why would it ever give you the option to play alone?  Then it wouldn't be merging anything... it would be like every other game on the market.

[MysterD]

Well, again, if the point of this is to merge SP and MP stuff, why wouldn't it requite you to be online and why would it ever give you the option to play alone?  Then it wouldn't be merging anything... it would be like every other game on the market.

If it requires online-only play, it'll basically be an MMOFPS.....like a Guild Wars, which has a SP-style campaign in its MP.

Oh, shoot -- I hope there's no monthly fees attached to this....

[Quemaqua]

Again, given the mix of stuff, I don't think there's any way they can do that.  No, it isn't going to be an MMOFPS.  That's kind of the point.  Nor is it going to be an SP game.  It's going to be a *mix*.  You can't charge a monthly fee for a mix, nor can you expect that the concept is going to work if you allow people to play it offline.  Think logically, D.  And Guild Wars doesn't have SP in its MP, it just has a story.  It's still fully an MMO no matter the useless debates people try to spark about how to classify it.  I don't think the concept they're bringing to the table with this game is nearly so complicated as you seem to think.

[idolminds]

Actually, GW does have SP in a way....storyline with cutscenes and everything. If you hire henchmen/heroes to come with you, you never have to play with a real life person at all.

I'm still not sure about this Crossing game, though. 1up has a new interview. So far it sounds like...well, me when I have mod ideas. Where everything sounds great on paper and in a perfect world it would turn out awesome and people would play it the way you want...but we all know it won't work in reality.

[Quemaqua]

Hmm... well, everybody I talked to initially said that there was no way you could really play the game with henchmen, that it was far too difficult.  I haven't heard anything to contradict that since, so that was more or less my assumption.  And regardless, you can still play it with other people, and you're still forced to be online.  I call that an MMO even if you can get away with avoiding other people.  I mean, it's got the basic concept of what makes an MMO, even if it's heavily instanced.  It still isn't Diablo.  It just isn't the same setup.  It may be a very different MMO that fits certain play styles better, but I still call it an MMO.

[MysterD]

Actually, GW does have SP in a way....storyline with cutscenes and everything. If you hire henchmen/heroes to come with you, you never have to play with a real life person at all.

Agreed.

GW is mainly a Co-Op campaign, if you play w/ other players. Though, you never need other players -- you can just use the Henchmen (bots) and Heroes (NPC's you control a la BG games and NWN games) to finish the game w/.

I'm still not sure about this Crossing game, though. 1up has a new interview. So far it sounds like...well, me when I have mod ideas. Where everything sounds great on paper and in a perfect world it would turn out awesome and people would play it the way you want...but we all know it won't work in reality.

I still look forward to this game.

I really like what the plan is....whether it works and is execute well or not, oh....that's another story....

[MysterD]

You can count on 1Up to give A HELL OF A LOT more on this intriguing "cross-play" FPS game -- interview w/ Raphael Colotonio and Viktor Antonov of Arkane

I'd do my usual quoting and commenting and whatnot, since there is a lot here to digest, but I am damn tired and wanna go to bed; got work in the morn'...

'Til tomorrow, then...