Topic: Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles (Expansion) THREAD

[MysterD]

OK, so now I have.  My character is Level 3.  The first thing I did there is get a complete set of steel armor from one of the party that gets killed fighting that big guy.  I also went the colorful route.  Alice in Wonderland.  Whee.

On the bullshit side of things, I played 360 Oblivion for over a dozen hours without a problem, and now it's crashed on me twice in the couple of hours since I've added Shivering Isles, once shortly after I launched the game the first time with the new stuff, and once after I went through the portal.  Nice.  I have to play this now the way I play buggy PC games, save every 5 minutes.

Oh, that's a load of crap.

Cobra, you should've got the PC version, if that's the case.

Console games aren't supposed to be buggy like that!!! WTF??!?!?!

[Cobra951]

I know it.  Just my luck.  I'm looking around for any wisdom I can find on the issue.  All I get so far is the typical support-drone crap--go through hours of deleting, cache clearing and redownloading.  If this were file corruption, I really don't think it would be an intermittent issue.  It would screw up right away every time.  But I'm more than willing to listen to suggestions.  It's almost a 1-GB download, and I really don't want to go through it again just to follow someone's support script.

[MysterD]

I know it.  Just my luck.  I'm looking around for any wisdom I can find on the issue.  All I get so far is the typical support-drone crap--go through hours of deleting, cache clearing and redownloading.  If this were file corruption, I really don't think it would be an intermittent issue.  It would screw up right away every time.  But I'm more than willing to listen to suggestions.  It's almost a 1-GB download, and I really don't want to go through it again just to follow someone's support script.

Well, bleh.....they should refund you for such bullshit on a console game!

Cobra, can your current PC run Oblivion?

[Cobra951]

I have PC Oblivion, and have put in over 200 hours into it, courtesy of Que's favorite online store.     It just runs like crap unless I use below-minimum settings.  (I disable the specular lighting pass manually.  This requires an unofficial patch to content so that the game doesn't hang in some areas.)  After I got into widescreen LCDs, it's even worse.  Even at 1360x768, it chugs.  I was playing at 800x600 before.  I really wanted to experience the game as it was intended, and a whole new gaming PC is out of the question.  I've mentioned all this before, BTW.

Anyway, I am not alone in my woes.  This is good news.  It means I can stop worrying about it being something wrong with my 360/HDD/state of things in the HDD.  It's just bugs, pure and simple.  Rats.

[Pugnate]

Hey I had a silly question. Suppose for some reason you have to format your 360 HD... you don't have to repay for the expansion right? I imagine it is like steam in that the purchase is in your 360 profile

[Quemaqua]

That really bites, Cobra.  I can't defend anybody on this.  Thus far Bethesda haven't had the best luck doing adds for the 360.  The first patch actually made the game crash when it *didn't* before.  I have absolutely no doubt that they'll fix it with an update, but yeah, it doesn't entirely surprise me that there are problems.  But they seem to be doing their best to support the 360 version like crazy, so I've no doubt it'll get worked out before too long.

[Cobra951]

Pug:

Right.  I can re-download anything that I paid for at any time.  There is a problem, however, if your system gets replaced, even under warranty.  The whole thing is locked to the original system.  As I understand it, the solution isn't complete unless you get MS support to refund you all the points, then use them to re-purchase the content.  Otherwise, you have to be tethered to Xbox Live in order to play the stuff you bought.  (You don't have to be online normally to play downloaded content you bought.)

Que:

Thanks.  Your post is remarkably soothing for some reason.  I get in these paranoid moods when I have unexpected problems like this, and the standard response is "it's only your problem, mine works fine".  I do hope they fix this before I no longer care.  In the meantime, as I said, buggy-game rule: save every 5 minutes.  Heh.

[MysterD]

Pug:

Right.  I can re-download anything that I paid for at any time.  There is a problem, however, if your system gets replaced, even under warranty.  The whole thing is locked to the original system.  As I understand it, the solution isn't complete unless you get MS support to refund you all the points, then use them to re-purchase the content.  Otherwise, you have to be tethered to Xbox Live in order to play the stuff you bought.  (You don't have to be online normally to play downloaded content you bought.)

That sucks that you can't burn that to a CD/DVD, in case something happens.

At least w/ crappy-ass STEAM, you can do so -- yuh, so you don't have to downloading the freakin' thing again!

Que:

Thanks.  Your post is remarkably soothing for some reason.  I get in these paranoid moods when I have unexpected problems like this, and the standard response is "it's only your problem, mine works fine".  I do hope they fix this before I no longer care.  In the meantime, as I said, buggy-game rule: save every 5 minutes.  Heh.

I save more often than that "every 5 mins", in most of my PC games if they have a quicksave -- regardless of buggy-ness!

[MysterD]

I saw the box for Shivering Isles at BB yesterday, which is on DVD, thankfully...
Ummmm....yuh, I read the box and it says it takes up a whole 4.5 GB Hard drive space....

Shit, Oblivion takes up around 4.5 GB for me, as is.....!

[Quemaqua]

That's wrong.  My Oblivion directory is at around 8 & 1/4 gigs, but the shivering isles BSAs total less than a gig.  And, remember, I have a lot of mods.  My data directory is over 7 gigs now.  I also have 1,215 screenshots totaling just under a gig inside there as well.  So... yeah, I don't think SI needs that much space.  They must just be listing Oblivion's stock requirement or something, unless there's a bunch more added info somewhere that I don't know about.  Which I suppose is possible, but I dunno'.

EDIT - So I got up earlier than everybody else today and played some more... this expansion continues to impress.  The capital city, while far from "huge", is really, really cool.  Just fun to explore, all kinds of neat stuff.  There are unique spells, summons, lots of side quests, the usual stuff, just all unique to SI.  I'm impressed with the content.  You could get well beyond 30 hours with this thing if you like to do side quests, raid dungeons, wander around a lot, etc.  I've only carved a swath of about 1/4 of the entire map in my travels, and I haven't really "done" most of what I've discovered... but I can see how much is there and how much there is to do, and that 1/4 has at least 5 dungeons, two towns (aside from New Sheoth), and plenty of random stuff scattered around the wilderness.

[MysterD]

That's wrong.  My Oblivion directory is at around 8 & 1/4 gigs, but the shivering isles BSAs total less than a gig.  And, remember, I have a lot of mods.  My data directory is over 7 gigs now.  I also have 1,215 screenshots totaling just under a gig inside there as well.  So... yeah, I don't think SI needs that much space.  They must just be listing Oblivion's stock requirement or something, unless there's a bunch more added info somewhere that I don't know about.  Which I suppose is possible, but I dunno'.

Yeah, wow -- you've got 8 1/4 gigs for one game -- including mods and all the expansions! DAMN!!! hehe.

Sounds like that w/ SI, the game might be smaller -- but it FAR more detailed and unique than Oblivion.

EDIT - So I got up earlier than everybody else today and played some more... this expansion continues to impress.  The capital city, while far from "huge", is really, really cool.  Just fun to explore, all kinds of neat stuff.  There are unique spells, summons, lots of side quests, the usual stuff, just all unique to SI.  I'm impressed with the content.  You could get well beyond 30 hours with this thing if you like to do side quests, raid dungeons, wander around a lot, etc.  I've only carved a swath of about 1/4 of the entire map in my travels, and I haven't really "done" most of what I've discovered... but I can see how much is there and how much there is to do, and that 1/4 has at least 5 dungeons, two towns (aside from New Sheoth), and plenty of random stuff scattered around the wilderness.

I can't wait for this.

The more you talk about this, the more I want it!!! It sounds like the Oblivion expansion I've been waiting for!

I must admit, KOTN's last battle was awesome w/ Umareil (spelling?), though -- and so was the ending sequence to that and all.

[Pugnate]

Got Shivering Isles for $20 today.

WWOOOOOH

Also downloaded the slow leveling mod Que pimped.

Should I go for 4x or 5x?

[Quemaqua]

Doesn't matter much really.  Anything slower is better.  If your plan is to go apeshit and try to complete as much content as you can over a long period of time, just throw in the max level of slowness (or at least something high on the chain).  If you aren't sure just how crazy you're going to be, throw in something more in the middle.

[Pugnate]

Man this slow leveling has changed the game for me. I am going at 5x slower and loving every minute of it. Game feels epic.

[Pugnate]

Well Shivering Isles was the reason I got back into Oblivion. I had lost all my saves and had to restart the game, but I always had issues with the leveling process.

Well two things have made it a non issue and Oblivion a near perfect experience. The first is a mod that caps how much each NPC will level up with you. For example a beggar will be capped at level 1, while a guard will be at 10 etc.

The second is that level slow mod, that has pretty much changed the game for me. I was frustrated at having reached the limit of my marksmen skill without even completing 20% of the game.

All that has now changed. Wheeeee.

edit:

http://elderscrolls.filefront.com/file/;60149

That's the cap thing I am using. I found the best version of the mod to be one of the early ones, 1.01. The newer versions are just extremely heavy with the changes. I just wanted something that made the level caps realistic.

[MysterD]

Well Shivering Isles was the reason I got back into Oblivion. I had lost all my saves and had to restart the game, but I always had issues with the leveling process.

Well two things have made it a non issue and Oblivion a near perfect experience. The first is a mod that caps how much each NPC will level up with you. For example a beggar will be capped at level 1, while a guard will be at 10 etc.

I can understand a beggar capped at level 1.

But, really -- wouldn't it be too easy to wipe out a town if the guard was capped out at say level 10??

Oh -- where can you get this "cap" mod?

The second is that level slow mod, that has pretty much changed the game for me. I was frustrated at having reached the limit of my marksmen skill without even completing 20% of the game.

All that has now changed. Wheeeee.

One thing that makes The Elder Scrolls (recent) games great is The TES Construction Kit. The "plug-in" method is great, as it makes it EASY for even modders to say fix a bug themselves, if they find it and know it can be easily done. It also makes it EASY to change the game itself, too.

Mods like the BTMod make BethSoft just say, "No need to add this feature to the game; look what the modders did w/ this mod -- it's so good, I happen to use this mod all the time." If that isn't enough good reason to try a Mod, shit -- I don't know what the hell is.

Plus, most mods are as easy as turning on or off the plug-in, if you don't really like them. You don't have to reinstall the game or anything, if you don't want to use the additional mod.

[Pugnate]

Oh man I am so baldy hooked on Oblivion now. I have it so bad... so baaaaad. Two days in a row, gamed 10 successive hours.

The only reason I stopped is because I have work on a Sunday morning.

[Cobra951]

Thanks for the link to that level-capping mod.  I don't know how good it is, but if it's done correctly, it would be the solution to the game's biggest problem for me.  I went ahead and downloaded it, even though I'm actually playing the 360 game (which can't be modded).  I don't know when I'll actually get to try it.

[MysterD]

Yay, I got my copy of Shivering Isles.
And it comes w/ a map of it inside, too!!!

For those who forgot, this week @ Circuit Cuty...
Oblivion = $39.99
Knights of the Nine (Expansion #1) = $7.99
Shiv Isles (Expansion #2) = $17.99

I must go install now....

[Pugnate]

I know! I was so happy with the price. It was a bit surprising to be honest.

[MysterD]

Well, shit -- I ain't hit this bug yet, I'm around 140 plus hours or so w/ my saved games....

Hmmm...WTF did I do right...?

Shivering Isles Bug [April 09, 2007, 11:01 pm ET] - Viewing Comments
Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages reports a critical bug in the new Shivering Isles expansion for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (thanks Joystiq), along with advice on workarounds. Word is:

    A very serious bug has been found with Shivering Isles that will render the game unplayable in many ways after about 50 to 120 hours of play (better FPS means bug hits earlier). The bug will occur regardless of whether you access SI content or not.

    The bug is thoroughly confirmed on the PC. It is not known whether the bug affects Xbox users as well -- it is reasonable to assume that it would, but might not hit until around 150 hours of play assuming 30 FPS on Xbox.

    While the situation appeared quite bad initially, a patch mod is now available for the PC and a tool is available to repair savegames that are affected by the bug or that are likely hit by it in the near future. Moreover, there is an official response from Bethesda:

    Regarding the issue in which Form ID's are being used at a high rate in the Shivering Isles content; we are aware of the issue and we are currently looking into a solution. We appreciate your patience, especially from those of you affected by this issue, as we carefully work out a fix that will correct this problem without adding any new issues. --NothingCatchy, Developer

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, this is a bug that already existed.  I don't know who's smoking what, but I hate these fucking idiots that comment on this shit.  Of course Bethesda tests.  They test the living fuck out of their games.  But what, you think they have the manpower to test a single savegame for 200+ hours?  You're fucking kidding me, right?  Admittedly I'm not happy that they've yet to fix this one as it was an issue with the original game, but still... give me a break.

[idolminds]

D, it says its dependent on your FPS. If you play with low FPS it will take longer for the bug to hit you.

[Cobra951]

Yeah, this is a bug that already existed.  I don't know who's smoking what, but I hate these fucking idiots that comment on this shit.  Of course Bethesda tests.  They test the living fuck out of their games.  But what, you think they have the manpower to test a single savegame for 200+ hours?  You're fucking kidding me, right?  Admittedly I'm not happy that they've yet to fix this one as it was an issue with the original game, but still... give me a break.

Wait a minute.  The bug only hits if you use the same savegame file over and over again, for 50 to 120 hours? 

I never heard of this bug before, and I swear I put in over 200 hours into the PC game without such a truly terminal problem.

If I understand what happens at all, from what little I read, some limited resource gets progressively used up until it's gone.  Seems similar to a memory leak, or eating up too many Windows handles without releasing them--something like that?  If so, it doesn't take 200 hours of waiting for a failure to find such things.  All it takes is some competent testing by the only people truly qualified to test programs--programmers.  If you give it to a bunch of kids for next to no money to play the hell out of, and don't do any real testing, then it makes sense.

[Quemaqua]

I have no idea what the problem is.  The brilliant people at Shacknews didn't feel it was necessary to actually, you know, report on it.  But if it's the one I think it is it affects the way animations play.  They just start getting slow and make the game entirely unplayable.  There's another bug that seems time-related which makes items not properly display in boxes (but it only seems to affect huge stacks of items and really full boxes, and the items don't actually disappear, they just fail to display).

For the record, I've been playing for hundreds of hours and have experience neither problem.

[Pugnate]

What the fuck? That makes no sense whatsoever! I also hate how they are so vague. Worse comes to worse you just reinstall the game and use your old saves. I am glad Que explained it, but that has to be one of the dumbest little reports ever.

[Quemaqua]

No, that doesn't work.  It affects the save file somehow, not your install.  It's tied to your character.  You have to use a hex editor on the save to get rid of it.

[Pugnate]

OK I hope it is a rare thing.

[Cobra951]

No, that doesn't work.  It affects the save file somehow, not your install.  It's tied to your character.  You have to use a hex editor on the save to get rid of it.

. . . something which is not possible on the 360 unless a tool is released officially.  Oh, well.  No worries yet.

[idolminds]

Beta patch that fixes the problem is available here.

[MysterD]

Beta patch that fixes the problem is available here.

I'll wait for the final patch.
I'll probably be out SOON.

[Cobra951]

I hope so, for my console version.  Last thing I read on this is that the SI expansion makes the bug much worse by speeding up how soon it happens.  I can't be sure that this is true, but it's troublesome enough for me to lay off of Oblivion until I have a patch or a more complete picture.

[MysterD]

Can you buy a house in Crucible and/or Bliss?
I really need to store my stuff in the Shiv Isles somewhere.
I don't wanna go back to Tamriel to do some storage.

Oh,
You know what quest I liked???

The Suicidal Guy Quest (in the city)

(click to show/hide)

The one where the guy is too weak to commit suicide in the city, so you have to find a way to kill him w/out anything legally being pinned on you....hehe.

[Cobra951]

Can you buy a house in Crucible and/or Bliss?
I really need to store my stuff in the Shiv Isles somewhere.
I don't wanna go back to Tamriel to do some storage.

Awesome question.  I bought the house in . . . damn my senility . . . the town nearest the SI portal, just so I could store my stuff.  I do go back and forth.  Haven't found a way around it yet.

[MysterD]

Awesome question.  I bought the house in . . . damn my senility . . . the town nearest the SI portal, just so I could store my stuff.  I do go back and forth.  Haven't found a way around it yet.

Yeah, I forget the name of that town.
Regardless, I do have a house in the town near the Isle.
I just don't wanna travel back and forth.

The "Doubles In Split" Quest

(click to show/hide)

I did the Quest in Split, where you have to take on the Doubles/Dopplegangers-- and figure out which ones are the correct doubles.

That quest was awesome.

[MysterD]

The Duskfang/Dawnfang Sword

(click to show/hide)

Hey, I got the Duskfang/Dawnfang sword, after doing the "make a decision on these adventurers" quest at Xilidian (or however it's freakin' spelled).

That sword's pretty sweet.

[Cobra951]

I like it as well, since it's basically self-maintaining.  But I got it real early in SI, and it's getting left behind in usefulness.  This everything-levels-up thing doesn't seem to include weapons.

[idolminds]

The special items/weapons you get depend on the level you get them. The higher your level when you complete the quest for it, the better the item you get. Its like level 1, 5, 10, 20, and 30 or something like that.

There is a mod that fixes that, though. When you reach the level to gain the next highest version, it will remove the lesser weapon and give you the better one.

[Quemaqua]

Which I think is completely stupid.  Where's the incentive to get new stuff?  There's already so little equipment variety in TES games compared to, say, Diablo, so why shoot yourself in the foot and give yourself even *less* to do equipment-wise?

[MysterD]

Which I think is completely stupid.  Where's the incentive to get new stuff?  There's already so little equipment variety in TES games compared to, say, Diablo, so why shoot yourself in the foot and give yourself even *less* to do equipment-wise?

I agree w/ Que. I like the way the game is, as is.

I mean, shit -- if I get say an awesome sword and suddenly, I hit a new level and it levels up w/ me, what's the point or going out to get new weapons??? Oblivion already lacks unique equipment when compared to games such as Titan Quest, as is. I don't need less reasons to go item-hunting. I like item-hunting. Though, by going item hunting, even if you don't need new weapon, you can make LOTS OF MONEY once you sell an item.

I think it's interesting that depending on your level, they'll give you a different version of the item. That's cool. Maybe, first time around, for the sake of an example here, say The Duskfang/Dawnfang is the best sword for me -- b/c I get it when I'm a high level. Another time I go through the game, I get the item early on and it's a piece of shit; this time, some other weapon is what I'll be using -- that's different and cool w/ me.

Though, it would be interesting if there was say some ONE unique object that is hard to find and it levels up w/ you, as you go along -- kind of like Dak'kon's sword in Planescape (it's also the only weapon he can equip, in the game, too). Now, that would be *quite* interesting....

EDIT:
Since I'm a "Master" w/ Blades, I been barely using swords for a while. I been working on upping other skills -- such as Blunt, since my Blunt skill's weak. I'm trying to really trick my character out, in all regards. Make him Godly, powerful in all areas; heehee.