Topic: Warner Bros. planning Total HD Disc to play HD-DVD and Blu-Ray

[MysterD]

Warner Bros. plans to unveil Total DVD, a disc that will be compatible w/ HD-DVD and Blu-Ray
 

New disc may sway DVD wars
Warner Bros. plans to announce a single videodisc that can play films and television programs in both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, the rival DVD technologies.
The New York Times
By Richard Siklos
The New York Times
Published: January 3, 2007, 9:45 PM PST

Consumers wary of buying new high-definition DVD players because of a technology war reminiscent of the days of Betamax versus VHS will soon have a new kind of DVD that might make the decision less daunting.

Warner Bros., which helped popularize the DVD more than a decade ago, plans to announce next week a single videodisc that can play films and television programs in both Blu-ray and HD DVD, the rival DVD technologies.

Warner Bros., a division of Time Warner, plans to formally announce the new disc, which it is calling a Total HD disc, at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas on Tuesday.

Two rival camps introduced high-definition DVD players last year: a consortium called Blu-ray, backed by Sony and others, and a group called HD DVD, backed by Toshiba and Microsoft. Retail and media executives say this clash of corporate titans and their incompatible machines has left some consumers bewildered and has slowed the introduction of what is intended to be the next great thing in home entertainment.

Executives at Time Warner and its Hollywood subsidiary hope to spur sales of new DVD players and movies by gaining the support of retailers and cajoling rival studios into making their film and television libraries available in both formats on a single disc.

In addition to reviving the ghost of the war that marked the introduction of videocassettes in the 1980s, the high-definition battle has been exacerbated by the decision of several major studios to support only one of the technologies.

Thus, for instance, a copy of 20th Century Fox's Ice Age: The Meltdown is available only on Blu-ray, while Universal's The Break-Up can be viewed only on a disc and player built with HD DVD technology.

Barry M. Meyer, the chairman and chief executive of Warner Bros., said in an interview that the company came up with the Total HD disc after concluding that neither Blu-ray nor HD DVD was going the way of Betamax anytime soon.

"The next best thing is to recognize that there will be two formats and to make that not a negative for the consumer," Meyer said. "We felt that the most significant constituency for us to satisfy was the consumer first, and the retailer second. The retailer wants to sell hardware and doesn't want to be forced into stocking two formats for everything. This is ideal for them."

In a world besotted with gadgetry, few consumer products have generated as much excitement--and head-scratching--as high-definition television. Flat-screen, high-definition TVs have been flying off the shelves for the last year and are now as common in homes as coffee pots. Yet few people are actually watching superclear high-definition programming.

Part of the disconnect is the lack of high-definition programming on cable and satellite television, and the additional outlay for decoder boxes and premium channels needed to get it. The rival movie player technologies have further blurred the outlook for high definition. Richard Greenfield, an analyst at Pali Capital, predicted in a recent report that this would be the first year since the introduction of the DVD that consumer spending on the discs would decline, putting pressure on the studios that rely heavily on them for profits.

For now, Sony; Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, which is owned by private equity firms in partnership with the Comcast and Sony; 20th Century Fox, a division of the News Corp.; and Walt Disney Pictures are all exclusively releasing their DVDs in Blu-ray.

Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric, is releasing only in HD DVD. Warner and Paramount Pictures, a division of Viacom, are issuing DVDs in both formats.

Behind these allegiances are complex strategic questions revolving around everything from manufacturing costs to profit margins, debates over each format's technical strengths and weaknesses, and how these players relate to Microsoft and Sony's video-game strategies.

(Blu-ray players are built into the new Sony PlayStation 3, while Microsoft is selling HD DVD drives that attach to its Xbox 360.)

Another wrinkle is plans by LG Electronics, and possibly other gadget makers attending the Las Vegas conference, to announce new DVD players with drives for both formats; however, such players will most likely be initially more expensive than other players.

Jeffrey L. Bewkes, the president of Time Warner, said the Total HD disc has a better chance of catching on than dual players. Research commissioned by Warner indicates that consumers are willing to pay several dollars more than current high-definition DVDs for a disc that works on both players. At the Web site for Best Buy, Warner's Superman Returns DVD was selling yesterday for $19.99 in its standard format, $29.99 for Blu-ray and $34.99 for HD DVD.

Still, it is not clear whether news of Warner's Total HD disc would convince the studio heads who are backing one format or the other to release their wares in both. Sony, of course, has placed a big bet on Blu-ray's success and does not want to relive the sting of Betamax's defeat. The number of studios committed solely to Blu-ray has been seen as a competitive edge, particularly because HD DVD came to market several months ahead of Blu-ray.

And HD DVD's boosters say they doubt gaming fans who have been snapping up the just-introduced PlayStation 3 will take advantage of its built-in Blu-ray player and buy movies as well as video games.

In recent interviews, executives at Fox and Disney were unequivocal in their support for Blu-ray. They said they believed that releasing DVDs in both formats would only prolong confusion and the emergence of a winning format. "I think the fastest way to end the format war is through decisiveness and strength," said Bob Chapek, the president of Buena Vista Worldwide Entertainment, the home video arm of Walt Disney.

Like other Blu-ray proponents and partners, Chapek said that he favors Blu-ray because of its greater storage capacity and other attributes. HD DVD offers the same vivid picture by storing less information on its disc, which means fewer minutes of video and other features. However, among its perceived advantages, HD-DVD players are less expensive. (Both formats can play standard DVDs.)

Because of manufacturing complexities, the Total HD disc will not contain a standard format version, said Kevin Tsujihara, the president of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group. However, several months ago the company filed patents for a new disc incorporating all three formats, which it could produce in the future.

Tsujihara described the new disc as an elegant way for studios to make their content available more widely "in a way that is not conceding defeat" for the format they have been backing.

In the short term, Total HD would actually add to the number of formats retailers will have to stock, raising it from three to four. However, Irynne V. MacKay, senior vice president for entertainment products at Circuit City, said she supported the idea because it took pressure off consumers puzzling over which format to invest in. "The simpler the future is for us, the better," said MacKay.

Entire contents, Copyright © 2007 The New York Times. All rights reserved.

[Cobra951]

I just want Blu-Ray to die.  Nothing that validates its existence excites me.

[idolminds]

Way to not understand the problem, Warner Bros. Consumers don't want to worry about having 2 formats...so you create a 3rd format?

The better solution is to build players that can play both formats. Then people can do what they do now: buy a movie and watch it. The format would be irrelevant.

The best solution would be for one of the formats to die off and have all the studios settle on one format that gets all releases.

[Jedi]

Way to not understand the problem, Warner Bros. Consumers don't want to worry about having 2 formats...so you create a 3rd format?

The better solution is to build players that can play both formats. Then people can do what they do now: buy a movie and watch it. The format would be irrelevant.

The best solution would be for one of the formats to die off and have all the studios settle on one format that gets all releases.

So true, it's just a waiting game at this stage. One format will die regardless of dual/hybrid players, one format will be a clear winner and the other will fade away and die a lonely death. And we've got time to wait the whole HD format is still being worked out, standards have only just been formalized and what's in production now will have to be changed (again) to match these. I think HDMI 1.3 is out but the hardware in stores use 1.2?! may not sound like a lot but the bandwidth on 1.3 is higher than 1.2.
With all the money you'd need to spend on setting up the entertainment centre best to wait another 6 months if not more.

[Antares]

Using some overly simplistic math here  The market looks like this:

1/3 Of movies are HDDVD 1/3 are Blu-Ray and 1/3 are potentially playable on either

The consumer gets the option of either
Purchasing a player that plays one format or the other and being able to watch 2/3 of titles in HD or purchasing a Combination player that can play everything.  Naturally the combo player is going to come at a cost premium.

WB wins either way, their discs will play on anyone's system, but in the end the consumer gets shafted because we have to bear the additional costs of either purchasing DVDs that play in more than one format, or purchasing a Player that can play either format.

I almost just wish the tech didn't exist to have both options, it allows the option for a stalemate between the formats which I think is unacceptable.

[scottws]

Precisely, Ant.  Think of DVD-R and DVD+R.  They coexist perfectly now because pretty much everything supports playing (and burning) both.  That's something we don't really want to see with video releases, I don't think.

I'm with Cobra.  Fuck Sony.  I hope the PS3 fails somehow and Blue Ray along with it.  Hell, even Sony as a whole.  They have huge markups on all their shit and are always trying to strangle the consumer by creating draconian formats that completely butcher the right of fair use (which practically doesn't exist anymore because of the DMCA).

[Jedi]

I'd like to the PS3 fail just to teach Sony of fucking lesson on over extending and pushing too hard on the blue-ray front (this is where I think MS got it right - the console its self isn't tied to either side and they can just bring out a blue-ray drive if the format wins).
But on the other hand Sony has the money to push their console (and their format) if sales don't match their projections etc.

[Antares]

I wouldn't be so anti-sony if they didn't have such a storied an distinguished past of the same bullshit tactics.  Also, as scott said all of Sony's consumer electronics cost at least 25% more than any comprable product, but the morons keep buying it because it's the electronics equivalent of Gucci or Prada, and having S O N Y stamped on the front of a product makes the moron seem rich and smart in front of all his moron friends.

[Cools]

Am I the only one that doesn't hate Sony on this forum? They make good pro (video) products and a lot of their formats are now industry standards (for a reason). For one, eventhough Beta failed as a consumer format, it later on developed into what we now know as DV and HDV (in partnership with a few other companies).

Granted I don't care much for the PS3, but I don't mind Blu-Ray. I just want the war to be over so I can finally start releasing HD DVDs!

[Pugnate]

The only Sony product I own is a cell phone, as well as a TV (but I think everyone has at some point). But yea these pissy 'I hate Sony' comments' are getting tedious now.

Sony is teh devil as opposed to who? Microsoft? Give me a break. They are all evil. Except for maybe Nintendo, but that's because they are too small to be evil.

[Quemaqua]

I've actually always hated Sony.  Every Sony I ever had was cheaply built and would break easily.  Their low-end TVs totally blow ass compared to those of other prominent companies like Panasonic.

[WindAndConfusion]

Way to not understand the problem, Warner Bros. Consumers don't want to worry about having 2 formats...so you create a 3rd format?

...that is compatible with both the first and the second. Yes. That is exactly what they should have done, given the option.

Precisely, Ant.  Think of DVD-R and DVD+R.  They coexist perfectly now because pretty much everything supports playing (and burning) both.  That's something we don't really want to see with video releases, I don't think.

No, they co-exist perfectly because DVD+R was explicitly designed to be compatible with any DVD-ROM player (whereas DVD-R was only guaranteed to work on specialized DVD-R players). Believe it or not, Sony was right to create the DVD+R format, and in the long run it probably saved you money because it simplified manufacturing.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Sony's engineering is fine, it's their management that so completely sucks.

[iPPi]

Meh.

Personally, like most of you,  I'm hoping blu-ray will fail miserably, along with the PS3.  I've really started hating Sony lately (though, not all their products... their cell phones are nice).

I'm probably gonna be picking up an HD-DVD drive my Xbox360 in the next few weeks/months or something.

[gpw11]

I don't know how soon we'll see any sort of combo unit.  There was rumors of a couple back in the summer, but both fizzled out.  There have also been hints that either one or both of the groups backing the formats may have clauses in their licensing agreements regarding combo players at this point but I have no idea if that is true or not.

Either way, I don't care.  I don't really think either format is all that necessary.  I can wait with DVD until HVD is fully developed, on the industrial market for a few years, and gets cheap enough to be viable for home commercial entertainment use. 

[scottws]

No, they co-exist perfectly because DVD+R was explicitly designed to be compatible with any DVD-ROM player (whereas DVD-R was only guaranteed to work on specialized DVD-R players). Believe it or not, Sony was right to create the DVD+R format, and in the long run it probably saved you money because it simplified manufacturing.

If you are going to correct me, at least try to get your facts straight.  It is the DVD-R spec which is more widely compatible with older DVD players.  Also, Sony alone didn't come up with DVD+R.  Sony was but one partner in its development and marketing.  The DVD+RW Alliance, which came up with and marketed the DVD+R(W) spec consists of the following companies:  Sony, Dell, HP, Mitsubishi, Philips, Ricoh, RCA, and Yamaha.

And I still maintain that both co-exist because pretty much everything plays and records both formats perfectly fine.  As for DVD+R compatibility with DVD players, I've never had a problem with that so I wouldn't say it's much of an issue.

If DVD+R simply didn't work in DVD players or DVD burners only burned either DVD+R or DVD-R, I'm pretty sure you'd see one of the two formats being much more dominant than the other.  Possibly the format "war" here might even have been over already.

[Cobra951]

My brother's players could not handle some DVD+Rs I made for him.  I had to re-burn the content to DVD-Rs.  So I know from experience this can be a problem with some old standalone players.

The Xbox HD-DVD drive is apparently a good choice even for PCs.  It's $200.  Personally, I'm staying away from all high-def DVDs for now.  I'll use the same test I used to switch from VHS to DVD: when I can go to Blockbuster and see every new movie on the shelf in the winning format, then I'll spring for it.

I have long thought of Sony as overbearing and overpriced.  They have taken that to new lows with the PS3.  I want to see landfills brimming with these things, and covered with Blu-Ray discs.  I once thought of them as the best electronics brand, a few ages ago.  Their open-reel recorders, audio amplifiers and Trinitron TVs were the stuff of legend.  (I still have a 50-watt/channel TA-1130 audio amp I purchased in 1975.  It weighs about one and a half hernias, has MOSFET transistors in huge heatsinks at the output stage, a damping factor of 200, and still works.  No noisy pots either, something my Klipsch ProMedias couldn't manage for one measly year.)  Since then, the quality of their consumer stuff has taken a nosedive, and is now no better than anything else, at best.  But the brand name preserves the old, earned mystique.  It's an implicit deception.

[Antares]

I'm pretty sure my Klipsch Pro Media speakers had noisy pots right out of the box....


and WTF is a damping factor?

[Cobra951]

It's like the force the amp exerts over the speakers.  The more damping factor, the better the control over the cone movement.  I think of it as similar to the torque of a car engine.  Cheap, miniaturized electronics are weaklings in comparison, with much-lower damping factors.  It's a spec you just don't see anymore.

Edit: I love Wikipedia

[MysterD]

I don't know how soon we'll see any sort of combo unit.  There was rumors of a couple back in the summer, but both fizzled out.  There have also been hints that either one or both of the groups backing the formats may have clauses in their licensing agreements regarding combo players at this point but I have no idea if that is true or not.

Either way, I don't care.  I don't really think either format is all that necessary.  I can wait with DVD until HVD is fully developed, on the industrial market for a few years, and gets cheap enough to be viable for home commercial entertainment use. 

Some company known as LG is working on a Combo Player to play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Discs. Read that in the Metro, the other day.

That will be unveiled at the same show Warner Bros will be at w/ their new Total HD disc.

[MysterD]

Personally, I'm staying away from all high-def DVDs for now.  I'll use the same test I used to switch from VHS to DVD: when I can go to Blockbuster and see every new movie on the shelf in the winning format, then I'll spring for it.

Amen.

When I see my video rental store (Hollywood Video)....

1.Switching their DVD section to all HD-DVD AND/OR Blu-Ray for rentals
2.And the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray players are much cheaper than what they are now
3.And finally we have a winner in the format war....

...Maybe I'll spring for one.

[Antares]

Some company known as LG

  Some company?

[gpw11]

Some company known as LG is working on a Combo Player to play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Discs. Read that in the Metro, the other day.

That will be unveiled at the same show Warner Bros will be at w/ their new Total HD disc.

Interesting, the LG combo player was one of the ones I was referring to (the other being the Samsung).  I didn't think there was any new news on it at all since the murmurs in the summer.  I guess that also settles the question of licensing lock outs.

LG actually makes pretty good quality electronics.  I've had a few of their optical drives and a washing machine from them, and never really ran into a problem (I used to also have a Goldstar stereo in the early 90's, but I think the company is a bit more respectable now).  I'm not sure if they sell their stuff in the states under Phillips or something like that, but they're a huge company. 

[Pugnate]

Some company?

 

If anyone else had said that I would have thought they were joking. 

[iPPi]

If anyone else had said that I would have thought they were joking. 

Haha.

[Quemaqua]

I don't understand why this is funny.  I'd never heard of LG until they started advertising on TV here, which really wasn't very long ago.  I can only recall one commercial off the top of my head, and it's still airing.  Some thing with a chick throwing her gown in the dryer to make it pretty again after it got wrinkled.  Are they big in Canada or something?

[Antares]

They've only had a couple commercials that I've seen, but  LG has a huge share in the Cell phone market, and has become a pretty big player in the TV and other consumer electronic market in the last year or two.

[gpw11]

They're easily one of the largest electronics makers in the world.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were selling products in the states under a more established name (probably Phillips) until very recently. 

[Quemaqua]

That could well be, and would make sense if they're really that huge.  Because I'd never seen an ad until less than a year ago, I think.

[gpw11]

I can't honestly say I've ever really seen an ad, but I don't really watch much tv.  I know I didn't know a lot about them untill maybe 2001 when I was looking to buy a cd burner by LG and looked them up.

[Cobra951]

My Verizon-net cell phone is made by LG.  I have a CD burner in my Dell from them too, although I don't trust it for burning anymore.

[Antares]

Wiki on LG


Your typical asian Electronics Conglomerate.  They were known as Goldstar until 1995, and have made several joint-ventures with companies like Phillips and Hitachi

[Quemaqua]

Now I see that gpw mentioned Goldstar as well.  *That* I've heard of, and my recollections of the brand are rather not so good.

[scottws]

Goldstar was definately a budget brand.  Basically they made those 13" TVs you'd see for like $50.

[Cobra951]

Interesting.  I wouldn't touch Goldstar with a 10-ft pole back then.  Maybe they knew their bad rep, and changed their name along with their direction.

[gpw11]

I think there may be a good chance that the Goldstar products we saw here aren't a reflection of the company as a whole back then.  It would just be weird if a company came out of the gutter that much in like 5 years.