Author Topic: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help - BUILT... WITH PICS!  (Read 18765 times)

Offline scottws

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Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help - BUILT... WITH PICS!
« on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 10:55:35 AM »
So I'm coming up with a computer wishlist.  I need help on a couple things.  First is a motherboard.  I'm going Intel this time around and I know practically nothing about Intel stuff.  I do know that I want an Intel-based board and not an nForce-based board.  But other than that I don't know what to look for.  A few suggestions would be nice, like a high-end board, a mid-range board, and a budget board.

Also, are there any truly Vista-compatible sound cards out?  I know Creative came up with sort of a hack, but I want something that works natively with both the XP and Vista audio architectures.
« Last Edit: Thursday, March 08, 2007, 01:02:59 PM by scottws »

Offline Antares

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 02:29:32 PM »

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 02:35:20 PM »
I always makes me happy whenever I see that Sharky Extreme is still around, especially their guides. Every computer I've built has been based around those articles. Not to the letter, but they've always given me a great place to start and the core of the system was generally pretty close to their's.

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 02:36:12 PM »
Eh.  After some research, it looks like I should wait.  It is a time of transition in the industry.  The new Intel chipset (P965) is apparently a complete piece of shit.  There is no IDE support in the chipset, which is a strange decision considering the IDE interface is still the norm for optical drives.  Manufacturers are including an add-on IDE controller to solve this problem, but apparently this has problems and it's hard to get drives to run in DMA mode.

Plus there are a lot of compatibility issues with motherboards, PSUs, and DDR2 memory.  And of course later DX10 cards will be coming out and bigger hard drives will be cheaper and truly Vista-compatible sound cards will be released.  Also you have the quad-core processors coming out.  Right now they are prohibitively expensive.

I know there is always something on the horizon to wait for in the PC industry, but in this case it seems like there is a very good reason to.

Offline iPPi

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 02:55:26 PM »
I am going to say wait a bit.

I'm hearing quad-cores will be picking up pretty soon, so if you wait a bit, you can get yourself a quad-core at a reasonable price, and wtfpwn everyone with your sexy machine.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 04:19:03 PM »
Eh.  After some research, it looks like I should wait.  It is a time of transition in the industry. . .

I started to post just exactly this when you first posted, but I thought I shouldn't rain on your parade.  I'm glad you came to the right conclusion.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #6 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 04:49:47 PM »
The DX10 cards are coming soon with affordable versions.

The 8800GTS 320 MB is out for $300 and is a DX10 card. Next month ATi is launching its DX 10 line and will launch its mid level DX10 cards a month after. I suggest you wait till then for sure.

Don't expect quad cores to get cheaper any time soon though. Intel will have some new dual core chips out in 6 months, but they have little motivation to better their processors. The problem is that AMD has no answers for another 12 months. Everything they release is running too hot and not a good enough competitor. The latest AMD quad core processors are bloody expensive plus they need an entirely new mobo and RAM. Also they are really hot and not nearly as good as Intel's Kentsfield. Personally I don't see the quad core dropping in price till its usage becomes more main stream.

The quad cores have no advantage in gaming yet, and even in multi tasking they don't make a massive difference for casual multi tasking. Where they do make a huge difference is really heavy stuff like video encoding or running HD DVDs.

The reason they don't help in gaming? Well because only recently was the F.E.A.R. engine updated to take advantage of dual core rigs. The other engine that takes advantage is the Half-Life engine.

That's it. From a gaming point of view, even single cores are fine.

The only engine that is designed to take advantage of quadcore processors is the CryENGINE2. Crytek revealed their intentions in some interviews, but in the recent CES show they weren't running the game on a quad core rig. Reports say that it is just not worth it for programmers to have engines take advantage of so many cores.

I think the difference is that these engines aren't designed from the ground up with more than one core in mind. Apparently the Alan Wake engine will also be utilizing the quad core setup.

As for compatibility issues, you will only have them if you buy weird brands in RAM.

Go for Kingston because it is easily the most reliable. Sure it isn't a great overclocker, but it is the staple of RAM.

For mobos, 965 are definitely not the latest. (edit: Yes they are the latest, my bad.)

Go for the Intel 975x powered Asus or MSI mobos.  You can also look up the Nforce 680i. If you use Kingston RAM with either of those you should be fine. It is when people go for ASROCK motherboards from China mixed with Gskill RAM from Hong Kong when that they get issues.

Even RAMS by OCZ, Mushkin, Patriot can give problems. Those RAMS are superb overclockers, but if you want stability, I would always suggest Kingston or even Corsair.

When motherboards are tested by manufacturers they use Kingston because of the stability.

But yes you should wait. Not because of processors, mobos or even RAM, but because the DX10 cards are going to be out in full force in two months. If you want something now, get the 8800GTS 320MB for $300. It is DX10 compliant and fairly affordable.

Here is some stuff on quad cores:

Quote

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34916

WE spoke with many developers including some big names and we learned that they can’t make much sense out of quad or more core CPUs. They confirm that they can put two cores to good use but not much more. The main problem is that the performance is far from scalable.
You have to spend both time and money to resource the programmer to try to make sense out f the dual core CPU. It takes up to a year to optimise the game for more threads and even if you make the perfect job you can count on twenty to thirty percent performance increase, and this is the best case scenario.

Once you start making the multi threaded game you end up making and having the multithreaded bugs as well.


You can keep one core busy with the physics and collision detection, second core will have to wait for the score to move on with the Artificial intelligence while the third core could possible calculate the graphic data. In this best case scenario you have to realise that the core number two and three would always have to wait for the core number one to finish its job and pass the job to the cores two and three. In this concept there is absolutely no place for quad core as games are non parallel applications. A game developer expert said that you can use the core number four to stream and load the data in the game and this is what the guys at Remedy did at IDF quad core demonstration. But this takes time and money and it is not commonly embraced by developers.

Game developers are in the dawn of dual core programming and now all the sudden AMD and Intel wants them to go quad core. For the time being Quad cores are good for rendering and serves but not for games.

So if you want to play games, you can forget about quad cores, you simply don’t need them and can gain just marginal performance out of them. Give the developers some time and this might change, but we are talking quarters not months. µ

Quote
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/14/opinion_quad_core_upgrade/

One application area that cannot quite handle the extra cores yet is gaming. Valve, developer of the Half-Life series recently explained its multi-core gaming strategy in detail and promised to bring multicore capability to its games in the first half of 2007. If Valve can translate its vision into reality, quad-core machines will be able to do stunning things with game code and enable, for example, physics simulations. Tom Leonard, one of Valve's multi-core gurus, told me that the first generation of dual-cores were somewhat of an disappointment for game developers, which turned very quickly into hope with the Core 2 Duo and sparked excitement with the quad-core.

While game developers are likely to have to invest more time and money into their games to take advantage of multi-core technology, games will become more "present" for the user. Leonard explained that "game worlds will be much more responsive to a player" and we will see a "transition where game characters will be as smart and interesting as they are good looking right now." Valve appears to be a game developer that may be playing an important role in determining how multi-core capable games will look like in the near future, but the company still hesitates to actually recommend a quad-core upgrade to its gamers. "We won't tell them to upgrade, and that is not really the question," Leonard said. "Our users will upgrade anyway."

So, will users with quad-cores have an advantage over users who are running dual-cores? Valve says no. "People tend to make this problem a little more complicated than it really is. We never would introduce a feature which would depend on a piece of hardware and could result in better players just because of that. We want to make our customers happy. Doing something like that would work against that goal, it's that simple," Leonard told me.

Here is an article on Alan Wake and how it does take advantage:

Quote
With the move from single-core to dual-core processors well underway, and the imminent arrival of Intel's new quad-core processors, the push is on to find applications that will take advantage of all this multiprocessing power. Historically, games have been at the vanguard of demonstrating the power of new systems, and the move to multiple cores is no exception to this rule. While many developers have expressed frustration with the difficulty required to develop multithreaded games, others are more eager to jump on the bandwagon. One such developer is Remedy, who showed off their upcoming title, Alan Wake, at the Intel Developer Forum being held in San Francisco.

The demo was staged on a quad-core "Kentsfield" (Core 2 Extreme QX6700) processor that had been overclocked to 3.73 GHz. The game was described as a "psychological action thriller," and it did not lack for action. One of the major features of the game engine is a dynamic world renderer that has no visible seams or loading boundaries. To show this in action, Remedy employee Markus Mäki began a new game and immediately pulled back the camera a great distance, panning around the world in a manner usually only seen in tourism videos.

The world was not just a beautiful but static painting, either. Dynamic weather effects and volumetric lighting made the world seem much more real. A tornado was unleashed on an unsuspecting small town and objects were thrown around in a swirl of destruction.

How did quad cores make this possible? One core was devoted entirely to preparing scenes for delivery to the Graphics Processing Unit, or GPU. Another core spent all of its time working on physics calculations. A third handled internal game logic, with the fourth available for sound processing and other miscellaneous tasks.

The game looked extremely impressive, delivering a definite "next-gen" experience. Consoles such as the Xbox 360 that contain three CPU cores (and also the PS3, with its asymmetric design featuring a single core augmented by several smaller processing units) will also be able to take advantage of games that use multiple threads in this manner. As developers gain more experience dealing with the headaches of multithreaded programming, and dual and quad-core processors become more and more common, look for gaming to take a significant leap forward in terms of realism and graphics prowess.

The process is not easy, but the rewards are clearly great. Once a game is multithreaded, it automatically takes advantage of more cores, so developer should be able to ship a game that will run on single, dual, or quad-core CPUs, but perform better the more cores the user has. Unfortunately, writing multithreaded code is still more difficult than traditional single-threaded programming. Developers have to worry about issues such as race conditions, where two processors are modifying the same bit of memory at the same time without locking it, but overzealous use of locking can lead to deadlock conditions where each processor is waiting for the other one to release a necessary resource. However, developers that can handle these issues will have a major advantage in delivering games that really shine on the next generation of hardware.


Quote
]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060929-7868.html

Intel's quad-cores have been released, and inevitably, there are plenty of propagandist "reviews" that tell you, "You have to have this now."

Uhhh, noooo.

Our objection to quad-core has been that there's no point laying out an arm and a leg for a processor until it either does you some real good, or it stops costing an arm and a leg. Problem is, neither is going to apply to most people any time soon.

Now those who insist you need one now aren't saying, "You need to buy this now because CPU companies need to make a lot of money off somebody these days," but it's pretty hard not to come to any other conclusion after seeing their benchmarks. Excluding a few professional apps which specifically use multithreading (and even most of them aren't terribly well optimized for four yet), there's little improvement from four core (and in all honesty, it's not like everything is tweaked up for two cores yet, either).

But of course they can't say that, so instead they begin by saying what their own numbers force them to say, but then, to make the marketing people happy, they pay the piper and tell you that games will be taking advantage of four cores next year.

You have to read these articles closely to discover that:


only a handful of games plan on using four-cores
they won't show up for about a year
the games won't take full advantage of all those cores


See that's why I don't see the price dropping. It will be two years before quad core is fully taken advantage of and thus made main stream by most developers.




« Last Edit: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 11:09:29 PM by Pugnate »

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #7 on: Saturday, February 17, 2007, 11:51:56 PM »
Pug, I'm pretty sure the 975X chipset is older than the P965.  Thanks for the info though.

Quote from: Anandtech
The P965 chipset has certainly evoked a lot of different emotions around our test labs as well as around the various hardware sites and forums. This chipset was hyped as the next 440BX in some circles and promoted ad nauseam before, during, and after Computex last year. At first look this chipset seemed to be an instant replacement for the venerable 975X as it costs less, sports an improved memory controller (at least on paper), and supports all Intel processors from NetBurst (Celeron through Pentium D) to Core 2 Duo, as well as the latest Core 2 Quad offerings.

...

Why hasn't the P965 obliterated the other chipsets in the market sector? Obviously one important factor is pricing as it appears there will not be any $60 P965 boards soon (or perhaps ever). That leaves the budget market to Intel's previous generation chipsets and competitors like VIA or SIS. Unfortunately, with the AMD buyout of ATI we will not see competitive chipsets from ATI in the Core 2 Duo market except for the performance oriented RD600 that is currently being offered from DFI. We also see very good 975X boards such as the DFI Infinity and Intel D975XBX2 in the $160 to $199 range now that offer excellent performance for the price.

The other important factor is performance, as Intel's 975X still offers better clock for clock performance when compared to the P965 in most situations. We expect this to change to some degree as the P965 continues to mature, and additional BIOS tweaks such as 1T command rates should be fully working in the near future. The 975X's front side bus will not overclock as high as the P965, but due to relaxed MCH timings and memory strap changes it is difficult to take advantage of the higher P965 front side bus speeds without premium memory and cooling solutions.

...

The 975X also offers 8x8 CrossFire capability while the P965 has been limited to a 16x4 hybrid solution. We have not discovered much difference in performance at the lower resolutions, but as game engines and future video cards require greater bandwidth then the P965's CrossFire performance will be hampered. The good news is that the upcoming release of the Bearlake chipset family will feature a performance oriented version with true dual x16 capability. We might even see a few upcoming P965 motherboards offer a revised PCIe controller chip that allows 8x8x4 or 16x0x4 operation with CrossFire performance exceeding that of 975X in 8x8 mode.

Source:  http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2914

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 12:27:38 AM »
I am sorry for the mistake. I always assumed 975 was newer because it was much better. On Anandtech they said 965 was for budget users while 975 is for high end. I always assumed the 975 was just newer.. :P

975X vs. P965

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/975X-P965-ftopict198762.html

I currently have the Asus P5WDH Deluxe and it supports Kentsfield i.e. the quad core processor. It is a pretty fantastic mobo.

BTW, you are right. The 965 has many issues, but it is also cheaper. You can get a decent P965 mobo for about $120 while a 975x will cost you around $200. If you can research what P965 works well with what RAM you should be OK. I'd stay safe and stick with the the better mobo.

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 09:15:50 AM »
Any word on when Intel plans to release the "Bearlake" chipset?

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #10 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 12:24:08 PM »
I think it is supposed to hit us around third quarter from what I read on the anandtech forum. It is the proper successor to the 975 and will  have a nice jump in FSB.

The issue with a next gen. Intel chipset vs a next gen AMD chipset is that Intel always likes to make the first move when it comes to RAM.  Bearlake will be sweet but will start the DDR3 revolution. I don't think it was until AM2 from AMD that DDR2 became mainstream enough for the prices to be half decent.

DDR3 is going to be really expensive initially.

I don't understand something. If video cards are so quick to move to faster RAM usage, why not motherboards? The new ATi card will feature DDR4! I guess I am comparing apples and oranges though.

Also I think RAM speed is a bit overrated. I mean it is fine to get DDR2 800 if you are going to overclock, but from benchmarks I've noted that the difference between 667 and 800 in games is about a frame or so.

The only advantage of having 800 is that it allows you a better overclock.
« Last Edit: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 10:57:09 PM by Pugnate »

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #11 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 02:09:15 PM »
What the hell?  DDR3?  Didn't DDR2 just start being popular last year?  Crazy.  DDR has been around a long time but it seems like they are changing RAM technologies a lot faster now.  It's kind of ridiculous.

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 10:35:53 PM »
I think I'm changing my mind.  I think I'm going to get something, just with the 975X chipset.  It won't be a high-end machine, but it will still be a pretty darn goodd one.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 10:40:23 PM »
Yea Intel is always the first to jump on the next DDR boat. They were the first to go for DDR2 and it wasn't till AMD came to the DDR2 party that prices started to get reasonable.

Here is more on DDR3 and Bearlake.

http://digg.com/hardware/Intel_P35_Bearlake_DDR3_motherboard_spotted

It is a bit ridiculous I guess, if we consider how much we've invested in our RAM and going to bearlake would mean reinvesting in new RAM. But DDR2 ran its length a long while ago, and anything faster than DDR2 800 requires a special manufacturing effort since DDR2 has been pretty much pushed to its limit from what I understand.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, February 18, 2007, 10:54:11 PM »
I think I'm changing my mind.  I think I'm going to get something, just with the 975X chipset.

Three of the better mobos right now are:

1. Asus P5WDH Deluxe. From what I researched it has the best stability and was the overclocking champion till recently. I actually was looking for the P5BD by Asus as it was cheaper and seemed to do the job, but they were out of stock so I thought what the hell.

2. Nforce 680i: This is the overclocking champion by far, and is currently the most recommended mobo for enthusiasts. Also check out its little brother 650i which is far more practical in terms of price, yet provides similar performance. I wanted this initally, but again it wasn't available so I went for the P5W. I've been reading an alarming number of posts on toms and anadtech about problems though, which is interesting because the official reviews are very positive.

3. MSI 975X Power Up. My little bro's computer died yesterday so my father is buying him a new comp. This is the mobo they are getting. It got a Tom's Hardware award and it is the lowest priced of the best 975X mobos. Anadtech loves it as well. The first version had some issues so they phased it out and released a version 2, which they named MSI 975X Platinum Power Up. It seems to be the cheapest and most stable 975X mobo. Good overclocker too from what I understand. My bro. found it for $140 in Saudi Arabia, so I don't know what it is going for the world over.

From what I understand most of the top 975X mobos support Kentsfield easily.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/11/four_975x_motherboards_for_core_2_duo/page15.html

Also everyone at anandtech helped me a lot.

http://forums.anandtech.com/

For motherboards:

http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.aspx?catid=29&entercat=y


Offline idolminds

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #15 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 12:51:13 AM »
I need to build a new PC, but probably a little later in the year when the whole DX10 stuff settles down a bit.

Or sooner, because my videocard is artifacting recently....

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #16 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 06:23:27 AM »
1. Asus P5WDH Deluxe. From what I researched it has the best stability and was the overclocking champion till recently. I actually was looking for the P5BD by Asus as it was cheaper and seemed to do the job, but they were out of stock so I thought what the hell.
I looked at this one but it is really pricey and uses the crappy Realtek audio chip.


2. Nforce 680i: This is the overclocking champion by far, and is currently the most recommended mobo for enthusiasts. Also check out its little brother 650i which is far more practical in terms of price, yet provides similar performance. I wanted this initally, but again it wasn't available so I went for the P5W. I've been reading an alarming number of posts on toms and anadtech about problems though, which is interesting because the official reviews are very positive.
I'm not interested in the nForce chipsets.  The nForce 2 and 3 great, but since then they've been having serious issues, as you said.


3. MSI 975X Power Up. My little bro's computer died yesterday so my father is buying him a new comp. This is the mobo they are getting. It got a Tom's Hardware award and it is the lowest priced of the best 975X mobos. Anadtech loves it as well. The first version had some issues so they phased it out and released a version 2, which they named MSI 975X Platinum Power Up. It seems to be the cheapest and most stable 975X mobo. Good overclocker too from what I understand. My bro. found it for $140 in Saudi Arabia, so I don't know what it is going for the world over.
This is the one I'm looking at right now.

I kind of wanted one that had a PCIe 4x slot because I'm eyeing a 3ware RAID adapter that uses PCIe 4x.  I found only one board that had it on Newegg, and it didn't have some other things I was looking for.  But from what I understand, I can just use the extra PCIe 16x slot (not planning on doing Crossfire or SLI).

Now to pick out a videocard...

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #17 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 09:56:08 AM »
Not waiting for DX10?

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #18 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 10:37:34 AM »
Pug, nah, DX10 won't really be mainstream for quite some time.  Even so, a DX10 card that comes out in 6 months would probably struggle under a DX10 game anyway.  I guess I could get a mid-range card for now and upgrade it to a newer card later.

Ok, someone help me find out where I'm killing the price of this rig and just wasting money.  The current price is just way higher than I want to pay.

The 500GB hard drive might be a bit much, I guess, but I definitely want a smallish OS/app drive and a big data drive.  It used to be worse, I had the small OS/app drive as a WD raptor 74 GB at $140.  I may be able to go smaller on the data drive I guess, but $140 isn't bad at all for a whisper-quiet SATAII 500GB drive. 

Also, keep in mind I'm trying to build a relatively quiet system, hence the 120mm-supporting CPU heatsink and fairly expensive case fans which use the fluid dynamic bearing type.

I guess I could ditch the DVD burner, but then I'd either have too pull over my current and much too long IDE cable or order a new, short IDE cable.  I have extra SATA cables.


PartCategoryPriceQuantityTotal
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400CPU$222.00
1
$222.00
MSI 975X Platinum v2Motherboard$164.99
1
$164.99
MSI NX8800GTS (nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB)Video card$339.99
1
$339.99
Western Digital WD800JD (80GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$43.99
1
$43.99
Samsung HD501LJ (500GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$139.99
1
$139.99
Antec TruePower Trio TP3-550 (550W)Power supply$91.99
1
$91.99
OCZ ATi Crossfire 2 GB OCZ2A8002GK (DDR2 800 2 x 1 GB)Memory$180.99
1
$180.99
Thermalright XP-120CPU heatsink$49.99
1
$49.99
Thermalright LGA775 retention bracket for XP-120Accessories$4.99
1
$4.99
Lian Li PC-A05BCase$99.99
1
$99.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F 120mmCase fan$15.99
1
$15.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mmCase fan$15.99
2
$29.98
LITE ON LH-20A1S (DVD+/-RW DL SATAII)Optical drive$46.99
1
$46.98
Total (after rebates)$1,430.87


Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #19 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 11:46:04 AM »
I was talking to someone here at work and he said the big problem with the P965 chipset is the IDE support, but if I'm planning on getting a SATA optical drive, why worry about IDE.  The P965 chipset boards are cheaper...

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #20 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 01:13:50 PM »
hhaha I thought you didn't want to go DX10?

You can save $50 if you go for the 320 MB version of that card. In most situations there doesn't seem to be a difference but if you use high resolutions like 1600x1200 then the 320MB is really lacking.

But I have the same processor. With that RAM you can quite easily hit 2.8... easily.

Sorry if I have no practical suggestions.

Offline scottws

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #21 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 02:26:53 PM »
What if I went with a Geforce 7950 GT?  That would save me about $100.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #22 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 03:04:09 PM »
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2926

They've benchmarked from 7950GT and up. No one can answer the question better than you. It is up to what you require.

edit:

If you don't plan to overclock then sure go for a cheaper motherboard that is reliable. You can even go for slower RAM if that makes sense to you. You can stick with 667 instead of 800 and see how much that saves you. Check out benchmarks between DDR2 667 and 800 and see if it is worth the the extra $100 to go for the DDR2 800.

edit:

The RAM is $180! :O

I guess prices went down. I remember not too long ago when Gskill DDR2800 was $320! Crazy stuff.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #23 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 03:40:59 PM »
Yeah, that's super-cheap.  My Corsair XMS PC2700 512 MB stick was $190 alone when I built my current system, and the 128 MB stick was $95.

OCZ is a decent brand, right?

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #24 on: Monday, February 19, 2007, 10:41:41 PM »
Oh yea OCZ is a great brand. I'd have bought that in a heartbeat when building my system. They started with some of the best power supplies in the business and then moved to RAM and now even video cards. They are coming out with their own 8800GTX 768 I think. Their RAM has some great heat spreaders.

Also DDR2 had really sky rocketed in the past year. Looks like it has come down.

Once you select your mobo you can research how compatible it is with that RAM.



Nice spreaders. Looks very sexy haha.


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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2007, 10:02:26 AM »
Ok, I shaved off $100 by getting a different heatsink that's better and a couple bucks cheaper, a 400 GB hard drive instead of 500 GB, a 320 MB version of the Geforce 8800 GTS instead of a 640 MB version, and a P965 board.

The RAM price went up on the ATi-sponsored stuff, so I went with a plain platinum one.


PartCategoryPriceQuantityTotal
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400CPU$222.00
1
$222.00
Asus P5B-E (P965 chipset)Motherboard$150.99
1
$150.99
EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR (nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320 MB)Video card$279.99
1
$279.99
Western Digital WD800JD (80GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$43.99
1
$43.99
Samsung HD400LJ (400GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$109.99
1
$109.99
Antec TruePower Trio TP3-550 (550W)Power supply$91.99
1
$91.99
OCZ Platinum Revision 2 OCZ2P800R22GK (DDR2 800 2 x 1 GB)Memory$185.99
1
$185.99
Thermalright SI-120CPU heatsink$47.99
1
$47.99
Thermalright LGA775 retention bracket for SI-120Accessories$4.99
1
$4.99
Lian Li PC-A05BCase$99.99
1
$99.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F 120mmCase fan$15.99
1
$15.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mmCase fan$15.99
2
$29.98
LITE ON LH-20A1S (DVD+/-RW DL SATAII)Optical drive$46.99
1
$46.98
Total (after rebates)$1,329.87


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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2007, 10:29:14 AM »
The problem now is that several critical things listed are not in stock:  The Thermalright SI-120 and its retention bracket, the SFF21E case fans, and the optical drive.  The optical drive shows an in-stock ETA of 2/24 so that's fine, but the other things have no ETA.

I guess I'll wait until the drive is in stock and then check the status of the other items at that time.  I may have to purchase some things from other vendors.  Too bad Directron doesn't have nearly the catalog that Newegg does.  They don't have any of the out-of-stock items I'm looking for.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday, February 20, 2007, 04:04:47 PM »
I solved the heatsink problems by changing my selection to a SI-128, which is in stock.  At $56.99, it is $9 more expensive than the SI-120, but it supports the LGA775 socket by default which means I don't have to buy the $5 retention clip.  I've located it for cheaper (as low as $49.99) from other places, but I'd rather not include a vendor other than Newegg and Directron if I don't have have to.

The SFF21E case fan is in stock for the same price at Directron, and since I was already thinking of getting my PSU there ($8 cheaper than at Newegg), it works out nicely.

The LH-20A1S optical drive I'll either have to wait for or get from another vendor.  Directron doesn't carry it.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday, February 21, 2007, 07:19:17 AM »
I guess you'd want to get as much stuff as possible from one seller. I am pleased to see you are getting sufficient cooling.

Also the DX10 cards that were supposed to launch on March 18 from ATi -- well they were actually supposed to come November -- have possibly been delayed till July. Again this is just a rumor, but it is a blow for those who wanted other DX10 choices.

The only reason I went for an 8800GTX was because it was also the best DX9 performer. For me, DX10 was a bonus in case as I plan to sell the card when the ATi DX10 hits.


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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #29 on: Thursday, February 22, 2007, 07:06:16 AM »
Freaking Newegg man.  They deleted both of my hard drive selections from their online store, and the RAM price went up huge!  It used to be $185.99 two days ago after rebate and now it's $205.99!  That's insane!  How can they do this?

Edit:  Just checked, and that ATi-sponsored stuff went down from $190.99 to $185.99.  Guess I'm back to that again.

Also, the case dropped in price another $10.  Looks like they are trying to get rid of it.  I think I'm going to order tomorrow.  We'll see.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #30 on: Thursday, February 22, 2007, 09:47:36 AM »
Yea well meanwhile ATi's DX10 line has been definitely postponed and people are going apeshit. I think a lot have been waiting to upgrade and have been putting it off solely because of the R600. It has gotten delayed since last November and now the internet has gone bonkers over this.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #31 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:21:20 AM »
Banks suck.  I deposited $2200 yesterday, but I only have like $1100 available today (about $20 more than I had in there prior to the deposit).  My two big checks didn't go through yet (both from my University).

I called the bank and bitched them out, saying, "You think the University of Cincinnati isn't good for the money?  It's not like they were checks from Joe Blow."  I also brought up Check 21 and how I thought it was bullshit because I know my bank has that money now, they just aren't making it availalbe to me now for some shitty reason.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #32 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:40:11 AM »
Banks suck the world over I am afraid. Here it is really bad. Sometimes a TT comes in and they are too 'busy' to put it through. Once I had a minor emergency and had my dad write me some cash.

The wire showed up but they forgot to clear it so I could see it in my account yet couldn't touch it. It was tantalizing because what followed was a four day holiday followed by the weekend.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #33 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:43:16 AM »
I just think it's bullshit.  You know the money is transferred like instantaneously.  The banks just hold onto it for a day or two so they can "verify" it.  I think verification is another bank term for "hold onto it so we can collect interest off of your money."

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #34 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 09:49:27 AM »
Anyway, I ended getting suckered into some things.  I decided to buy this Newegg CD case that holds 24 CDs for $10.  Kind of a ripoff, but when I'm spending that kind of money, why not, you know?  Well they had a combo deal available when purchasing the CD case for a 100 pack of DVD-R 16x discs from TDK for like $20.  It was $8 off the normal price for the combo deal.  I thought $20 was a really awesome price for that amount of 16X DVD-Rs from a reputable manufacturer so I took it.

Also, at Directron I bought my power supply.  On the page where you add it to your cart you can add a power cable and tools and some other things.  I ended up getting a power cable, a gasket for the power supply to reduce vibration, and some wire loom. Cha-ching!

One thing I thought was cool is that Directron offers power supply testing prior to shipping.  It was $5 and I didn't take it, but I thought it was a nice service nonetheless.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #35 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:03:33 AM »
Last year my father bought two pieces of land here totaling over seven hundred grand. He wasn't here, so he had my mother make the payment through their joint account. She wrote a pay order confirmed by the bank for the sum and it was the end of the month.

Anyway to our embarrassment the pay order was held, because they said her signature wasn't correct. Later when we looked at it, the signature was perfect. We later found out from our lawyer that since it was the end of the month the bank manager had come up with an excuse to hold the money for a few more days so that he could show larger bank deposits to his superiors.

Quote
One thing I thought was cool is that Directron offers power supply testing prior to shipping.  It was $5 and I didn't take it, but I thought it was a nice service nonetheless.

Never heard of them, but will check it out. That's a pretty interesting thing to offer. Don't they have warranties anyway? Also I have the same PSU. I am glad we don't need more power than that. At one time it was rumored that we will need 800 watts.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #36 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:24:53 AM »
Directron has better prices than Newegg on some things, worse on others.  Their selection is much smaller, and they don't have the order history feature that Newegg does (I love the fact that I can print a receipt from 5 years ago at Newegg). 

They also are kind of lacking occasionally in the product descriptions.  Like I found a Seagate drive there for a dollar cheaper than at Newegg, but it doesn't say it supports NCQ like it does at Newegg (which is kind of a big deal IMO).  Also, I found some black wire loom that came in 0.75", 1", 1.5" and 2" "sizes."  When looking at the description, it said it was "half inch in diameter."  So I was thoroughly confused.  I posted a question to their forum, and a support team member said the description was incorrect and would be fixed, that the "sizes" were in fact the actual diameter.

But it's a reputable, competitive company.  I'm not sure if they do international shipping or not.


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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #37 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:27:56 AM »
Yea even NewEgg doesn't ship. Tigerdirect does though. The only reason I go to NewEgg often is to check out the user reviews of stuff. I often find it more informative than official websites. I think it is because the hardware websites get the best product to review.

An example is that 680i mobo. It got rave reviews all over the internet as the best Intel mobo on the market. Yet all the fans disagree because they can't seem to get a well functioning one.

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #38 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:11:02 PM »
Well, here is my final build.  As mentioned, I ordered some extras but I'm not including them here.  This is just what is going inside the PC.


PartCategoryPriceQuantityTotal
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400CPU$222.00
1
$222.00
Asus P5B-E (P965 chipset)Motherboard$150.99
1
$150.99
EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR (nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS 320 MB)Video card$299.99
1
$299.99
Seagate ST380811AS (80GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$43.99
1
$43.99
Samsung HD501LJ (500GB SATAII 7200rpm)Hard drive$139.99
1
$139.99
Antec TruePower Trio TP3-550 (550W)Power supply$91.99
1
$91.99
OCZ ATi Crossfire Certified OCZ2A8002GK (DDR2 800 2 x 1 GB)Memory$209.99
1
$209.99
Thermalright SI-128CPU heatsink$56.99
1
$56.99
Lian Li PC-A05BCase$89.99
1
$89.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F 120mmCase fan$15.99
1
$15.99
Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mmCase fan$15.99
2
$29.98
LITE ON LH-20A1S (DVD+/-RW DL SATAII)Optical drive$42.20
1
$42.20
Anti-vibration power supply gasketAccessories$2.99
1
$2.99
5' of 0.5" black wire loomAccessories$7.00
1
$7.00
Black 4" cable tiesAccessories$4.99
1
$4.99
Subtotal$1,409.07
Shipping$60.00
Total$1,469.07
Rebates$45
Total (after rebates)$1,424.07


Ouch.  But hey it'll be sweet right?  And best of all, it should be fairly quiet.  I might have to look into an aftermarket cooler for the videocard though.  I already have the feeling that thing will make a racket.

Newegg is weird.  That RAM has gone down $5.00 since my order this morning, and the case went back up $10.00.  I just don't get it.  Why do they mess with the prices so much?

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Re: Coming up with a computer wishlist, need help
« Reply #39 on: Friday, February 23, 2007, 10:38:31 PM »
Looks really good, but are you sure you want to sacrifice the better mobo for what $14? I mean you are spending more than that on the extras. :P

With the MSI 975X you can go to quadcore in a few years, instead of having to spend another $150 on a new mobo. For all we know you will need a new mobo anyway for some reason, but I think it is worth the extra $14.