Topic: Viva Piņata has problems

[Cobra951]

I got this game a couple of weeks ago, and I've been playing it off and on.  It's very time-consuming and addictive, and that's led to unintentional marathon sessions.  While I've gotten the hang of most things by now, I've felt generally lost on too many occasions, and at first I was overwhelmed.  This seemed odd to me, given all the praise the game has garnered, and given that it's meant to be kid-friendly.  It definitely does not feel like a relaxing sandbox game.  You have to put out fires so often that little time is left to just look at the whole thing, and figure out ways to add some design to the layout, or even figure out how things work.

I was looking for something completely different this morning (related to native HDTV resolutions not matching HDTV standards such as 720P, and how the X360 has failed to handle it all properly) when I ran across a very different review of Viva Piņata.  Suddenly, my feelings about the game made more sense.  If you've played the game, see what you think.  I think it's not as bad as all that, but the review definitely rings true to me in several points.

[Quemaqua]

I'd disagree with it almost entirely in terms of tone.  But mostly just in terms of tone.  My spin is different, but that doesn't change the facts.  It's not a bad game, it's not broken, and I don't think it's thin on content.  However, I agree that the pacing is way off (it's way too fast), the alert system is borderline broken (or maybe just useless), and the game is unreasonably punishing.  Julia played it for quite a while and was really enjoying it, but eventually she had to stop because she found it way too depressing.  The animals fight constantly and there's no good way to keep them from doing so, there is an absolutely mountainous number of little problems that can happen to your garden and stop you from getting any enjoyment out of it for more than 10 seconds, and the systems are generally just too much bordering on the edge of things.  It's too easy to fail.  Add some rather odd bugs on top of that, and you have a game that's really pretty brilliant, well done in a lot of ways, and a great deal of fun, but that seems to thwart your attempts at fun at almost every turn.  The fact that it doesn't entirely succeed is pretty amazing, but it doesn't bode well for the overall implementation of most of the game's concepts.  Case in point, it's a great game that just didn't get all it needed in terms of balancing.  I can't imagine letting my kid play it for the simple fact that he would go insane with sorrow after a few hours of watching his animals die, get sick, and generally fall prey to the game's more unmanageable aspects.

So yeah... while I really don't agree with the tone of this guy's review because I don't see the game in quite the same light, it's impossible not to agree with him on a lot of levels.  I go back and forth with it, as you may have guessed, but it's plainly obvious that there's just something off about the game.  There's a problem when my wife can't play it because she finds it often depressing, and even more of a problem when I can't help but agree.  I really don't want to watch my cute frog burst into tears and cry because of some arbitrary thing, then get slaughtered by an evil doctor when I'm off trying to remedy said frog's sadness.  This game is, if you think about the details long enough, pretty fucked up.

[Pugnate]

The Cliff-umentaries are legend, by now - everyone has seen how hard the Gears of War team had to fight to keep basic principles alive, to protect their game from being watered down and destroyed by Microsoft's marketing. It doesn't really matter what you think of Microsoft, or of Epic; these fly on the wall cameras document behaviour that's strikinglly obvious: Epic fought tooth and nail to retain key elements of their game design, and nearly lost the battle more than once; if not for Cliffy, much of the signature that we see in Gears just wouldn't exist.

Wow, what's he talking about? Anyone have links to this?

[scottws]

I too am really interested.

Considering the glowing reviews for Gears of War and the fact that it is probably the hottest seller for the 360 now, I wonder if Microsoft may consider changing their behavior?  I doubt it, but you never know.

[iPPi]

The link is dead.

Anyway, I have this game, and I play it on and off every once in a while.  The key to this game is the fact that you need to know what you're doing.  If, for example, you start getting a lot of different pinata species in your garden, it's very easy to become excessively overwhelmed and it can become a nightmare.  The primary goal of the game is to get the best pinatas, so you start of with the little ones; breed 'em til you've got the master romancer, then sell them all off (unless you need them for something else, like attracting other pinatas).

It's very very important to keep your garden at a manageable complexity.  As it grows, and more pinatas live in it, it becomes really complicated and becomes a micromanagement nightmare.  I stopped a while because of that, and decided to read a guide at gamefaqs to see how I could get some other pinatas and things, and was able to focus myself again.

[Cobra951]

I noticed a lot of dead links at that site.  The review still comes up for me, but I think it's because it's in my cache.  It looks like they're doing maintenance, or the site just went down.  I saved the review locally, so if it doesn't come back soon, I'll post it somehow.

I have figured out some things.  Happy candy seems to prevent fights.  I monitor the happiness level of the more aggressive pinatas, and I spend 300 coins or so on spreding happy candy when that gets low.  Another thing I did is let the fudgehogs die.  Screw them.  They're too much trouble and money.   

Que, I'm confused by your post.  Care to clarify a bit?  On the one hand you concluded that the game is "pretty fucked up", but on the other, you're saying you can't agree with the reviewer.

[iPPi]

Aww man, I loved those fudgehogs.  They were awesome. 

I'm working on getting badgesicles right now though.  I also got the Fox one as well.  It's become a little complicated over on my garden, so I'm thinking about selling a lot of my pinatas after becoming a master romancer to get money and to simplify matters.

[Cobra951]

I wasn't aware that you could sell piņatas until the last time I played.  I happened to select one by accident when I was selling off some trees.  Those fudgehogs may be cute, but damn, they are assholes!  Fight fight fight . . . with others and with themselves.  I have the fox-like piņatas.  Just built them a house.  Still have not figured out their sex lives, though.  I have badgesicles visit all the time now, but they need to eat a newtgat, which I lost somehow earlier.  I hired the hunter, but so far, no newtgat replacement.

I also lost a cat.  Bought it, it seemed happy.  Next thing I know, he's gone.  With the pig, I did something different.  I built him a pen, using wooden fence and a gate.  I dug him a little pond.  He's been safe there for a long time.  Once in a while, one of my sprinklings opens the gate and he gets out, but he is easily directed back to his pen.

Then I saw that there's a pig house available.  I don't know.  I'd rather keep him away from possible danger full-time.  I figured domestic animals should get fenced in, unlike wild ones.  Is the assumption wrong?

[iPPi]

It's interesting that you say your pinatas leave.  I don't think I've had a pinata leave my garden once they've become resident.  I've got myself a dog, he seems to sleep a lot

[Quemaqua]

Houses are all about breeding.  You need a house to breed your animals.  Apparently I got much further along than either of you, as Julia and I were both quite a ways up the pinata-chain the last times we played.  If you think it's confusing now, just wait.

To further clarify my above statement... I mostly don't agree with the guy's tone.  He makes the game sound like a total disaster, which I don't think it is.  I think it needs some tweaking and has a lot of problems, but I don't think it's unplayable or broken.  It's just pretty tough, and being the game is directed toward kids, it's *way* too hard.

[Pugnate]

I too am really interested.

Considering the glowing reviews for Gears of War and the fact that it is probably the hottest seller for the 360 now, I wonder if Microsoft may consider changing their behavior?  I doubt it, but you never know.

I don't mean to take this off topic, but I want to add a quote form my review of HALO:

Once you discover the flood, the game changes from Halo to Serious Sam. And though it is still very entertaining in the latter half, it just looses imagination. It is when the structures start repeating themselves often and the game starts sticking to old school rather than something new that it had started. Mind you the last half is still great action, but it isn't as revolutionary as the first.

It is as if Bungie were developing a certain style of game when they were almost forced to change their paths. Like some suits barged in putting knives to their throats and said,"We need need some more shooting in this. There just isn't enough shooting."

The change brought about by the flood almost felt unnatural, as if it were forced.

That was how I felt when I reviewed Halo all those years ago. And now it makes sense. I am sure some of the creative changes were forced by Microsoft, like the repeating architecture. I am sure it was put in to artificially increase the length of the game.

Credit to Epic, if what was said above is true.

[Cobra951]

It's interesting that you say your pinatas leave.  I don't think I've had a pinata leave my garden once they've become resident.  I've got myself a dog, he seems to sleep a lot

I didn't say that they left.  Most likely, they were eaten, or made ill and Dastardos smashed them before I even noticed.

Which reminds me, what's up with using a happy "tadaaa!" to mean a piņata is sick?  Who thought up that wonderful sound cue?

Edit:  The site I linked is back.