Topic: R6:Vegas is one helluva game.

[Pugnate]

What a return to greatness for the franchise. I've been a hardcore Rainbow Six fan since the first game. I think I have every installment in the franchise, though the last few purchases were probably more out of loyalty as the series has gone embarrassingly downhill. Rainbow Six the king of tactical shooters, the innovator of the one shot kill, and the only game that had a planning phase as exciting as the execution. Lately the game had been seriously lacking in innovation, and had been stripped of a lot of toughness to suit the console kiddies.

Well I've been playing Vegas for the past three and a half hours and it is quite excellent despite some of the changes. The tactics have been very much nerfed. In the past the game featured multiple scenarios which required planning with multiple teams at your disposal. So far this game has been about controlling a team of three, and the mission has been unbelievably long for such a small team. 

Still it retains much of what gave the original R6 games their identity and mixes that with the much needed new Unreal engine. Even at the height of the series, R6 lacked the feel when it came to firefights. While it was superb on tactics, it lacked the visceral feel that R6:Vegas gives to a firefight.

So far Vegas has been extremely exciting and has plenty of blood pumping moments. I am finding it a touch easy though and am playing on realistic mode, which is only realistic in name. In the past a well placed shot was enough to kill you or your team mates. Currently even at a realistic setting this isn't the case. I understand why they made that decision, since this is very different from the multiple missions of the past. This seems to have basically one very focused campaign like many typical shooters.

Vegas really looks sexy though. I haven't got a good screenie of the motion blur, but the effect looks very sweet when you get hit. The desert outdoors have a very similar look to the yellow lens shots in the movie Traffic. The team command options are fairly well streamlined, and the AI is quite excellent. The teammates follow orders brilliantly, and the enemy AI is extremely challenging and very realistic.

It is a worthy restart to the franchise, and I am sure Xessive would love this game. I hope in the future they work a little harder on the PC version though, to incorporate a bit more realism and make it even more tactical. But so far it is quite excellent, and very focused.

[Ghandi]

Wow, those screens look amazing. I've always been a bit R6 fan, I wish my comp could run this.

[iPPi]

Yep Vegas is an amazing game.

Playing it on the 360 was a phenomenal experience.

I too loved the original R6, and that's what really got me started into PC gaming; I was pretty casual PC gamer in the past, but R6 started it.  I didn't really like any of the subsequent sequels to the original though, and each one became worst.

R6: Vegas returns to form and revolutionizes the fps and tactical shooter genre.

Edit:  Ghandi, of course it looks good.  It's running the Unreal 3 engine.

[HxCeddie]

Yeah the game is unreal. Whenever I get a chance, I still try to beat the game on hard and it's still the best multiplayer game on 360.

[NatchDan]

I'm not commenting on the game or anything, and those screens do look pretty sweet, but I couldn't help thinking of this when I saw them.

[scottws]

I played a bit of the single player demo but hated it.  Then again, I hated the original Rainbow Six, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me.

[iPPi]

I can't stress this enough, but the opening mission in Mexico kinda sucked in R6: Vegas.  Once you actually get to Vegas, it's a complete blast to the end.

If only the ending was a little more satisfying, and the campaign a little longer, it would be a near perfect single player experience.

The multiplayer is also fantastic.

[scottws]

Well the demo mission is in Vegas.

[Quemaqua]

I liked the first game but have moved on since then.  Those screens look freaking great, though.  I could almost be interested in this... just almost.  But not quite.

And Dan, you read VG Cats enough to recall a strip.  I knew you were awesome.

[NatchDan]

I used to read so so many webcomics it was sad. Now I've trimmed it down to a more manageable list, but still too many, I think. Penny Arcade, VG Cats, Droop, Questionable Content, Bunny, Dr McNinja, Overcompensating, Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal, Married To The Sea [et al] and... Does Red Vs Blue count? But yes, VG Cats is one of the best.

[gpw11]

You forgot White Ninja. 

[NatchDan]

That's one of those comics I read in bursts. So I'm about a month behind now, but in another month I'll catch up.

One day I'll catch up with Mac Hall and Apple Geeks.

[Pugnate]

haha I like that comic. It makes a lot of sense. 'Next Gen' games seem to go overboard on the fancy stuff.

Yea I haven't tried multiplayer in this yet and want to finish single player. To those who've played MP, what modes are there? Also is it possible for me on my PC to hook up with the people on the 360s?

I too loved the original R6, and that's what really got me started into PC gaming; I was pretty casual PC gamer in the past, but R6 started it.  I didn't really like any of the subsequent sequels to the original though, and each one became worst.

For me the series was at its best around Rogue Spear, and maybe a couple of games after. In future installments it just had no innovation and all the cool aspects kept getting stripped.

Wow, those screens look amazing. I've always been a bit R6 fan, I wish my comp could run this.

Well I am getting smooth frames, but unfortunately Nvidia can't run HDR with FSAA together. The jaggies get to me heh.

Also the game offers a 1280x960 rez., but not a 1280x1024 rez., which I don't understand.

[iPPi]

I didn't really like Rogue Spear... it was alright in terms of single player, but the multiplayer felt clunky when compared to the original R6, which was more fast paced and basic.

Regardless, Vegas is a masterpiece.  There's coop, coop terrorist hunt, survival (one life, ffa or team), sharpshooter (ffa or team DM), capture and hold/defend (i think, haven't tried this one before), and one or two more modes I think.

The game looks amazing on the 360 as well.  It's breathtaking when you're flying around in the chopper and look down on The Strip.  It's like... 'hey I've actually been there!' 

[poomcgoo]

The MP in this game is amazing.  You can't play against 360 players from the PC though, Mr. Handicap.

[Xessive]

I definitely loved it, and I've been reaffirmed that the series may have a future if it stays in Ubisoft Montréal's hands (the same guys who developed Rainbow Six 3).

Apparently quite a few people on the official forums were not happy with it. Most of which are people who were not even happy with Raven Shield. I loved Raven Shield, and I really enjoyed Vegas. Vegas enhanced the features of the gameplay, and really boosted the look of the game. In contrast with Lockdown, which completely bastardized the franchise.

It's definitely fun, and employs a lot of tactical decision-making. I have to admit some parts of it do echo a more action-paced game set i.e. health system. I can see how some die-hard tactical fans would be ticked off at little details like that. In my opinion it works; the game needs such adaptations to make it enjoyable (especially considering how huge the levels can be). Imagine getting wounded early on n the mission and having to drag your limp leg throughout the whole chapter. The way the game is laid out, it's a lot more immersive. You receive your objectives on-the-fly, and you don't actually return to HQ or anything. So the system they set up is necessary, and enjoyable; after all it is a game not a military simulator. Operation: Flashpoint and ArmA: Armed Assault are military simulators!

Compared to the 360 version there were a few missing features. Features which would actually work brilliantly for PC users, since they would have a lot more versatility and capability to customize. One feature being the custom character design. In the 360 version, if you have the 360 webcam, you can actually take a shot of you face and import it into the game. I have yet to see that in the PC version. Besides that, the multiplayer on the 360 seems way more customizable than the PC version. That completely blows my mind because PC is the epitome of the concept of customization. I have a PC, not a Mac and not a console, why? Because I can customize it virtually entirely.

You can definitely sense the bias toward console-ization, but at least they tuned the game to play decently on the PC. All in all, a good effort from the team.

[Pugnate]

Yay, I am glad you are enjoying it. We should play online and team up on every muhaha. But what health bar? I can't seem to find it.

The MP in this game is amazing.  You can't play against 360 players from the PC though, Mr. Handicap.

That's a pity. I suspect that the 360 version has auto aim?

I'd love to see this game on a big LCD though. That would awesomeness.

[Xessive]

Health bar? I said health system! A lot of hardcore realism fanatics were bytching about the way you never really seem to die, and you just regenerate. Personally I like that system. It's just like Call of Duty 2, or Gears of War. You'll die when you're overwhelmed or been hit by a killshot (i.e. headshot).

[MysterD]

I do want to play this game.

Hey, Pug -- must run great w/ your 8800 video card, eh? :-P

[Pugnate]

Sorry I misunderstood Xessive. I haven't played Gears of War or COD2 yet, but yea I am probably one of those fanatics. I think the game could use a bit of that, but I am still happy.
Well D, it does run great. I just want FSAA

Also I am getting 50+ FPS in the game with everything except shadows on max. When I push shadows to max the frames drop to 35. They don't make a massive difference, but the game hasn't been ported well. I feel for those with lesser video cards, because again it is a case of the graphics not justifying the power sucking.

[Xessive]

Oh man, I had to put it on the lowest settings to get a decent framerate out of this game! I know that my system's bottleneck is the CPU now.. I'll have to work on that, coz right now most of the load gets dumped on my graphics card.

FEAR is still pretty heavy.. Quake 4 runs way better. I've noticed that all the Lithtech games are CPU intensive. Back when AvP2 was released, we couldn't run it decently on a 733MHz or an 833MHz even, regardless of the video card (GeForce 3 something). We tried it on a 933MHz with a GeForce 2 MX and it ran a lot smoother. In my opinion, FEAR doesn't look good enough to run the way it does. Still, FEAR's awesome. I'm gonna reinstall.

The new Unreal engine is promising.. It's demanding, but it delivers.

[Pugnate]

Yea the F.E.A.R. engine is typical Monolith resource suckage.

[iPPi]

Yea FEAR is surprisingly taxing on the system.

[MysterD]

Oh man, I had to put it on the lowest settings to get a decent framerate out of this game! I know that my system's bottleneck is the CPU now.. I'll have to work on that, coz right now most of the load gets dumped on my graphics card.

FEAR is still pretty heavy.. Quake 4 runs way better. I've noticed that all the Lithtech games are CPU intensive. Back when AvP2 was released, we couldn't run it decently on a 733MHz or an 833MHz even, regardless of the video card (GeForce 3 something). We tried it on a 933MHz with a GeForce 2 MX and it ran a lot smoother. In my opinion, FEAR doesn't look good enough to run the way it does. Still, FEAR's awesome. I'm gonna reinstall.

I would expect FEAR to run worse than Quake 4 --- namely b/c I think Id does a much better job w/ making engines when compared than Monolith.

Though, I don't think I've ever seen AI in any Id game anywhere as sharp as FEAR's.

[Quemaqua]

I didn't find FEAR to be that bad, actually.  Ran pretty good on my laptop and runs pretty good on this system, too.  And what else did Monolith do that sucked resources?  The Lithtech engine never did in my experience.  That thing was always smooth as butter... it was just graphically inferior to the other big engines.  At least as I recall.  I had zero issues with pretty much all the Lithtech games.

[Pugnate]

Blood II (Not had problems, but the visuals weren't on par with the standard)
No One Lives Forever (High system requirements for average visuals)
No One Lives Forever 2 (I had zero problems with this, but I read of others not being so lucky)
Alien vs Predator 2 (Looked good, but not at the level of resource sucking. I had major issues)
Tron 2.0 (Didn't have as many problems as others)
F.E.A.R. (I had zero issues, but most people did.)

I have found all of those games save NOLF2 and Tron 2.0 to have had competing games that looked and performed better. The only reason I include both of those in that list as well, is because I've heard of plenty of complaints for them. But I found NOLF2 and Tron 2.0 to look really good and not give many issues.

I had a lot of problems with NOLF1 in the latter stages. It just didn't seem to be producing the visuals worthy of the system hogging. AVP2 again was good looking, but same problems, except more so.

F.E.A.R. seems to have had massive complaints all over. I had no problems on my gaming rig, but when I tried running it on my second system that sported a gig of RAM with an Athlon XP 3000 plus a 6800XT, it didn't run nearly as well as it should have.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2607&p=7

F.E.A.R. is a hugely taxing game that looks great but performs horribly at the highest settings on most hardware. At its release, there was quite a bit of debate over whether or not the graphics were good enough to justify the poor performance. Obviously we all want beautiful games that perform well at the same time, but since we don't always get what we want, we'd rather see developers err on the side of making things look good and giving us the option to turn off settings if we so choose. 

Like I said, I had no issues with F.E.A.R. on my main rig. But I think Monolith has had more issues with their engines than Epic or iD. That's what I think anyway.

[Quemaqua]

Well, of course they have.  They don't build engines anywhere near the caliber of id or Epic.  Shogo and Blood 2 were ugly as fuck.  Still, I never had any problems with any of the games really (though I didn't spend much time with the NOLF games... sorta' missed out on those).

[Pugnate]

NOLF brings back so many memories of Canada. I think it was my second year in unversity.

I bought the game having read so many positive things about it, yet I couldn't enjoy it at all. Not because of the performance issues, but because of the setting.

It was so damn goofy. When I am playing a shooter, I want a serious attitude. Plus I don't want to play a shooter as a chick with a personality. It feels weird, I don't know. I don't care if the protagonist is a female, but it just doesn't feel right in a shooter.

The game world felt basically like Austin Powers, and I couldn't enjoy it. It reviewed really well though. Actually it was one of those games that I admired on every level, yet I could not enjoy it. It had great level design, and some of the missions were really innovative such as some scuba diving adventures. The storyline was also excellent and the cut scenes were just hilarious. Yet I couldn't enjoy it. 

I just had an idea. My sister is coming back in a few days... I will make her play it. She will love it.

edit:

One thing I found really positive was how they didn't make her sleazy. She looked attractive, had a great personality etc. yet it wasn't like she went into firefights dressed for Jabba the Hut's nipple pinchy sessions.

[Xessive]

Haha I loved NOLF, and NOLF2 was a treasure Tron 2.0 was a masterfully crafted game in my experience. Shogo was a lot of fun, it didn't look great but it looked fantastic next to Quake 2 AvP2 was well-crafted.. I hated Blood 2.. Graphics, gameplay, everything..

Anyway I just ran into a major problem with FEAR. Apparently installing it conflicts with my installation of DirectX 9. And the only way to repair the problem is a format and clean installation of Windows, since there's no real way to uninstall DirectX and reinstall it fresh. Microsoft have complicated things on that front.

Basically FEAR will not install if you click "cancel" when it asks to install DirectX (August 2006).. Now I have the Feb 2007 release. Somehow the older one that comes with FEAR overwrites it, and I end up with faulty DX9 shaders, a lot of missing visuals in FEAR, and an occasional BSOD. I could just switch the game to DX8 shaders, and it runs fine, but it the DX8 shaders are pretty crap compared to the DX9 ones (no post-processing, crappy reflection, no refraction, inferior bump-mapping, etc.).

I thought, not a problem I'll just reinstall DX9 Feb 2007. Doesn't work. At least not entirely. The visuals are still missing but at least I don't get a BSOD. It basically thinks I already have DX9 Feb 2007, and doesn't replace all the files.. So I might just have to wait for the next DX9 release to resolve the problem without a format.

According to Microsoft and many other sources you must NEVER try to install an older version of DX over a current version. Apparently it can cause major problems and may potentially render Windows inoperable.

So I formatted my system.. Tried installing FEAR again, and the same problem happened.. Fortunately this time I set a restore point just before installing FEAR. So, thank you Sierra for complicating things. Why does the FEAR installation force a DirectX install? Every other game doesn't!

Thank God Oblivion still works beautifully.

EDIT:

One thing I found really positive was how they didn't make her sleazy. She looked attractive, had a great personality etc. yet it wasn't like she went into firefights dressed for Jabba the Hut's nipple pinchy sessions.

Haha one more reason I loved the game I really adored (and respected) Cate Archer! (well, as far as characters in a goofy comedy go).

[Quemaqua]

Dude, Shogo did *not* look fantastic next to Quake 2.  The game was crazy kinds of fun, but it was ugly as fucking crap.  It was horrendous.  Blood 2 looked pretty bad as well, and you're right, it was a fairly lousy game.  Don't know how they managed to screw that one up so badly.  There was some fun and interesting stuff here and there, but on the whole the game was a failure.  But yeah, I mainly just wanted to point out that Quake 2 kicked the graphical shit out of Shogo.  The older Lithtech games all felt like the models were built out of Styrofoam.  They were just so weird and... floaty feeling.

[Pugnate]

Back to the Vegas for a second, I am in well and truly into the heart of the casino mission. The game is all kinds of awesome, and is easily the most intense and enjoyable shooter I've played since F.E.A.R.

The enemy AI surprises me with a lot of intelligent tactics, and the game is fairly challenging at the 'realistic' difficulty without being overly difficult. I am loving it and am happy my fondness for the series has been rekindled.

The two members you command follow orders really well, and have given me no issues so far. The game brings forth a new breed to popular shooters, a breed that has you go slowly and surely rather than all guns blazing. I read that Gears of War is similar to that style.

The reason I say to popular shooters is that us PC fans have had loads of experience with this sort of goodness, but now the realism approach is becoming a bit more mainstream.

The game is very different from the R6 games of the past, yet is proper homage to the series.

There have been plenty of moments where I've had my heart in my mouth, and that comes with the knowledge that save points are between intense firefights, and simple mistakes can mean your downfall. I also admire how bad luck plays a minor role in everything. It has only happened maybe once or twice that I've been killed by a stray shot where I couldn't have done anything. That's because of the excellent level design, and the lack of random spawning.

There are scripted moments where you have cleared an area, and are suddenly facing an uphill battle, but those are very tastefully done. Those moments have added to the experience.

I am posting more screenies in the first post. Vegas looks rather nice.

[iPPi]

I played the game through only once and on the Realistic Difficulty.

It got somewhat frustrating near the end, since the enemies kept ambushing and the 'protect your teammate' while he opens this door was very challenging on Realistic.

That said, it was still a really good campaign.

[Cobra951]

Also the game offers a 1280x960 rez., but not a 1280x1024 rez., which I don't understand.

It's the 1280x1024 res I never understood.  That's a 5:4 ratio, which is narrower than the perennial 4:3.  1280x960 is 4:3, although it's not as standard as 1280x1024.

I tried the R6 Vegas demo on the 360 after following this thread.  That's really well done.  I'm not a big fan of uber-hard squad shooters, but I can definitely appreciate the effort put into it.  It chugs a little at times, but performs well enough.  It looks great.

[Pugnate]

It's the 1280x1024 res I never understood.  That's a 5:4 ratio, which is narrower than the perennial 4:3.  1280x960 is 4:3, although it's not as standard as 1280x1024.

I started thinking about it, but stopped myself because I am about to hit the sack heh. We should discuss this more in another thread. I am a bit confused now.

It chugs a little at times, but performs well enough.

How could it chug on the 360?     

[iPPi]

Uhhh... the game is silky smooth on the 360.  No framerate problems at all for me.

[Cobra951]

Do you play in HD?  It's 3 times the 2D work (over SD).  Anyway, I'm not saying it's bad.  Most of the time it's plenty smooth.  But I did notice some chug here and there.

[MysterD]

Basically FEAR will not install if you click "cancel" when it asks to install DirectX (August 2006).. Now I have the Feb 2007 release. Somehow the older one that comes with FEAR overwrites it, and I end up with faulty DX9 shaders, a lot of missing visuals in FEAR, and an occasional BSOD. I could just switch the game to DX8 shaders, and it runs fine, but it the DX8 shaders are pretty crap compared to the DX9 ones (no post-processing, crappy reflection, no refraction, inferior bump-mapping, etc.).

Yes, I did notice that if you do say "No" to DX9 version on FEAR, the game won't install. That is stupid.

I thought, not a problem I'll just reinstall DX9 Feb 2007. Doesn't work. At least not entirely. The visuals are still missing but at least I don't get a BSOD. It basically thinks I already have DX9 Feb 2007, and doesn't replace all the files.. So I might just have to wait for the next DX9 release to resolve the problem without a format.

Oh, man....BSOD's are evil!

According to Microsoft and many other sources you must NEVER try to install an older version of DX over a current version. Apparently it can cause major problems and may potentially render Windows inoperable.

Oh, great....

So I formatted my system.. Tried installing FEAR again, and the same problem happened.. Fortunately this time I set a restore point just before installing FEAR. So, thank you Sierra for complicating things. Why does the FEAR installation force a DirectX install? Every other game doesn't!

Actually, I think Descent 2 forced a DX2.0 install, back in its hey-day, or else deal w/ it not installing...

Can you actually install FEAR just by copying the contents of the DVD/CD's to the drive directly?

This begs my next question -- does FEAR Extraction Point force the install of another Build of DirectX 9.0C?

[iPPi]

Do you play in HD?  It's 3 times the 2D work (over SD).  Anyway, I'm not saying it's bad.  Most of the time it's plenty smooth.  But I did notice some chug here and there.

I play at 1080i over component video cables.  I can honestly say that I haven't noticed any slowdown in the game.  However, Gears of War does have a couple spots where there is a little bit of slowdown that I can remember (the two games use the same engine)

[HxCeddie]

I know Pug said something earlier about auto aim, and I don't think there's any auto aim feature in the 360 version.

And I know that with the new map pack to be released for 360, they're adding a couple new maps and assassination mode (where one person has to be protected by the squad while the other team has to kill him) and conquest (I forget the actual name of it, but it's basically BF 2 where you have to control points on the map.)

[Xessive]

Can you actually install FEAR just by copying the contents of the DVD/CD's to the drive directly?

This begs my next question -- does FEAR Extraction Point force the install of another Build of DirectX 9.0C?

Actually what I've considered is copying the files to the HD, then replacing the DX files with the updated ones, then recompiling the files into an ISO and mounting it. I'm sure that'll work, but I'd have to do that every time a new version of DX is released, which shouldn't be too often considering Microsoft's stance and apparent willingness to abandon WinXP in favour of its newer child Vista.

I don't know about Extraction Point, but I'm pretty sure that FEAR Combat doesn't mess with DX. Which is what I would normally install (saves about 2 GB of space if you don't wanna play singleplayer). I was just really in the mood for the singleplayer campaign.

Anyway, back to R6.. As far as I've seen, the support for Vegas has been pretty good. I'm perfectly happy with the game mechanics too. I read a lot of posts where people were complaining about how they can't "lean" any more, but the dynamic "take cover" action works so much better in my opinion (very similar to the Gears of War way). I think I first saw that dynamic in kill.switch, an action game by Namco which oddly enough made it to the PC too. I love the fluidity of all the actions you can perform. Thank God you can hop over fences and short walls too!

EDIT:
Oh sweet, they're brining VIP (Assassination) and King of The Hill (Domination) to Vegas!