Topic: PC Vs. Console Gaming, Multi-Platforming And Piracy Articles

[MysterD]

Another one of those "Can PC Gaming Survive w/ consoles" article, which seems to get touted around every few years a new console seems to come out and b/c of "piracy rampant" in PC gaming.

Yet, as we all know, the PC ALWAYS survives, somehow.

Can PC Gaming Survive in a Console World?
By Joel Durham Jr.

Whenever a hot, new console arrives on the market, someone declares the demise of PC gaming. It happened with the PS2, the Xbox, the Dreamcast (well, to some extent), and it's happening now in the era of the "next gen" consoles. Does PC gaming have a future? Of course it does. But is it anything like the hardcore gaming contingent is used to?

In a panel discussion at GDC 2007, a quintet of industry creative types, including David Edery (Xbox Live Arcade), Richard Hilleman (EA), Soren Johnson, (Firaxis), Michael Capps (Epic Games), and Chris Avallone (Obsidian Entertainment), kicked around the idea of PC gaming's viability.

Since 2001, annual sales of PC games have fallen significantly. In 2006, of the top ten PC games, five were in Electronic Arts' Sims franchise. Sports games, simulations, and action games are, according to Edery, in "steep decline." Clearly, the reign of the big, triple-A boxed title is in jeopardy.

How can the PC platform compete with next gen consoles? Hilleman sees gaming gradually turning into a service industry, rather than one of boxed product. "PC gaming is in a state of transition," he said, adding that companies are starting to cater to niches rather than continuing to create wide-ranging blockbuster titles. Gaming, said Hilleman, is "a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people."

"You need to think differently about what types of games can be developed [for the PC]," said Johnson. Indeed, the PC currently has freer and better Internet access. It features keyboards and mice. It's more open to social gaming.

Capps, who has worked on Unreal Tournament titles as well as Gears of War, was bleak: "PC Gaming is really falling apart. It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it to [recap its investment in the production costs]."

Part of the problem is piracy. Big titles get stolen by cyber thieves, and it hurts revenue. "The market," said Capps, "that would buy a $600 video card knows how Bittorrent works."

Does that mean casual games, which exponentially outsell what PC gaming traditionalists think of as A-list titles, will one day rule? Hilleman made a point: casual is a poor choice of words. The average player on EA's Pogo "casual" game network plays "for 24 hours a week. There's nothing casual about that."

There is some light in the PC gaming world. World of Warcraft, for instance, is a massive hit, and the upcoming Spore looks not only creative and different, but promising. The MMO and other social networking games could become the norm for PC gaming, with big-ticket titles growing rarer with each passing year. Johnson added that MMOs are "successful because you can't pirate WoW. You cannot pirate an MMO. Period." Therefore, he said, "game design on the PC is going to bend toward persistence."

The final feather in the PC's cap is user-generated content, a.k.a. mods. Modding is easier and more open on PCs than it is on consoles (even with XNA), and will continue to be. Console manufacturers tend to wield much more control over their titles. Censorship, said Hilleman, will always be an issue on consoles, but possibly not on PCs.

Creativity and knowing the market are the keys to saving PC gaming, the panel agreed. For example, the real-time strategy genre could use a serious boost. Johnson said: "Defcon is a great example of that. It's important for people to start making medium-size games for the PC because the PC can do that. The PC is that flexible."

One final thought to consider: Trends are often hard to predict. The A-list title might never die. Capps, almost startled to say it, mentioned, "Shooters are doing well on consoles now. Nobody thought that would ever happen."

And Hollenstead of Id Software also states why some of Id's game been multi-platformed for also consoles -- b/c of Piracy.

id Software CEO: piracy pushed us multiplatform

Posted Mar 9th 2007 5:28PM by Ross Miller

Filed under: PC, Sony PlayStation 3, Microsoft Xbox 360, First Person Shooters, GDC, Business
At an early session Friday, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead gave a lecture on the problems of piracy on the internet. During his speech, Hollenshead revealed that, although they are still primarily a PC developer, id Software had begun to look at console game releases as a way to financially combat piracy.

"Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy.

In Hollenshead's lecture, entitled "The Videogame Piracy Problem: Fifteen Men on a Dead Man's Chest," was a discussion on the problems of piracy, his company's experiences with the issues, and suggestions to help the diffuse the issue.

[idolminds]

Capps, who has worked on Unreal Tournament titles as well as Gears of War, was bleak: "PC Gaming is really falling apart. It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it to [recap its investment in the production costs]."

Thats less to do with PC gaming and more to do with the outrageous skyrocketing of development costs across the board. If you notice, most games in general are going cross platform. This isnt the "death of PC gaming"...its the "death of exclusives".

[MysterD]

Thats less to do with PC gaming and more to do with the outrageous skyrocketing of development costs across the board. If you notice, most games in general are going cross platform. This isnt the "death of PC gaming"...its the "death of exclusives".

Indeed, Idol.

PC Gaming won't die. So many times, I've heard it will over the past God knows how many years, yet it still remains. PC Gaming isn't going anywhere.

W/ a less than stellar new OS upon us (Windows Vista), one of the new consoles doing so well (the X360, namely), and a few other new consoles here (The Wii and PS3), we're going to heard the "PC Gaming is in trouble" rant. But low and behold, we are going to see something amazing pop up on the PC -- and everybody is going to get that triple-A title. There will be a bunch of those titles, as usual -- and PC gaming will stay alive, of course.

Plus, you always have the Indie studios and foreign studios trying to make it, as well. They will definitely be the ones we see, more than likely, making "PC Only" games. Such as Piranha Bytes w/ Gothic series, they've always remained "PC exclusive"....at least for the time being.

And once an Indie Studio becomes a household name, you can bet, like Id, they'll start mutli-platforming games. And then there will be another Indie game coming, making "PC exclusive" games. It's like a repetitious cycle.

[Pugnate]

This is depressing.

edit:

As for iD... I think the bigger enemy is themselves.

[scottws]

I think the publishers are kind of at fault too.  I mean I know that making and selling games is really, really expensive now, but what incentive is there to buy a boxed copy of a game when all I get is a registration card and a disc in a paper sleeve?

I used to love looking at the big ol' spiral bound manuals that came with some games.  Now you're lucky if you get anything at all in the box.  There is just no incentive to buy anything when you get pretty much the same thing by pirating it.  In fact, sometimes pirating is even better because you don't have to deal with SecuROM and shit like that.

Like F.E.A.R. and F.E.A.R. extraction point.  Both of them come with just paper sleeves with a sticker with the CD key on the sleeve.  Are you kidding?  What am I supposed to do with that?  Normally in a case like this, I take a Sharpie and write the CD key on the disc and put it in a CD wallet and throw everything else away, but the F.E.A.R. discs are too dark to do that.

[Pugnate]

I think the publishers are kind of at fault too.  I mean I know that making and selling games is really, really expensive now, but what incentive is there to buy a boxed copy of a game when all I get is a registration card and a disc in a paper sleeve?

I used to love looking at the big ol' spiral bound manuals that came with some games.  Now you're lucky if you get anything at all in the box.  There is just no incentive to buy anything when you get pretty much the same thing by pirating it.  In fact, sometimes pirating is even better because you don't have to deal with SecuROM and shit like that.

Like F.E.A.R. and F.E.A.R. extraction point.  Both of them come with just paper sleeves with a sticker with the CD key on the sleeve.  Are you kidding?  What am I supposed to do with that?  Normally in a case like this, I take a Sharpie and write the CD key on the disc and put it in a CD wallet and throw everything else away, but the F.E.A.R. discs are too dark to do that.

Man you spoke what was exactly in my heart. In the past buying a game was festive. Now it is like getting fish bones.

[Quemaqua]

Agreed.  People are stupid, regardless of industry, and will complain endlessly about all kinds of things even when half their problem is that they continuously shoot themselves in the foot.

[Xessive]

I think the main reason piracy becomes appealing is that they've made it difficult and very inconvenient to play a game by legitimate means. Even though I have the original discs I will always find a NoCD crack or a mini-image. I'm all for supporting the devs, but they have to make it more convenient to acquire, own, and use the product legitimately.

StarForce made it difficult to simply own a game.. Valve made owning a game questionable, in that if you try to mess with the files or anything they may revoke your right to sign into Steam thereby preventing you from accessing any of your games on Steam. Now almost every game has to run a security module to check that you have the legit disc before you can run the game at all. Ok fine, why don't they figure out how to do it after the first install, and once it's verified BOOM you won't have to insert the disc again. We already have CD keys to prevent multiplayer duplication.

[JacksRag(e)]

Like F.E.A.R. and F.E.A.R. extraction point.  Both of them come with just paper sleeves with a sticker with the CD key on the sleeve.  Are you kidding?  What am I supposed to do with that?  Normally in a case like this, I take a Sharpie and write the CD key on the disc and put it in a CD wallet and throw everything else away, but the F.E.A.R. discs are too dark to do that.

A little labeling tape and your problem should be solved, though the prettiness of the disk might be affected.

[scottws]

That would unbalance the disc though.

[MysterD]

A little labeling tape and your problem should be solved, though the prettiness of the disk might be affected.

Here's what I do.

I have loads of slim jewels cases I got on sale, some long time ago.

When I get a new game in a paper sleeve, I put it IN A SLIM JEWEL CASE.

I take a blank sticker and put the CD key on the sticker.
I put the sticker on the case itself.

[Cobra951]

I think the main reason piracy becomes appealing is that they've made it difficult and very inconvenient to play a game by legitimate means. Even though I have the original discs I will always find a NoCD crack or a mini-image. I'm all for supporting the devs, but they have to make it more convenient to acquire, own, and use the product legitimately.

StarForce made it difficult to simply own a game.. Valve made owning a game questionable, in that if you try to mess with the files or anything they may revoke your right to sign into Steam thereby preventing you from accessing any of your games on Steam. Now almost every game has to run a security module to check that you have the legit disc before you can run the game at all. Ok fine, why don't they figure out how to do it after the first install, and once it's verified BOOM you won't have to insert the disc again. We already have CD keys to prevent multiplayer duplication.

The only StarForce game I think I have is Scrapland (Crapland, to Pug.  ).  I never had any problems with it.  Maybe it got worse in later versions.  I drew the line at Steam, though.  No Steam for me, thanks.  If I buy the game, I own it.  No one forces me to call the mothership or dictate to me how and when to modify the game I own.  I wish I could have supported the developers of Half Life 2 with more than just my thanks for such a good game.  But the distribution method and forced ties made that impossible. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you.  All the game distributors have accomplished with their increasingly heavy-handed methods is to alienate me.  Legit customers get caught in the crossfire with the pirates, forcing us to take sides.  Pity.

[idolminds]

I agree with scott. Stop giving us shitty paper sleeves and no manual. If you put something worthwhile in the box people will be more tempted to purchase it.

Like what if Oblivion (just an example) had no in-game map, but came with a nice cloth map of the land? Sure pirates could just download a scan of the map and print it out...but thats so ghetto compared to a real cloth map. Imagine no map and only a basic cumpas with N/S/E/W on it...no markers or waypoints, and you find your way by a physical map...

Shit, I want to mod the map out of the game now.

[MysterD]

I agree with scott. Stop giving us shitty paper sleeves and no manual. If you put something worthwhile in the box people will be more tempted to purchase it.

Agreed.

Game boxes should be standardized, anyways. They should be either at the worst come w/ a slim DVD case. Though, Fable: TLC's kind of case (a few discs on a pole in a nice case) or like the Titan Quest DVD case (one DVD disc on a pole in a nice case) w/ the game manual. Those are just fine, thanks.

Like what if Oblivion (just an example) had no in-game map, but came with a nice cloth map of the land? Sure pirates could just download a scan of the map and print it out...but thats so ghetto compared to a real cloth map. Imagine no map and only a basic cumpas with N/S/E/W on it...no markers or waypoints, and you find your way by a physical map...

Shit, I want to mod the map out of the game now.

I remember Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon ALL came w/ paper maps.

Oblivion didn't come w/ a paper map. No big deal really, though.

[Quemaqua]

It did if you bought the collector's edition.

[MysterD]

It did if you bought the collector's edition.

Did the soundtrack come on the Collector's Ed?

[Xessive]

Did the soundtrack come on the Collector's Ed?

Nope.. That woulda been awesome, but hey usually figure they could just make more money if they sell it individually.

I don't normally go for Collector's Editions, but the Oblivion CE is one I'm proud to own It was a last second decision too, I was holding both boxes in my hands and I just realized that Oblivion is a game I'm gonna want to keep and to hold till death do us part.. Or until the next Elder Scrolls game comes out. Well, I will strive to collect the series.

[idolminds]

Ok...so you guys know I only used that as an example, right?

[MysterD]

Ok...so you guys know I only used that as an example, right?

Yes, but still....
....you made some great points, example or not.

I'd rather have the very nice packaging than a lot of the more recent crap packaging we've seen in the last few years.

[gpw11]

Well, I think we all would but at the same time I think we as consumers greatly over estimate the profit margins that publishers deal with.    I'm sure publishers are well aware of the fact that including jewel cases and nicely bound manuals would be an incentive to not pirate the game, but without having done any risk assessment myself, I'm going to guess that they have and in some cases it could very well be the difference between profitability and losing money.  The ideal solution would be to offer a reg. bare bones version and a CE with all kinds of cool shit, but not every game calls for that and just even having the two different SKUs has an effect on profitability. 

As for the piracy issue, I agree that it does alienate legitimate users and generally I don't like it, but at the same time I see why they need to do it.  Look at Doom 3.  Everyone has played it but it only sold like 1.5 million.  Sure that's still a fairly large number, but I'd be willing to bet it was downloaded more than that.  There's always excuses like "I download the game and then if I like it I buy it" but a lot more people say that then actually do it.  Games like Doom 3 are the cash cows....they need to sell a lot of those games in order to fund other games.  Piracy hurts those games and as such they have to start making cuts across the board. 

In an ideal world we'd have games with no copy protection, cheaper prices, and cool shit included, but that's not the case here.  Publishers are going bottom up all the time, as are developers, and they need to cut back on expenses as well as try to protect their investments in order to cover their own ass.  It's a shame, but it's just how it works, and on a console your assurance of a return for an investment is quite a bit higher than on a pc. 

[scottws]

I don't buy the argument about protecting their investments.  Copy protection doesn't stop anybody.  If they want to cut costs, stop paying the licensing fees for worthless copy protections.

[idolminds]

Those inbred apes that post on IGN cant follow an idea to save their lives. Gah...my head hurts.

Anyway, I had a stream of consciousness post over there on this subject that I'd like to mention here. The "lost sales" figures from software companies are bullshit. Not total bullshit, but partial bullshit. Yes there are people that download games even though they have the money for them, I wont deny that. They really are lost sales. However, there are others that either cant buy them (lack of money or whatever) or simply wouldnt buy them for whatever reason if they didnt pirate the game. Those people are not "lost sales" because even in a piracy free world they still wouldnt put down money for it.

This of course confuses the IGN neanderthals and they come back with a bunch of "piracy is wrong!" posts.

Then I went deeper into it for my own sake. I figured out that this is an issue of risk vs reward.

I go to a store, drop $50 on a cardboard box. Whats in the box? A couple discs in white paper sleeves and a CD key. If I'm lucky, I get a 10 page manual that has 2 pages of warnings and install instructions, and 3 pages for "notes". Basically, the CDs are the only interesting part, and all they allow me to do is install a game to play.

Or I can save the $50, pirate the game, and get the exact same game experience. The chances of getting in trouble for downloading a game is minimal. Where is the incentive to buy other than the warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the publisher developers?

What they need to figure out is how to raise the value of purchasing the retail game. Physical items are impossible to pirate (you could print out a scan of a map...but its still not the same). Throw in the soundtrack (with cover art and notes), a keychain, a nice manual, a coupon for a free car wash...whatever. Something you just cant get from a pirate copy.

Also, drop the copy protection. By now you know it doesnt do shit to stop piracy and annoys legitimate customers when it fucks up, thereby driving them to piracy in a wonderfully ironic twist.

[Cobra951]

The "lost sales" figures from software companies are bullshit. Not total bullshit, but partial bullshit. Yes there are people that download games even though they have the money for them, I wont deny that. They really are lost sales. However, there are others that either cant buy them (lack of money or whatever) or simply wouldnt buy them for whatever reason if they didnt pirate the game. Those people are not "lost sales" because even in a piracy free world they still wouldnt put down money for it.

This of course confuses the IGN neanderthals and they come back with a bunch of "piracy is wrong!" posts.

You said that very well.  I've made that argument repeatedly, and most places, I get the same neandethals.  They just think I'm advocating piracy, when all I'm after is more truth and less bullshit.

Also, drop the copy protection. By now you know it doesnt do shit to stop piracy and annoys legitimate customers when it fucks up, thereby driving them to piracy in a wonderfully ironic twist.

Exactly.  And I did not ignore the meat of your post.  I just have nothing to add to it.  It's all so obvious, except to them.

[Quemaqua]

Not much we can do about it.  These people are too bullheaded to ever change.

[Pugnate]

Idol put together a letter so we can mail it to all the big heads. I am serious.

[gpw11]

Lost sales figures are skewed, just as nicotine related death figures are skewed, just as alchohol related accident rates are skewed, are pretty much any other statistic put forth to try to prove a point.  Does that mean piracy doesn't hurt?

Does copy protection stop anyone?  Not a large enough group of people to matter (two exceptions - Steam for the most part and certain games with certain versions of Starforce), that's not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is that they have to do 'something'.  Your idea is great, but expect to pay more for games once there is anything that's manufactured in there.  Your map idea is great, and add that with something like a non-standard compass so you get your ass lost if you're not using it and you may have something (although it may be just as alienating in some ways), but you can probably expect to pay at least a bit more for that.  There's no really easy answer as far as the decisions on this goes....either way you give something up.   

[iPPi]

I really agree with almost everything that has been said.  The incentive to buy games has declined due to the simple fact that you're getting screwed either from shitty packaging, terrible copy protection, or just other problems.

Maybe that's why I've been bored with PC gaming lately.  There really isn't anything that's compelling enough to buy, so I just don't game on the PC anymore. 

[MysterD]

Those inbred apes that post on IGN cant follow an idea to save their lives. Gah...my head hurts.

Anyway, I had a stream of consciousness post over there on this subject that I'd like to mention here. The "lost sales" figures from software companies are bullshit. Not total bullshit, but partial bullshit. Yes there are people that download games even though they have the money for them, I wont deny that. They really are lost sales.

Those are lost sales b/c these people have the $$, yet they won't put the $ down the product. Though, I'd guess that if you do actually pirate a game and have the $$, in most likelihood, they're probably NOT planning to go out and buy the real thing anyways.

The only reason I think a person w/ the $$ that can afford a game might actually pirate a game is if the game is protected by nasty copyright protection and they decide to get a pirated version of the game b/c the ripped version is w/out the nasty copyright protection all over it.

This of course confuses the IGN neanderthals and they come back with a bunch of "piracy is wrong!" posts.

Then I went deeper into it for my own sake. I figured out that this is an issue of risk vs reward.

I go to a store, drop $50 on a cardboard box. Whats in the box? A couple discs in white paper sleeves and a CD key. If I'm lucky, I get a 10 page manual that has 2 pages of warnings and install instructions, and 3 pages for "notes". Basically, the CDs are the only interesting part, and all they allow me to do is install a game to play.

Or I can save the $50, pirate the game, and get the exact same game experience. The chances of getting in trouble for downloading a game is minimal. Where is the incentive to buy other than the warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the publisher developers?

There isn't any incentive.

What they need to figure out is how to raise the value of purchasing the retail game. Physical items are impossible to pirate (you could print out a scan of a map...but its still not the same). Throw in the soundtrack (with cover art and notes), a keychain, a nice manual, a coupon for a free car wash...whatever. Something you just cant get from a pirate copy.

Correct.

However, there are others that either cant buy them (lack of money or whatever) or simply wouldnt buy them for whatever reason if they didnt pirate the game. Those people are not "lost sales" because even in a piracy free world they still wouldnt put down money for it.

...

Also, drop the copy protection. By now you know it doesnt do shit to stop piracy and annoys legitimate customers when it fucks up, thereby driving them to piracy in a wonderfully ironic twist.

I think copyright protection is a double-edged sword -- especially w/ nasty copyright protections i.e. StarForce.

There are some people who would actually go out and buy the game, but REFUSE to b/c the game is, for example, StarForce copyright protected game. That's a lost sale, as well -- b/c they were going to go out and purchase the game, but won't b/c just b/c it uses nasty copyright protection that can mess w/ their computer in nasty ways i.e. StarForce.

One of my friends is like that. That person just won't buy games that are StarForce protected, even if that person wants the game badly. But if the developer or publishers removes the game needing the protection w/ a patch (basically, a no CD patch like X3 or Beyond Divinity did), that person will go right out and buy the game and then install that patch in that removes the need of the SF protection. Or if say a re-release of a game is done w/ new retail disc (CD or DVD) edition of the game this person wanted that is w/out the SF-protection included (like Egosoft did w/ the re-release of X3: Reunion 2.0), that person will go buy that specific edition.

[gpw11]

"The only reason I think a person w/ the $$ that can afford a game might actually pirate a game is if the game is protected by nasty copyright protection and they decide to get a pirated version of the game b/c the ripped version is w/out the nasty copyright protection all over it."

You're underestimating the very large proportion of people who can afford the game and want to play it but just don't want to pay for it.  The ease of pirating and the low risk factor of it makes it very attractive to many who would otherwise buy.

[idolminds]

Yeah, the average person doesnt care about copy protection unless it screws up and doesnt let them play. Most pirates just want a free game.

[MysterD]

"The only reason I think a person w/ the $$ that can afford a game might actually pirate a game is if the game is protected by nasty copyright protection and they decide to get a pirated version of the game b/c the ripped version is w/out the nasty copyright protection all over it."

You're underestimating the very large proportion of people who can afford the game and want to play it but just don't want to pay for it.  The ease of pirating and the low risk factor of it makes it very attractive to many who would otherwise buy.

Well, no, I'm not. I just didn't mention it. There's of course that, too.

When I was in college, I actually knew a few people who'd actually buy an expensive say $300+ video card, yet not buy one PC game in the actual stores. Though, they'd have every game that is out there on the market.

If we want to go further even, there is always the person that'll go pirate the game for whatever reason -- maybe b/c the game's not even out yet in retail stores, but it somehow got leaked onto the Net, full version and all, yet got impatient and had to have it.

Though, I wonder of how many that actually download a full copy of a game actually go out and buy the real deal in the store b/c they love the game "that" much. Probably a low number, I'd guess, but that would be an interesting factoid.

Oh, and I wonder if they actually "open" their real copy or just throw it aside to just collect it, too....hehe....Hmmmm....

Hell, hmmm, I dunno...

Yeah, the average person doesnt care about copy protection unless it screws up and doesnt let them play.

I understand companies wanting to protect their games and all -- that is fine. I really have no problem w/ that.

It's the copyright protection that is nasty i.e. StarForce and goes to ridiculously extreme measures that bothers me.

Most pirates just want a free game.

That is a problem, of course. There will always be that problem, with or without copyright protection.

I think the "piracy issue" has gotten worse over the years b/c of extreme measures taken by copyright protection for screwing the legit users over. You might stop a lot of pirates w/ copyright protection like StarForce, but you weren't getting their sales in the first place, anyways -- like you said, those probably wouldn't buy the game, anyways. Now, w/ the usage of nasty copyright protection i.e, StarForce, the publisher/developer has the potential of not getting sales from what probably would've been legit customers you would've likely already had....

[gpw11]

I'd guess an extremely small number of sales are lost due to copy protection, if piracy has gotten worse in the last few years I'd attribute it almost entirely to broadband and availabilty rather than angry consumer backlash.

[MysterD]

I'd guess an extremely small number of sales are lost due to copy protection, if piracy has gotten worse in the last few years I'd attribute it almost entirely to broadband and availabilty rather than angry consumer backlash.

Very true.

Though, even w/ broadband, it'd take FOREVER to download something the size of Jade Empire -- which is like around 7 GB. Screw that. I'd rather just go out and buy the game in the store. That's just me, though.

Lost sales figures are skewed, just as nicotine related death figures are skewed, just as alchohol related accident rates are skewed, are pretty much any other statistic put forth to try to prove a point.  Does that mean piracy doesn't hurt?

Does copy protection stop anyone?  Not a large enough group of people to matter (two exceptions - Steam for the most part and certain games with certain versions of Starforce), that's not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is that they have to do 'something'.  Your idea is great, but expect to pay more for games once there is anything that's manufactured in there.  Your map idea is great, and add that with something like a non-standard compass so you get your ass lost if you're not using it and you may have something (although it may be just as alienating in some ways), but you can probably expect to pay at least a bit more for that.  There's no really easy answer as far as the decisions on this goes....either way you give something up.   

A lot of games been selling Collector's Editions of games w/ much better packaging than the Regular Edition. I've found myself, every now and then, buying a Collector's Ed for the few bucks more.

Now over the years, we've seen an increase on the amount of Collector's Editions released. So, here's my next question -- in general, how well do Collector's Editions sell (or not sell), when compared to actual Regular Editions??? Now that would probably be another interesting statistic, I bet.

If more games were as packaged as nicely as say Prey's Collector's Edition (w/ the nice tin packaging) or the Jade Empire: Special Edition (w/ an Extra Art Book) or as Quake 4 DVD (w/ older games as an extra on the second disc), maybe more gamers would be willing to shell out more $$ on a game for such nice packaging?

[MysterD]

Funcom is thinking of dropping offline PC games b/c of "piracy"

Funcom drops "offline" PC games
Piracy is to blame, apparently

Funcom, the developer behind the adventure game classics The Longest Journey and Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, have announced their decision to stop producing traditional, offline PC games, reports the Norwegian newspaper E24. Funcom, who previously have mentioned MMOs and adventure games as their primary focus, blames piracy as the reason for this surprising decision.

According to Funcom's Trond Arne Aas, there had been over 200,000 illegal downloads of Dreamfall, even before its release last year. Also, he estimates that for each PC game that is sold, between 3 and 10 times as many is stolen, thus resulting in Funcom's decision to stop producing offline PC games.

No info was given on the recently announced Dreamfall chapters, although given the fact that the project has already gotten financial assistance from the Norwegian Film Fund, we have reason to believe that they are still on schedule. However, this could result in PC gamers needing to have an active internet connection in order to verify the game's authenticity.

Funcom is no newcomer to online gaming, as they have already released Anarchy Online and countless add-ons. Also, Funcom has already mentioned the possibility of an online game set in the The Longest Journey universe. Their highly anticipated Age of Conan will be released for PC and Xbox360 later this year

[Jedi]

If more games were as packaged as nicely as say Prey's Collector's Edition (w/ the nice tin packaging) or the Jade Empire: Special Edition (w/ an Extra Art Book) or as Quake 4 DVD (w/ older games as an extra on the second disc), maybe more gamers would be willing to shell out more $$ on a game for such nice packaging?

One word - Naive.

[Pugnate]

One word - Naive.

I don't think so. Most of my friends in Canada buy their PC games and they've all been unhappy at the sudden cheapness of PC games. In the past it didn't matter if you bought a CE or not, you got the CDs in a nice case with a lovely thick manual.

[Jedi]

I don't think so. Most of my friends in Canada buy their PC games and they've all been unhappy at the sudden cheapness of PC games. In the past it didn't matter if you bought a CE or not, you got the CDs in a nice case with a lovely thick manual.

Yeah I see where you're both coming from and it is a fair point, but I still don't think producing more expensive packages would actually work in the long term. It just seems like a contradiction, to me anyway.

[Xessive]

I wouldn't mind crappy packaging if it made a difference in price.. That's pretty much the point of the bargain bin! Or good ol' 'open-box' products.

If they're not gonna put a manual or anything I'd at least appreciate a decent container for the disc(s)!

[idolminds]

It would be nice if games came on DVD in DVD cases. I've got stacks of CDs in paper sleeves sitting on my desk. If I want a nice case to put them in I have to make it myself. Thats pretty shitty for a $50 product.

[gpw11]

I'm really suprised that the move to DVD took so long for games.  It's garbage.