Topic: Grand Theft Auto 4

[Cobra951]

That's a real shame.  I have yet to have a hard lockup, though I did have that forever loading screen once.  If I were to grade the game on technical merit, I'd give it a low B.  I know they could have done a noticeably better job.

Check out the google map for Liberty City.  (Maybe not really google map.  It uses their application.)

[Quemaqua]

Heh, that's pretty cool.

I didn't lose much progress, and it seems okay again today.  Who knows.  I turned off my internet connection just in case, though, since some people think that's what's causing freezes.

[iPPi]

I've had my game freeze a handful of times, usually just when I just start playing.  Basically, the game will load and I'll be in my safehouse and before I can leave it the game will freeze. 

[sirean_syan]

That map will be great once the pigeons show up on it. Until then, all the other stuff is more conveniently found in game.

No freezes here yet, but I did hit a hard as hell mission that caused me to quit for the day. It won't go into it too much, but it involved Packie and a lot of guns.

[Cobra951]

I checked torrents of this game's disc image, and they're close to 7 GB.  That makes it a dual-layer DVD on the 360, which may explain the readability problems some people are having with that.  A dirty or worn (or shitty) DVD drive will have more trouble with those.  It doesn't explain anything on the PS3, though.

[Edit:  I found this excerpt from the Giantbomb review to support my thoughts on 360 performance]

The 360 version’s loading and streaming is entirely dependent on the quality of your hardware’s DVD drive. On one system, I had no problems, the loading seemed perfectly snappy, and it generally wasn’t a thing. On the Xbox 360 Elite I have at home, though, I could hear the disc thrashing about as it tried to load, and occasionally objects and roads would appear a second or two too late, causing me to ram my car into invisible objects, in one case. Thankfully, I had another 360 at my disposal, but if your drive is already a little iffy, just know that you might run into some occasional streaming issues.

[End edit]

Who relates / aspires to stealing cars and killing people? Is this guy nuts?

To be fair to him, I really don't think that's what he meant.  Aspiring to power and money under adverse circumstance makes sense.  Stealing and killing may come with the territory, and with most of us, that will stop the aspirations dead in their tracks.

[idolminds]

PS3 version patched.

According to developer Rockstar, the update "prevents Gamespy's servers from being overloaded and therefore reduces the impact on those servers that were causing the game to stutter and lock up."

[scottws]

My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.

[Cobra951]

My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.

That was my favorite part of Mass Effect.   

Idol, you just beat me to it.  I think it may be just what Que needs.  His lockup is supposed to be internet-related.

[MysterD]

My favorite part was when the game locked up and then when I restarted the 360 I got the RROD.

That was my favorite part of Mass Effect.   

...Idol, you just beat me to it.  I think it may be just what Que needs.  His lockup is supposed to be internet-related

Hell, Mass Effect PC will have something (somewhat) similar to let the game lock up...it's called SecuROM.

[Quemaqua]

Awesome on top of awesome.  I'm grabbing it shortly.

Anyone with a PS3 for some MP?  I have to tell you, I haven't had anywhere near this much fun with a deathmatch game in a long time.  It sort of sucks on some levels because it can be a little difficult to gain momentum, and it isn't all that fun to die repeatedly, but if you get on a roll it's an absolute blast (I've been either in 1st or 2nd most DM games I've tried, though considerably lower in pretty much all other modes because I don't understand what I'm supposed to do half the time, heh), and so much crazy stuff happens that's just pure comedy.  It's gold.  Even if it was just DM I think I could spend a pretty good chunk of time just goofing around with it, but there's a ton of other stuff too.

Anyway, I hope this fixes my issue.  It hasn't cropped up again yet, so we'll see.

EDIT - So I think I'm starting to get a little sick of this game.  It isn't really because I'm tired of it, it's more that... I guess that I don't feel like this is a pick up and play game for me at all.  I find when I only have a couple of hours, I just don't want to even get invested.  It's only when I've got like 4 hours of solid time at least that I actually want to boot it up.  I'm not entirely sure why that is.  I mean, games in general tend to be that way for me, but usually I don't need quite such a big block of time in order to want to make the effort.

I think this is partially a problem with how many really good portable games I've been playing.  I don't really *ever* have to leave off with those.  I just pick them up, play a little while, and even if I have to go to bed in an hour, I can play the thing on my way to work in the morning, on my breaks, whatever.  But for something like this, I have to abandon it entirely for a fairly substantial period, and for some reason that throws me when I'm playing a game in which my primary consideration is to be immersed.  A couple hours just doesn't cut it.

So yeah, I guess I'm just entirely neurotic.  Oh well.

[Cobra951]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I'm having some issues too--the same I've had with every GTA.  I don't want to repeat long fucking sequences because I make a mistake, or because I don't know coming in how devious a mission is going to be.  I want to save right when it gets started, and I mean the instant before everyone pulls out their guns.  I don't want to lose and then wake up by a hospital and have to go find more ammo and body armor, or if I decide to load my last save, in an apartment across town from the mission.  I don't want to drive to the NPC's house again and talk to him again, even if I can skip the conversation (which thankfully I can).  I don't want to have to steal another car that I'm going to lose during the mission (and so I refuse to risk the fancy ones in the saved parking spot).  I want to pull my hair out every time things go wrong, and as the missions get harder, they go wrong more often.  I thought this mechanic sucked in 3, VC and SA.  It has survived all those games to suck in IV.

I've completed close to 30 missions, and I still can't go anywhere that I couldn't go when the game started.  I'm determined to open up the rest of the map, but right now, I'm not enjoying it.  I quit in frustration, and that is the worst feeling.  It won't subside anything like soon enough.

[Quemaqua]

Wait, what?  How have you not unlocked anything yet?  By now I feel like you should have unlocked everything but the last island, unless you're moving an awful lot slower than I think you are.

I agree with you though, I've always hated having to redo stuff.  So many reviews have mentioned how great it is that you can just retry a mission from your phone, but I don't feel like it's all that different.  Most missions require a ton of driving to get to even from the front door of the person who gave it to you to wherever the actual mission is, so while you might be saving a good bit of time for certain missions, with others you often aren't saving the bulk of it.  And healthcare is fucking expensive.  I've lost pretty large chunks of cash on a couple of the harder missions where I couldn't figure out exactly how I was supposed to do something.  Combine that with the cost of buying armor and maybe weapons (personally I've had no need to ever purchase a single weapon, nor any ammo... I've got lots because I'm anal about trying to pick up what enemies drop), you're potentially looking at losing like 2 to 4 grand per failure.  So yeah, that shit can get pretty annoying pretty quick when you hit something that's difficult.

Fortunately for me not too much has been that difficult.  There are a few spots that have been a little rough, but for the most part stuff has been doable.  I just had to think outside the box a bit on some of the tougher missions (though improvisation in this game can go from good idea to body bag pretty damned quick, which just adds to the frustration at times when you aren't seeing a more basic solution that's actually there).

All in all I'm still loving it.  It definitely doesn't stray so far from the previous GTA games in a lot of ways, but I think one big advantage here is that the story actually makes the missions worth playing.  I always sort of gave up on the other ones once I'd unlocked all the city areas, because then I had the huge playground and didn't have to bother with missions or a boring story.  With IV, though, I really want to know what's going to happen to Niko and it's really engaged me that way.  The few bumps in the road I've encountered haven't deterred me from that end, and whenever I do get fed up with something, hopping on to play a few rounds of deathmatch eases that right then and there.

Hopefully you can figure out what's causing most of your troubles and rectify it, Cobra, or maybe find some alternative extra stuff in the game that might make your situation easier (does killing pigeons unlock bonus stuff at your safehouse like the other games did with the hidden packages?).  Don't be afraid to just walk away from something, either.  Sometimes when I lose I just get mad and say fuck it, then do a job for Jacob (can give you a small amount of cash and free ammo if you run into a rival gang during the mission), or win a race from Brucie, date my girl (the lawyer - she'll let you get rid of the cops instantly once a day if you call her), whatever.  That can be a help.

[Cobra951]

Honestly, I have to face up to the fact that I'm not as good at the visceral stuff in games as I used to be.  Reflexes are one possibility, but a greater contributor might be a loss of intensity or focus on my part.  It doesn't get my blood up like it used to.  Age?  Other things in my subconscious?  Don't know.

There is good stuff hidden around all over the place, as in previous games in the series.  It takes a lot of exploring to find, which as I've said, is how I spend most of the time in games like this.  I like to look everywhere I can reach.  Once you start finding it, it gets easier, which makes it all the more frustrating that the missions get tough for me.  I've found body armor (fills the rest of the circle around the radar/map in blue), a better submachine gun than that Uzi you buy early on, a shotgun, an AK47 and molotov cocktails.

The mission which had me turn off the system in disgust had me getting chased and continually pelted by lead no matter what I did with the car.  They were always right there.  Every time I tried to turn around to fire, something would go wrong.  The camera would end up showing my left ear, or they'd pile into me and keep shooting.  I couldn't do one fucking thing to even know which end was up.  Car went up in flames, and the new long and annoying process of getting out of a moving car went on too long.  It was late, and I should have quit before even starting.  I'll hopefully do better at it today.

Edit:  Heh.  It's done.  The hell with trying to drive with your targets behind you.  Get out of the car, duck somewhere, and let them have it with the Kalashnikov.  Works wonders.  There were 3 cars chasing me.  No wonder.

[MysterD]

EDIT - So I think I'm starting to get a little sick of this game.  It isn't really because I'm tired of it, it's more that... I guess that I don't feel like this is a pick up and play game for me at all.  I find when I only have a couple of hours, I just don't want to even get invested.  It's only when I've got like 4 hours of solid time at least that I actually want to boot it up.  I'm not entirely sure why that is.  I mean, games in general tend to be that way for me, but usually I don't need quite such a big block of time in order to want to make the effort.

I think that's b/c of the way GTA Series is designed.

No Quicksave
Without being able to quicksave the game at any time you absolutely feel like, this is why it is not a game you can really play little by little. It's not like Oblivion where you have this huge world and you can just save whenever and wherever; even if you're in the midst of a quest or not. Games w/ quicksaves are easy for me to do the pick-up-and-play for a short time period thing -- and GTA games just were never one of those kind of games.

Safehouses / Save Points
To get more save points in GTA opened-up, you have to actually earn them -- whether it's by somehow earning enough money however you can to buy another safehouse somewhere on the gameworld or by finishing some sort of key mission to the game to earn the safehouse.

With not too many save points opened-up, you'll be riding around a lot to eventually get to your savepoint. And in that meantime, you'll often either wind up doing a mission on your way to get back to a save point or messing around in the gameworld until you actually make it back to the save point.

I'm sure w/ the new fast-travelling in GTA4, that has to help this issue a little bit, at least somewhat.

Missions
Many missions in the GTA games have multiple pieces. If you fail, you are not given an autosave for finishing a part of a mission -- so that if you fail it, you can pick up from one of the autosave that is at an important keypoint in the mission (which actually Freelancer does and is a good feature for this kind of game). If you fail any part of a mission, you normally have to restart the entire mission completely. That is very annoying -- especially since some of the GTA missions can be quite long, too.

And w/ GTA, often, if I fail a mission, I'll either try it again and again numerous times until I get it right, try some other mission. And even if I get frustrated w/ failing main missions, that eventually just leads me to messing around in the city, doing whatever else I feel like in the gameworld. And that, I can easily get lost in for a good while.

Messing Around
Sometimes, I can just put GTA on not to do any really do any missions, but just ride around and mess around in the gameworld for a while. I can get lost in that for some time, myself.

I think this is partially a problem with how many really good portable games I've been playing.  I don't really *ever* have to leave off with those.  I just pick them up, play a little while, and even if I have to go to bed in an hour, I can play the thing on my way to work in the morning, on my breaks, whatever.  But for something like this, I have to abandon it entirely for a fairly substantial period, and for some reason that throws me when I'm playing a game in which my primary consideration is to be immersed.  A couple hours just doesn't cut it.

So yeah, I guess I'm just entirely neurotic.  Oh well.

No, I don't think it's neurotic. I just think that GTA is a game series w/ the way it's designed; this is really not something designed for you play for say 20 mins. It's an addictive time sink that goes on for hours before you decide to shut it down, most of the time.

[Cobra951]

I don't think the fast traveling is nearly as useful as it sounds.  I know the trains aren't going to save me any time.  I still need to get to and from them, and I'm going to be without a car at my destination until I steal one.  The taxis I don't think would be much better, though I have yet to try them at all.  I would love a checkpoint system in the missions.

I'm finally in Manhattan.  Yay!  I was only one mission away, and the one I was griping about wasn't from the right NPC.  I am very impressed with downtown NYC, er, LC.  I guess it's back to the love side of this schizo relationship.  I did a fun mission downtown too, which I lost the first time.  I got rushed, and discovered I can't shoot when 3 guys are holding on to me.  I'm wondering if I can swim to the Statue of Happiness.  I have yet to find any boats in this game.  (Are there any?)

[Quemaqua]

It's funny how different our experiences have been, Cobra. One of the first things I did when I could was grab a cab and just go riding around.  It's a great way to just see some of the city... just watch it float on by as you ride.  Also, you can instantly travel to whatever destination you select in the cab by paying a couple extra bucks.  It's super great if you're not wanting to make a long drive.  Set a waypoint, hail a cab, hop in, select waypoint, then select fast travel.  Bam, you can be at the other end of the city in 2 seconds.  Also, it's worth trying one of Roman's cabs if you get a chance.  I will bet you 10 bucks you won't be able to resist shotgunning the guy after he drops you off.

And yes, there are a number of different kinds of boats.  I had a great time with my first one.  It was sort of a small yacht type thing, and I actually swam at it and outran it by cutting it off at an angle, and then I got on board and started messing with the guy driving.  He was yelling at me, but I didn't realize I was supposed to hit triangle to get in the driver's seat and throw him out.  So I just shot him.  Oops!  Took the thing for a spin around the island... man, there are some really, really nice water effects in this game.  They just look very natural and unobtrusive.

[scottws]

Man, looking at the GTA4 box is so awesome. 

[Cobra951]

Scott, I just went through your woes, so trust me, I feel your pain.  I didn't have a brand new GTA game waiting for me, though.

I guess I've ignored cab rides long enough.  One time I called Roman to send me one of his free ones, but then it just drove past me.  I chased it, but it got away.  It struck me as funny, and I never tried it again.  Shotgun the driver?  Is he that much of a pain in the ass?

I imagine triangle is the same as Y.   It's the top face button, and Y gets you in and out of most things.  I want a boat!  I also heard that I can pilot a helicopter at some point.  That will be a new experience.  Planes were a blast in SA.

You know what else is impressive are the cabaret and comedy routines.  The 3D animation is superb, and the performances look very natural.  Just standing at a busy intersection downtown and watching all the happenings is entertaining.  I get strong deja vu feelings at times, with the last one being that long, wide walkway by the river, straight as an arrow.  I've was on the real one when I went to Manhattan to see Ground Zero a few years ago.

[Quemaqua]

I've never been to New York, so it's all new to me.  I've actually never really been to the east coast.  New Orleans is as far over as I've ever gotten.  Place reminds me plenty of San Francisco and Oakland at times, though.

And yeah, the cabaret and comedy stuff is pretty great.  The amount of just random stuff in here amazes me... not so much just because it's there, but because there's so much and because all of it is fully voiced and feels just as polished as the most story-centric, necessary parts of the game.  I'm dating a girl, and she's just some random side thing I could have avoided entirely if I wanted to, yet the three times we've been out she's had new audio conversation for me that gives me insight into her character.  It's incredible.

EDIT - It's about 10:30 at night in the game now, and it's raining heavily.  I'm in a cab, just watching the city go by (I didn't even tell the guy to hurry).  I love rain as you all know, and the city at night is my favorite time for it... lights reflecting everything, slick streets, people running for cover.  And it's great to see the experience here in the game as robust as I could want it.  It's moments like this that make open-world games such an amazing thing.  It isn't about just being open, it's about experiencing games in a different way entirely.

[ren]

Cobra, definitely et cabs. Roman's are worth it a few times for the driver but once you're past that just hail regular ones down. You can skip the driving part and get anywhere in the city within two or three seconds; absolutely great when the driving gets monotonous.

Myd, you can save anywhere in GTAIV. When you start the game again you start at your safehouse and have to get to the mission again but that can be accomplished within a few seconds thanks to cabs. You can't pick up the mission where you left off but that's not a big deal since most of them are so short anyways.

I haven't bothered much with searching for ammo and items. I just buy them whenever I'm low, there's nothing else to do with money so why not? Finding the pigeons is ridiculous. I'm about 15 hours in and I've gotten three so far.

[PyroMenace]

*sigh* More GTA frustration.

Well I finished the game... after the final mission I get a call from Roman... oh wait... I was getting in my car while he was calling! Oops... guess ill never get to find out what a crucial character is going to tell me about the final events in the game...

[Cobra951]

I would be a lot of money that an accurate transcript of that call is out on some FAQ or walkthrough somewhere.

I finally grabbed a boat, and spent over a half hour just cruising the waterways.  In first-person view, it was outstanding.  I can't take that for very long.  Vertigo becomes an issue, especially when the boat starts to bounce over the waves.  What a great experience, though.  It started out at night, then dawn illuminated Manhattan like a spotlight.  I'm so glad the radio now works on just about everything, without the intentional quality degradation from SA.  Listening to jazzy stuff made it even better.  The only low point was when I guess I wandered too close to New Jersey, and suddenly I had a big wanted circle.  Fortunately, there weren't any boys in blue anywhere near me on the water, though all these police cars were running around on the coast and bridges.

Obviously, I've missed out on a very helpful game mechanic with the cabs.  I don't even think about them.  Even after hearing about them a few posts up, I didn't pay attention in the game.  If I can really get there in a couple of seconds, it would be the thing to do when reloading saves after a blown mission.  The only compelling reason for me to reload instead of retry is the body armor, sometimes ammo.  Chasing supplies down takes a lot more time.  I guess the cabs make that even more of a no-brainer.

[ren]

*sigh* More GTA frustration.

Well I finished the game... after the final mission I get a call from Roman... oh wait... I was getting in my car while he was calling! Oops... guess ill never get to find out what a crucial character is going to tell me about the final events in the game...

Check the briefs?

[scottws]

I don't think I'd like the cabs.  One of the challenges of the game was getting someplace without getting arrested.  I don't want to say it was never frustrating, but I know several times I'd be on my way someplace when I'd accidentally flip my car or something and have to get a new one and then the cops would see me and chase me.  It's part of the game for me, and since driving is the best part I don't want to miss it.

[Cobra951]

Same here.  Getting around myself is the vast majority of the game for me.  I don't want to skip it.  But if I'm repeating something because I'm not given a better choice (like mission checkpoints) then I want to get past the perfunctory stuff as soon as possible.

[Cobra951]

Christ.  I got a helicopter.  From the top of the Getalife building:



Awesome beyond belief.

Edit:  Oh, that was weird.  I stole this chopper, and while I was flying, I got an invitation . . .

(click to show/hide)

. . . to fly a chopper with Brucie.  Then the mission took me to this very spot!  We didn't quite land, though.  I had figured out most of the controls, but I missed RB and LB to turn the chopper.

[Quemaqua]

The cabs are fine.  You do a *lot* of driving in this game when you consider how much you have to do for the little "hey dude, let's hang out" shit.  You'll probably even get sick of it from time to time because you'll have to drive all the way from the middle island to the furthest reaches of another one just to pick someone up, then where you want to go might be back on the other island again.  It gets pretty annoying if you're spending much time trying to keep relationships up.  Frankly, that mechanic needs work.  It's a totally awesome addition to the game and I'm very glad it's there, but you shouldn't lose ground with people every time you have to turn them down, nor should they require as much attention as they do.  It's one thing with the girlfriends since they're supposed to be a little needy and stuff, but everyone else needs to chill the fuck out and stop calling me.  I want to hang out with them, but I don't necessarily feel like driving for a half hour to do it.  And the problem with cabs in that case is that a cab ride may not be fast enough to get to where your friend is since you have to do it within an in-game hour.  So you pretty much have to drive.

So yeah, trust me, you'll use the cabs at some point.  If you don't, you either wish GTA was just a racing game, in which case you should buy Burnout Paradise, or you have a lot more time than I do.

[Cobra951]

I am starting to get more thumbs down from the characters.  I try not to ignore any one of them more than twice in a row, but frankly, I wish I could just turn that off entirely.  (Turning off the phone doesn't stop them from trying, and you find out later you lost more friendship points, or whatever they are.)  I'm hovering over the Hudson and I get a call to go out drinking.  "I'm kind of in the middle of something."  Good choice of words, Niko.  Now I can land the chopper on any street, though.  Can I take Michelle up in it? 

[Quemaqua]

Heh, I never took her up in it, but I did take Roman out to eat via copter a bit ago.  That was pretty amusing (though he didn't acknowledge the copter... a shame!).

[sirean_syan]

I took another girl on a date in a helicopter. Not a helitour, but in a helicopter I liberated so we could go grab a burger. She didn't acknowledge it unfortunately. So far, the best acknowledgment of the vehicle I used picked someone up for an outing was Roman.

"I think you like these motorcycles because I have to get close to you." That's not an exact quote, but you get the idea.

[Ghandi]

Well, you have to give them points for realism. I gave a girl a lift on a helicopter once and all she did was scream. Not one mention of the kick ass ride...

[Quemaqua]

Heh, yeah, they all seem to recognize bikes.  Jacob seems to like them quite a bit, actually.

[sirean_syan]

I don't know if it's just my imagination, but it feels like there has been a lot more pop-in during my last couple sessions. All I can think of is that the patch is the only thing that has changed in the past few days. Any other PS3ers notice the same thing?

[Quemaqua]

It seems to vary a whole lot.  I've noticed it come and go as I've played.  I don't think they changed anything in that regard.

[PyroMenace]

Well I finished it. I beat it again just a minute ago to see the alternate ending. Just so you guys know, I recommend keeping a backup save handy so you can go back and see them both. Other than that I obviously wont say anything else about the ending. I can just say that I was satisfied and it made sense to me. 

So yea, after it all is finished I have to say that all the glowing reviews are justified. Sure its arguable that maybe it shouldnt have rated so ridiculously high, but if you cant score the game a 9.9, then you can at least agree its in the 9s. There are lots of little things I can point out and go on for a good while that I found particular and questionable, but its all totally eclipsed by everything else. When I first started the game, it didnt immediately seize my attention. It was really just a pretty GTA, but as I progressed, its mostly the little details that you start to notice, then more of the story starts to take shape, by that point its hard to stop. Its the most refined GTA, wrapped around a fantastic story. The biggest strength is the way its carries the relationships throughout the game. Few games with characters carry such personality as this. Niko Bellic is like one the most memorable characters out of this generation of games, if not THE most memorable one.

So finish the game! So we can talk about it. 

[Quemaqua]

I'm working on it!  The game says I'm about 50% done now after 37 hours.

[scottws]

I can't believe you beat it already Pyro.  It always took me at least a month.  I always spent hours and hours just stirring up trouble or doing cop missions or stuff like that.

[Cobra951]

I'm at less than 30%, with over 40 hours into it.  That reflects how I enjoy these games, though, rather than saying it's a 150-hour game.  I think there's an achievement for finishing it in under 30 hours, which to me is ridiculous.  Achievements should not encourage blowing past all the finer points of the game.  Finer points like:

I was indulging in my latest obsession with helicopter flying when I get a call from Brucie.  He needed a lift.  So I went and picked him up in the copter.  No horn, so I get out, and walk to him.  Then he follows me back and jumps in.  We take off, and he has the usual kind of car conversation with me on the flight.  The place I had to drop him off was tight, under some trees, by some telephone poles.  I set down very carefully, but still drew sparks from stuff around.  He gets off, and I take off.

Next, Michelle calls.  I go pick her up, no problem.  She sprints over as usual.  I take her to the comedy club downtown, and that nose on the building sticks out too far.  I'm rattling against it with the blades, and I can't quite get to the 'V' indicator.  So I force it.  We get out of the thing just as the blades disingtegrate.  The copter is till sitting there, just no blades.  We go in, watch the routine and come back out.  Now I need transportation.  I try hailing a cab. but they're all full.  So I go across the intersection where a couple is waiting in their car for the light.  I pull the guy out of the driver's seat, and Michelle pulls the woman out the passenger side and throws her to the street.  Off we go.  As we're crossing the bridge, she says "you drive like a gangster".  She still lets me in to her apartment after all that.

On the infuriating side of the experience, I'm now trying to tackle this mission where I go into a place to kill a lot of guys, then have to get out the same and only way, through waves of SWAT.  It sucks.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah Cobra, I hated that one.  Took me like 4 tries until I figured out that yes, you can actually kill all the guys and come out okay.  I tried various methods of escape before that and failed all of them, but if you blow through the guys you'll get a clear break before another wave comes.  But it's hard as nails to escape the cops once helicopters are involved.  But it's doable... you'll get it.  I find most of the game's frustration is tied to a few really tough missions, most of the others are okay... you just have to suffer through the tough ones.

[Cobra951]

I did it!  I got through it.

(click to show/hide)

The Snow Storm mission I mean.  I used a helicopter and landed it by the water, near the hole in the fence.  Shot my way into the ruined building then shot my way back out.  I flew away in the copter, but to my dismay, the wanted level stays centered on the chopper at all times.  So I landed on Happiness Island near the boats.  Sprinted to a boat while taking damage from guys on foot.  Nearly lost when the camera decided to be an absolute bitch.  I had a very hard time getting on the boat, while getting shot.  One of the guys jumped into the water after me, or he fell in.  That was funny.  Boating away took a long while, with boats and choppers on my tail.  I thought it was all over when I started to get pelted at one point, but then I made a turn up the Humbolt river and lost everyone.  Then I had to go meet Little Jacob.  Learning that pissed me off again.  It turned out to be easy, but really, any chance of losing the mission after all that is just too much.

That's the hardest one so far.  I have a feeling it won't stay that way.

Coca Cola's GTA nod.