Topic: Holy shit! +20 dead in shooting

[angrykeebler]

This is breaking news so the figures might be off later but right now the police are saying 22 people are dead as a result of a shooting at Virginia Tech
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html??2

[Ghandi]

My sister goes there. I woke up with a text message from her saying herself and her friends are safe. I thought, "huh?". Then I read this. Talk about a reality check.

[nickclone]

Great, it was probably some loser, pimply faced virgin who didn't have the decency to just kill himself and leave everyone else alone.

[Pugnate]

One of my cousins goes there. Crazy stuff.

[angrykeebler]

holy shit! At least 31 dead.. number keeps climbing.

[idolminds]

According to a couple foums, Jack Thompson has already been on the news blaming games. They arent even totally sure who the dude is yet! (the gunshot that killed him messed his face up apparently, so they are having difficulty identifying him)

[iPPi]

Holy crap, that's really crazy. 

[scottws]

That's pretty nuts.  Wow.  Glad I don't know anyone that goes to VT.

[Ghandi]

My sister was only a building away from the worst of it. She's pretty shook up. Lots of tears about what could have happened. My cousin also goes there but luckily he's o.k. I listened to NPR and apparently people were hearing laughter after every shot. What a fucked up person. Can't type anymore now, so angry / sad / and yet relieved for my sister and cousin.

[Pugnate]

I listened to NPR and apparently people were hearing laughter after every shot

Oh god that is so sick. Nothing I've read really disgusted me as much that. That makes me nauseous.

edit:

I don't like to blame people easily for any tragedy, but what the @$@% were they thinking not canceling classes when the first incident occurred hours earlier?

edit:

Profile from Fox News:

Young Asian Male

Two handguns

Looking for his girlfriend.

[Ghandi]

Apparently the police thought that it was an isolated incident. There was 2 hours in between the shootings, though. TWO HOURS!!! Think of the lives that could have been saved.

[Pugnate]

I don't know... in this day and age a cat gets stuck up a tree and they shutdown everything. Just about every time it seems like an overreaction, but for once that would have saved lives.

[shock]

That's just a few hours from Washington DC, where I am going to school.  Everyone is talking about it here.

I'm confused as to the response, but I will wait for more details before judgment is passed.

[Pugnate]

I am going to bed cause it be late here.

Here is CNN's article:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

The killings mark the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, surpassing attacks at Columbine High School in 1999 and at the University of Texas in 1966.

I worry crazies will read that and think of it as a goal to surpass.

[Ghandi]

Well, I don't think this guy did it to surpass any goal. Sounds like a girlfriend issue to me. Or, rather, girlfriend problems. Psychotic issue.

[W7RE]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting;_ylt=Atrj_6P8g5uQjqowp0_aXzes0NUE

Students complained that there were no public-address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.

The massacre took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing at least two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, authorities said.

Students and Laura Wedin, a student programs manager at Virginia Tech, said the first notification they got of the shootings came in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m., more than two hours after the first shooting.

Student Maurice Hiller said he went to a 9 a.m. class two buildings away from the engineering building, and no warnings were coming over the outdoor public address system on campus at the time.

[shock]

I am sort of understanding it more.

Only 2 people were shot in the dorm building at 7:xx.  Police responded, found 2 bodies in a dorm room, and figured it was an isolated incident.  There wasn't anything to indicate that shit was going to go down.

Then, a few hours later, it became clear when the crazy entered an academic building and started shooting.

[Ghandi]

That's correct shock, but I still don't understand why they didn't shut down the campus. The fact that they didn't the shooter or a gun should have alerted them that he was still on the loose.

It's still early on, though, and I'm sure that we will learn more later on.

[scottws]

That's correct shock, but I still don't understand why they didn't shut down the campus. The fact that they didn't the shooter or a gun should have alerted them that he was still on the loose.

It's still early on, though, and I'm sure that we will learn more later on.

I'm starting to get pissed off about these kinds of remarks I'm hearing out of individuals and the media.  What about it happening on a college campus translates it into it being treated as a terrorist attack?  There are probaby hundreds of shootings across the U.S. every day where the shooter is at large hours after the shooting.  Do they shut down cities or towns?  No.

In fact I find it downright offensive to the victims of such shootings that they are so easily cast under the rug while people are expressing outrage nationwide that there wasn't a lockdown when the exact same thing happens, except it's on a college campus.

Someone got shot and killed on the street in front of one of my college's buildings and there was no outrage expressed when the campus wasn't shut down.  Why not?  Because there was no reason to.  Just because someone got shot doesn't mean the shooter (who was never caught by the way) was going to go around wasting people.

The media is taking advantage of the situation and blowing it way out of proportion and unfairly grilling the administration and police.  I mean of course there is going to be hindsight in a case like this, but damn, put yourselves in the shoes of the administration after the first shooting.  Was there any sign at all that this guy was going to do this?  It's not like he was busting down doors in the dorm and shooting in there.  He went into one room and that was it.

And shit like what Matt Lauer said is just retarded.  He said he was surprised how close he could get to the dorm where the first shooting took place and that if he had a swipe card he could have gotten in.  Hello you fucking idiot, a ton of other peoples' homes are in there.  What do you expect?

[idolminds]

According to what I've heard and read, at 7am they heard shots and found 2 people dead. They assumed it was just a homicide case, the suspect of course being long gone so they were investigating as an isolated incident. No one thought that 2 hours later he would pop up again at the other side of the campus and go on a rampage.

[W7RE]

Yea my impression was that he had been killing people i the dorm, not just a couple people.

Of course I'm not surprised by the whole shooting thing. People are shit, so you gotta expect shitty things to happen.

[sirean_syan]

That's more or less what I was talking about with Aimee a few minutes ago, Scott. You don't shut down a neighborhood when a muder happens, why should it be any different when it happens on a college campus. I could understand if it happened in a boarding school or something similiar, but not a large open air university.

It sucks though. The administrators and campus police are going to be dragged through the mud and it really doesn't seem like they did anything wrong. It just makes the tradegy even worse.

[Quemaqua]

The media is getting ridiculous.  They're the cause of so much of this kind of garbage, and I agree that there's no reason the admins/cops involved in this need to be lambasted.  Everyone else has always said about what I'm thinking, so I won't repeat it.  Yeah, we have shootings around where I live all the time.  My neighborhood is pretty safe, but just blocks away all kinds of shit goes down.  What are you going to do?  Crime is an unfortunate fact of life, and unfortunately so are deranged homicidal maniacs.  You can't close life because something bad happens, and you can expect the whole neighborhood to be notified because somebody died.

[Pugnate]

Well if they couldn't have shutdown the campus, which is probably understandable considering they still can't find evidence to link the two killings, they should have at least issued a warning that a killer was on the loose. Though I guess it wouldn't have changed anything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6562259.stm

Police have also not said whether the gunman was a student but witnesses said he seemed to know a lot about the buildings, chaining doors to stop students escaping.

One student, Erin Sheehan, described him as "a little bit under six feet tall, young looking, Asian, dressed sort of strangely, almost like a boy scout, very short-sleeved light, tan shirt and some sort of ammo vest with black over it".

Some students complained angrily that they had received no warning from the university until an e-mail more than two hours after the first incident.

There were no public-address announcements, they said.

What? Why do you have to know a lot about the buildings to chain doors?

[Raisa]

So.. it's a chinese dude.. 36 dead and maybe more.. he killed his girlfriend.. god he must have a lot of anger inside.

how many people die every day in iraq?? 

well, what's weird is why didn't the school close down early in the week when they received bomb threats?  I guess it's always "it won't happen to us" sort of thing..

[scottws]

Well if they couldn't have shutdown the campus, which is probably understandable considering they still can't find evidence to link the two killings, they should have at least issued a warning that a killer was on the loose. Though I guess it wouldn't have changed anything.

This morning I heard interviews over the phone and face-to-face where some students were outraged that classes weren't cancelled or that at least they were informed about the incident "so [they] could make their own decision."  People are saying there should have been some sort of campus-wide broadcast.

Fuck, man.  You're telling me that if everyone heard that someone or two people got shot that people would have chosen not to go to class?  Bullshit.  Plus, the administrator said the college has 26,000 students, of which only 9,000 live on campus.  A broadcast, rather than an e-mail, would have been a disservice to all the commuters because they wouldn't have heard it.

Anyway, I'm really getting pissed about how the administration and police are being dragged through the mud on this.

[Raisa]

“Death has come trundling into our life, a sudden and savage entity laying waste to our hearts and making desolate our minds,” Verbrugge said during a prayer. “We need now the consolation only you can give.”

death is always there.. it's a constant

The e-mail had few details. It read: “A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

makes sense.. i figure if they made it more ominous, it would've caused havoc and created more damage.. then people would be saying "admin is overreacting"

[scottws]

Yeah, what were they supposed to say in this e-mail?  I mean 2 hours isn't really enough time to draw any conclusions in a murder investigation.

On the news this morning, a local kid who goes to VT said he thought the administration acted properly.  He said he'd prefer the administration provide information they know rather than speculate and induce a panic.

[Ghandi]

I blame the law enforcement. They didn't have the shooter after the first incident. It's fine to treat it like an isolated incident, but at least alert the general population that a shooter is on the loose. My sister went to class at around 9:00 having no idea anything had happened. Would she have done anything differently if she had known? Maybe, maybe not. As it turns out, she was only 1 building away from the shooter and heard many unfortunate things, as she was locked in the building for many hours. Should the law enforcement be solely responsible? Absolutely not, but you can't tell me that they did all that they could have.

[angrykeebler]

I blame the law enforcement. They didn't have the shooter after the first incident. It's fine to treat it like an isolated incident, but at least alert the general population that a shooter is on the loose. My sister went to class at around 9:00 having no idea anything had happened. Would she have done anything differently if she had known? Maybe, maybe not. As it turns out, she was only 1 building away from the shooter and heard many unfortunate things, as she was locked in the building for many hours. Should the law enforcement be solely responsible? Absolutely not, but you can't tell me that they did all that they could have.

I don't blame them at all for what they did. If they told the public that a shooter was on the loose then they would have spread panic. This is the first case I can remember where something like this happened. Usually, once a person kills then they will either continue killing or try and flee the city and/or state. This is almost always the case.

This was different. He killed 2 people then turned up 2 hours later? The police could not have predicted this 2 hour break. I do not blame them at all for how they handled this.

[Pugnate]

Well my cousin was asleep through the whole thing.

[Ghandi]

I don't blame them at all for what they did. If they told the public that a shooter was on the loose then they would have spread panic. This is the first case I can remember where something like this happened.

Actually a fugitive was on the loose in VT not too long ago (within the past year). He shot and killed a police officer. The town was alerted. He was captured. No one else died. I'll dig up the article when I get back home tonight, I don't have time right now.

[angrykeebler]

Actually a fugitive was on the loose in VT not too long ago (within the past year). He shot and killed a police officer. The town was alerted. He was captured. No one else died. I'll dig up the article when I get back home tonight, I don't have time right now.

Yes but who would the police have alerted in this case? These are KIDS. I'm sure the police thought 1. The shooter is most likely a student.  2. He has killed and now he is on the run and has left the campus.

So they should have alerted the students to the fact that there was a shooting? What would that have accomplished exactly? I am pretty sure those kids would have gone to class anyways.

I stand by the police. They are taking shit for this and it wasn't their fault at all.

[Pugnate]

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but a lot of this coverage is so freakin' retarded. All these professional news sources are suddenly shooting for academy awards with stupid sappy loud piano music and uttering weird uncomfortable mushy cliches. These aren't students, or professors or anyone related to what happened, but professional news anchors acting like B movie actors with obviously fake sad voices and slow deliberate tones milking the story for all its worth.

Plus there is all this shameless self promotion. WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE MASSACRE? KEEPING WATCHING US! THAT'S RIGHT! US!

I am sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

Also they had some guy one insisting that after the first shooting all the of students should have been sent a text message. Would that have really been possible? I doubt the school has those numbers and how are you going to mass text message when you aren't sure what happened?

I was thinking though. If someone was murdered on the campus of the college my sister attends I'd want her out of there asap.

[MysterD]

Just about every paper I read and every news report I've heard and seen on this, they always keep making sure to toss in the high body count number and that it's a brand new record for a college shooting.

WTF???!?!?!

[Jedi]

Just about every paper I read and every news report I've heard and seen on this, they always keep making sure to toss in the high body count number and that it's a brand new record for a college shooting.

WTF???!?!?!

Well People did die D so there's going to be a body count, and it is the highest to give you sense of just how bad it is.

[NatchDan]

Okay, I won't post the picture for two reasons, one because it's kind of insensitive and two because I can't find it. Anyway.

I keep seeing a picture from a records site and it said "Most people killed in a terrorist attack", lists 9-11, and then in the bottom right there's a link saying "Break this record!". Seems to me that's what news outlets are sub(consciously?) advocating.

[Quemaqua]

The world depresses me.

[Raisa]

Police
Just how much should the police have done???

I really think what they did was okay - it was 2 deaths. It's a huge campus.  Just how can you cover that entire thing and ensure the safety of 26000 students?  Again, I think if they alerted everyone in a more "urgent" tone and sent out messages everywhere... it could've put ideas into other people minds.  We could have had more shooters taking advantage of the situation.  If I was police and they called in the whole squadron to look into 2 deaths and handle 20000 panicky students.. and nothing happened after that... Anyway..  i bet if the second shooting happened a day later, the police would still get all this flack.  It's hard to catch a shooter within the same day unless you're on the spot or close by when the incident takes place.

Several people are injured, some critical cause they panicked and jumped out the windows.. doh..  imagine if a message was sent out and you got idiots who can't think straight when a warning is sent out.

Coverage
It's sad... as they say.. money makes the world go round.

I read this news article about a student who was supposed to be in that building, she was late for class cause she couldn't find her shoes or something.. she got the email and decided to stay and just read the news.. and got messages from her friend who was in the same room the gunman was in.  She lived next to the building where the shooting was and she couldn't hear the gunshots.

[Ghandi]

Yes but who would the police have alerted in this case? These are KIDS. I'm sure the police thought 1. The shooter is most likely a student.  2. He has killed and now he is on the run and has left the campus.

So they should have alerted the students to the fact that there was a shooting? What would that have accomplished exactly? I am pretty sure those kids would have gone to class anyways.

I stand by the police. They are taking shit for this and it wasn't their fault at all.

Well, most importantly it would alert the students that there was a murderer on the loose. Why does everyone seem to think that this would cause mass hysteria? If there was a murder on my campus and they hadn't found the killer, I would like to know about it. Let me answer your question (What would that have accomplished exactly?) with another- What would have been the harm in letting people know? Actually, let me answer your question- it could have accomplished saving 30 lives. Actually, Raisa just pointed out that it saved one life. The girl stayed home because she read the email about the initial murders.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but a lot of this coverage is so freakin' retarded. All these professional news sources are suddenly shooting for academy awards with stupid sappy loud piano music and uttering weird uncomfortable mushy cliches. These aren't students, or professors or anyone related to what happened, but professional news anchors acting like B movie actors with obviously fake sad voices and slow deliberate tones milking the story for all its worth.

Plus there is all this shameless self promotion. WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE MASSACRE? KEEPING WATCHING US! THAT'S RIGHT! US!

Yes, I couldn't agree more. It's sad that these families get bombarded with media coverage in their grief.