Topic: Halo 2 impressions.

[idolminds]

Does MS want GFW to fail? Because both of their own GFW branded games feel like a board meeting discussed all the ways to make the games suck and then implemented them all.

Vista-only
2.5 year old console port
minimal updates to graphics
Huge system requirements despite the dated visuals
unbalanced multiplayer based on control method (pretty much kills multiplayer entirely)
Requires Live! subscription to get all the features

And then for shadowrun:
"balanced" controls by gimping KBM players
Only 9 maps
No map editor (which means the only new maps will be DLC that you have to pay for)
No dedicated servers
Again, Live Gold required for all features
vista only
console centric FPS


You know if MS just decided to release Gears of War instead I know more people would be all over this. I would be wanting Vista so bad just so I could get the game.

[MysterD]

The problem is Microsoft is taking this console games and -- well, keeping it very console-esque.

Last time I checked, this campaign of Microsoft's was supposed to be "Games For Windows", not "Console Games Emulated For The New Windows Console Orientated Operating System."

If Microsoft wants to do right by PC Gamers with porting console games to the PC, they need to look at all of the successful console game that became PC games, which got it right -- KOTOR PC, Jade Empire PC, just to name a few. All these games upgraded their graphics and modified their controls to really suit a PC gamers style of gameplay.

Barelu upgrading graphics and giving gamepads an edge will not make PC gamers happy. What Microsoft's goal should be is to find a way to make it an equalng field for KB/mouse games and control pad; and yeah, good luck w/ that endeavor...

[Quemaqua]

This is why I keep wondering if MS is just trying to kill off PC gaming entirely.  Obviously they wouldn't spend money and effort to do that, but it just seems like what they're doing.  I guess they're just trying to assert their control over the PC since they already had a marginal control over it already with Windows.

But I tell you what, this needs to be fought.  Tooth and nail.  There is no margin for interpretation - this is a power grab that will result in nothing but consumers having less control and paying more money.  This has to stop, right along with all other systems that attempt to remove control from the user, ala STEAM.  The consumer is losing this battle, and that's mostly because too many people are giving these companies the money to let them win it.

[MysterD]

This is why I keep wondering if MS is just trying to kill off PC gaming entirely.  Obviously they wouldn't spend money and effort to do that, but it just seems like what they're doing.  I guess they're just trying to assert their control over the PC since they already had a marginal control over it already with Windows.

Oh, I think Microsoft is spending the $ to try and make it look like so, w/ their new "Games For Windows" campaign, but they are asserting their authority over something they already have -- Gamers On Windows.

They're trying to do that more so w/ Vista than anything, but they keep failing to give us reasonable reasons to jump to Vista. They keep pushing Vista, yet there's nothing great and spectacular about it, really. And, it don't help that 3rd parties and supporting it to the fullest, either. And, it don't help that way too early, they're pushing Vista exclusives that really ain't worth your while. Halo 2 for Vista? C'mon now; gimmie a break. Idol's right -- they'd have a better chance w/ Gears of War for Vista as a Vista exclusive.

But I tell you what, this needs to be fought.  Tooth and nail.  There is no margin for interpretation - this is a power grab that will result in nothing but consumers having less control and paying more money.  This has to stop, right along with all other systems that attempt to remove control from the user, ala STEAM.  The consumer is losing this battle, and that's mostly because too many people are giving these companies the money to let them win it.

I like some of the things about STEAM, such as being able to buy games online and not need the CD/DVD after you do an install. But, you are right -- there's so much about STEAM that needs fixing. Forcing patches on users whether they like it or not and single-player games not working when STEAM goes down are just the starting point of that.

Y'know, it's nice that Valve is against the whole "Windows Live" idea and that if you buy a game, you get all content for it, so you won't get nickled and dimed for playing online and/or that if you want extra multiplayer maps or other little junk you'll have to pay up -- but, they have their own quirks and schemes, too. Their whole scheme to make HL2 owners and/or HL2: Ep One owners re-buy game(s) re-packaged in HL2: Orange is dumb. We don't need those games, if we already have them -- just bring back the HL2: Black Box. And I sure as hell don't want to just buy them off STEAM separately, either. Valve's methods always have been quite questionable -- and it shows.
 

[Quemaqua]

I don't have a problem with frontends or online distribution methods, either.  But just take a look at the way Stardock did it with its Stardock Central frontend/storefront.  The thing is completely unintrusive, does only what you want it to and no more, and you can still order a hard copy of their games for shipping while you download the online copy.  They don't force you to use the program if you want to play one of their games either, though you can use it for patching and playing and whatever else also if you feel the need.  I have nothing against that.  I have everything against rights being taken away from the consumer.

[Jedi]

This is good, there's only going to be 3 games which are compatable with Windows Live set to be released in the whole of 2007.
Source

[idolminds]

And Uno. Thats just...wow.

[Pugnate]

I very much doubt that M$ are trying to kill PC gaming, but I think they are just being operated by a bunch of retarded monkeys.

But I agree it does look odd. Also it looks like Halo 3 will be about the same as Halo 2 -- which is insane. So how hard would it have been to port Halo 3 to Windows Vista? What better way to boost Vista sales?

What harm would there have been to have made Halo 3 a Vista exclusive alongside the 360 version?

Also I have a question. What the hell is it that Bungie are doing? They are basically releasing a game based on a modified version of a seven year old engine. Halo 2 didn't like all that better than Halo, and from the screenies it looks like Halo 3 looks only slightly better than Halo 2.

Hell even the weapons look the exact fucking same.

How is that even possible?

[gpw11]

"Y'know, it's nice that Valve is against the whole "Windows Live" idea and that if you buy a game, you get all content for it, "

Really?  Fuck, I'm pretty sure my copy of HL2 didn't come with an ending.  Should I bring it back?

Edit:

"
What harm would there have been to have made Halo 3 a Vista exclusive alongside the 360 version?"

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it would make no business sense for Microsoft to do so.

[Pugnate]

It might have boosted the sales of Vista, if they are serious about the OS as a gaming platform.

[idolminds]

Yeah, while releasing Halo 3 on PC at the same time as 360 would have been a nice gesture, MS really has no reason to do so. Halo is a console series, and they know PC gamers generally aren't too thrilled with the series (mainly because MS has never given us a reason to care).

Halo 3 will sell a billion copies on 360 and they will release the PC version in 2010.

That said, if they had picked something like Gears to port they might get some excitement. Or...hell, show you really fucking care and make a title specifically for PC. Mechwarrior 5, a new Crimson Skies, Midtown Madness....something.

[Pugnate]

Yea I have to say while I don't think MS are deliberately undermining the PC as a platform, it would be nice to get some obvious actions. A new Mechwarrior or Crimson Skies would be great.

[gpw11]

It might have boosted the sales of Vista, if they are serious about the OS as a gaming platform.

It would have boosted the short term sales of Vista, but without actually selling any additional units over the long run.  If someone is going to run out and buy Vista now for Halo3, they're going to run out and buy it in a year or so for Gears of War or whatever else comes out that's Vista Exclusive.

Meanwhile, it's taking hardware sales away from them in a competive market in order to boost sales in a market that's not nearly as competitive.  Microsoft is a large enough corporation to be able to sit back with a lower rate of  return and wait in order to reap the rewards of a higher total return on that investment.  They'll wait until they feel that Halo 3 has served its purpose as a system seller.

Edit: and I'd have to imagine that they'd take piracy into account and just figure that there'd be a general loss of total sales (xbox and pc) if they did that.  Why buy an xbox for it when you can just buy an OS and then get the game for free?

[Pugnate]

Yea you are prolly right. Time is on their side.

[MysterD]

I very much doubt that M$ are trying to kill PC gaming, but I think they are just being operated by a bunch of retarded monkeys.

But I agree it does look odd. Also it looks like Halo 3 will be about the same as Halo 2 -- which is insane. So how hard would it have been to port Halo 3 to Windows Vista? What better way to boost Vista sales?

What harm would there have been to have made Halo 3 a Vista exclusive alongside the 360 version?

Would've harmed XB360 sales for Halo 3.
Oh, no -- you know, Microsoft can't do that, you know...

What Microsoft should've done was sold a Halo 3: Collector's Edition for the PC, which for extras could've contained Halo 2 PC in the box.

Or...hell, show you really fucking care and make a title specifically for PC. Mechwarrior 5, a new Crimson Skies, Midtown Madness....something.

Oh, hell yes to a MW5 for the PC!!!!
Get goin', MS!!!!

[Jedi]

What Microsoft should've done was sold a Halo 3: Collector's Edition for the PC, which for extras could've contained Halo 2 PC in the box.

Huh what? Halo 3 isn't even out for the 360 yet and you wont see it on the PC until 2009!

[MysterD]

Huh what? Halo 3 isn't even out for the 360 yet and you wont see it on the PC until 2009!

Exactly my point -- in 2½ years, PC gamers won't care about Halo 3; so M$ might as well drop it for the PC and X360, simultaneously; yeah, when Halo 3 will actually be new.

But of course, that would defeat their plans of making Halo 3 sell to its max potential on the X360....

And obviously, when Halo 3 comes to the PC, some 2½ years or so from now, we might be actually playing something else much better -- oh, like say STALKER 2 or Monolith's FEAR 2.

Yeah, and we sure as hell won't see Duke Nukem Forever in 2009...

[Jedi]

Exactly my point -- in 2½ years, PC gamers won't care about Halo 3; so M$ might as well drop it for the PC and X360, simultaneously; yeah, when Halo 3 will actually be new.

But of course, that would defeat their plans of making Halo 3 sell to its max potential on the X360....

And obviously, when Halo 3 comes to the PC, some 2½ years or so from now, we might be actually playing something else much better -- oh, like say STALKER 2 or Monolith's FEAR 2.

Yeah, and we sure as hell won't see Duke Nukem Forever in 2009...

People will care about Halo 3 in 2 1/2 years as much as they care about Halo 2 now. What MS should do with Halo 3 (and shoud have done with Halo 2) is release the PC version much sooner ie 6 months - that still allows them to capitalize on the 360 sales first.

[gpw11]

But the thing is you can't even let people know you're planning on releasing it in the near future for the PC or else a lot of people will just wait for it.  There's nothing immoral or unethical about the way they do this, it just makes sense for them to do so.

But yeah, people will still care in 2 1/2 years or else you guys wouldn't be talking about Halo 2 right now. Beyond that, if you limit yourself to only one gaming platform, obviously you're going to have to either miss out or wait for a lot of games.

[MysterD]

What MS should do with Halo 3 (and shoud have done with Halo 2) is release the PC version much sooner ie 6 months - that still allows them to capitalize on the 360 sales first.

A PC release of the game some 6 months afterwards would make more sense, if they want to catch the attention of the PC gaming crowd.

Usually, most games sell at their best straight off the "new release rack", as soon as its releases in the first few weeks and all.

But the thing is you can't even let people know you're planning on releasing it in the near future for the PC or else a lot of people will just wait for it.  There's nothing immoral or unethical about the way they do this, it just makes sense for them to do so.

I held out for Jade Empire and Fable on the PC. C'mon, we all knew that w/ games being made by former PC companies (Bioware and Lionhead), so you knew it'd get a PC port....eventually.

And those two, they were done justice -- graphical upgrades, some extra content, tailor-made PC -style controls, etc etc.

But yeah, people will still care in 2 1/2 years or else you guys wouldn't be talking about Halo 2 right now. Beyond that, if you limit yourself to only one gaming platform, obviously you're going to have to either miss out or wait for a lot of games.

One of Halo 2 PC's biggest mistakes is being a Vista ONLY release. It'd probably make more sales, if it was coming to the Win XP and Vista, I'd bet. Not everyone's thrilled about Vista and wants to upgrade to it.....

And I don't think Halo PC's reputation is helping matters, w/ Halo 2 PC approaching. Most people knew this game for its technical issues (bad framerates), not-so-great PC graphics that never needed to support DX 9.0 Shaders in the first place, and repetitive "cut-n-paste" levels, and repetitive gameplay in the game's 2nd half....

And yes, wait I shall -- and even more so, for the games to hit the "Bargain Bin" rack and 'til I get Vista. That might be a pretty good while, from now.

[Jedi]

I held out for Jade Empire and Fable on the PC. C'mon, we all knew that w/ games being made by former PC companies (Bioware and Lionhead), so you knew it'd get a PC port....eventually.

Thankfully not everyone is like 
But GP is right you have to appear not to be releasing it to PC even if its a bloody given, and you certainly can't give any kind of street date for the port either.

[MysterD]

And things get interesting.

Some company plans to bring Shadowrun and Halo 2 to Win XP, whether MS likes it or not.

I smell possibility of a lawsuit coming...