Topic: War

[Ghandi]

I've been thinking a lot lately about war. Not just the wars going on today, but (for lack of a better word) the evolution of war. Were we born with this desire for war or did some species down the evolutionary line learn it? Either way, why was this inherently negative trait passed down so many generations? Why are we still fighting each other when it benefits so few? Are we simply evil? Perhaps this isn't an evolutionary trait so much as a state of being- perhaps our soul has this innate desire for war. I don't have any answers. Sometimes I feel like there is no answer. I read about Iraq, Sudan, even the impeding war between Israel and Hamas and I weep for our species.

Has anyone else felt similar? If not, what are your thoughts? I'm curious.

[Quemaqua]

I don't see why war is hard to get for some people, no offense.  People get pissed, they disagree, they end up in confrontation.  It's just what happens when you have two sides unwilling to relent.  If nobody will give up, it ends up going to ultimate extreme which is the complete removal of the opposition from the picture.  Saying it benefits few is ridiculous.  Wars have been a benefit to tons of people and countries throughout history.  Does that mean it doesn't hurt people?  Of course not.  Does that mean it's pleasant to lay one's life on the line for something?  Hell no. War sucks, no two ways about it.  But I think it happens for obvious and completely fathomable reasons.  I don't find it an even remotely mystifying subject, just an unpleasant one.

[Ghandi]

First, no need to say no offense, I asked for comments after all.

Of course I understand that it benefits some. I never found the cause mystifying, but rather why we perpetuate it. Is it an evolutionary trait to get what we want, or rather some innate born desire? If we get what we want through peaceful means, will the desire for war die off?

[scottws]

I think it's kind of a cultural thing.  I mean you have the gangsta blacks fighting it out with each other for territory or respect or whatever, and you have the fundamentalist Islamic people doing it for Allah, and you have a lot of the African countries (I admit I don't know the source of the conflicts there)...

I mean it's not like you see members of white-collar corporate America strapping it on and slugging it out violently with one another.

[nickclone]

I think it's kind of a cultural thing.  I mean you have the gangsta blacks fighting it out with each other for territory or respect or whatever, and you have the fundamentalist Islamic people doing it for Allah, and you have a lot of the African countries (I admit I don't know the source of the conflicts there)...

I mean it's not like you see members of white-collar corporate America strapping it on and slugging it out violently with one another.

That comment rubbed me the wrong way, especially seeing as how most of these white collars make their money off of the exploitation of people and their deaths. Most of these people get the types you listed to fight the "good fight" for them.

[angrykeebler]

That comment rubbed me the wrong way, especially seeing as how most of these white collars make their money off of the exploitation of people and their deaths. Most of these people get the types you listed to fight the "good fight" for them.

Examples? Sure there is profiting from oil companies and some others but I doubt MOST of white collar America is making money off gangstas, muslims and africans.

[scottws]

Well, I was only using white-collar America as an example, as well as the other groups.  There are plenty of other cultures other than white-collar Americans that tend not to be involved in war and violence.

Also, please note that I wasn't judging war itself or the causes of the various groups in my post.  I was merely listing various cultures that seem to involve themselves in wars more than others.

Also please note that I was not grouping by race at all.  I wasn't lumping all black Americans into a single group when I said "gangsta blacks."  Certainly much of black America does not fit into that group.  Likewise, I was including many blacks in the group "white-collar America."

[Cobra951]

I used to think war was preventable.  Naive youth, long gone.  The idea in my head depended on honest communication always being possible.  Seeing debates between republicans and democrats is enough to put that idea to rest.  Those people aren't communicating.  They're using words as weapons to gain as much power as possible.  Each side has no interest in learning from the other.  Now imagine when such debates are attempted between people who truly hate each other.  Impossibility squared.  Sooner or later, someone is going to bypass all the endlessly stalled diplomacy, and enforce their will by whatever means are necessary.

And I haven't even mentioned egomaniacs and fanatics.  Well, now I have.

[nickclone]

Well, I was only using white-collar America as an example, as well as the other groups.  There are plenty of other cultures other than white-collar Americans that tend not to be involved in war and violence.

Also, please note that I wasn't judging war itself or the causes of the various groups in my post.  I was merely listing various cultures that seem to involve themselves in wars more than others.

Also please note that I was not grouping by race at all.  I wasn't lumping all black Americans into a single group when I said "gangsta blacks."  Certainly much of black America does not fit into that group.  Likewise, I was including many blacks in the group "white-collar America."

Don't worry about it, I hope that you all can realize by now that I'm not easily offended or upset.

As for white corporates contributing to war: look at diamonds, pharmacies, oil companies

[idolminds]

War is evolutionary. From ant colonies to tribal humans to modern society (though less and less). War is simply a conflict involving 2 entities. Be it 2 individuals, 2 cultures, or 2 nations.

The evolutionary bent is: only the strongest survive. If you kill off the other group, your genes continue. Sure some individuals die and their genes don't, but this is about your societies gene pool. As long as your enemies don't continue, you've won.

We don't have wars for those reasons anymore (that seemed to have died out at our tribal levels...but then theres a few newer ones like Hitler). War just happens to be the best way to get your way. He with the biggest stick gets to make the rules.

[angrykeebler]

Again, its a minority and their profits can easily be prevented by the governments of countries that these white collar americans are abusing. They just don't. (Iraq being an exception)

[angrykeebler]

War is evolutionary.

"The minute God crapped out the third cave man, a conspiracy was hatched against one of them."

[nickclone]

"The minute God crapped out the third cave man, a conspiracy was hatched against one of them."

I could just be naive when it comes to the human race, but I feel we have more compassion than other mammals and insects.

[Quemaqua]

Cobra pretty much speaks for me on the issue.  Obviously I can't agree with any theories about evolution and war given that I don't believe in the scientific validity of evolution, but the end result is the same either way.  Where it came from won't help us stop it, which is mostly because nothing will help us stop it.  It is what it is and it's only going to get worse, especially (as Cobra mentioned at the end there) with all the psychotic fanatics running around the world these days.

[Ghandi]

I can't help but agree. This unavoidability (new word, I made it up) is what scares me when I hear about Iran or any other "rogue state" acquiring nuclear weapons. It didn't benefit either party in the cold war to use nukes- but what about a state that has nothing to lose?