Author Topic: Halo 3!  (Read 39282 times)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #120 on: Wednesday, September 26, 2007, 10:42:14 PM »
See, keebs is wise.  Mutually acknowledged hate is what brings true peace.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline K-man

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #121 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 01:24:33 AM »
I just "finished the fight" as it were.  Great ending.  Legendary's was even better.  helloooooo new series.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #122 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 12:54:37 PM »
Heres something I thought about with the Halo 3 launch.

Halo 3 Sales Smash Game Industry Records
Quote
Microsoft's Halo 3 racked up $170 million in sales on its first day of availability, making it the hottest selling title in video game history.

Microsoft said late Wednesday that the game's sales easily surpassed first day sales for Halo 2, which previously held the record. Halo 2 launched in 2004 and posted $125 million in sales on its first day.
I wonder, though, if it actually sold more copies than Halo 2. It made more money, but remember Halo 3 is $10 more for the basic release, then you have another $10 on top of that for the Limited Edition, and then a whopping $130 for the Legendary edition. I'd love to see the actual units sold figures.

Extra funny is how the article describes the game, including calling the Covenant a "shadowy terrorist group"...no mention that they are aliens or anything.

Offline MysterD

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Offline scottws

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #124 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 02:00:02 PM »
Heres something I thought about with the Halo 3 launch.

Halo 3 Sales Smash Game Industry Records  I wonder, though, if it actually sold more copies than Halo 2. It made more money, but remember Halo 3 is $10 more for the basic release, then you have another $10 on top of that for the Limited Edition, and then a whopping $130 for the Legendary edition. I'd love to see the actual units sold figures.

Extra funny is how the article describes the game, including calling the Covenant a "shadowy terrorist group"...no mention that they are aliens or anything.
I bet it sold less copies.  I bet there is a smaller installed base of 360's now than there was of Xbox's at the time of Halo 2's release.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #125 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 06:15:56 PM »
Quote
We think it's a beautiful game at Bungie. Folks who have complained about the graphics in the large part have said 'I don't like the way it looks' then they pick it up and they play it for half-an-hour and then four hours later they're still playing and that's the last time you hear them saying anything about the game.

Then an hour later they beat it and wonder where the hell their $60 went.



Sorry, I just had to.  Come on!  You know I had to.  Right?

 ... please don't hit me again.

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Offline beo

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #126 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 07:50:34 PM »
*hits que*

i've been playing it through on co-op and it's a lot of fun. no massive leap forward, but i think it's still the best multiplayer shooter on a console. i've never been the halo series biggest fan, completely ignoring the first, and then only playing the second because my housemate picked it up. i think the main reason i disliked it was because i came from pc fps games and was expecting something entirely different. after being forced into many multiplayer games of halo 2 though, i started learning the maps and weapons, and really got a taste for it.

so from someone who used to hate halo, i'd have to say that it's dissenters probably just don't get (or for some reason, like) what makes halo good. it's slower pace, weapon combos, grenades and melee attacks make for superb and hugely varied combat mechanics. it's not on a par with games such as bioshock in terms of atmosphere, graphics, or story - but the combat, the co-op, the vehicles and the varied multiplayer make it a hell of a lot of fun. it will never compete with pc fps's in my mind, but then i'm not looking to play a pc game when i play halo - i want something more arcadey, that i can play in my living room with friends.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #127 on: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 09:52:07 PM »
Quote
We think it's a beautiful game at Bungie. Folks who have complained about the graphics in the large part have said 'I don't like the way it looks' then they pick it up and they play it for half-an-hour and then four hours later they're still playing and that's the last time you hear them saying anything about the game.
Then an hour later they beat it and wonder where the hell their $60 went.

Haha!  That's exactly what I thought when I read that part, almost verbatim.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #128 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 09:59:18 AM »
Even more graphical troubles for Halo 3: Its not really 720p.

Quote
One item making the interwebs rounds this week was the scandalous revelation that Halo 3 runs at “640p” which isn’t even technically a resolution. However, the interweb detectives did notice that Halo 3’s vertical resolution, when captured from a frame buffer, is indeed 640 pixels. So what gives? Did we short change you 80 pixels?
Nice fake out. The difference between 720p and the resolution Halo 3 is running in isn't 80 pixels, its 184,320 pixels.
 
Quote
Naturally it’s more complicated than that. In fact, you could argue we gave you 1280 pixels of vertical resolution, since Halo 3 uses not one, but two frame buffers – both of which render at 1152x640 pixels. The reason we chose this slightly unorthodox resolution and this very complex use of two buffers is simple enough to see – lighting. We wanted to preserve as much dynamic range as possible – so we use one for the high dynamic range and one for the low dynamic range values. Both are combined to create the finished on screen image.
No, you can't argue that, how dumb do you think we are? Just because you decided to render the same frame twice to do your HDR doesn't mean you can say you're giving us 1280 pixels of vertical resolution. If the Wii renders a game to framebuffer twice, can we say the game is really running in HD?
 
Quote
This ability to display a full range of HDR, combined with our advanced lighting, material and postprocessing engine, gives our scenes, large and small, a compelling, convincing and ultimately “real” feeling, and at a steady and smooth frame rate, which in the end was far more important to us than the ability to display a few extra pixels. Making this decision simpler still is the fact that the 360 scales the “almost-720p” image effortlessly all the way up to 1080p if you so desire.
Which is a completely logical and understandable position to take. It was a trade off they chose: slightly lower resolution to be able to do HDR this way, and generally no one will be able to tell the difference. You don't need any other excuse.
 
Quote
In fact, if you do a comparison shot between the native 1152x640 image and the scaled 1280x720, it’s practically impossible to discern the difference.
Take an image, scale that image up a little bit, and you can't really tell the difference? No shit, Sherlock. The true test would be take the scaled image and compare it to the game rendered natively in 1280x720.

Quote
We would ignore it entirely were it not for the internet’s propensity for drama where none exists. In fact the reason we haven’t mentioned this before in weekly updates, is the simple fact that it would have distracted conversation away from more important aspects of the game, and given tinfoil hats some new gristle to chew on as they catalogued their toenail clippings.
Tinfoil hats and toenail clipping? The resolution *is* lower, whether you think it matters or not. They were correct and called you out on it. You confirmed their findings, so how are they suddenly a group of crazy people?

Honestly, I don't really care that the res is lower. I still run most of my games in 1024x768. But don't call people crazy or make shit up (its really 1280 vertical pixels lol math is fun!). You had a good reason to do what you did, don't make excuses, just be straight with people. You couldn't do HDR at full resolution with an acceptable framerate, so instead of dropping HDR you lowered the image size a bit until it worked. I generally lower my resolution before turning features off, too.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #129 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 10:52:15 AM »
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with admitting they had to lower the resolution to get the game to run smoothly and looked cool at the same time. Riddick did it on the Xbox and no one screamed bloody murder. They were honest with it and it was accepted.

The other thing Bungie's isn't exactly giving consistant excuses on the matter. This is kind of a nitpicky thing based on their choice of words, but it does show part of the problem.

From the new article:
Quote
This ability to display a full range of HDR, combined with our advanced lighting, material and postprocessing engine, gives our scenes, large and small, a compelling, convincing and ultimately “real” feeling, and at a steady and smooth frame rate, which in the end was far more important to us than the ability to display a few extra pixels.

From the article someone posted a few days ago.
Quote
It's completely immersive. The art direction is immaculate. It's not trying to be incredibly photo realistic or painting this grimy world. It's vibrant and it's fun and it's accessible.

Bungie could have simply said the path they chose made the motion feel more natural, but they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. The real point is that this isn't the first time Bungie's has done stuff like this. Anyone remember there were problems with the 720p with Halo 2. The box said it would be there, and it wasn't for some reason or another. You'd think with a game as big as Halo, problems like this would be addressed, especially given how much of an icon is it for the Xbox. Make it at 720p and show off what the system can do. Flat out. No tricks, no gimmicks. It's also kind of exemplified by the huge pop-in problem Halo 2 had that is something that should have been fought against tooth and nail when graphics are such a huge part of the game. It's just the sort of thing that helps prove that Bungie isn't exactly the AAA developer they've been propped up to be. Given the resources they have, they shouldn't be letting stuff like this through.

Offline scottws

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #130 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 10:57:32 AM »
Wait, wait, wait.  This thing is releasing almost a year later than Gears of War, is a first party game, and looks worse and isn't even HD?  What the hell is Bungie's problem?  Clearly they aren't that talented a developer, at least as far as the technical and art side of things go.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #131 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 11:36:12 AM »
This whole incident it worth it just for the people that harp on the Wii for not being HD now saying that having using lower resolutions is fine. "If it runs well and is fun, who cares about resolution?"

Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #132 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 12:24:09 PM »
I don't think anyone everyconsidered Bungee a AAA developer, except for maybe hardcore MS fans and, before that, mac users.

Idols point is quality.  IT's also really funny to see Wii fanboys point out the lower reolution and low quality graphics of Halo3 when previously, "graphics don't matter.  Gimicky mini-games do".

Offline scottws

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #133 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 12:36:14 PM »
Of course it matters, or people wouldn't talk about it.  Different people have different expectations and place higher valuations on different aspects of games, but of course it matters.

I am just really surprised how unimpressive of a technical feat Halo 3 is given the virtual warchest of a budget available to it and how late it is releasing on the 360.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #134 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 12:46:24 PM »
See, that's what I'm saying.  I don't care that much about graphics as long as it looks decent enough to not look like ass, and Halo 3 does that fine.  It isn't impressive, but it doesn't look shitty, either.  But the way it's been handled still confuses me just because of its position at the forefront.  I can understand certain things, but not the picture as a whole.

And what are you talking about, gpw?  Bungie has been considered top tier for years now.  Maybe not by the gaming elite or by industry analysts/obsessive weirdos, but by most people, and if you look at reviews you'd be hard pressed to argue that the press doesn't find them to be masters of design.  Which confuses me too, given my thoughts to the contrary... but I'd still say that they're highly respected.  Maybe not from a purely technical standpoint, which would make sense given that those hailing them as superamazingawesome are probably more casual (Halo reaches a much broader market than most franchises ever dream of), but either way, it seems odd.

I think what Sy said is really what it comes down to.  Nobody would care about any of this if they just came out and said it.  Even I wouldn't care, despite my general dislike of the franchise.  Hell, I'm not so inclined to say that I ever care *now*... I just dislike the fact that instead of being nice about it, they more or less come off sounding like total dicks any time they try to defend what they've done.  Tinfoil hats and toenail clippings?  Fuck you, asshole.  Your explanations are now worth nothing.

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Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #135 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 01:28:26 PM »
Do we expect anything less from Bungie and/or whomever ports their games to the PC? Seriously, though -- they were never really technical masters at their craft. Repeating Cut & Pasting levels (Halo: CE), not utilizing technology to the best of their ability (see Halo 2 PC), and some not-so-great storytelling, etc etc.

Halo 1 for the PC -- ran like shit upon release, regardless of your system.

Halo 2 for the PC -- ran only on Vista YET didn't really take advantage of Vista's DX10 capabilities.

Halo 3 for the X360 -- now, people feel shorted 80p. Worst of all is they didn't even tell anyone they were doing this, ahead of time! Why didn't they just tell the people???? At least w/ Riddick, Starbreeze let the world know ahead of time; wasn't really too big of a big deal. Can't do nothing about it, except accept it, ahead of time. At least you know. I'm sure, given how Halo has a big fanbase already, people wouldn't have cared too much, if they knew about this ahead of time. Now, as much as I like outstanding graphics, I'm not a graphics whore -- I think the most important thing is to get your game looking good while still running at a nice framerate. They took the best option they could come up w/ to jack the res' and pixel count down, which is fine and all -- but, they didn't bother to tell anyone ahead of time and they didn't even put that down on the game's actual box!!!

And now, w/ the truth exposed, Bungie decides to act like they're almighty, like their some game developing Gods w/ the "tinfoil hats" remark and whatnot b/c someone actually noticed something was off w/ the pixels and all. At least a company like say Obsidian has the balls to admit their problems; that they need to improve w/ the technical aspects of things -- namely w/ trying to get NWN2 running well, optimizing the game and to try and please the fans of the game -- and that they will continue to do so, as long as they are in charge of developing the game.

Quote from: Bungie
In fact, if you do a comparison shot between the native 1152x640 image and the scaled 1280x720, it’s practically impossible to discern the difference.
Not that impossible -- someone noticed it, didn't they? :P

Quote from: Bungie
We would ignore it entirely were it not for the internet’s propensity for drama where none exists. In fact the reason we haven’t mentioned this before in weekly updates, is the simple fact that it would have distracted conversation away from more important aspects of the game, and given tinfoil hats some new gristle to chew on as they catalogued their toenail clippings.
Translation: "Shit, we got caught and dunno' what to say, so we'll just insult those who caught us red-headed!!"

Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #136 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 01:37:58 PM »
See, that's what I'm saying.  I don't care that much about graphics as long as it looks decent enough to not look like ass, and Halo 3 does that fine.  It isn't impressive, but it doesn't look shitty, either.  But the way it's been handled still confuses me just because of its position at the forefront.  I can understand certain things, but not the picture as a whole.

And what are you talking about, gpw?  Bungie has been considered top tier for years now.  Maybe not by the gaming elite or by industry analysts/obsessive weirdos, but by most people, and if you look at reviews you'd be hard pressed to argue that the press doesn't find them to be masters of design.  Which confuses me too, given my thoughts to the contrary... but I'd still say that they're highly respected.  Maybe not from a purely technical standpoint, which would make sense given that those hailing them as superamazingawesome are probably more casual (Halo reaches a much broader market than most franchises ever dream of), but either way, it seems odd.

I think what Sy said is really what it comes down to.  Nobody would care about any of this if they just came out and said it.  Even I wouldn't care, despite my general dislike of the franchise.  Hell, I'm not so inclined to say that I ever care *now*... I just dislike the fact that instead of being nice about it, they more or less come off sounding like total dicks any time they try to defend what they've done.  Tinfoil hats and toenail clippings?  Fuck you, asshole.  Your explanations are now worth nothing.

That's a good point.  I should probably have said that I don't consider Bungiea top tier developer, and won't until they release a non-Halo game that's quality.

Offline sirean_syan

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #137 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 04:50:31 PM »
Mr D, you can hardly hold the PC releases of Halo against Bungie. They never handled the ports. While I suppose you can say something about them handing their baby over to be butchered, it's not really their fault it ran like crap on the PC.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #138 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 05:18:50 PM »
Mr D, you can hardly hold the PC releases of Halo against Bungie. They never handled the ports. While I suppose you can say something about them handing their baby over to be butchered, it's not really their fault it ran like crap on the PC.

Yeah, well they did put it in bad hands...

Shall we blame Gearbox then for Halo PC? :P
And "Hired Gun" of MGS for Halo 2 PC?


Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #139 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 06:31:46 PM »
I doubt they had any say in it at all.  MS likely pulls the strings as far as farming out ports goes.  They probably wanted Bungie to stick to Halo 2 when they ported the original game, hence the gave it to someone else... who fucked it up.  Actually, the same scenario happened to Infinite Interactive, the developers of Puzzle Quest.  They were creating Puzzle Quest, and D3, their publisher, farmed the ports out to VCS.  Well, at least the PSP port.  And VCS, who I've come to appreciate through Dead Head Fred and their support of that game via community channels, completely fucked the port to hell and back.  It's all but broken.  And even if they wanted to fix it, it again falls on D3 for the problem... because most likely VCS has no say in the matter either, and would only fix the Puzzle Quest PSP issues if D3 mandated that they do so.

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Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #140 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 07:08:36 PM »
I'd agree - blaming bad ports on the parent developer is a bit unnecessary.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #141 on: Saturday, September 29, 2007, 11:16:04 PM »
Wait, wait, wait.  This thing is releasing almost a year later than Gears of War, is a first party game, and looks worse and isn't even HD?  What the hell is Bungie's problem?  Clearly they aren't that talented a developer, at least as far as the technical and art side of things go.

I honestly do think they held back, and probably would have produced a far better looking game had there been pressure on them to do so. I say this because I remember at the time when Halo looked like a PC exclusive, and the tech demos were rolling out, the game looked gorgeous. In fact Halo came six months to a year after it was ready, purely because it was supposed to be a Xbox launch title.

I still remember how excited everyone was about this beautiful looking game ready to hit the PC. I think PC Gamer was doing massive coverage every issue. But then Microsoft happened.

There also has been this trend in franchises to recycle old engines for all they are worth. Apparently developers want to juice the fuck out of their old tech. Games like Freedom Force, Splinter Cell , Dungeons Siege etc all had impressive looks during their very first titles but then for a sequel or two the looks were extremely disappointing and were an obvious attempt to cash in with a minimum of design effort.

In fact Scott, a lot of people have pointed out that Halo 3 isn't more than 5 hours. You know what Halo 3 would be called if it were released on the PC? A standalone expansion.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #142 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 12:03:09 AM »
The draw for Halo seems mostly to be on the multiplayer front at this point, though.  Or at least most of it.  People dig the story, but I don't think they pay the 60 clams for it.  They pay ten for that, and fifty for the MP.

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Offline Pugnate

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #143 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 01:35:09 AM »
But the MP isn't that good is it? But right, I have a lot of casual gamer friends, who love the Halo MP.

I am interested to know. Are there are any major changes between Halo 2 and 3 in terms of multiplayer?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #144 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 02:35:26 AM »
It depends on who you ask.  Supposedly Halo rewards slower play with more thought, etc., but I find it slow as molasses and boring as fuck.  I also owned the crap out of everyone I played Halo 1 with, but in all fairness I never touched 2 and haven't cared to try 3.  I think it's just different... and if you like it's style, it's good.  I mean, it seems solid enough.  It just isn't to my taste.

No idea about changes from 2 to 3, though.

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Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #145 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 05:59:38 AM »
How many MP maps are there for H3?
And do they plan to release more via XBL?

Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #146 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 11:32:37 AM »
I honestly do think they held back, and probably would have produced a far better looking game had there been pressure on them to do so. I say this because I remember at the time when Halo looked like a PC exclusive, and the tech demos were rolling out, the game looked gorgeous. In fact Halo came six months to a year after it was ready, purely because it was supposed to be a Xbox launch title.

I still remember how excited everyone was about this beautiful looking game ready to hit the PC. I think PC Gamer was doing massive coverage every issue. But then Microsoft happened.
 


Totally different game.  The PC version was scrapped completely and the xbox version was built from the ground up with vastly improved graphics.  Honestly, I wonder how great the pc version would have turned out, considering Halo didn't have the deepest MP.  I mean, it's fun, and some people love it, but it's not the kind of mp which holds it's own as a standalone game on the PC.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #147 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 12:29:59 PM »
I didn't know the Xbox version was built from the ground up.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #148 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 03:49:07 PM »
Wait, wait, wait.  This thing is releasing almost a year later than Gears of War, is a first party game, and looks worse and isn't even HD?  What the hell is Bungie's problem?  Clearly they aren't that talented a developer, at least as far as the technical and art side of things go.

That's my take too.  Idol's post (#128) is terrific.  He hit the nail squarely after every quote.  The only thing that I would add, and which MysterD touched on, is that no matter how you slice it, it's dishonest--from both Bungie and Microsoft.  Bungie withheld the information which they were sure to know is controversial, and Microsoft allowed a game under its control to violate their own 720p-resolution promise to 360 buyers.  Bungie's explanation would have been satisfactory if it had appeared on their site ahead of time, with an abridged version on H3's game box.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #149 on: Sunday, September 30, 2007, 07:30:52 PM »
It is a lose-lose situation, regardless -- they wanted to meet the ship date, so they had to jack the res' down to get it running decent. Though, whether they told the world ahead of time or afterwards, they were still gonna lose on this one. But, they took the way, way, way, way much worse route -- they didn't let anyone know ahead of time and explain ahead of time why they did what they did. But worst of all, they didn't even put it on the box!

People would've been bullshit less, if they were told ahead of time that they were being short-changed some 80p b/c they would've at least had time to digest the matter and then the gamers probably still would go out and buy it b/c it's Halo 3; they'd get over it, eventually, I'd bet. Of course, this would need to be on the box, what res' the game supports and all...

But, no -- now, they consumer got the product in their hands and find out after its too late, the box isn't giving what's advertising on the box. Buyer beware written all over it. So, is Bungie gonna put forth on any new Halo 3 boxes what the real res' supported actually is? And is Bungie gonna patch this thing if they can fix the issue?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #150 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 07:19:22 AM »
So I had the chance to expose myself to a little extra Halo (I totally wore a trenchcoat), and I have some updated thoughts.

Firstly, this is a game that really, really doesn't screenshot well.  Nearly all screenshots look universally like ass, but the game is much better looking in motion.  Now that's at least moderately common, but I think it applies particularly to Halo 3.  Not because the game looks like the best thing ever in motion, but just because it looks really lousy in screens.  I think on the whole it's a pretty good looking game, actually, it just has several weak points that sort of stand out a bit and bring the rest of the visuals down a few pegs.  Environmentally, for instance, there are some jarring areas of geometrical simplicity that look pretty terrible, whereas there are also some really sweet-looking areas like K-Man said, that actually make you want to stop and look at them.  They should have just worked harder on hiding seams and stuff.  Models too suffer from this sort of design.  On one hand, they animate decently most of the time and have really awesome shadows (the game seems to be shadows really well), but on the other hand, sometimes the lighting seems to show them as more simple, which kind of makes you feel like when they do look really good you're just being fooled... and some of the animation falls below the generally higher standard.  Another area that I think looks much cooler than I first thought is explosions.  A lot of the crazy energy weapons and grenades and stuff have cool effects that look good, and some of the vehicles seem to spark and fume in pretty cool ways.

Anyway, I'd still say this is a better looking game than it's getting credit for on the whole, it just has a hard time hiding some of the weak points.  What's good looking is very nice, it's just those little things that get in the way a bit.

Also, whereas all elements of Halo 1 and 2 art design bored the living fuck out of me, some of the vehicles and stuff from 3 are actually awesome.  I didn't expect that so much, as I'd only seen a little bit of that outside the game... but yeah, these look really cool.  I hate the way when, say, a guy is riding one of the open-topped things and itgets flipped, and you can still see him sitting inside the model as though nothing were happening... even though his ass should be getting pummeled to death as he rolls his vehicle down the side of a hill... but that's about the only complaint.  Otherwise, a lot of the stuff looks really sweet, at least design-wise.  Vehicles also look a lot better in motion than in screenshots, because in motion the low texture res doesn't stand out so much, and the other elements of their design seem actually pretty nice.  This is the first Halo game that I think has done something good artistically, so that's definitely a plus over the previous 2 which I found utterly bland.  3 definitely adds some flavor.

Gameplay seems about the same just with much, much better environments in which to do it, which actually helps *a lot*.  That to me was the biggest problem with the first two by far.  Other than the art issues and level design issues I thought the games were fine, but I felt like those two areas just killed things utterly.  Given that Halo 3 manages to fix that stuff to a pretty good degree, I suspect the game to be a lot more fun to play on the whole.

The sacrifice is, of course, the super-super-super short campaign, which is really a shame, because with a little more meat to it, I think the game could actually have turned out awesome.  As it stands, I just can't fucking believe anybody could give it Editor's Choice and scores of 9+ based on the severely short length.  Again, if it did a few more amazingly creative things maybe it would be forgivable, but it doesn't.  If it had a little more beef to it and a couple more hours, you could forgive it for being a little short, but... it is what it is.

Anyway... from a die-hard Halo unfanboy, I can say that 3 definitely looks like a huge improvement over the other games in all ways.  It's just a shame that there isn't more to it and that they didn't try to shake up the formula a little more.  It definitely plays like Halo 2, which is fine because the level design is so much better, but it could have stood a few more improvements.

So yeah, take that for what you will.  I was able to see the game at somebody's house for a while, and so while obviously my thoughts aren't totally comprehensive, they're at least a lot more positive than they'd been before.  I still don't think Halo deserves the endless popularity, and I never will, but if the other 2 games had the apparent quality of 3, I don't think anyone would care because they'd be having fun playing along with everyone else.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline scottws

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #151 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 09:15:36 AM »
Your review tempted me to buy the game, but I would only be interested in the single player since I don't feel like paying for Live again.  And I'm not going to buy it for a 5 hr campaign.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #152 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 09:45:11 AM »
Quote from: Que
Gameplay seems about the same just with much, much better environments in which to do it, which actually helps *a lot*.  That to me was the biggest problem with the first two by far.
Good to hear.

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Other than the art issues and level design issues I thought the games were fine, but I felt like those two areas just killed things utterly.  Given that Halo 3 manages to fix that stuff to a pretty good degree, I suspect the game to be a lot more fun to play on the whole.
Cool.

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The sacrifice is, of course, the super-super-super short campaign, which is really a shame, because with a little more meat to it, I think the game could actually have turned out awesome.
Man, that's a damn shame...

Quote from: Que
As it stands, I just can't fucking believe anybody could give it Editor's Choice and scores of 9+ based on the severely short length.  Again, if it did a few more amazingly creative things maybe it would be forgivable, but it doesn't.  If it had a little more beef to it and a couple more hours, you could forgive it for being a little short, but... it is what it is.
Bah!

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Anyway... from a die-hard Halo unfanboy, I can say that 3 definitely looks like a huge improvement over the other games in all ways.  It's just a shame that there isn't more to it and that they didn't try to shake up the formula a little more.
Bummer about the length...

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It definitely plays like Halo 2, which is fine because the level design is so much better, but it could have stood a few more improvements.
That's good that the design's improved w/ each iteration of Halo.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #153 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 04:06:31 PM »
The sacrifice is, of course, the super-super-super short campaign, which is really a shame, because with a little more meat to it, I think the game could actually have turned out awesome.  As it stands, I just can't fucking believe anybody could give it Editor's Choice and scores of 9+ based on the severely short length.  Again, if it did a few more amazingly creative things maybe it would be forgivable, but it doesn't.  If it had a little more beef to it and a couple more hours, you could forgive it for being a little short, but... it is what it is.

I've been resisting chiming in here because without playing he game, gut feelings have no foundation.  Since you mentioned it, and I trust you, I'll at least be able to say that your comments don't surprise me at all.  I cannot believe that on the heels of an astounding game like Bioshock, out comes the 3rd iteration of an old game, virtually unchanged except for looks, and trumps it on Gamespot.  The ridiculously short campaign alone should have knocked off more than half a point.  What's going on, really?  Again, without playing it, and without ever giving a damn about what most people want out of Halo (multiplayer) these feelings are strictly personal.  They don't hold much water in any other context.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #154 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 04:27:30 PM »
I honestly think it's a bad idea to score based on the length of a game at all.  By all means, it should be mentioned, but I don't really think it should change the score.  For one thing, MP is a huge component of the game and I'd imagine the majority of people buying it are mostly buying it for the multi-player. The other reason I have this point of view is because a lot of the better games I've played are pretty damn short. REZ, Panzer Dragoon Saga, and a few others come to mind.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #155 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 04:57:49 PM »
If you reach the end credits and your reaction is "That was AWESOME!" then its ok to be short. If you get there and its "WTF, thats it?!" then it should probably be docked. Kind of a hard thing to quantify, with lots of factors involved.

A game should leave you wanting more, not feeling like you should have gotten more.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #156 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 05:11:33 PM »
Oh, I agree.  I think the thing is that it's all completely opinionated.  I mean they mention the single player is short, and that's all I really need to read, but for a lot of people it doesn't matter either way, they're buying it for the MP. By all means mention it in the review, but if you're going to start docking points based on length it gets into questionable territory. 


Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #157 on: Monday, October 01, 2007, 05:19:52 PM »
I've been resisting chiming in here because without playing he game, gut feelings have no foundation.  Since you mentioned it, and I trust you, I'll at least be able to say that your comments don't surprise me at all.  I cannot believe that on the heels of an astounding game like Bioshock, out comes the 3rd iteration of an old game, virtually unchanged except for looks, and trumps it on Gamespot.  The ridiculously short campaign alone should have knocked off more than half a point.  What's going on, really?  Again, without playing it, and without ever giving a damn about what most people want out of Halo (multiplayer) these feelings are strictly personal.  They don't hold much water in any other context.

This makes me look at what Unreal did -- split the SP and MP components, into separate games.

The MP games, Unreal Tournament, are just stuffed w/ stuff galore.

Though, Unreal 2's SP was only around 10 hours, according to most....You'd think w/ them splitting the game, it'd be at least 15 hours or so. I guess that's why they added the XMP component, later to it for free download...heh!

Hell, I need to eventually get Unreal Anthology (when it I can find it cheap), since the only Unreal game I own is the original Unreal. I don't own the original expansion, either...

What am I getting at? Well, Maybe Halo should've split the SP and MP into two separate but much bigger games??? What do y'all think...?


Offline MysterD

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #158 on: Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 08:17:34 AM »
Well, well -- rumor has it, Bungie might be leaving Microsoft, to become an Indie Studio again...
...And MS will retain the Halo IP.


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Bungie and MS: What the Hell is Going On?
Random blogger causes massive net meltdown. Microsoft avoids answers.
By Patrick Klepek, 10/01/2007

Earlier today, 8Bit Joystick caused a simultaneous WTF across the Internet when they claimed to have a source with information on the latest rumblings between Bungie Studios and Microsoft. The source -- who doesn't work at Bungie, but "knows" someone that does -- alleges Microsoft has agreed to allow Bungie become an independent studio again. Expectedly, Microsoft would retain the rights to the Halo IP, not unlike what happened with Bizarre Creations and the Project Gotham Racing IP. In that case, however, Microsoft didn't own Bizarre.

The source goes onto claim the split stems from increased friction between the developer and publisher as they both raced to get Halo 3 out the door. While shocking that Microsoft would knowingly release another company producing high-profile first-party games, the reaction by Microsoft and Bungie today leads credence to the idea there may be some truth to what's going on behind the scenes.

Given the source also claimed NDAs expired today, everyone should be ready to talk, right? Well, not so much.

1UP first got in touch with Bungie, who pointed us in the direction of Edelman, Microsoft's (and thus Bungie's, as they are currently a Microsoft-owned studio) PR outlet. We ended up contacting several Microsoft representatives at Edelman for comment, receiving two slightly differing responses.

    "To your question, there's been no such announcement. We can't comment further." -- Microsoft representative #1

    "There's been no such announcement. We continue to celebrate the tremendous success of the global phenomenon that is Halo 3." -- Microsoft representative #2

Canned PR responses differ company to company. Representative #1's "we can't comment further" is telling, considering the responses share some identical phrasing, making the official PR line within Microsoft "there's been no such announcement." When a PR company expects requests for comment from a number of outlets about the same piece of news, there is usually a canned response -- "there's been no such announcement" is Microsoft's canned response for today. "We can't comment further" suggests there actually is something more they simply can't talk about yet.

Elsewhere is activity on the Bungie.net and NeoGAF forums, popular hangouts for notable Bungie public figures Frank O'Connor and Luke Smith. Both are usually quick on the posting gun -- snarky or otherwise -- yet while both are actively online (as can be evidenced by NeoGAF's "currently active users" section at the bottom of the board), neither are responding to the quickly exploding thread of virtual shock and awe.

Hmm.

If wheels are churning, it would make sense Bungie's keeping their mouths shut until official word hits, supposedly expired NDAs or not. No reason to spoil the current love fest, especially when they're all continuing "to celebrate the tremendous success of the global phenomenon that is Halo 3." Right?

We'll keep digging. Stay tuned.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Halo 3!
« Reply #159 on: Tuesday, October 02, 2007, 10:19:53 AM »
That would be interesting if true.

Would let us see what someone else could do with the Halo franchise, and would also allow us to to look at Bungie's skills outside of Halo.