Topic: Eternal Sonata for 360 - closest thing to 3D anime yet. (56k warning)

[Quemaqua]

GSpot has the scoop on the game itself.

Check out these shots.  I'm pretty impressed how far the whole cel shading thing has come.  This one is really subtle, but it's amazing how much these shots look like anime cels.






EDIT - And, of course, you can't fucking tell *at all* what I'm talking about because of the stupid forum image resize, so... I guess go check out the shots on GSpot.  These look sad.

[sirean_syan]

I think what sells it is seeing the game in motion. It's worth watching some of the videos over at Gamespot.

Having seen them, I can't say I'm fond of two things. The voices (I think it's got the tradition of bad English voice acting for Anime) and the battle system seems a little clumsy. That could have just been the person playing, though.

[Pugnate]

They look so cute!

[Quemaqua]

All the vids I saw were in Japanese, so... as always, I hope that's included as a voice option.  Not common to see that, I guess, but sometimes we get lucky.

Anyway, at the very least Julia might like to take a stab at it.  The only thing on my menu in the near future cute-anime-game-wise is Dawn of Mana.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Looks interesting.  I've been playing Rogue Galaxy lately and they have a little bit similar style (this game looks a little more cutesy though), kinda close to Appleseed in some respects, and it looks really cool.

[Cobra951]

If you right click the images, and save them locally, you get what I assume is the original size (1280x720 = 720p).  The jaggies go bye-bye.  Looks mighty nice.  I'll have to check out the vids.

[wizall]

Looks interesting.  I've been playing Rogue Galaxy lately and they have a little bit similar style (this game looks a little more cutesy though), kinda close to Appleseed in some respects, and it looks really cool.

You enjoying that?  I bought the X360 about the time Rogue Galaxy came out, so I forgot about it.  I'm still interested, though.

[TheOtherBelmont]

You enjoying that?  I bought the X360 about the time Rogue Galaxy came out, so I forgot about it.  I'm still interested, though.

Yes, its loads of fun, I'm about 41 hours in and there is lots of stuff to do that doesn't feel tacked on, good music, interesting characters and story and a fairly deep leveling system (you can combine weapons to make other weapons, you have a factory you can use to make items off of blueprints, etc).  It is definitely worth getting if you enjoy a good sci-fi RPG.  The Gamespot review is fairly dead on to what it has to offer and it has space pirates to boot!

[Quemaqua]

That one seemed pretty sweet.  If I had more time I'd totally give it a shot.

[Ghandi]

If you right click the images, and save them locally, you get what I assume is the original size (1280x720 = 720p).  The jaggies go bye-bye.  Looks mighty nice.  I'll have to check out the vids.

Just right-click and view image. Works on Firefox.

[Cobra951]

Just right-click and view image. Works on Firefox.

Yes it does.  Thanks!  Even easier.

[Quemaqua]

Well, the verdict is in: the game is great.

I'll give you a synopsis in case you don't want to watch the IGN or GSpot video reviews (both of which are quite good).

The game is as stunning as it looks for as long as it lasts, and the presentation is top notch.  This comes at a cost, however, because the camera is entirely fixed through the entire experience, which means you can't run around everywhere you want to explore, can't rotate the camera to get a better look at something, etc., and this is due in large part to a significant quantity of 2D art.  Most people aren't at all bothered by it because of just how much detail there is, however.  The music is also fantastic (which I can verify as I got a copy of the soundtrack) and the musical themes are heavily prevalent.

The story is thick and rich, though it's a little slow and is really built on details, not sweeping strokes.  The main sway of the story may be a little bland in some ways, but the character interaction and the pure emotional core of the storytelling is what sets it apart and makes it fantastic.  Most people seem quite satisfied in its handling of darker topics and social issues, though the game is apparently somewhat blunt at times, beating you over the head a little with moral lessons and the like.

MysterD will hate this game because it's almost 100% linear.  There's almost no sidequesting with the exception of a couple hidden dungeons and some futzing with items, and that's it.  Zero filler, all story, go from point A to point B.  Fortunately, this isn't a problem for most people because you're never left wondering what to do, you're never forced to grind, etc. etc., so in theory every hour you spend with the game should be a very rich one, and not something that feels artificial to extend the length of the game.

Though maybe there should have been a little of that, because the game is extremely short for a JRPG, clocking in at around 30 hours for those taking their time to enjoy it.  Most people seem to be playing it multiple times, though, thanks to a New Game + mode with increased difficulty and extra scenes/bonuses, and there have actually been surprisingly few complaints about the length.

The battle system works as advertised, and most people love it.  It combines action-esque elements in that you can control each character for several seconds during their turn, and can actively block and counterattack with timed button presses, but each character still takes a turn.  Other games have done similar things (Valkyrie Profile, et al.), but the unique twists here are enough to keep combat lively and fresh through the whole game, especially since the system adds new layers of difficulty and complexity as your characters level up and your overall party level increases.

I'm picking it up tomorrow and will give more details when I start to play, but it looks like this is a great little gem of a game that suffers from brevity but not a whole lot else of note.  Can't wait to give it a try!

EDIT - Forgot to note that the game features both English voiceovers and the original Japanese, though supposedly the English isn't too bad (roughly on par with most other average JRPGs, or maybe a little better), and there's also quite a bit of actual history thrown in during brief interludes that teach you a little about the actual person of Chopin and a bit about his music.  Some find this interrupts the pace of the story a bit, but nobody seems to be complaining that this is "edutainment" or that it isn't interesting.  Most seem to enjoy it (personally, I'm looking forward to it).

[idolminds]

I like how you bolded certain sections of your impressions.

[iPPi]

I've become somewhat interested in this game.  But unfortunately, with so many big releases happening in the coming months and so little time, I doubt I will ever get to play this game.

[scottws]

An alternative to jaggy, resized pics is posting a link to the pictures instead of the pictures themselves.

[Quemaqua]

Well idol, those weren't my impressions, just sort of the vibe that's been going around.  However, I've put about 4 hours into this now, and so I'll continue putting things in bold for ease of reading.

So the game is *amazing*.  But on the other hand, it's also still an RPG that isn't likely to change anybody's mind about RPGs, unless the only thing holding them back from RPGs before was length or simply derivative design.  Given that this one is short, that might make it a viable option to some folks who would otherwise stay away, and the design of the thing is so great that some may feel it has enough heart to sit through even though they don't find the RPG game underneath it terribly compelling.

Anyway, it's a fun RPG.  The battle system is absolutely great when you're taking part in a challenging fight, but thus far I've had maybe 2 or 3 of those, and everything else has been cakewalk city.  I think this is strictly because the opening stuff is very easy, as most reviews have stated the game gets quite difficult by the end.  That's okay by me, because the combat is really pretty damned fun mechanically when things aren't dying in two hits, and the interplay between characters is really nice.  It seems like it's definitely a winner.  Similar things have been done before, but this combo is both functional and elegant.  So as long as the challenge starts to ramp up soon, I'll be happy.  Boss fights have been great fun.

Also, the artistry here is un-frickin'-believable.  The game just looks phenomenal.  You'll hear people say that and everything, and then you'll look at a screen here or there... maybe part of a forest, or a town... and just think "What gives?  Sure, it's pretty, but it doesn't seem like *that* big of a deal"... and then you'll run across a particular area that just takes buckets of charm and atmosphere and artistry and dumps them on your head.  And then you'll see a cutscene so well executed that it just blows your mind even though the actual scene was fairly mundane.  So it really does a good job of surprising you with just how unbelievably beautiful it can be, instead of feeling like it's just shoving pretty sights into your eye sockets over and over again.  That is to say, you don't feel like the game is showing off just for the sake of doing it.  It always looks great, but when it really chooses to knock your socks off, it will.  Also, the 2nd town has the prettiest sewers you've ever seen in your life.  The poor people who live there are supposed to be poor and unfortunate, but I was about ready to pack my bags and move just after seeing the first couple corridors.

The character designs are great, but they animate beautifully and just look perfect.  They're extremely expressive, especially for what are essentially just 3D anime characters.  Anime designs have a tendency to lose heart and soul just because they borrow too heavily from standard archetypes (see: Blue Dragon, with the worst character designs I have EVER SEEN, EVER), but even though some of the characters here are a bit archetypical, the way they're brought to life in both design, sound, and animation is absolutely stunning.  This is a breath of fresh air in a design area where JRPGs have grown stale beyond belief.

The audio doesn't slouch either.  I'm listening to the Japanese voiceovers, and these are wonderfully executed.  It's hard for English-speakers to tell the difference between good and bad at times, but if you've heard enough spoken Japanese to appreciate the difference, you will.  The details come alive in the dialogue.  I haven't really listened to the English yet, but the little bit that I heard seemed competent.  I didn't get the impression it would be too terribly distracting to have it on, though I have no doubt that the Japanese voices are far superior.  But I may run through the game again with the English voices simply because English feels like a more natural language to accompany the game given the game's heavily European influence.

The story seems to be shaping up very well, and the way everything ties into it is beautiful.  I'll get more into that in the historical information segment below.  Also, as I said, I can see people who don't even like the game still suffering through the game part just because there's *so much* story and *so much* dialogue.  I can't speak of this too much given my early status in the game, but it seems like there's a lot more here than you might give a 30 hour game credit for.

Lastly, I'll mention the pieces of historical information that the game throws in between chapters.  I'd like to take Kevin Van Ord's fucking face and smash it with a frying pan, because he complained that he felt these, while nice, just slowed down the pace of the story, and I disagree with him as much here as I did with his entire review of Dawn of Mana.  The historical pieces, while full of information, have (thus far) directly corresponded to elements of the gameworld, as though the developers were trying to show you *why* they felt a certain element of Chopin's dreamworld is the way it is, that they put more thought into it.  The first two scenes show you *why* the terminally-ill in Chopin's dream are able to use magic, shows you *why* it seems as though there is governmental turmoil and the threat of revolution.  It's quite brilliant, really, and these scenes also feature pictures of real-world locales relating to the information being delivered, and these pictures and the information relate directly to whatever particular Chopin piece is being played in the background.  I've never seen anything tie itself into a brilliantly creative story as I have these.  It's not only making you care about the facts as they relate to the fictional story, it's also giving you a little history, a little art appreciation by explaining where the musical pieces came from, and fitting it snugly into a game that seems to embrace the concept completely.  So far these have been brilliant, and the game feels even more complete and dedicated to its material because of them.  I sincerely hope the rest are as good and relevant as the first two have been.

So yeah, this is well worth checking out if you feel like the subject matter and game concept appeal to you.  I think it's rare that pure RPGs ever come even close to approaching art, but this game is a creative feat in many areas and it's just... wonderful to see that in an RPG.  It feels like a creative evolution even if the gameplay mechanics aren't terribly unusual.  We need more games like this.

[Cobra951]

Lastly, I'll mention the pieces of historical information that the game throws in between chapters.  I'd like to take Kevin Van Ord's fucking face and smash it with a frying pan, because he complained that he felt these, while nice, just slowed down the pace of the story, and I disagree with him as much here as I did with his entire review of Dawn of Mana.  The historical pieces, while full of information, have (thus far) directly corresponded to elements of the gameworld, as though the developers were trying to show you *why* they felt a certain element of Chopin's dreamworld is the way it is, that they put more thought into it . . .

I want to thank you for all the quality time you devoted to communicating your experience with the game so far.  You've given me much to think about here.  In particular, I was wondering about the reportedly jarring historical passages, and now you've set the record straight on that.  I may pick this up in the next few days, even if I'm not the biggest fan of console RPGs.

Edit:  Oh, very pretty.  I downloaded the demo and spent about 40 minutes in it.  Eventually, I got my ass handed to me by a big pumpkin.  I couldn't figure out any way to heal with magic outside of battles; and within battles, I was too busy trying to figure out the fighting and defense.  Once I get some experience, I think I'm going to like the battle system.  It gives me a constant good feeling that I'm making things happen, instead of just rolling dice.

The world is gorgeous, and painfully colorful.  While fully 3D, it reminds me a great deal of the PSX Legend of Mana game.  Your range of motion is limited, and the camera position is strictly determined by where you are.  It seems to me that they could have allowed limited axis rotation, but it's fine the way it is.  The characters themselves are just about perfect.  3D anime is a good way to describe them.  One bummer is that they couldn't manage a full frame rate.  30 fps has that unmistakable jittery animation on scenery scrolling, which is most of what you see when you move in this game.  20 fps might have been better, producing less eye strain.  While I haven't heard much yet in the way of music, the sound is exactly what it should be.  I wish I could try out musical performance, but I have no "pieces" in this demo, and I don't think there's a way to get them.

I think I'm sold.

[MysterD]

MysterD will hate this game because it's almost 100% linear.  There's almost no sidequesting with the exception of a couple hidden dungeons and some futzing with items, and that's it.  Zero filler, all story, go from point A to point B.  Fortunately, this isn't a problem for most people because you're never left wondering what to do, you're never forced to grind, etc. etc., so in theory every hour you spend with the game should be a very rich one, and not something that feels artificial to extend the length of the game.

Especially since Role-Playing Games should be about the player actually "playing the role" (hence the genre-title of "role-playing game") to make choices/decisions throughout the course of the game to affect the outcome of the game, I think -- yes, I definitely do prefer RPG's w/ the whole format of having a decent amount of both Main Quests and Side Quests to them -- yes, even if these quests are like Diablo 2 and Titan Quest, having only ONE resulting path to all of the Quests. I'd rather them have multiple results to quests, though -- I do like to have some "option" and "choice" to what I can do (and not do) in a RPG.

Though, linear RPG's, as linear as some might be and can be -- they often do have that other quality of RPG's; the building aspects of the game -- building experience to build up skills, weapons, abilities, etc etc. And usually, JRPG's are huge on that. Actually, their games are often very strategic -- more like Strategy-RPG's than anything else.

Though maybe there should have been a little of that, because the game is extremely short for a JRPG, clocking in at around 30 hours for those taking their time to enjoy it.  Most people seem to be playing it multiple times, though, thanks to a New Game + mode with increased difficulty and extra scenes/bonuses, and there have actually been surprisingly few complaints about the length.

Regardless of what kind of game it is, JRPG or not, approximately 25-30 hours is a decent total length for one actual run-through of the game.

These days, it seems like games in general, are aiming more towards the 8-20 hour length -- regardless of genre. Though, for RPG's, seems like a 20 hour minimum for the main quest is the norm; and since many games do side quests, chuck in another 10 hours extra at the very least for those side quests. Hell, it's not like Fable: TLC was long for its main quests and side quests, you know. Anywhere from  around 15-20 hours, you're gonna be done w/ the questing stuff. Though, you could give it another run-through and try to get the other ending...

I watched GameSpot's review on this game -- wow, the artwork is absolutely gorgeous. You'd think it was an anime cartoon or something. Beautiful looking game -- especially in motion.

And kudos for them letting the player be able to pick English or Japanese audio options. B/c really, a lot of foreign games when brought to the US, something is lost when the "Dubbing into the English language" aspect is done -- usually, it's the emotion from the voice-acting. Especially since often for a foreign game, the voice-actors that a American publisher hires aren't expensive and often (worst of all) ain't too good, either -- which is a damn shame.

[Quemaqua]

I'm clocking in a few more hours tonight, so I'll try to give updated impressions when I'm done with my session.  That should put me about a quarter of the way in or something.  Since last post it's been roughly more of the same, though the difficulty in the combat has improved, not to mention the number of attack methods.  It isn't as though there are a billion ways to approach situations, but it's a nice immediate system that forces short-term tactics but doesn't ask you to go very far beyond that.  The immediacy of it all is kind of nice, because it emphasis the action-oriented feel of the combat, which makes it feel even less turn based than it would otherwise.

What I mean by attack methods is that the different characters really feel different, and this is really nice.  You can't choose how they level up, that's all done automatically, but they're all very different so they remain really fun to use.  Alegretto, for instance, is the in-your-face warrior type.  Does lots of sword combat and has special attacks related to his sword.  Chopin himself also works up close, but his specials seem to vary.  He starts with a special move that heals and then has some other options that open up, one of which attacks an enemy up front but also shoots out a shockwave that will hit enemies positioned behind him.  Beat is a long range kid who uses guns to attack, but while he's a bit weak, his special moves are absolutely devastating when charged up.  And Viola, a new character we just ran across, uses a bow, and this is physically aimed at enemies during her turn - headshots equal *massive* damage, but she doesn't fire fast enough to build up Echoes (basically a combo meter your characters charge up into a communal pool which can be used to enrich any special command, offensive or defensive).

Actually, that's part of what makes combat interesting.  There's no magic points or anything, i.e. you can use special moves over and over again all you want.  But they don't do nearly as much damage or healing or whatever unless you've built up Echoes by wailing on enemies, and once you use a special move, all your Echoes drain and you're back to zero, which means you need to think about how and when you use your special attacks beyond just saving up a stockpile of magic points for a rainy day.  It's pretty cool.

Anyway, I probably won't have much more to say beyond what I've said unless something changes after my session tonight.  So I'll try to firm up my impressions, but what I've said already probably more or less stands.

EDIT - I gave it a little bit more tonight, and I can say that if you don't like JRPGs, this probably won't change your mind.  All the usual stuff is there in varying capacities, and while it doesn't drag in some ways (no random battles!, not much need for active level grinding), it can a little bit in others (sometimes you're so anxious for another story scene that the prospect of having to kill stuff seems almost lame).  But I didn't get quite as much time in as I wanted due to getting stuck on something, so I'll have to try a little more again tomorrow night.

[MysterD]

Lastly, I'll mention the pieces of historical information that the game throws in between chapters.  I'd like to take Kevin Van Ord's fucking face and smash it with a frying pan, because he complained that he felt these, while nice, just slowed down the pace of the story, and I disagree with him as much here as I did with his entire review of Dawn of Mana.  The historical pieces, while full of information, have (thus far) directly corresponded to elements of the gameworld, as though the developers were trying to show you *why* they felt a certain element of Chopin's dreamworld is the way it is, that they put more thought into it.  The first two scenes show you *why* the terminally-ill in Chopin's dream are able to use magic, shows you *why* it seems as though there is governmental turmoil and the threat of revolution.  It's quite brilliant, really, and these scenes also feature pictures of real-world locales relating to the information being delivered, and these pictures and the information relate directly to whatever particular Chopin piece is being played in the background.  I've never seen anything tie itself into a brilliantly creative story as I have these.  It's not only making you care about the facts as they relate to the fictional story, it's also giving you a little history, a little art appreciation by explaining where the musical pieces came from, and fitting it snugly into a game that seems to embrace the concept completely.  So far these have been brilliant, and the game feels even more complete and dedicated to its material because of them.  I sincerely hope the rest are as good and relevant as the first two have been.

Can these historical sequences be skipped by hitting START on the controller or some button???
Or can you select in the game options to skip all of these sequences???

If you can actually skip them, then the G-Spot reviewer who didn't like those sequences has really NO reason to be complaining about those w/out even mentioning if the player can or cannot skip these, as far as I'm concerned...

[Quemaqua]

I would assume that you could skip them like any other cutscene.  Most cutscenes can be skipped by pressing start and then selecting the option to skip.

[MysterD]

I would assume that you could skip them like any other cutscene.  Most cutscenes can be skipped by pressing start and then selecting the option to skip.

That's good, if it's there. Probably is, I bet.

If scenes a reviewer don't like can be skipped, the reviewer really should've noted that he don't like the scenes, but it can be skipped...So, it'd really be a non-issue, if that's the case.

[Pugnate]

...what?

[Cobra951]

I got through the first chapter of the game last night.  So far, I love the game.  The negatives from CRPGs are here in their full glory, my biggest pain with them being the long storytelling times where you can do nothing but sit back and watch.  If you want to save and go to sleep, you're SOL.  The constant hopping around between character groups does not let the player identify with any one of them.  The premise of these always strikes me as a passive story interrupted by interactive sequences, where you possess a character's body until the godly dungeon master decides you have to hop out of it and let the character develop the story in its immutable direction.  Allowing for the known minuses, I think it's a winner thus far.  As Que already mentioned, it's absolutely gorgeous.  The battle system is terrific.  I can't remember any turn-based RPG feeling this immediate since Super Mario RPG.  ES is even better in that sense.  The game world, and how moving within it is handled, reminds me a great deal of Legend of Mana on the PSX.  The music is almost as lovely as that old game's.

I've sat through a couple of what I guess I'll call interludes.  These hop out of the fantasy world entirely, and depict static scenes from locales where presumably Chopin lived some of his life.  These snapshots are accompanied by silent subtitles telling the story, while the piece of music relevant to the historical moment plays in the background.  I have mixed feelings about these.  For one thing, the photographs used are of significantly lower quality than the game's graphics.  They are quite grainy and the colors seem artificial, at least on my TV.  For another, the sudden hop out of the game is downright jarring, almost feeling like a commercial, or some well-meaning historian interrupting the leisure activities to educate the participants.  Que is right in that they relate directly to the events at hand in the game.  Even so, they feel out of place to me.  If I could skip them, or postpone going through them to a time of my choosing, they would be a good bonus.  The quality of the musical recording is excellent, however, and I imagine the photographs would look a lot better at 480p.

I'm playing with the English voiceovers.  These are reasonably good.  I can't think of anything else to commit to words right now.  I have a lot of game to get through still, before I can form worthwhile opinions.  I'll be getting back to it later tonight.

[Quemaqua]

Glad you're enjoying it so far.  I know it was a bit of a risk for you and would hate to see you have a lousy time.

Still enjoying it myself.  I've noticed a couple of graphical corner-cuts that have bothered me somewhat in that they remind me of earlier days when 3D RPGs were still finding their footing, but the game continues to look amazing.  It's just because of how amazing everything looks that the occasional spot which isn't quite as bright stands out more.

As for the historical sequences, I guess maybe it's just because I love historical context and anything factual that they don't jar me at all.  I felt like they were really smoothly integrated.  I guess maybe it's just taste there.  The pictures looked pretty good on my screen, but I can't say in any official capacity because the game forces letterbox on non-WS displays, so my square LCD doesn't quite cut the mustard there.  The pictures looked fine, but you'd certainly notice details better than I would on my tiny little screen.

[Cobra951]

OK, so I'm pretty far into the game.  I recently got to party level 4.  It hasn't changed my combat strategy at all, if you can call it that.  Run to target, button-mash 'A' until time runs out, press 'X'.  Nothing else works anywhere near as well.  I routinely do 40,000 to 80,000 damage in a single attack this way, assuming the character I'm using has a special attack which includes multiple hits.  Chaining hits is absolutely everything.  There seem to be no exceptions.  Even Viola, the archer, does best by far using the bow as a club.  Given the constant repetition of enemies and your characters' chitchat, it gets very tedious.

Add to this the general problems with JRPGs*, and I can't say that this is a great game.  It's definitely a very pretty one.  I'm still playing it, and the hours do go by unnoticed, so I can't claim that I haven't gotten my money's worth either.  I did expect better, though.

* Casual participation in a passive story; extremely long sequences where all you can do is watch (worst yet: 5-minute boss fight followed by 25 minutes of popcorn fare); marginally functional environments, complete with invisible walls, furniture that keeps you 6 feet away, and 4-foot wide ramps of ice that you cannot cross over; and of course, the fixed camera, which has you or your surroundings obscured from view too often--just as in the old days of fixed-perspective 2D.

[Quemaqua]

The camera is an admitted problem, but everything else is basically typical of all JRPGs in general.  Well, not all... things have really started changing recently, so I suppose some of that can be viewed as anachronism to a degree, but yeah... that's still sort of the way of it.  Generally you have to *want* lots of cutscenes and story to get into this kinda' stuff.  If you just want to be able to play and play and feel in control at all times, this game is the furthest thing from what you could possibly want.  Last I heard, the ending was *literally* 45 minutes long.

I haven't played too much of it recently.  Julia's been hacking away at it and she absolutely loves it, though at the stage she's at now she's finding it pretty difficult.  But she hasn't fully mastered the blocking yet (she was much better at it in Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, which is ironic because I find it easy in ES but was having trouble with it in Mario).  Anyway, she's been totally addicted.  I myself love the world, characters, story, graphics, music... basically everything, but the gameplay, while fun, is just a bit too focused.  A little too much when you're actually fighting, but a little too haphazard in terms of how long a stretch you go without it, or doing it in the same area, or against the same enemies, or whatever.  That can make it drag a bit.  I disagree with your combat strategy to some degree, though.  Headshots with Viola are infinitely more effective, at least where I'm at in the game, and it doesn't pay to always use a special move at the end of a string of normal hits.  If you save it up further, you can use the echoes more to your advantage, particularly when healing.  Of course, I'm going through the game mostly avoiding combat, so that could be why I'm using different methods.  I'm not powerleveling by any stretch of the imagination.

[Cobra951]

I'm not sure where you're at.  My experience so far is that there is no need to waste character moves on healing.  I seldom ever take a hit except in boss fights, and I have so many heal-all items that they seldom pose a problem.  Run-of-the-mill wandering enemy duos and trios don't often get a chance to attack me at all.  Coming up behind them works the majority of the time, and single-turn shutouts work most of the rest.  The real strategy seems to be in choosing the characters, their positions, and their special attacks.  At this point, the weaker characters level up without using them in battle, which has made things even easier.  They get a fraction of the experience, but given the way experience ramping works, they're never more than a few levels behind.

I got to understand harmony chains and saving up echoes recently.  Again, it seems to make no difference with normal opponents.  By the time each character is done hacking at the enemy, so many hits have been chained together (e.g., in the 20s for the twin girls) that the final special-attack blow is massive.  I'm going to try using this approach with bosses--save up the the echoes for the strongest in my party.

I walked into this with my eyes open.  I knew about the genre beforehand.  I did hope for more advanced environment depiction and interaction.  (I'm not complaining about looks, mind you.)  And I did hope for more advanced and varied battle tactics.  The story is definitely compelling so far.  The dialog . . . is . . . ever . . . so . . . slow, though.  I'm listening in English.  I've heard that the pace feels better in Japanese.  Maybe during the encore?

[Quemaqua]

I'm listening in the Japanese and it feels nice and natural, so I don't know.  Didn't even try the English.  And unfortunately yeah, the environmental restrictions really do suck and feel like they date the game horribly.  That's easily my biggest gripe.  I don't even care so much about camera angles, I just can't stand invisible walls.

[Cobra951]

I finished the game last night, although it came as a bit of a surprise, since I never got to party level 6.  It turns out that I missed something.  The final boss was a real surprise.

I was absorbed by the story, and watching the ending was not a chore at all.  It's all very nicely done.  There's a lot of dialogue during the scrolling end credits, and there were no subtitles during it.  It makes sense, since they want you reading the credits.  I wonder if this is handled differently if you are listening in Japanese while reading English.  It would be a shame not to understand it.

I never had to vary my fighting tactics.  I suppose the details might be considered a . . .

(click to show/hide)

Chaining hits is the key to big damage.  The special attacks with the most hits trump all the others, even when acquired much later in the game.  The attacks with fewer hits should be set up as the secondary ones (II) to use in harmony chains.  The speed attribute determines the order in which your 3 fighting party members will attack.  It makes no difference how you arrange them.  If you want them to attack in a different sequence, you need to alter their relative speeds somehow.    (There are ways.)  A character which manages hit counts up into the 20s (including special-attack hits) will build up echoes even when using a special attack.  Going for harmony chains will deplete them, though.  So the ideal is to let characters with lots of hits go first to rack up echoes even when dealing out massive damage, then let the final attacker capitalize on the echoes with a harmony chain.  As I said before, there is much more strategy in the setup than in the execution.  Once character choice and development were far along, I left healing entirely up to items.  Spending special attacks on it would be a waste.

This is a lovely game, all things considered.  I'm glad I stuck with it.  I started a 2nd game from the clear-data save point, which some have called mandatory.  I don't think so.  Achievements aside, there doesn't seem to be a good reason for it.  The game is much harder the 2nd time, though, so those seeking a greater challenge might welcome it.  (This was unexpected, so I looked it up.  I read that enemies get twice the health and 1.5 times attack and defense powers, without giving out any extra experience or gold.)  To me, it simply means more tedious leveling up than before.  Heh.  I doubt I'll finish it.

[Quemaqua]

I can see myself playing it twice if I wanted to see the story twice, but not for gameplay reasons.  Though I've honestly stopped playing it now just because I'm so obsessed with Vagrant Story/Final Fantasy XII.  Can't seem to stop.

[Cobra951]

You should finish it when you get a chance.  It's worth it.

I went back to a saved game before the clear data.  (I always rotate through a few save slots.)  That's so I could go to the place I missed.  It's huge and painful.  My party has gained about 15 levels so far, and I'm not done.  I hate party level 6.  They randomize attack and defense buttons as "an offset" to giving you 6 harmony chains without depleting echoes, and carrying them to the next battle.  Screwing up control is always a bad thing, always.  I find myself avoiding harmony chains now except for when I think they'll finish the job.

[Quemaqua]

Julia wanted me to give you an update, Cobra, since she knew you were playing.  It's a bit of an old update now, but... heh.

She did go back through the huge Mysterious Unison (I think?) dungeon, and she got about another 15 hours or so of game out of it.  She really enjoyed it on the whole, and was glad she went through it.  I'm not sure what her total game hours were, but a hell of a lot more than what people were saying.  I think she got maybe 30 hours out of the main quest (she takes her time; like I do, but moreso) and then another 15 or 20 or whatever it was from the huge dungeon.  Pretty cool!

I still haven't gone back to finish it, myself, but I plan to as soon as I'm in the mood.  The game has a very comforting atmosphere, so I'll return to it as soon as I need a little gaming comfort food, as it were.

EDIT - Oh, and you were right.  If you're playing in Japanese, the ending bit during the credits isn't subtitled.  She was very pissed about this and I suggested that YouTube would probably have it.  Fortunately it did, so she was able to find and hear what they were saying finally.

[Cobra951]

How quickly we forget.  I had put ES out of my mind entirely.  Yes, that is the name of the dungeon.  The good thing about it is that you can level up your party and rack up gold a lot quicker than anywhere else.  The final fight is so easy with everyone's level maxed out.  Even if you skip it, this is not a short game.  After finishing the game with Mysterious Unison (from a save near the end--I did not replay from scratch), I never looked back.  Good game, but that was more than enough.