Topic: I always wondered...

[idolminds]

You know in the bible somewhere it says just thinking about doing something is as bad as actually doing it? Like, its a sin to murder someone, and its a sin to think about murdering someone. Something like that. Does that work both ways? I thought about donating a million dollars to charity, do I still get credit for it?



*Disclaimer: I find religion interesting, including the various "rules" surrounding them. I don't mean this to be offensive to anyone, its just an amusing observation.

[shock]

I'd imagine not.  Jehovah just wants to make you feel really bad about yourself so that you feel the need to be saved by Christ.  He'd probably criticize the fact that you kept any of your money to yourself.

Disclaimer: I am feeling particularly disgruntled at religion at the moment.  Please don't take any offense to my post.

[Xessive]

In Islam there's a slight distinction. We will be judged by intentions and our will. So if you intend to do something particularily evil, then it will be accounted for, and if you intend to do something good then it will also be accounted for. So it's really more up to what the person intends: if he/she is an asshole then it'll be marked down, and if he/she is awesome it'll be marked down. And during the the Holy Month of Ramadan the gates of Heaven are open and points for good deeds are doubled! So there's a lot more opportunity to earn Good points.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Islam is kinda like a sport, it's 'point' oriented. We have good points and bad points, and by the time Judgement Day comes they get weighed against each other, and how you did determines your next destination. In the case of Heaven and Hell, all who enter Heaven are eternally there, but not all who enter Hell stay there forever; some will serve a sentence to the amount of sinning they've done and some will permanently reside in Hell. It depends on who got to the 'point of no return' in terms of villainy.

Actually speaking of Jesus, a lot of people don't know that in Islam we believe in Jesus and the Virgin Mary. We also believe that Jesus will return and save us. The only difference is that we don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that he was not crucified.

[ender]

I think mainly those passages are used to describe the spiritual link to the human mind. Basically, everything that passes through your mind is indicative of the kind of lifestyle and values you hold. It's like a massive spotlight that uncovers every area of your existance. Even if you hide a bottle of Jack Daniels to get drunk at work in your locked office drawer, though no one may know you are doing this... it is happening, thus you are held responsible. It just goes to disprove the mindset "if I am not caught, it's okay to do." Whether it is known what someone does, that doesn't change the fact that it happened, was thought about, etc.

And this goes towards your intention of the donation of the $1 Million dollars. In your thought process, if you think about pondering on the subject only to be looked on in favor -- that in itself would be indicative of sinful nature. Because it obviously is not a truthful reponse. But if you long (truly, sincerely) to give to people but lack the resourses I would say generally that would be a positive spiritual trait. Not sure if you meant this seriously at all... but this got me interested in thinking about the subject.

[ender]

And I think the Christian out look is similiar to Xessive's muslim views. Except in Christianity good deeds alone are not the factor that determines salvation, but only the realization of the sacrifice and love that God has bestowed to us as a gift. A rather simple acceptance, but made extremely complicated by the reasoning of the human mind. Of course these views change by different denominations and societies. Mine is generally a simplified, based on the scriptures and not at all on the different later traditions of Catholocism, Easterb Orthodox or Baptist, etc movements.

[Ghandi]

I think that the passage you are referring to is in John (maybe Matthew?) and what Jesus is adressing is the Pharisees, and basically what was happening was that they worshipped and followed the word of Moses and God's commandments very accuratley- Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc. What Jesus was adressing was the fact that they were putting on a front- they were not holy, they were acting holy for everyone else to see. So thats the biblical background for it, but it definitley still stands, and basically what he was saying is that our intentions should be pure. So, I think the main point in the original question is simply the fact that you want to get credit for donating to charity. Not that you were serious, of course, but on a lesser scale, this same logic applies.

As for the "rules", I don't know exactly what you are referring to. I assume not the Ten Commandments, but various church rules and whatnot. I agree that many are silly, I'm a Catholic so I know a great deal about that. Of course some of them were man-made (so to speak) to account for various factors, such as the "no birth control" rule. The whole reason for that one was to increase the population of the Catholic church at a time when we didn't have many followers. But, of course, there are rules that I agree with and whatnot. I guess in the end what it comes down to is that nothing, including religion (or, mans interpretation of how to practice it) is perfect.

[Quemaqua]

Many religious rules have little to do with the teachings of the religion and more to do with people's own need to set boundaries for themselves, at least in my experience.

Anyway, I think this is often misinterpreted.  I don't believe that it means to imply that thinking about murder and doing murder are the same thing or are "as bad" as one another, but instead wants to point to the fact that God doesn't tolerate sin, period.  An evil thought is not as severe as an evil action, but sin in and of itself is enough to separate us from God.  It's like a cancer -- the two just don't mix.  Even a little bit is too much.  The point is that we aren't perfect, because no matter how well we try to live our lives, it's all but impossible for us to actually live without sin in at least some form.  But God forgives us these things through the blood of Christ.  Because of His sacrifice, we are able to shirk the penalties of living the way we so often do.  It isn't merely there to say that we need Him to enter heaven, but also to say that no matter how much crap we've done, we can always turn over a new leaf -- because while sin is sin and death is death, Christ overcomes them both.

[Xessive]

Hehe you just reminded me of Minority Report

In Islam we have something similar to Christianity going on with atonement and repentance. After all, to err is human. We're not perfect beings, we will make mistakes, as long as we make amends and repent we're fine. Of course repentance means you're not going to repeat the sin.