Topic: The Official BioShock thread.

[MysterD]

Bioshock from the X360 gets a TEN from Eurogamer

GamesRadar gives Bioshock for the PC a TEN

If you’re worrying about the dreaded taint of consolification, by the way, don’t. It’s clear that the PC team at Irrational are every bit as platform-snobbish as us. There’s a PC-only options menu that lets you turn off the quest compass guiding you to your next objective, disable the golden sheen on mission-critical items, and as for auto-aiming, it isn’t even an option unless you plug in a 360 pad.

Sounds like they ain't botching this PC version one bit.
Amen to that.   

Also exclusive to this edition is a magnificently intricate PC-only quick-switch menu. Because you can have 19 different weapon ammo types on top of your six Plasmids at any given time, using the mouse wheel can get fiddly. So there’s also a key you can hold down to pause the game and pick any one of those 25 modes of attack with a single click.

Sweet.

Hacking, too, has been designed differently for the PC to make best use of the mouse - it’s quicker, slicker and less frustrating than the sluggish Xbox controls.

Good.

The final geekily gratifying thing about the PC version is how well it runs. It was dazzlingly beautiful and hitchlessly smooth on a machine with an Athlon X2 5200 and a single entry-level GeForce 8800 - running DirectX 9. And this was at 1600x900 on max settings.

I wonder how it'll run on my current rig.... (see my specs in the sig).

[idolminds]

If you aren't getting the CE (and unless you preordered it, chances are you won't be getting one), Circuit City next week will have Bioshock PC for $39.99.

Now I sit back and laugh at the morons preloading the game on Steam and paying $50 for their copy and not even getting a disc.

[MysterD]

If you aren't getting the CE (and unless you preordered it, chances are you won't be getting one), Circuit City next week will have Bioshock PC for $39.99.

Now I sit back and laugh at the morons preloading the game on Steam and paying $50 for their copy and not even getting a disc.

Oh, is this why the game requires an Internet Connection on the PC version basically -- b/c it's on STEAM???

So, okay, next question -- is STEAM actually REQUIRED for this game, even if I buy it on DVD at a Retail Outlet?

Or is it like Dark Messiah where you can actually have the choice to...
1. Install the SP and not let that deal w/ STEAM
2. OR install the SP and convert it into STEAM files?

[Xessive]

The Steam crap is bullshit. As usual.

By the way I just checked out the Demo on X360.. Holy monkey.. This game could actually convince me to get a 360.. I know I'm definitely going to buy Bioshock. Now I'll have to see just what the PC features are. If Steam is forced on me it will likely deter me from getting it on PC.

[idolminds]

2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.

And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.

PS, PC demo to be released tomorrow.

[MysterD]

2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.

Good. I would like to try and avoid STEAM as much as possible!

And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.

Lucky bastards.

PS, PC demo to be released tomorrow.

Oh, fuck yeah!!!

[Cobra951]

2K is just selling the game everywhere. Retail, Steam, and Direct2Drive are the ones I know of. None of the versions have anything to do with each other, so if you buy retail you don't have to use Steam (in fact, I don't think you can use your retail CD Key with Steam at all but thats not confirmed). However even retail will need to authenticate itself by connecting to 2Ks servers when you install.

And of course the 360 version doesnt have to deal with any of this bullshit. So I guess thats a plus in their column.

Huge plus, or rather, the PC-side bullshit is a huge minus.  Maybe bears discussion in the "How long PC's last as gaming platforms?" thread.

[idolminds]

Interesting note, though. If you look at torrent sites the 360 version is quite the popular download, and so far I havent seen a single PC torrent. So maybe its working. For now at least.

[Quemaqua]

Actually, when I looked at the torrents just yesterday there was like nothing.  Hardly any seeders or leechers.  Weird, I count almost 8000 people leeching one of the torrents now.  Yikes.  Fucking pirates.

EDIT - More stuff from the Cult site.  You can read the last Q&A which has just been posted.  Nothing all that special, really, though a few nice tidbits about the PC version.

My favorite part of the whole thing:

How did you juggle making this game for a System Shock 2 audience and a wider FPS crowd?

It wasn’t really a juggle. We thought SS2 was a great game, it just wasn’t a great shooter. So we kept everything that was great in SS2 and added the great shooter part. And we had way more time and way more money than we had when making SS2. BioShock is a game we would have liked to have made 10 years ago if we had the resources.

That's how I always felt about it.  Makes me excited enough about BioShock to just get sick all over the floor.  Aww.

Also, the PC demo is NOT confirmed.  Somebody posted that prematurely, I guess.  2K said that it might not make it out on the 17th (which may indicate that it'll be ready on the 18th?).  Either way, it should be soon.

Lastly, the final version of the official site is now up.  Has a couple new things, nothing major.

[MysterD]

I wonder how crazy PC servers will be for the PC Demo tomorrow.

You can count on me DLing Bioshock DEMO for the PC Tomorrow -- I don't care how many GIGS it will be!

[MysterD]

IGN scores the X360 version w/ a high score of 9.7
PC Version review to come late this week from IGN.

FIVE stars from Gamespy for the X360 version of Bioshock (out of 5 stars).

[iPPi]

I just tried the demo on the 360.  UNBELIEVABLE.  This is an amazing game.

[K-man]

I'm about to share what is sure to be an unpopular opinion.

I downloaded the BioShock demo the other night after hearing consistently how good it was.  Pyro was there when it finished so he just watched me play through it.  I have never played System Shock 2 (although I have "acquired" it and plan to give it some time).  And this is only a review of the DEMO - so bear that in mind while reading.

**Possible demo "spoilers" so if you want to experience the game as a true and total virgin (read:  Not Lindsey Lohan) then stop reading here.  If you wanna douse yourself in a little bit of the sexual candy that is the demo then keep reading.



First impression upon starting the demo.  :Jawdrop  PRETTTTTYYYYYY!  Water is rendered excellently.  I hung around and watched the plane sink and headed in.  The art-deco style is awesome and terribly appropriate given the timeframe and setting.  Very steampunkish.   They obviously did their homework in the atmosphere department.  The game relied heavily on not just surprise....but anticipated surprise.  You walked around scared to death that something was going to be around the corner.  Sometimes there was, sometimes there wasn't.  There's a tension that isn't there in a lot of games.  It isn't a horror movie scare you sort of thing, it's more psychological than that.  Not as blatant as FEAR but a more appropriate comparision I suppose. 

The graphics are absolutely beautiful.  From the period advertisement/artwork on the walls to the architecture itself, it's obvious a lot of research into the styling took place.  In fact I would say that this is probably one of the prettiest (if not THE prettiest) games to hit the 360 yet, suggesting that the overall power of this console has yet to be tapped completely. 

The sound is gorgeous as well.  It actually accomplishes a good bit more than other games in immersing you into the environment.  No matter where you are, the ocean is still present in the background.  Pipes still clank, etc.  The music is a nice touch. 

The game mechanics are typical FPS.  You get guns and you get magic.  Granted you'll be able to expand upon Plasmids well beyond the capacity of the demo.  Lets be real here.  There's only so many times you're going to be able to reinvent the FPS wheel.  I think we reached the maximum allocation years ago.  A FPS is exactly what it is.  The core elements will always remain the same.  While the developer certainly isn't to blame for this, the game doesn't break any new ground either.  It is a competent FPS.  It isn't the second coming of Christ.

Like I said above, the atmosphere and story is the significant propellant of this game.  Sure, you'll want to experiment with killing the splicers in different ways.  You'll want to experiment with setting traps.  But in the end it's all going to boil down to merely wanting to see what happens next.  It's a fairly long campaign (estimated at 20-25 hours) so there's a lot of story there.  However, once you're done I don't see a lot of potential for replay value.  I think the experience that will be delivered will be great....but once that experience is delivered and there are no more surprises, the game changes.  The second time I played through the demo was much more methodical and plain than the first time.  Not because I wanted it that way, but for me all the surprise was not there anymore.  If that's what a second playthrough would be like then there's no impetus for me to continue it.  There are plenty of games coming out that I want to play (that will offer SIGNIFICANT replay).  This is the main reason why I'm very surprised at the high reviews I've seen.  I think a few years from now people will offer a much more mellow look at the game.

I'm not saying BioShock is going to be a terrible game.  On the contrary, I think it's going to be an excellent game.  However, with my budget, I need to be VERY wary about what games I purchase new at the 50 and 60 dollar price point.  Unfortunately I don't think this title meets that criteria.  It's gonna be a one-shot deal.  You finish the game and most of the thrill will be gone forever.  I forsee this game being widely available used a few weeks after it hits because people will just play through and trade it in.  And it's also hitting at a bad time where we've got Metroid Prime 3 coming out a week after and Halo 3 hitting in less than a month.  For someone that absolutely HAS to be cost-conscious, it just doesn't scream "MUST BUY IMMEDIATELY" to me.

Now, if this were say...April it would be a much easier decision to buy (again, for me personally).  But there's so much good stuff hitting in the next few months that I have to delegate certain releases until a later time....and this will probably have to be one of them.

[Quemaqua]

We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!

[MysterD]

We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!

Always someone wants to spoil some of the endings -- heh.

Yuh, I stayed away from STALKER's Official boards before I the finished the game b/c there are threads where -- well, people talk about what the SEVEN different endings are; and how to actually "earn" them.

STALKER Spoiler of Who You Are....

(click to show/hide)

Though, I did think it was cool that in STALKER, just about nobody knows or seen this Strelok character really -- but, you're task is to kill him. And yes, if you do a certain side quest, you will FIND OUT THAT YOU ARE HIM.

I was disappointed that after you find out WHO YOU ARE, there's no option to really commit suicide, so that you finish *that* "Kill Strelok" Quest. That would've been freakin' crazy!

But, yeah, back to Bioshock -- that's a shame that the game's not even "officially" out, yet spoilers are popping up on the boards. Good thing I ain't visited their Bioshock boards. I'll stay away, until I actually buy the game and actually finish it. I don't wanna spoil things for me.

I always loved how we having SPOILER tags in our threads on these OW boards. ALL message boards should have those.

[MysterD]

Destructoid Review
10 from Desutrctoid

IGN PC Review
9.7 for the PC Version of Bioshock from IGN

The review is almost the same as the X360 review, but there is talk about the PC controls instead of X360 controls and a paragraph about the system they ran the game on and how well it ran.

If you're debating which version to get, the PC version handles better. In part it's because of the greater precision with the mouse and keyboard, but also with how the plasmids and weapons are selected. With the default settings RMB switches between the two, LMB fires, and you use the mouse wheel instead of a radial menu to select a specific plasmid or weapon. This keeps you rooted in the action to a greater degree than in the Xbox 360 version, since you don't have to keep pausing the game. By hitting Shift you can bring up a plasmid and weapon selection screen if you so desire, but the mouse wheel scrolled through fast enough to stay useful. Note that you can't set LMB to fire a weapon and RMB to fire a plasmid; there's only one fire function. We also noticed the option to bind the functions "switch and fire weapon" and "switch and fire plasmid," but when we tested it out these only switched from weapon to plasmid and back again, much like the RMB default function. All weapons and plasmids are also bound to the number and function keys, making it even easier to ensure you always have the ideal attack at the ready.

Interesting control scheme.

The PC version definitely outclasses the Xbox 360, mostly because of the ability to crank the resolution to 1920 x 1200. If you've got a Vista rig with a DX10 card, you can expect some heightened particle effects, crisper real-time shadows, and more dynamic water, but the game looks gorgeous regardless. On our gaming PC running a Core 2 Quad processor with a GeForce 8800 GTX, and 4 GB of RAM, it ran very well, with only a few occasions of seemingly random framerate hitches. We also couldn't find an option to switch between DX10 and DX9 modes, the game just seems to default to what's in your system, unlike Lost Planet.

I'm guessing MOST games should run well on an awesome system w/ a Core 2 Quad, GF 8800 GTX, and 4GB of RAM.


EDIT:
I ain't seen this on TV yet, but this is the TV Trailer for Bioshock on PC and X360

[Cobra951]

We talk about this a little in the latest podcast (which K-Man is on as well), so I won't say too much here.  Just: I think the full version has more focus on variety.  Most people seem to think this one has a pretty high amount of replay value.

Anyway... everyone be really, really careful of CultofRapture.com right now.  Well, the boards at least.  They're having a really hard time with people who got the game early posting spoilers.  Several of these are intentional fuckwits posting the end of the game in thread titles and stuff.  It's pretty bad.  You see this with games in general I guess, but it's worse than usual over there right now.  I'd just plain stay away.  I already more or less had the ending spoiled for me, but fortunately that stuff doesn't really get to me very much, and on top of that I have no idea which of the two endings it is or how it relates to any of the characters (because I really don't know much about them).  Most people would probably not be taking it as well as I, however, so... watch out!

I was a bit surprised about K-Man's comments about no new ground or replayability, given that he only got to play the demo.  There's no point reinventing the wheel if it's already perfectly round and spins freely.  The mechanics don't concern me.  My understanding from what I've read is that replayability is based on multiple approaches to tackling the game's challenges.  I don't see how this can be sampled very well from the short demo.  My feeling is that the game will be good for a couple of replays at least.  I'm very excited that the game is designed for single-player only.  When's the last time a good single-player FPS came out?  Everything seems to be multiplayer with a short solo component for practice.  I'm not at all concerned about getting my money's worth here.  Whether it's the second coming of anything, we'll have to wait and see.

About dumbfucks posting spoilers, I'd say be careful with the 2K forums as well.  I left as soon as I heard about this kind of shit happening there as well.  I'll stay away from cultofrapture.com, which I didn't even know about until now.

[Quemaqua]

Well, just stay away from the forums.  Visiting the actual Cult site isn't a bad idea.  They've got a free art book up on there and some other goodies.  They've actually been really, really good to the fans in terms of free stuff and giveaways and trying to keep everyone satisfied with up-to-date information.  It's one of the best official, company-run fan site efforts I've ever seen.

[MysterD]

My feeling is that the game will be good for a couple of replays at least.  I'm very excited that the game is designed for single-player only.  When's the last time a good single-player FPS came out? 

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

[Cobra951]

Well, just stay away from the forums.  Visiting the actual Cult site isn't a bad idea.  They've got a free art book up on there and some other goodies.  They've actually been really, really good to the fans in terms of free stuff and giveaways and trying to keep everyone satisfied with up-to-date information.  It's one of the best official, company-run fan site efforts I've ever seen.

Oh, the official site for the game.  I already got the art book, although I have not looked at it because of the spoiler (in the foreword page) warning.  Is it something that pops out at you if you're a good reader?  I really don't want to stumble into it.  I went there from your link before.  I didn't realize it was the same place.

[Quemaqua]

It's actually very easy to avoid the spoilers.  There aren't any visual spoilers, just text.  So skip the foreward with all the text and just look at the pictures that follow (the area with the spoilers has a red warning label above it).  This is mostly concept art from before the game took its current incarnation, and some environmental stuff from the current look.

[Jedi]

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Would you shut up about that game please.

Anyway I'll have to download the demo (360) and give it a burl, Kman has a point about Halo 3 coming out soon and I want to get season 10 of Stargate (next week) so I'll have to watch what I spend my money on for the next 4 weeks.

[Quemaqua]

I think I can pretty much assure anyone with taste that this game is going to rip off the tiny balls of Halo 3 and shove them into its own eye sockets.  Of course, I'm not a Halo fan, but... yeah.

[MysterD]

I think I can pretty much assure anyone with taste that this game is going to rip off the tiny balls of Halo 3 and shove them into its own eye sockets.  Of course, I'm not a Halo fan, but... yeah.

I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.

[PyroMenace]

I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.

Thats probably because Halo 3 isnt trying to be a revolutionary FPS and i dont know why we are comparing these games.

[Quemaqua]

The argument of which is worth the money, I think.

[Jedi]

I cannot argue w/ Que on this one.

Halo 3 will probably most definitely NOT be the (r)evolutionary FPS that Bioshock will be.

Who said Halo 3 was going to be revolutionary? Hmm... no one. And for that matter (while Bio stands to be a great game, and while I am a Halo fan I can see it being the better game) I fail to see how it's going to be revolutionay. I've seen and read nothing to suggest anyhting of the sort, yeah it'll look pretty, but that doesn't mean it'll revolutionize FPS.

It is more of a question of which one would I get first, 'cause I want both.

[MysterD]

The argument of which is worth the money, I think.

Basically.

K-Man said he basically won't buy Bioshock basically b/c Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 -- all which are sequels and often sequels often don't innovate much to their very own series w/ the very next iteration -- around the corner.

Personally, I think Bioshock will be something truly special and (r)evolutionary for the actual FPS genre itself, whereas Halo 3 will just be "another f**king FPS" (that will sell millions of copies).

You know, it's really sad that b/c of franchised-series games like say Halo and many other FPS's that really do NOTHING new to the genre and not take too many risks, when Bioshock was pitched by their designers numerous times to publishers, one publisher thought of Bioshock as it'll be "another f**king FPS that will sell 250,000 units."

Wait.....was 250,000 the amount of copies System Shock 2 sold? Does anyone have a clue how many copies SS2 sold?

[MysterD]

Who said Halo 3 was going to be revolutionary? Hmm... no one. And for that matter (while Bio stands to be a great game, and while I am a Halo fan I can see it being the better game) I fail to see how it's going to be revolutionary.

I have the "R" in parenthesis for a reason -- b/c I think in one way, it's evolutionary. And in another way, it could be revolutionary to the FPS genre.

In one regard, I think the game will be more of an "evolutionary" step in the FPS genre than "revolutionary" -- evolutionary steps to further integrate the FPS and RPG genre together more so and tighter than any other FPS/RPG before it; more so than Deus Ex, more so than System Shock 2, and more so than STALKER.

But, I do say it could be "revolutionary" b/c this could be the game to make that more open-ended style of FPS's suddenly VERY popular -- if the indications of the amount of those going to DL the X360 Demo version this week AND the reviews going through the roof are telling us anything. We all know SS2, DX, and STALKER have their followings -- but, Bioshock could be the one to bring the FPS/RPG genre to major mainstream sale numbers.

I've seen and read nothing to suggest anyhting of the sort, yeah it'll look pretty, but that doesn't mean it'll revolutionize FPS.

I've already gave a few reasons. Here's more.

I think what will come from Bioshock is we might see, in design, more open-ended FPS's w/ not just finding crazy ways to set traps, perform magic spell-like abilities -- and other ways to go kill things -- but also some different moral decisions that effect the game's final ending/outcome. We know the game will have multiple endings, based on your in-game actions. Often, this is an element found in RPG's. Usually, in FPS's, one pathway, one outcome -- like it or not; which has also been many of the problems w/ the lack of growth in the pure adventure gaming genre, as well.

Also, for an FPS, I dunno, but we don't see just about every object made to be interactive w/ in some sort of fashion -- usually, we see that element in RPG games.

[Jedi]

I've already gave a few reasons. Here's more.

I think what will come from Bioshock is we might see, in design, more open-ended FPS's w/ not just finding crazy ways to set traps, perform magic spell-like abilities -- and other ways to go kill things -- but also some different moral decisions that effect the game's final ending/outcome. We know the game will have multiple endings, based on your in-game actions. Often, this is an element found in RPG's. Usually, in FPS's, one pathway, one outcome -- like it or not; which has also been many of the problems w/ the lack of growth in the pure adventure gaming genre, as well.

Also, for an FPS, I dunno, but we don't see just about every object made to be interactive w/ in some sort of fashion -- usually, we see that element in RPG games.

None of those are new, they've been done before by other games, in some cases for fraking years. Bio just does them again really really well by the sounds of it. I have no doubt that this game will be a benchmark of what FPS gaming should/could be like for years much like HL1 was. But I still don't think Bio will by re-using these things is going to revolutionize the FPS genre. Sorry I just don't see it.

Look I don't care if the game is evolutionary step or if it brings "the FPS/RPG genre to major mainstream sale numbers" (whatever that means) I just want to be entertained (which I'm sure I will be) and at the end of the day I want more than I can afford in one pay period 

[K-man]

Basically.

K-Man said he basically won't buy Bioshock basically b/c Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 -- all which are sequels and often sequels often don't innovate much to their very own series w/ the very next iteration -- around the corner.

Personally, I think Bioshock will be something truly special and (r)evolutionary for the actual FPS genre itself, whereas Halo 3 will just be "another f**king FPS" (that will sell millions of copies).

You know, it's really sad that b/c of franchised-series games like say Halo and many other FPS's that really do NOTHING new to the genre and not take too many risks, when Bioshock was pitched by their designers numerous times to publishers, one publisher thought of Bioshock as it'll be "another f**king FPS that will sell 250,000 units."

Wait.....was 250,000 the amount of copies System Shock 2 sold? Does anyone have a clue how many copies SS2 sold?

The Halo and Metroid series do not need to take risks because it has been established convincingly that the current formula is accepted as good and has a history of success.  If Bioshock is a commercial success, the sequel won't take risks either - meaning it will be another "Fucking FPS that will sell millions of copies" as you so eloquently put it.  In the gaming world, when you mess with a good thing, you generally get bad results.  That's how the business works.  You create a formula.  If it works you stick with it, if not you try something different.  Just because BioShock is a new IP does not mean that it is "(r)evolutionary."  You have multiple ways of completing tasks.  Great.  That's not entirely original.  That has been done before.  There's nothing truly original about this game.  What you DO have is a game that happens to be very well put together with a good storyline/atmosphere and a number of cool magics to play with.  It will be a good game.  It will sell well and probably spawn a few sequels.  Then maybe at that point Bioshock will be the cool thing to hate on.

Both Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 are wrapping up story lines that I'm very interested in seeing through.  I've been looking forward to MP3 since it's announcement just like Que has been looking forward to Bioshock.  And I know it's the cool thing to hate Halo but the sheer fact of the matter is that it is a very competent FPS series that maintains a huge multiplayer following.  The multiplayer following is what convinces me that it has more replay value than Bioshock (again, personal opinion, etc).  Like it or not, the games are obviously good enough to warrant millions of purchases.  If Bungie were like EA and just phoning in a game or two every year then I'd understand the criticism.  But Bungie (and Retro for that matter) have busted their collective asses making these sequels, and for someone to dismiss it as "another fucking FPS" not only makes me cringe at the stupidity, but takes away from the hard work these companies have devoted to making these games shine.  What's the point in hating a company/series that obviously found a niche that resonated with gamers and made them successful?  The problem doesn't come from those companies, the problems arise a year later when you have 40 copycat variants that invariably spew forth from other companies in an attempt to cash in on the success.

Anyhow, I want to reiterate that I don't think BioShock is going to suck.  Quite the contrary.  I'm just placing Halo 3 and Metroid Prime 3 above it in importance (to me, again personal opinion).  I'm going to own Bioshock.  It just probably won't be next week.

[sirean_syan]

I'm just going to chime in to more or less agree with K-Man here. I really do think Bioshock with be something beyond special, but I'm really limited these days by a few things.

First is time which is going to be pretty non-existent for the next few weeks come Monday.

Second is my hardware computer has aged and I don't have an Xbox360 to fall back on. I definitely want to play the game, but I don't want it run like crap or look worse than it needs to in order to enjoy it. Oblivion and a couple other newer games have shown me that my PC is older than I like if I want to get really into high end games currently. I know Oblivion isn't the best optimized game out there, but I don't want to risk buying it right now so I have to shelve the game for a while until I upgrade my system. Maybe a demo will come out and that will help the choice to buy later on.

Third, and most important, when the other two are taken into account, is freaking Metroid Prime. I can pass on Halo right now (simply because I don't have the Xbox), but Metroid is easily my favorite series out there. Given the choice, I'd almost give up gaming throughout a year for a good new Metroid. Even if it's simply a sequel to Metroid Prime 1 & 2, given the level of quality and difference compared to nearly every game out there still keeps the game fresh. The biggest thing is, Like K-Man said, it's wrapping up something I've been very invested into for the nearly past five years (more than a decade if you want to really get into things).

You refuse to touch consoles so you can't even appreciate the game, D. Don't knock every other game out there because you've forced yourself to believe that Bioshock is so blindingly new that nothing else is worthy of being placed before it. We all already know the game is a spiritual sequel to the System Shock, so it's not like it'll be entirely new. I expect it to be pretty freaking amazing in terms of immersion and structure, but right now I'd just rather see where Samus is going next.

[Quemaqua]

Don't bother reading D's posts on this stuff.  No offense, D, but you're horribly biased and have no perspective because you don't even own a console.  Just bow out of this particular discussion while you can.

And before this becomes a sad war of opinions, allow me to state the following from as objective a viewpoint as I can muster:

No matter how great BioShock may be, it's obviously perfectly within the realm of reason that someone may want other games far more than they want *it*.  They may not even want it at all!  Nobody should tell you that you should believe otherwise.  However, I think what you *shouldn't* try to say is that the game is anything less than revolutionary, at least not until you've played it and found that to be the case in your own view.  I mean, this is one of the best-reviewed games I have ever seen, right up there with OoT.  Seriously, take stock of what the journalists of the game industry are saying.  The game has received no less than 12 perfect scores so far from OXM UK, EuroGamer, Game Informer, 1Up, Gamespy, Games Radar, PC Powerplay, GamePro, the Alternative Press, Gamer.tv, Gametap, and Playboy.  Obviously several of those publications at the end matter little in the consideration, but still... that's a fucking lot, no?  And we're still very, very early in the review running.  On top of that, a healthy chunk of the other reviews are 97s and 98s.  Half-life 2, with three times the reviews, only garnered 5 or 6 perfect scores in its review run that I can find.  BioShock has already doubled that and it hasn't even released.

I hear you, it's all just numbers, and I'm not trying to say that numbers really matter that much.  They don't, generally speaking.  However, obviously there is something special happening here or you wouldn't see an entire industry of game journalists stand up this way, much less each take the time to try and craft their own individual statements about why BioShock was one of the greatest things that's happened to them in their gaming lives.  Do feel free to avoid the game or put it off or even try it and decide it isn't your cup of tea, but at least wait until you've had a chance to try the actual product before you tell the active whole of gaming journalism that they're all seeing something that isn't there, or that the bar doesn't at least *appear* to have been raised.  We'll all have to wait until we can experience this thing firsthand to truly know for ourselves, sure, but I think it's safe to say that something rare in gaming must have been achieved here.  Don't you?

Evolution and revolution are somewhat arbitrary statements with no actual meaning other than what we personally ascribe to them, so let's not waste time arguing semantics.  Let's just agree that it appears something new and different is being done.  One way or the other, whether it's a revolution or an evolution, I think it's safe to say that this is something far beyond average, and I think we can say that without stepping on anyone's taste or on the merits of any other game.

[Cobra951]

Thanks.  I wanted to reply last night, but couldn't figure out a way to do it without the appearance of blind fanboyism, or at least getting tempers flared up.  No need for that.  Any sweeping comments disputing the press on the game are premature.  About the only other thing I wanted to add is that Bioshock can't be directly compared to Halo 3.  The focus is completely different.  My bias is wholly against multiplayer shooters with shallow single-player campaigns.  But even in the opposite case, or on neutral ground, we should all agree that it's akin to apples and oranges.

[idolminds]

You know whos been missing this whole time? Jack Thompson.

[Jedi]

Well I think the last few posts sums it all up really.

oh I've since played the demo, and by god I loved every second of it, though my postion is unchanged about it being revolutionary, but man this game is going rule!

[K-man]

Thanks.  I wanted to reply last night, but couldn't figure out a way to do it without the appearance of blind fanboyism, or at least getting tempers flared up.  No need for that.  Any sweeping comments disputing the press on the game are premature.  About the only other thing I wanted to add is that Bioshock can't be directly compared to Halo 3.  The focus is completely different.  My bias is wholly against multiplayer shooters with shallow single-player campaigns.  But even in the opposite case, or on neutral ground, we should all agree that it's akin to apples and oranges.

I agree about the apples and oranges thing.  Howver, I have to disagree if you're calling Halo a shallow single-player campaign.  I really enjoyed the first two, and look forward to wrapping the story up in 3.  But that's personal opinion, and not one that's shared by a strict majority.

Anyhow, I don't want to turn this into a halo vs bioshock thing, because that's not what it is.  Both games will serve two strict specific purposes, and those purposes are different

[Quemaqua]

Oh, Jack Thompson, how we love to watch you spew your idiotic comments to your own detriment.  BioShock isn't going to suffer in the least for your concerns.  And let's just take the fact that you complain about the ads being shown on a PRO WRESTLING program, which to me is far, far more vile and destructive, not because it's just violent, but because it has absolutely nothing behind its violence, its overt sexuality, etc.  Do I think it's some terrible thing that needs to be destroyed?  No.  However, I think BioShock, while possibly more shocking, is a far better piece of entertainment because there's so much behind it.  Do you fucking think for one second that watching wrestling is going to get a kid to read Ayn Rand?  No.  It's going to turn him into a redneck, at worst.  Yet how many people have heard the word "Objectivism" for the first time in their lives because of BioShock?  Did any of them know what a Randian principle was?  Did any of them consider the fate of a utopia governed by a lunatic who believed in the infallibility of man?  Did they consider why such a thing COULD work, or determine in their own minds that it COULDN'T?

Fuck you, Jack Thompson.  It's because of people like you that the American populace at large will continue to live in a philosophical dark age for years to come.

EDIT - As far as Halo goes, I too found it shallow and uninteresting.  You can probably tell just why by reading the above post.  However, there are plenty of shallow games plot-wise that I find fun and engaging (I'm currently enjoying Darkwatch, I'm a huge fan of Painkiller), so yes, I agree that there's nothing inherently wrong with that.  My lack of love for Halo comes from just plain repetitive and (in my view) uninspired design, which is I guess why I differentiate it from other games that may not be the deepest in the world.  But that doesn't make it a bad game.  In fact, I've never claimed that it's outright bad.  My single beef with Halo is that I don't believe it deserves the accolades it gets.  Well, and the way Microsoft has handled the game over the years, but that's got nothing to do with either Bungie or Halo itself.  My single complaint with Halo is that I don't think it should be a pillar of the industry.  That's it, plain and simple.  My exact same complaint about HL2, actually.  I liked it, it was fun, but I don't think it deserves much of the recognition that it's gotten from fans.  But that's just part of the business.  Critical acclaim and financial success sometimes mix, but far from consistently, especially when it comes to franchises that try to do something different.  As others have stated, you make a formula and stick to it.  That's what's going to bring you money and fans.  The Mana franchise has proven that trying to be fresh and change things up, even if you make some pretty good games, will basically spell your doom.

I think where BioShock breaks this mold is by giving the player the choice to play it like he wants.  Hate story?  Want to just skip most of the backstory?  Just feeling like shooting shit?  Done.  You got it.  Want moral dilemmas?  Want historical context?  Want philosophical questions?  Done.  Look around and discover it.  Want to just play through the game 'till you finish?  Done.  Love to explore every tiny aspect of the world you're in and still find fascinating things to hold your interest?  Done.  To me, that's the big difference.  Other games have tried this approach before, but it would appear none with the sort of success that BioShock apparently has had with it.  So it remains grounded in basic principles and allows itself to be played on those terms, but also offers snobs like myself a hell of a lot more to sink their teeth into.  That's pretty special, allowing innovation to hopefully not interfere too much in basic design principles.  On top of that, the basic design principles allow for huge levels of customization too, so you can just come into it wanting a pure shooter without much fluff and still have lots of choices in how you want to accomplish that.

EDIT x2 - In case anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm not attempting to argue anything about superiority.  I hope I made that clear again.  I'm just trying to put down on paper exactly where I think BioShock manages to push out previously-defined lines.

[K-man]

Jack Thompson has turned into a caricature of himself.  He's harmless.  Definitely not taken very seriously any more.

[idolminds]

Official site says PC demo releases tomorrow, 7PM EST.