Topic: The Official BioShock thread.

[Quemaqua]

Just in not enough time for me to see how well it works on my 7800.  Fuck.  Well, maybe not.  And people are saying it'll run okay anyway.  Damn it, I just really want an 8800.   

[MysterD]

Official site says PC demo releases tomorrow, 7PM EST.

HELL YES!!!!

[idolminds]

So...what the fuck is going on? Does Irrational or 2K hate PC gamers?

The first thing was the online auth servers aren't up. However, some stores have broken street date and are selling the game, and people buying it come home to find out they can't install the game since the auth servers aren't up. Sure, it wasn't supposed to be sold yet but why punish the customer and not the store? Of course if you can get the 360 version early you can just play it, so why don't they just get the auth servers online a little early to keep the players happy?

And just now it has come to my attention that you can pre-load the demo via Fileplanet. You know, as a subscriber. So the demo is apparently done and ready to go, but they had to give fileplanet the exclusive to preload...wait...preload? Yes! You can download the demo and NOT play it until the "official" release tomorrow evening. 360 demo? Oh yeah, thats been out for like a week already and anyone with a 360 can download it for free.

What the hell happened here?

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, this was a huge blunder.  I could forgive the rest of it, but that's just stupid as fuck.  I don't know what 2K was thinking.  I wonder what Irrational's stance is on it.  I mean, they've been purchased by 2K now so their official stance has to be... nothing.  But I still wonder if anybody there is pissed.  I can't imagine they'd be stupid enough to do this of their own volition.

[MysterD]

So...what the fuck is going on? Does Irrational or 2K hate PC gamers?

The first thing was the online auth servers aren't up. However, some stores have broken street date and are selling the game, and people buying it come home to find out they can't install the game since the auth servers aren't up. Sure, it wasn't supposed to be sold yet but why punish the customer and not the store? Of course if you can get the 360 version early you can just play it, so why don't they just get the auth servers online a little early to keep the players happy?

All this makes me wonder, after XB Live had trouble w/ the so many jamming online to get the demo that their XB Live Marketplace actual servers crashed....

...Do you think on this Tuesday, that same kind of overload of traffic on the PC version's Authentication Servers could cause that Auth-server to crash and many gamers won't be able to install their PC game of Bioshock on Tuesday?

[Quemaqua]

We're all hoping not, but who knows.  It starts with some sort of patch, that's been confirmed, and they've claimed there won't be overload the way HL2 had.  We won't know 'till it happens.

[MysterD]

LEVINE SPEAKS:
Ken Levine of 2K Games addresses the "Message Board" situation w/ people posting spoilers galore

A MESSAGE FROM KEN
August 19, 2007

Ken Levine posted this to the 2K forums. I found his words wise, and decided to repost for you all:

If you're going to buy the game this week, I highly recommend you stay away from any forums that might have spoilers until you play the game through. Our goal in making the game was to thrill and, often, surprise you.

Please don't ruin other people's experience by revealing secrets in unmarked threads, and if you want to enjoy the game to its fullest, stay away from any threads that might ruin the fun for you. With a game like BioShock, it will really make a difference.

Best,
Ken

BETHSOFT:
Guess what game a bunch of BethSoft game designers are playing?

[firestorm225]

Apparently people figured out how to download an unencrypted version from Fileplanet, and while Fileplanet closed that loophole, the demo is available via torrent here:

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3778797

[Quemaqua]

Do you mean... we can play that one?  Because if so, I love you and will have your babies.

[firestorm225]

Some people posted this screen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Derlok/1187577083174.jpg

I'm still looking for confirmation on the 2kgames forum but I wanna leave this download overnight so I can play it tomorrow morning. But I dunno if there's still gonna be encryption on the demo or what.

[Quemaqua]

Awesome.  Download rate is horrendous at this point because there are barely any seeders, but hopefully that improves.

[firestorm225]

There's a big thread here as I mentioned:

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4491

Seems more people are saying this works. My torrent speeds are getting better so hopefully this will work when it's done tomorrow morning.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, I've been following the thread.  I practically live over there the last few days.

We're up to 16 seeders now, with over 1500 fucking people trying to get this thing.  Crazy.  And for a DEMO.

EDIT - Thread just got closed.  Liz doesn't want people talking about torrents.  Come on, it's a fucking DEMO that you should have gotten to us DAYS ago!  For crying out loud.  Ugh.  I hate red tape.  I don't blame anyone, I know this is all bureaucracy, but that doesn't make it any less obnoxious.

EDIT x2 - 2100 people on the torrent. 23 seeders. My download rate is worse than ever.

[PyroMenace]

Just wait 2 more days.

[Quemaqua]

Fuck that.  I want to know if this thing is going to run the way I'm assuming it will (which is pretty good).  If I can find out today that it runs like shit, I can go get an 8800GT tomorrow and install it before I get my copy.  I'd rather go that route than find out it runs crappy and go buy the 360 version.

EDIT - 40 seeders and 2700 leechers!  Haha.  It grows by the minute.

[idolminds]

So it looks like both ATI and Nvidia are releasing drivers tomorrow that help Bioshock run better. Could be why they delayed the release...or something.

[Quemaqua]

That seems to be everyone's guess.  But from performance reports so far, it seems unnecessary.  Nobody's been complaining of bad performance.  Quite the contrary.

[angrykeebler]

holy crap..check out this gameplay video someone put up on Youtube. 

[JacksRag(e)]

Just finished playing through the PC demo.  I had the visuals all cranked up to high and the resolution at 1280x800.  Suffice to say, everything looked gorgeous.  I played through both on the same monitor and I have to say that the PC version is nicer looking.  I actually did a double take at some of the water scenes and just the overall look of the game is improved over the 360 version I'd say.
The controls are where I'm happiest.  It feels far more natural on a mouse and keyboard.  Instead of having left and right mouse buttons controlling the respective weapons and plasmids, they have the left button act as the action button and the right button switch from plasmid to weapon.  Feels pretty nice, actually.  It's more natural to look around as you can just wave the mouse around and see everywhere, whereas using the right stick on the 360 controller felt a little restricting at times.  I liked that.  And also, in the PC demo you seem to move faster.  The demo now has this sort of frantic feel to it that the 360 demo didn't have for me.
Overall, this game feels and runs like a champ.  I'm sold.  I have my LE waiting for me at the Gamestop tomorrow.  I can't wait.

Oh and the only thing I had any issue with was the loading.  The loading, at least on my end, was a little bit on the long side.  It took about a minute and a half to two minutes to load up at each load screen.  I hope it's just the demo.  We'll see.  Otherwise, I may have to go and get an 8800.  Bah.

[MysterD]

Okay....I wonder how many people will claim they have a busted Big Daddy figurine (whether it's busted or not) just so they can get a Printed Art Book for FREE...hehe!

Or I wonder how many people will tell their UPS or Fed Ex or DHL delivery man -- "Do me a favor, slam the FRAGILE package on the ground!"

OFFICIAL BIG DADDY FIGURINE ANNOUNCEMENT
August 20, 2007

There have been some rumors about the Big Daddy figurines including in the BioShock Limited Edition being damaged. Here's the deal about them:

As often happens with large shipments, a small percentage of the Big Daddy units reached retailers damaged. Since it stinks to get a broken figurine on launch day, we're putting a plan into place if you do receive a damaged Big Daddy.

Go to www.2kgames.com/bioshock/busted and, later this week, enter your info if you have received a broken figurine. We will ship you a pre-paid box to send your damaged Big Daddy back to us. And since it will take some time to get your new Big Daddy to you, will will be shipping you a printed BioShock art book to help tide you over until your Big Daddy is back to you.

[MysterD]

9.0 from Gamespot for the X360 version.

[Quemaqua]

That's by far the worst review the game has gotten yet, but I find that very unsurprising given that Gerstmann did it.  Honestly, the more I hear from that guy, the less I like him.  This has nothing to do with the BioShock review, but his reviews in general I often disagree with (such as the obscenely low score for LocoRoco) and he and I most definitely do not share the same taste.  Topping that off, I think he's generally sort of an imbecilic loudmouth, and his obsession with appearing to know lots about rap music never gets any less fucking annoying.  We get it.  Shut the fuck up.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.  Some of what he mentions in his review isn't mentioned by many other reviews, but some of it is.  However, no other review has mentioned the 360 hitching problem they seemed to have over there, so I don't know what that's all about.  Go figure.  He makes a few comments that strike me as the usual Gerstmann overstatement, but I'll reserve judgment until I play the full game.

[MysterD]

Death in BioShock is barely even a setback. When you die, you're reconstituted at the nearest vita-chamber and sent on your way with your inventory intact and most of your health.

This isn't a reload, so everything is as you left it, even the damage that you've already done to any surviving enemies. So you can wear down a big daddy by just running at it again and again with little or no care for your health. That, of course, can get tedious, but having that possibility is a blessing--and a curse. On one hand, you're free to try out new things, like plasmid and tonic combinations, with no penalty if you equip some bum techniques. On the other, there aren't any real gameplay consequences, so playing with skill isn't rewarded. You could fumble your way through the 15 or 20 hours it'll probably take to properly explore Rapture and still see everything there is to see.

Another even harder, more Hardcore difficulty where the "health of enemies on reset when the player dies" or some would be freakin' sweet -- I'd like more challenge; and another reason to run through a game again!

I understand what Irrational is trying to do, by trying to eliminate death in the game and trying to make the casual gamer able to finish the game here, which is fine -- but, the game really should've had another high difficulty where "the health of enemies are reset when the player dies."

Hey, it'd be nice if Irrational/2K adds such an extra in-game diffuculty in a patch! There's a suggestion for Irrational/2K, for a patch!
 

This, along with three selectable difficulty settings, leaves you with the impression that the game was made to cater to a wide audience, but the hard difficulty setting doesn't actually impact things like artificial intelligence or force you to play any more skillfully to succeed. The enemies still mostly run at you mindlessly while attacking, occasionally getting into scraps with one another or breaking off to find a healing machine, but they take longer to kill and hurt you more when they hit.

Most games when you do a Harder Diffuculty, do this -- so, I dunno why the hell Gertsmann is complaining too much here.

I mean, it's not like he complained about the game's AI at all, you know...?

[K-man]

Some early reports from a few guys over at the other forum I moderate say the game is excellent.  They also say that the demo is not truly representative of the full game.  A personal friend of mine has it and is about six hours in.  He's talking GOTY material.

Guess that means you can disregard some of my above comments.  However I'm still buying Metroid Prime 3, so I doubt I can pony up for this too.

And I was truly waiting for the Gamespot review.  I take them more seriously than the other pubs/sites because (IMO) they offered much more balanced reviews.  However I agree with Que about Gerstmann.  I really miss Greg Kasavin.

[MysterD]

I really miss Greg Kasavin.

I do miss his reviews, too -- he was a really good game reviewer.

EDIT:
In regards to me wanting another harder diffuculty where the enemies' health resets when the player dies, I began a NEW Poll on the CultOfRapture's forums right HERE!

Hopefully, the designers like my suggestion and do something about it!

Or, some modders makes such a mod, if the designer's won't do it!

[Quemaqua]

Amen, brothers.  Kasavin was a true professional.

And MyD, I highly doubt they're going to add anything in a patch, though you never know.  Levine has talked about how much he's admired some others devs like Shiny, and patch #3 for Sacrifice is one of the best patches I've ever seen in my years of PC gaming (in terms of not only fixing things, but adding great content for free).  Still, don't hold your breath.

Anyway, I played the demo and I'm impressed.  Not necessarily blown away, but I wasn't really expecting the *demo* to blow me away.  The single reason I ran it was not to get a taste of the gameplay or try shooting fire at someone's head (which I don't assume is going to be *that* different from shooting fire at someone's head in another game), but I wanted to make sure everything ran great.

So for those of you looking for technical stuff, here are your answers:

Firstly, the game runs beautifully on my 7800GT.  Now that doesn't mean 60 frames a second, obviously.  We're talking 20s and 30s here, but that's definitely acceptable for me.  I basically am faced with two options according to the demo's performance, and that's either run the game at my monitor's maximum res (1280x1024) and get about 15-35 FPS depending on the action and area, or run it at 1024x768 and get about 20-40 FPS.  Oh, and this is with every single option cranked to max and also with the latest nVidia beta drivers which supposedly give a big performance boost for BioShock.

So yeah, I'm happy.  It's far from perfect certainly, but the game looks fucking AMAZING (this is hands-down the greatest-looking game I have ever seen in terms of amazing tech married to great design) and is smooth enough to be playable without causing any gameplay ramifications or frustration on my part.  Even with lots of enemies and effects flying it stays consistent, so that's saying something.  So yeah, not perfect, but definitely enough to allow me to hold off on that 8800 without feeling too gimped.

Can't wait.  Finishing up Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged again tomorrow, which I'd been rereading for the occasion, so I'm all set.  Tomorrow night can't come fast enough.  Provided, of course, the thing installs and authenticates without any hitches.  Here's hoping!

[K-man]

I just wish the combat were a little more beefy.  It appears that aside from a few varieties of splicers and big daddies, there isn't much more to kill.

[TheOtherBelmont]

Can't wait.  Finishing up Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged again tomorrow, which I'd been rereading for the occasion, so I'm all set.

Not to go off topic too much, but I just did a little research on that book and it looks very interesting, I will have to check it out.  Did they draw inspiration from this novel for the game or something?

[Quemaqua]

K-Man: Well, I mean... that's the plot.  It isn't supposed to have aliens and monsters, it has crazy mutated people.  I thought the combat was fine.  I've seen videos that demonstrate some pretty decent AI, but the demo has almost entirely constrained areas with little room for movement.  Once you threw a couple ranged combat guys and some cover into the mix, they performed pretty well, but there were only a couple spots where they could do that.  I felt like the combat felt solid in general though, just didn't have a lot of variety because there were only a few weapons, and it was stuff we'd seen all over the place before in previews and such.  I think the full game will fix those problems nicely.

I guess I can sort of understand wanting more things to kill, because as gamers we always want more and more stuff to fry in more and more ways, but I don't expect that it's going to bother me in this case.  I need it to stay grounded so it keeps within the game's immersive elements.

Belmont: Oh yeah, it's *heavily* inspired by it.  It's a very good and interesting book in its own right, one that has me on both sides of the issue constantly, which I guess is partly why I love it.  I both agree and disagree with virtually everyone.  Obviously there's some overstatement in terms of heroism being presented and some of the villains seem a little bit overly comic, but when you look at today's political landscape it's difficult not to cringe at how accurate some of their whining is.  Rand's philosophy is a sort of hyper-pride in self worth, a thing that's all about working hard and working for YOURSELF, not for anyone else.  "Give" is not in her vocabulary or in the vocabularies of her characters.  I feel that it goes much too far in that regard, but I also find that some of what constantly bugs me about overt liberalism and those who want to dish out and those who want to ACCEPT handouts from the government is some of the same stuff that her ideologies address.  I believe strongly that you should work for yourself and make your own way, and I've always been very against most assistance programs.  So I'm stuck in the middle on that issue.  Rand was also a staunch atheist, so obviously I don't get along with her there, either.

One of the biggest threads I think you'll see is that Andrew Ryan, the founder of Rapture (and another A.R., eh?) has a very similar background to Rand.  From Wikipedia:

Rand was twelve at the time of the Russian revolution of 1917, and her family life was disrupted by the rise of the Bolshevik party. Her father's pharmacy was confiscated by the Soviets, and the family fled to Crimea to recover financially. When Crimea fell to the Bolsheviks in 1921, Rand burned her diary, which contained vitriolic anti-Soviet writings.[5] Rand then returned to St. Petersburg ("Petrograd") to attend university.[7] She studied philosophy and history at the University of Petrograd. Her major literary discoveries were the works of Edmond Rostand, Friedrich Schiller and Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Soviet background that basically fucks your life so bad you become a hyper-capitalist.  Objectivism, Rand's philosophy, is based on a lot of that, and this plays a *heavy* role in BioShock from what I can tell.  The difference is that instead of the BUILDING UP of it all like we see in Atlas Shrugged, BioShock tells a story of its complete destruction.  Whether or not this is a philosophical statement from Levine I don't know, as there may well be stuff in the game that suggests that this Randian utopia *could* have worked in other circumstances (I've heard there's some content to suggest this).  So... yeah.  Who knows.  But case in point, reading Atlas will definitely have an impact on your enjoyment of the plot to at least some degree, I think.  Even just with the demo I felt a heavy presence, and not in a cheap or stupid way.  It felt really nice to have those allusions in place.

Also, it seems there's some Dostoevsky influence in there as well.  I know the IGN review mentioned Crime and Punishment, at least, but I think I'll have to dig into the full game before I can really confirm any more literary threads other than the obvious.

EDIT - Sorry, wanted to add that last statement and fix some weirdness in the last paragraph.  I'm fucking tired from editing this podcast...

EDIT x2 - Okay, just wanted to add that I watched the Gamespot video review and that was a bit better than the text review.  Shows some stuff you might want to miss though, so view judiciously.  It also shows the hitching problem Gerstmann was talking about, which does indeed seem a bit strange.  Stranger still that I've heard zero other reports of it.  In the end Gerstmann feels the combat just isn't quite beefy enough (mostly because as guys get stronger toward the end of the game, they don't look bigger or more menacing, so you feel like you're just doing less damage) and... well, that seems to be the main complaint.  It seems a little hard to buy that watching the video, though, because the combat looks great, and the PC version's slightly more frenetic pace may help make up for this also (as well as get rid of that hitching problem he talked about... though I don't see proof that it's going to show up on a lot of people's 360s).  In other words, I think Gerstmann may be attempting to give his usual hardboiled review in the interests of seeming objective, when much of what he's talking about is at best subjective (taste), and at worst just... wrong.  But I won't say he's wrong as I don't have the game yet, and his niggles are fairly minor regardless of their context.  Either way, it was a nice video review.  But as I said, watch yourself if you watch it.  There isn't anything directly spoilery, just a couple short scenes you might want to be surprised to find in the game (a couple location-based things where there's something shocking on screen, and one of the Little Sister scenes that another video review spoiled already).

[JacksRag(e)]

Just picked up my LE edition at Gamestop.  It's such a pretty package.  And that Big Daddy figurine just oozes quality.  It's got a lot of heft to it and is just awesome.  Installing the game right now, so just waiting now.  Finally, it's here.

[idolminds]

Interesting, Bioshocks widescreen is just 4:3 cropped.

[iPPi]

I'm grabbing this game after work today.  Only 2.5 hours before I get it!

[idolminds]

And you'll still get it before the Steam buyers. It seems the game just unlocked, theres still like 20% of the game to download on top of unencrypting the stuff the people already preloaded, and of course the servers are going dog slow because theres lots of people doing all this at the same time.

It makes me smile, knowing those people could have walked into CC at 10am and had the game $10 cheaper.

[JacksRag(e)]

Just played a good hour or so.  And I'm really liking it so far.  It's got this great tension and paranoia.  I'm almost afraid to turn around in the game half the time.  It's a beautiful game, too.  So very pretty.  And again, maybe it's just me, but the load screens that do pop up are obscenely long.  Don't know if its my system or if it's just on the PC version, but the loading is nearly two minutes sometimes.

[Quemaqua]

It's gotta' be your system.  I haven't installed my copy yet (just got home, doing so now), but in the demo my load times were maybe 25 seconds.

That's weird about the widescreen, too.  I'm almost glad for once that I'm playing it in standard format.

[ScaryTooth]

I've been playing for a solid hour and a half, and the game is freaking dope as hell.

[MysterD]

MyD's been playing this for at least 3½ hours here.

Authentication Annoyance
Biggest annoyance for MyD so far is this -- yup, I had to try to authentic 3 times before it ACTUALLY went through (around 5pm or so, Eastern time). Same serial code and everything, each time; didn't change it or nothing -- I just hit back and then submit a few times and it finally connected. Weird, eh???

Performance on my rig
1024x768's a waste for me. Tried it on here -- not happening, guys. If I'm lucky, 30 frames w/ most stuff OFF. Normally below that -- around 15 frames, as a low; and that was often. Nope, not worth my time. Especially since it don't look much different than 800x600 on here.

I'm glad this runs a hell of a lot better than R6: Vegas does on my rig -- see my Specs for my rig. In Bioshock, I can run the game in 800x600 -- some of the bells and whistles are on, some are off. Framerate is anywhere from 25-50 FPS, depending on what the hell's going on on-screen -- if it's heavy w/ explosions and enemies, expect around 25 or so. If nothing's happening, anywhere above 30-50 FPS.

All of this is w/ the last WHQL Drivers, not them Beta Bioshock drivers. Sorry, but I think I'll pass on "Beta" drivers -- I'll install the next WHQL Drivers, if I have to. Right now, I'm happy w/ Bioshock as is.

The Game
Presentation is outstanding. The graphics, the art decor -- all that artsy stuff, is outstanding. I love the look of the game; the whole package is great. Yeah, and I ain't even running in 1024x768. Color me freakin' impressed.

The sound effects and the voice-acting are also absolutely outstanding.

The Big Daddies -- oh, man. Those bastards are as rough -- and as tough -- as nails!!! Some nasty fights w/ those things.

I like how w/ The Little Sisters, you're given the option to Harvest them or Rescue them. Pretty cool stuff. I'm sure that'll probably matter later on, some time later in the game, I bet...

The gameplay, the upgrading of my character -- all of that cool stuff is well done, too.

The controls are like your usual first person shooter. But, even w/ the inclusions of being able to throw special abilities/magic -- the Plastids, could've been a nightmare. Nope, not at all. It's so seemless. The idea of switching from Plastids to Guns/Wrench (and vice versa) w/ the Right Click (by default) -- too sweet. That's all I can say there. You can really pull off some awesome combos, by quick-clicking and then left-clicking (by default, that's your Fire command), to say the least.

Oh, Telekinesis rules! Gravity gun from Half-Life 2 got nothing on THIS!

So far, the story's very interesting -- and there have been some awesome moments that I've encountered so far....Some moments that had me actually say "Holy shit" or jump up a little bit out of my chair. Been some awesome combat match-ups, too....

Awesome combat fights -- Medical Ward and Big Daddy Talk In Spoilers Below...

(click to show/hide)

I'm thinking of the Black-Out near the Doctor's Office in the Medical Area and the Splicers kept coming at you, and you can barely see as the lights flicker on and off 'til you kill 'em all. Awesome.

I'm thinking of the first moment of fighting a Big Daddy.

I'm thinking of the battle w/ the Doctor that was giving someone an unplanned face-lift surgery, after he was done giving them the procedure they wanted.

This game's flat-out awesome.

I am heading to Neptune area next, which is where my last AutoSave was...must go play more....

[Quemaqua]

All of this is w/ the last WHQL Drivers, not them Beta Bioshock drivers. Sorry, but I think I'll pass on "Beta" drivers -- I'll install the next WHQL Drivers, if I have to. Right now, I'm happy w/ Bioshock as is.

No offense, but you're an idiot.  "Beta" means nothing.  Just get them!  You're sacrificing performance for zero reason.  Seriously.  With your rig, you want to squeeze every drop you can get!

[MysterD]

No offense, but you're an idiot.  "Beta" means nothing.  Just get them!  You're sacrificing performance for zero reason.  Seriously.  With your rig, you want to squeeze every drop you can get!

Que, is it really *that* much of a performance increase...?

[Quemaqua]

I have no idea, but since they apparently delayed the demo for them, I'd venture to guess yes.  Besides, why the fuck wouldn't you?  It'll take you five seconds and a reboot.