Topic: The Official BioShock thread.

[Jedi]

I've hit an issue where I save my progress but when I load that saved game it didn't actually save my progress?? I've lost 2 hours on this thinking I had saved my progress but the game just isn't updating the saved file?! Has anyone heard about this or encountered it? I googled it and didn't find much other than one post with no replied. I'm apply the update hope it fixes the problem 

[scottws]

Nope, I never had any trouble with the game really.  Well, it did crash once within my first hour of playing.  I thought maybe it was taxing my videocard and overheating (it is pretty hot where my computer is right now).  But I spent spells in the game for much longer than that since, in hotter air.  So yeah, the one crash was the only problem I had.  It didn't even so much as stutter.

[Cobra951]

I've hit an issue where I save my progress but when I load that saved game it didn't actually save my progress?? I've lost 2 hours on this thinking I had saved my progress but the game just isn't updating the saved file?! Has anyone heard about this or encountered it? I googled it and didn't find much other than one post with no replied. I'm apply the update hope it fixes the problem 

Did you get disconnected from Live?  If you do, the date on your system might revert to 2005 or something, placing your saves at the bottom of the list, so when you "continue", you're really going back to an old save.  Set the date/time on your system while disconnected from Live.  That seems to solve the problem.

Edit:  Oh, and if I'm right, you should be able to load up the saves with the old dates.  (Bottom of the list.)  I'm also assuming you're playing on the 360, of course.  For PC, I wouldn't know.

[Cobra951]

Scott, the thing about SS2 is that, while the difficulty was certainly higher, there was no random respawning of enemies.  This actually caused some heated debate.  I liked it, a lot of others did not.  Anyway, once you clear an area, it stays clear.  You should be able to chip away at the difficulties until they're gone for good.

I've played Bioshock multiple times now.  It has become some sort of obsession.  There's a lot of richness in this universe, and I keep finding new things, as well as getting the whole picture more clear in my mind.

(click to show/hide)

Ryan wanted to create a world where he could practice his ideals without intrusion.  Objectivism pretty much defines those.  It's roughly pure capitalism without any regulation or oversight from government, without encumbrances from any social agendas, and without any of what Ryan calls "petty morality"--no religious code of behavior to get in the way.  He's fanatical about it, or became so in the process, and ends up rationalizing a lot of crazy actions in the name of preserving his ideals against increasing opposition.  For objectivism to work, pure reason must be the driving force behind it.  When humans, not gods, are at the helm, their emotional frailties eventually muck the whole thing up.  (Communism has very similar problems.)  Fontaine is a consummate crook, a very smart one at that.  He plays a long con, years in the making, to take Ryan's world for himself.   (I submit that, without a moral code, there is nothing wrong with this.  It's just strong competition in a Darwinian system where all that matters is who is the strongest.  There are hostile takeovers in the corporate world constantly.) 

You, the player, are the result of genetic engineering, headed by Dr Suchong.  You are only a few years old, but you grew and were indoctrinated at an accelerated rate.  You were removed from Rapture, presumably to hide and protect you from Ryan.  You were brought back as Ryan's assassin, and there was nothing you could do to prevent that.  "Would you kindly go to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch."  You could not resist this command, or even realize it was a command.  After the fact, the German woman doctor figured out a way to undo the programming, and after that, you could act of your own volition.  Your old master tries to destroy you when he knows he lost control, and you turn the tables on him.  The end, with the little sisters as the only story element you really control.

As Que said, there are multiple ways to play the game.  But once I figure out the best ways, it's hard for me to play it some way which I already know to be more painful.  One thing I've gotten much better at is setting up the splicers to get mowed down by security machines.  Last time I protected the lab in Arcadia, all I did was repeatedly project the target dummy into the middle of the room with the hacked security camera and turret.  I just stood back and watched the action, only defending occasionally against the Houdinis.  Sometimes they tried to heal at the hacked station, and scream out their last.  Too entertaining.

[scottws]

Yeah, I know all about the middle part of your spoiler.  I did get that much.  Also the talk about Fontaine himself.  I guess I need to read up on Objectivism to really understand what was going on in the game.

[Cobra951]

Scott, you may find this at Wikipedia useful.  You can go from there as far into it as you care to.

[Jedi]

Did you get disconnected from Live?  If you do, the date on your system might revert to 2005 or something, placing your saves at the bottom of the list, so when you "continue", you're really going back to an old save.  Set the date/time on your system while disconnected from Live.  That seems to solve the problem.

Edit:  Oh, and if I'm right, you should be able to load up the saves with the old dates.  (Bottom of the list.)  I'm also assuming you're playing on the 360, of course.  For PC, I wouldn't know.

Oh sweet, I put it back on Live to get the Sonic game and usre enough the saved games were there at the bottom of the list. Cheers man.

[Quemaqua]

Just remember that Objectivism isn't communism, it's basically the polar opposite to the nth degree.  It's *supposed* to be about earning your own way and keeping what you earn, giving nothing to anyone but yourself for the simple reason that life works better when everyone can take pride in what they do and can motivate their own progression through the reward that naturally comes from hard work and talent.  Maybe a little more prior knowledge on the subject would be more helpful than I thought initially, I dunno'.

Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.  It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.  At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.

[MysterD]

Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.

Andrew Ryan has a quote that he says that he set out to build to impossible. If I recall, it's in one of his audios or in one of the load screen quotes -- I can't recll.

It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.

I agree -- Bioshock wasn't out to re-create the real world, to some degree. It's pure fantasy.

At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.

Agreed.

[Cobra951]

Oh sweet, I put it back on Live to get the Sonic game and usre enough the saved games were there at the bottom of the list. Cheers man.

You know, they could have avoided this problem so easily.  All they needed was a unique id for the current game and a timestamp of how long the game has been played, in the save files.  That way "continue" always means "continue" regardless of any external timekeeping.  Here these guys did so much godlike programming, and they go ahead and miss such a basic little thing.  LOL

Just remember that Objectivism isn't communism, it's basically the polar opposite to the nth degree.  It's *supposed* to be about earning your own way and keeping what you earn, giving nothing to anyone but yourself for the simple reason that life works better when everyone can take pride in what they do and can motivate their own progression through the reward that naturally comes from hard work and talent.  Maybe a little more prior knowledge on the subject would be more helpful than I thought initially, I dunno'.

Oh, and as for Rapture itself... yeah, I think most of us had to deal with the fact that it's rather conceptually impossible from the start.  It's just a neat place to set a videogame, and while a little farfetched, I don't see it as any worse than crazy space stations or the underworld or whatever other fantasy setting you might come across.  At least it's pretty and has enough inspiration behind it to generate discussions about social ideologies, which is more than you can say for many games.

I know they are polar opposites.  Maybe my comment about communism having like problems gave the impression that I didn't.  Any system which relies on a few people rising way above the rest is subject to inevitable corruption and eventual downfall, because there is nothing innately superior about those people.  They have the same human tendencies and frailties as other normal humans.  So when they act irrationally and out of unbridled self interest, to the detriment of whatever gets in the way, they end up mucking things up beyond repair.  Communism, in practice so far, has the same problem.  Only a few people are in power; everyone else is a peasant.  This is the incurable flaw in both objectivism and communism.  A system of checks and balances is needed, which even the most powerful cannot circumvent.  Once they figure out methods of circumvention, as in the USA right now, the future of a formerly great and free society is in question.

The thing about Rapture is that it's set in a history period with which we're all familiar (and at least one of us personally familiar, barely).  When you have some space station off into the future, it's easy to assume that the technology somehow developed to cover the premise.  It's not so easy with Rapture, not that I've dwelled too much on this, or allowed it to ruin my immersion in the game world.

[scottws]

One thing I found interesting about Rapture was the time period and the architectural style.  It uses art deco, which was a 20's to 30's thing.  Rapture wasn't founded until the 40's, wasn't it?

Edit: That's not a complaint, just an observation.  Like I said, I loved the art design and the art deco styling of the game.

[Quemaqua]

You're right, actually.  I can't remember the exact justification for this.  I think some of the architectural stuff was supposed to be inspired by Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, but other than that I just have a vague recollection of Ken Levine talking about some of what he thought Ryan's inspirations were and why the art deco thing fit his idealism in some way.  There was logic behind it, I just can't remember.

And Cobra, sorry... I never quote things and it always ends up being my downfall.  My comments about Communism were more directed to Scott's earlier thoughts on the "great chain" and his confusion about the ideology.

[MysterD]

CliffyB of Epic LOVES Bioshock.

Bioshock is hands down my game of the year. That's right, I said it. I was looking forward to coming home from work and firing this bad boy up throughout the entire experience. Last time that happened was RE4 and God of War(s.) I'm not just saying this because it uses our technology or because I'm friends with some of the team members, no, it is in fact a phenomenal blend of well paced horror, narrative, action and meta RPG moments.

I think so far, it's b/t Bioshock and STALKER for me, for GOTY.....so far....

The best part about the game is the fact that the majority of the narrative is what I like to call, simply "passive narrative." There's a recording on a desk, there's a painting or a picture on the wall - you want to ignore them as a gamer, fine, you won't get any story. But you know what? Few people would ignore them and if a person is that determined to undermine the coolness of their interactive experience they're going to find a way. Hell you can walk out of a movie or eject a DVD if you don't want to find out what happens in a film.

Yeah, so if you just want to kill stuff and ignore the narrative, go right ahead.....which is sweet.

Though, given the famous catch phrase.....

(click to show/hide)

You might be forced to watch the "Would You Kindly" moment....

...Or, can you skip that by hitting Escape at all??

Hmmm, I am gonna have to see, once I get there again...

Bioshock spoiler from CliffyB, pertaining to the "famous" catch phrase in Bioshock....

(click to show/hide)

Also, the "Would you kindly" reveal moment was pure "Usual Suspects" - top moment in gaming history, bar none. And to then find the audio log of the woman kindly snapping the dog's neck... absolutely amazing work. It's that kind of work that separates and elevates this medium above all others and goes on to prove that videogaming is the coolest thing to come along since the Heineken Keg Can.

The "Would you kindly" Twist was awesome, to say the least...

Now would you kindly go and pre-order Unreal Tournament 3 already?

So, anybody who was not planning to buy UT3 decide to buy it, given what CliffyB just said?

[Xessive]

Hey all, for anyone who got Bioshock for PC how bad is the activation?

From what I'm hearing so far, you have a limited number of times to actually install the game. When you install the game and activate you use an "install token" and to retrieve the token you have to properly uninstall the game. You have a total of 5 tokens I think (used to be 2 until people complained). At least that's how I understood it.

I mean what if my system crashes and I have to format, or for whatever reason I am unable to properly uninstall the game to retrieve the token, then what I lose it?! WTF?!!

Ok, now this is a major deterrent for me. I'm still seriously considering buying the game, but if they're gonna limit me on how often I install the game I'm just gonna pass.

Seriously, if this is their idea of preventing piracy it's BS. Because this discourages me from buying the product. Why penalize the customers?? They're making buying and owning games more difficult and infuriating!

So, back to my original query, is it really that bad for the Bioshock activation?

[Pugnate]

No you just e-mail them with a pic of your game with the cd key and they replenish your token. Many have claimed that it has been done in 24 hours.

Personally I'd say go for it. If you lose a 'token',  just e-mail them while you have the use of the other four 'tokens'.

[Xessive]

No you just e-mail them with a pic of your game with the cd key and they replenish your token. Many have claimed that it has been done in 24 hours.

Personally I'd say go for it. If you lose a 'token',  just e-mail them while you have the use of the other four 'tokens'.

That's still retarded though. It's not even a multiplayer game! (or is it?)

There seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel:

BioShock activation will be removed in the future

Ken Levine, Lead Designer for BioShock, has revealed that the game’s copy protection will be removed at some point in the future.

“We will unset the online activation at some point in the future – we’re not talking about when,” said Levine, in an interview with Joystiq. “This activation is for the early period of the game when it’s really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it.”

Later in the interview, he admitted that 2K had made a mistake with the number of installations allowed and that the number of installs will be increased. “Basically the copy protection, everything about how it works is exactly what you'll see in other titles like Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Command & Conquer 3, and Harry Potter.

“The only thing we have is online activation now. But that just does a check with a server and validates the installation. Right now we have a set number of installs and, frankly, it’s too low. We screwed up. We analysed where we were and we’ll up the number of installs.”

He understands gamers’ frustrations when they were unable to activate their legitimate copies of the game. “People can't activate their key, I dig that people are pissed off, and I understand it. Here we are day one of the European launch and day four of the American and we're working every single day working on these issues. I believe people deserve to play the game.”

Levine also acknowledged that there were concerns about the anti-piracy measures 2K Games had taken, but reassured gamers that “there’s nothing wacky going on there, at some point we’ll move back from online activation. If people want to play BioShock ten years from now, they’ll be able to play it. We have a commitment from 2K that that is going to happen and we'll hold them to that commitment and they're serious about it, we'll make that happen.”

[Quemaqua]

Ken said from the beginning that they'll remove it eventually, but he said they couldn't say when.  And it really isn't that bad.  Do you *really* think you're going to use up all those installs anyway?  Logically, most people won't come anywhere near it.  I've played the fuck out of the game and have used up a whopping one install.  And if you're the unluckiest son of a bitch in the world and your system crashes 5 times and leaves you out in the cold, the support people are supposedly fine with giving you extra unlocks.  I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?  But I think most people that have actually needed to get the keys refreshed or whatever just called them.

Anyway, it isn't that bad.  Yes it sucks as a method of protection, and ideologically I hate it, but like most ideological issues, it really isn't bad.  This is no Steam.

[Xessive]

Ken said from the beginning that they'll remove it eventually, but he said they couldn't say when.  And it really isn't that bad.  Do you *really* think you're going to use up all those installs anyway?  Logically, most people won't come anywhere near it.  I've played the fuck out of the game and have used up a whopping one install.  And if you're the unluckiest son of a bitch in the world and your system crashes 5 times and leaves you out in the cold, the support people are supposedly fine with giving you extra unlocks.  I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?  But I think most people that have actually needed to get the keys refreshed or whatever just called them.

Anyway, it isn't that bad.  Yes it sucks as a method of protection, and ideologically I hate it, but like most ideological issues, it really isn't bad.  This is no Steam.

It's true that it's not as 'severe' as Steam. Honestly more than anything else I was just worried that this would somewhere along the way become a standard; eventually becoming something like "retail allows 2 installs, while the collector's edition allows 5 installs!" or some such gimmicks.

[scottws]

I'm just worried that it's going to turn into something like "This game is good for 2 years.  If you want to play it after that you have to buy it again."

I'm not too worried about using up the install tokens in Bioshock's case, though I don't like the practice.

[Pugnate]

That's still retarded though. It's not even a multiplayer game! (or is it?)

There seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel:

BioShock activation will be removed in the future

I know it is retarded, but the PC gaming world is in a really retarded position at the moment. During a recent survey iD found out that 1/3rd of the people who played Doom 3 hadn't bought it legally. Basically three times as many people had played the game and enjoyed it as the sales figures reflected.

Obviously this doesn't mean that those very people would have bought Doom III, but surely a significant bulk would have ended up purchasing had their been no sure way of enjoying the return to the Doom franchise?

I know its retarded, and it really really sucks, but personally, I am for it.

I buy most of my games, and sometimes it really hurts to see people on Paksitani forums boasting about paying a dollar for the same game that I paid 30-45 for.

Is the Bioshock copy protection shackle working? I'd say it is. There is still no working crack for the game, and from the hints given by the developers, the game is selling extremely well on the PC.

Just look at the sales on eBay. The CEs are going for well over $120. I was trying to score one, but am not willing to shell that much on a CE.

“We will unset the online activation at some point in the future – we’re not talking about when,” said Levine, in an interview with Joystiq. “This activation is for the early period of the game when it’s really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it.”

Yea in six months!

Personally I am happy with this so far.

I haven't even heard of them requiring anything other than a phone call.  What Pug said I think was a special circumstance, at least as I recall.  Wasn't that what a PCG guy had to do?

I read some guy on the forum who said he e-mailed them with a pic and it took a day. But the point is that even if you have to wait a bit to get one token back, don't you still have the rest.

I know it can be inconvenient, but I think that if it stops piracy, then maybe its OK.

I'm just worried that it's going to turn into something like "This game is good for 2 years.  If you want to play it after that you have to buy it again."

That would be worrisome, but I doubt it will happen. I am sure that in a year's time the game will not require activation. Once the game drops from full price.

[Cobra951]

My understanding is that the activation is fully cracked already, and has been for some weeks now.  I can't verify that personally.

It's not that I don't understand the rampant piracy problem on PCs.  I do.  But I have problems with the approach the industry has taken to tackle it. I've been vocal before about the grossly inflated loss figures they quote.  There isn't enough money in the hands of the people who play games without buying them to justify anywhere near those numbers.  The fact is that, in lieu of piracy, most of them would do without, or resort to full-blown attempted theft (e.g., shoplifting).  No justification, but without honesty, there is no moral high ground for anyone.

My other main objection is that the anti-piracy methods the industry has come up with lately do a hell of a lot more to alienate honest buyers than to discourage pirates.  If you are going to end up throwing the baby out with the bath water, you may as well let him go dirty to begin with.  They may yet strike a good balance, or so I hope.

On a less contentious note, I found this article at Gamespot a couple of days ago.  It's another conversation with Ken Levine, now that Bioshock has been out for a while.  Interesting read, although nothing shocking (bio or otherwise).

[Xessive]

I see your point Pug, however I maintain that if devs insist on making simply owning a game difficult it's going to be a major deterrent; possibly leading to the death of the PC as a major gaming platform (or at least fainting, I don't think it can ever "die").

Now that I'm assured that the activation will be removed at some point in the future I will go out and buy Bioshock. I think the only place that ahs it here is the Virgin Megastore.

[MysterD]

It's true that it's not as 'severe' as Steam. Honestly more than anything else I was just worried that this would somewhere along the way become a standard; eventually becoming something like "retail allows 2 installs, while the collector's edition allows 5 installs!" or some such gimmicks.

First day, I put my code in to activate it. Didn't work. Three tries w/ the same code, then it finally went through -- all w/ the same code, too. So, yeah -- I'm guessin' everyone was hittin' the server at once, trying to activate it. That was annoying as hell.

It is very annoying, that the original number of installs was 2 installs; it was ridiculous and silly. Especially if you lose an install b/c your PC crashes on some bullshit.

5 installs makes more sense. Some people have multiple machines -- some will install it on their PC desktop and their laptop. Maybe even transfer their save files b/t PC's, so they can play it at home and on the go.

To gain an install number back and get a "refund" b/c you "uninstall the game", I have to uninstall it WHILE I'm ONLINE, too. Annoying -- but at least I can get a "Refund" on my number of installs by uninstalling.

I just hope that they live up to the promise to remove the "activation" when sales drop in the game.

I just hope Activation don't get any worse....Two Worlds has some activation procedures, as well....And it's annoying, as well...I'll put it in one of my Two Worlds threads....They do theirs a little different....it doesn't do install number checks, it checks for number of hardware changes...

[Xessive]

First day, I put my code in to activate it. Didn't work. Three tries w/ the same code, then it finally went through -- all w/ the same code, too. So, yeah -- I'm guessin' everyone was hittin' the server at once, trying to activate it. That was annoying as hell.

It is very annoying, that the original number of installs was 2 installs; it was ridiculous and silly. Especially if you lose an install b/c your PC crashes on some bullshit.

5 installs makes more sense. Some people have multiple machines -- some will install it on their PC desktop and their laptop. Maybe even transfer their save files b/t PC's, so they can play it at home and on the go.

To gain an install number back and get a "refund" b/c you "uninstall the game", I have to uninstall it WHILE I'm ONLINE, too. Annoying -- but at least I can get a "Refund" on my number of installs by uninstalling.

I just hope that they live up to the promise to remove the "activation" when sales drop in the game.

I just hope Activation don't get any worse....Two Worlds has some activation procedures, as well....And it's annoying, as well...I'll put it in one of my Two Worlds threads....They do theirs a little different....it doesn't do install number checks, it checks for number of hardware changes...

Ah so kinda like how Windows XP started out?

Now all I gotta do is pick up Bioshock, so it's only a matter of time. I'm curious about upcoming patches.

[Pugnate]

Well I was looking on the pirated bay and apparently it is a 'bitch to crack' but has been done. Looks like it is a fairly tedious process, but has been done. 

[Xessive]

Picked up Bioshock! Beautiful game.

Though I have a little problem.

Before I install any game I normally defrag and restart. I completed my ritual procedure, I installed the game, activated, and launched right into it. Played till I beat the first boss. I thought I'd ration my gameplay time and I quit.

I decided to restart just to refresh the system. Now the system won't load into Windows. I get the Windows loading screen, but right after it just goes to a black screen with the mouse cursor. Nothing happens. No logon, nothing.

Tried researching it online but the only apparent solution is a format and reinstall of Windows. Te shitty part is I can't backup any of my files on C. The stupid Recovery Console won't let me copy anything that's not in C:\Windows directory. The only thing I'm concerned about is a few of my game saves. The only reason those are on C: is because the games now all save in "My Documents" instead of their respective folders.

Anyway I'm gonna go wipe it clean now.

[Xessive]

Forgot to ask! How exactly do I go about retrieving the install token for BioShock? I'm asking because 2KGames doesn't seem to have a support site for BioShock (PC), only Xbox 360.

[Pugnate]

This is incredible... of all the times your system had to crash, why now?

[Xessive]

This is incredible... of all the times your system had to crash, why now?

No idea man. As far as I can discern it's not a hardware problem. Safe mode won't even work. Apparently the only solution available (according to tech forums) is format and reinstall Windows.

Anyway, I just re-setup the system and the first thing I ddi was install BioShock. I rebooted and everything seems to be working fine. The crap part is I lost all my savegames and all my bookmarks. I'm more miffed about my bookmarks because I basically had a whole library. I don't mind playing through Oblivion again, and NWN2 I maya s well wait for the expansion before I get back into it.

Hehe this was a pretty good test of patience and discipline while I'm fasting I didn't cuss once!

[MysterD]

Ah so kinda like how Windows XP started out?

Basically, yeah.

[MysterD]

New WHQL NVidia drivers 163.71 for Win XP users -- basically, meant for Bioshock, Quake Wars: ET, HG: London, Crysis, and World In Conflict.

[Xessive]

New WHQL NVidia drivers 163.71 for Win XP users -- basically, meant for Bioshock, Quake Wars: ET, HG: London, Crysis, and World In Conflict.

Sweet I've been using 163.71 beta, so I'm sure the WHQL will fix a few things.

By the way, for some reason the beta driver disabled all 16:10 ratio screen resolutions except the native 1680x1050 for all my games! The only resolutions I can use are all the 4:3 (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960) the one 5:4 (1280x1024), a 16:9 (1600x900), and my monitor's native 16:10 (1680x1050). Whereas before I would usually play at 1280x800 (just for the few extra frames I can squeeze out). So I hope the WHQL driver will have amended that.

[MysterD]

I love how they mention games that ain't even out yet are supported by this driver; heh! I think that's the first time I've seen that!

[Xessive]

I love how they mention games that ain't even out yet are supported by this driver; heh! I think that's the first time I've seen that!

It's good to show the initiative. I've seen it before though, it's just much more common since DirectX 10 was announced.

I'm actually being tempted to switch to Vista just to take advantage of DX10, but my voice of reason tells me to wait till Service Pack 1 at least.

[Pugnate]

Xessive do what I did! Dual boot. It is a very simple process.

[Xessive]

Xessive do what I did! Dual boot. It is a very simple process.

I'm contemplating it, but I'd rather just have one OS. Either way I'm just gonna wait until SP1 before I even consider Vista.

By the way, according to some comparison benchmarks I saw, nVidia and ATi have improved their Vista drivers so much in the last 7 months that the performance is currently on par with XP.

[Pugnate]

I have a two games installed on Vista, and they run faster and more stable than on XP. Well the main reason I had to install them on Vista was that they were giving me headaches on XP.

[Xessive]

I have a two games installed on Vista, and they run faster and more stable than on XP. Well the main reason I had to install them on Vista was that they were giving me headaches on XP.

Which games, might I ask?

Hehe man, now that I've played a good chunk of BioShock I can totally see Warren Spector losing his frickin' mind! hahaha "What?! This is exactly what I was trying to do with DX:IW!!" It is a major slap in DX:IW's face

[MysterD]

Which games, might I ask?

Hehe man, now that I've played a good chunk of BioShock I can totally see Warren Spector losing his frickin' mind! hahaha "What?! This is exactly what I was trying to do with DX:IW!!" It is a major slap in DX:IW's face

If anything, Spector w/ Deus Ex: IW was trying to be like graphically-pimped out version of Irrational's System Shock 2...

[Pugnate]

Xessive they are both sports titles.