Author Topic: The Official BioShock thread.  (Read 143779 times)

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #480 on: Friday, August 15, 2008, 10:14:36 AM »
Ok, I'm fairly sure a few of you will get a laugh out of this.  I caught this game on clearance for 25 bucks yesterday and decided to give it another go.  I've really gone through so far and tried to see what the developer wanted to accomplish with this game.  I still think the game has some significant shortfalls (mainly based around the simplicity and repetition of the combat), but being about a year removed from the release of the game (and the hype) I'm actually enjoying the game for what it is rather than for what I expected/wanted.  So far it's been a better experience.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #481 on: Friday, August 15, 2008, 08:37:24 PM »
Im not sure what you mean by the combat being repetitious since I think its more dynamic than most games, but Im glad your finally getting into it.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #482 on: Friday, August 15, 2008, 09:56:36 PM »
I'm glad too.  It was probably wise to just wait and step back from the hype.  As much as I did really love the game, I agree that the hype machine was in full force prior to release, and it was overkill.  For me, the game did manage to mostly live up to it, but it was still overkill.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #483 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 05:38:00 AM »
I thought the Bioshock combat with the switching b/t magic and weapons was awesome.

If you were looking for a shooter here, wrong game. Bioshock's a mix of both -- and I thought it did BOTH very well in this first-person action genre (with some RPG elements).

Bioshock turned out great. One of my fav's of all time.

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #484 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 09:54:11 AM »
Im not sure what you mean by the combat being repetitious since I think its more dynamic than most games, but Im glad your finally getting into it.

I feel that way partially due to the inherent lack of variety in the enemies I face.  I mean realistically I've only faced 5 types thus-far.  The gun toting splicer, spider splicer, regular splicer, bouncer big daddy, and the other big daddy.  Realistically you have two types of enemies with various weapons. 

Also, even though I've collected tons of plasmids, shock + wrench is still the best way to dispatch splicers.  I have other methods at my disposal, but why use them when they're not as effective and in some cases expend more eve?

The game may very well open up later on, but so far that's been my experience with the combat.


Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #485 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:00:20 AM »
Yeah, so your complaint is not about the actual combat itself.

It's about the lack of variety of enemies.
Point taken.


Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #486 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:03:00 AM »
Yeah, so your complaint is not about the actual combat itself.

It's about the lack of variety of enemies.
Point taken.



Well, I think the shock+wrench complaint lies more in the combat department, but lack of variety is definitely the larger complaint

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #487 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:07:27 AM »
Well, I think the shock+wrench complaint lies more in the combat department, but lack of variety is definitely the larger complaint
I think as the game gets along further and further, you'll have more abilities and combos to pull off for weapons and magic, which is really when the game can get quite dynamic in combat. Not only that, but you'll get more and more upgrading for weapons and other things, once you move along.

But yeah, I wish the game had more enemy types, too. Not a huge complaint for me, since the AI can be quite nasty, actually -- especially on the harder difficulties.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #488 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:42:42 AM »
I dunno'.  In any military shooter, what variety is there?  You kill dudes with guns.  I mean, in any game that's at all realistic, you kill people with guns.  Or maybe people with knives.  I mean, there's not a lot else to go on unless you start adding monsters or whatever to the mix.  They probably could have added a few more enemy types to the game, but I really don't think it would have made a ton of difference.  It would have just been another dude with another gun/plasmid/spell/whatever.  Granted, a few more wouldn't have hurt, if only for the *mental* effects of having variety, mechanical effects aside, but it still didn't bother me all that much.

I don't agree that the shock+wrench combo is the best, though.  Sure, it's great if you get all the upgrades for those, plus all the others that go well with it.  Like the armor upgrades and the defensive shock upgrades.  But if you sit down and work out some other builds, there are plenty of options which are just as effective, including some that combo better with guns instead of the wrench, and others that work much better for larger groups, and others that work better against groups of different kinds of enemies.  I've played through the game a number of times now, and I think there's plenty on the table in that regard.  Sometimes the combinations just aren't as obvious since the game doesn't spell any of them out for you other than the initial shock+wrench combo, which I think was a mistake... they shouldn't have put "hints" anywhere in the game about plasmid use, not even in the beginning for tutorial purposes.  We pander to people too fucking much these days, and those (shock+wrench, using shock on water, lighting oil on fire, etc.) should have been discovered by the player, not dropped in their lap.  But seriously, there are a lot of other options available if you get creative.  Toward the end of my last game, I didn't even fire weapons at all.  My setup was more or less entirely defensive with a few alternative options in case things went south.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #489 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 10:57:06 AM »
Hopefully the game will open up for me.  I just picked up the camera, so I'm admittedly not too far along.  I really do hope it fleshes out some more.  The plasmid idea is very nifty.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #490 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 11:24:12 AM »
Well, yeah, you aren't too far in.  It does open up more than where you're at.  You'll get more combat options and there's at least one new enemy type coming.  Just try to think outside the box as much as you can, and get creative with what skills you pair together.  And don't worry about conserving Eve too much.  I mean, just have fun with it and throw caution to the wind.  I find the game more enjoyable that way.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #491 on: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 12:25:32 PM »
Shock is good in the early going.  Later, you'll discover much better combinations of plasmids+attacks, and later still, you'll absolutely need them.

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #492 on: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 12:47:43 PM »
Well, a day later and I've made it to the big twist in the game.  Kinda saw it coming, but it was handled pretty well.  Got tons more plasmids now.  Still using just a select few though.  Kinda sucks that you're limited in Adam.  I'd very much like to try out everything.  I'm hoping that a second playthrough lets you keep your accumulated plasmids and slots.

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #493 on: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 04:41:34 PM »
Well, I just finished the game.  Suffice to say that I found it enjoyable (considering I beat it in less than 2 days).  Overall I agree that I initially underestimated the game.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #494 on: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 04:55:33 PM »
It's just too bad the lost boss was so lame.  I think that was my biggest complaint on the whole.  Glad you enjoyed it, though.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #495 on: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 05:09:09 PM »
A bit out of place, i'll agree.  The ending was kind of lame as well.


Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #496 on: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 05:38:00 PM »
I didn't really think it was bad... there just wasn't much of it.  I got the "good" ending, and the essence of it felt appropriate to me, but it wasn't quite the satisfying send-off it should have been.  Still, I don't think I'd have been complaining about it at all had the boss fight been slightly more in line with the rest of the experience.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #497 on: Monday, August 18, 2008, 01:35:52 PM »
I've been digesting my experience with Bioshock all day.  The best way I can describe it is that the whole is much greater than the sum of its parts.  Rapture as a setting was a stroke of genius.  I repeatedly kept thinking throughout that I really would have liked to have seen rapture in its splendor before it all went to hell.  Maybe the sequel will provide that.


Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #498 on: Monday, August 18, 2008, 05:02:57 PM »
That's exactly what I thought after playing, too.  I think I'd really enjoy an adventure game or some such set in a fully-functional Rapture, though obviously that will never happen in a thousand years.  But yeah, I'd love to just spend a day or two there with the place intact.  That would be fascinating.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #499 on: Monday, August 18, 2008, 06:30:23 PM »
That's exactly what I thought after playing, too.  I think I'd really enjoy an adventure game or some such set in a fully-functional Rapture, though obviously that will never happen in a thousand years.  But yeah, I'd love to just spend a day or two there with the place intact.  That would be fascinating.

That does sound very interesting, actually...

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #500 on: Monday, September 01, 2008, 05:25:08 AM »
Levine in his keynote address at PAX 2008 basically talked about his life, growing up as a geek.

Quote
2K Boston head talks about growing up geeky and coming to terms with his nerdy nature during packed Penny Arcade Expo keynote.

SEATTLE, Washington--The 2008 Penny Arcade Expo conference program wasted no time in hitting top speed, as organizers scheduled the Ken Levine keynote address on the first afternoon of the three-day gaming convention. The creative director of 2K Boston and public face of BioShock has been making the convention rounds since the sci-fi first-person shooter shipped last year, keynoting the Develop Conference in the UK earlier this year and telling a packed crowd of his peers how to get audiences to care about their stupid stories in a Game Developers Conference address.

Unlike those events, the crowd for Levine's address was filled with the enthusiastic open-to-the-public PAX brand of rank-and-file gamers. Attendees sported Half-Life headcrab hats proudly as they filed into the cavernous Washington State Convention Center's main theatre. Even the pre-presentation buzz was different, as the crowd chit-chat was accompanied by commercials for Brawndo (The Thirst Mutilator), the Entertainment Consumers Association, and a variety of new and upcoming games.

Levine took the stage half an hour into his one-hour keynote slot, launching straight into his presentation as he talked about growing up a nerd.

"When my parents rolled my character, they didn't get any 18s," Levine joked.

In the late '70s, Levine noticed the kids around him in the seventh grade were into hockey, Rush, drug experimentation, and even gotten to second base. Meanwhile, he was into Spider-Man comics. While the other kids were into Lennon and McCartney, he was into Claremont and Byrne.

Regaling the crowd with is love for comics, Levine said he most appreciated the way the illustrated books dealt with the adult world. Spider-Man had to make ends meet. Iron Man had to deal with alcoholism. The X-Men faced up to racism. Despite the array of issues our there, one took precedence in Levine's mind: women.

"In short, I wanted to **** the Scarlet Witch," Levine said, explaining the intersection of his two primary pre-teen interests.

Levine talked a bit about his nerdly shame, noting the deepening ostracism as he got into games with an Atari 2600 and Dungeons & Dragons.

"I didn't want to like the **** I liked," Levine said, saying he wanted to fit in, to like sports, smoke cigarettes, and be normal.

By the time he got to high school, he said he had given up and kept his nerdy nature a secret. And then one day he overheard some kids on the bus talking openly about saving throws, Owlbears, and other such nerdy D&D fare with no negative repercussions.

Levine hooked up with the kids for a bit of role-playing one night, and found a group of about 10 kids that were part of a group. Through that group, he got into Dr. Who, The Prisoner, Monty Python, and still more geek reference points. Levine said after 14 years of searching, he'd finally found his tribe.

By 1982, Levine said things had started to change. There were new faces in the regular adventuring party. Female faces. Levine warned that the days of any D&D group are numbered when members start "inappropriately buffing" or doling out primo loot drops to undeserving members named Heather, Kelly, or Pam.

With no girlfriend of his own, Levine's surprise and confusion gave way to a sense of betrayal. He understands now that his friends were just ahead of him on the road to adulthood and college.

With the tribe petering out, Levine needed something where he could put his improvisation skills to use. He found the drama club, "bad Shakespeare, 'Greased Lightning,' and jazz hands."

After college, Levine said his life was taking off. He was a writer sharing an apartment with Marisa Tomei's brother, one of the Goonies, and the guy from Leprechaun 2. He was also trying to pitch an ultra-violent vampire movie. While the vampire movie didn't make the cut, he was offered a gig writing a frothy romantic comedy.

The new crowd Levine was hanging with thought "fantasy role-playing" was something done with a very expensive prostitute, and that Dr. Who was their kid's ophthalmologist. Still wanting to leave behind his nerdy nature, Levine threw himself into the romantic comedy project.

"And then, in what should be a surprise to nobody, my romantic comedy ended up sucking," Levine said.

He was out of a screenwriter gig and he bounced around doing odd jobs for the next decade, all supporting his gaming habit. Levine name-checked Metroid, Zelda, Herzog Zwei, and Ultima Underworld, saying he'd go home every night and numb himself with games like a lush with a flask.

Eventually, Levine realized that people got paid to make games. He picked up a copy of the now-defunct Next-Gen magazine and found an ad listing for a game designer at Looking Glass Studios. He applied, and a little over a month later, he was on his way to Boston.

Upon arriving, Levine expected a cubicle farm with salarymen working a 9-to-5. What he actually witnessed was a group of gamers yelling over Soulcalibur and Magic: The Gathering, people making popcorn for a screening of Bladerunner, more than a dozen happy nerds--his new tribe.

"After so many years of running from the very things I loved, it's amazing for a guy like me to come here and see what Gabe and Tycho and the volunteers have built here," Levine said. "We're united by a common element...What brings us all together at PAX is we're a giant bunch of f****** nerds."

Levine wrapped up by telling the crowd to enjoy PAX, and thanking them for welcoming him into their tribe.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #501 on: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 09:54:28 AM »
Bioshock 2 trailer unlocks after beating PS3 version?  Or something like that.  The video is neat, at any rate!

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #502 on: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:56:22 AM »
That works well at an emotional level, but I'm not sure why.  It shows next to nothing.  Is it the song?  The girl bringing up memories of the first game?  The foreboding?  Now I need to find a direct recording of that. 

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #503 on: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 01:39:44 PM »
That works well at an emotional level, but I'm not sure why.  It shows next to nothing.  Is it the song?  The girl bringing up memories of the first game?  The foreboding?
All of the above.

Plus, she's holding a Big Daddy doll.

Quote
Now I need to find a direct recording of that. 
Plus, with Rapture it looks like turning into what looks to be graveyards -- and with the girl standing on the beach at the ocean, I think she might be one of the survivors (or maybe only survivors) of Rapture?

I don't know where this might be headed, but for a teaser trailer, that was pretty cool.


Offline MysterD

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Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #505 on: Friday, October 17, 2008, 02:22:00 PM »
The Godfather II!!!!

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #506 on: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:33:51 AM »
So like... it'll have events from before and events from after is the idea?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #507 on: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:37:47 AM »
That's what I am taking from this... kinda like the second godfather.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #508 on: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 07:41:10 AM »
Heh, never seen any of the Godfather films.  I know, I know, what's wrong with me, etc.

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Offline Cobra951

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #509 on: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:07:18 AM »
Can you even socialize in this country if you're not well acquainted with the Godfather lore?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #510 on: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 10:23:45 AM »
Why do you think I'm a shut-in?

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #511 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 05:47:04 AM »
2K Marin's very own Charles Shechbeck confirms that Bioshock 2 will be both a prequel and sequel to the original Bioshock game.

Cool.

And to Que's condition of a Godfather-lore-deficiency:

It's ok man. I've never actually watched Psycho but I can still relate to some of the references. In time you will learn to adapt and spot the references regardless whether or not you actually watched it.

Actually you're original guess was pretty accurate :)

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #512 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 06:17:02 AM »
I only seen the first Godfather flick, myself. And yes, it's must-see stuff.

I really loved Bioshock. I really don't know if the original game can be topped, when it comes the entire storyline, depth, and double-meaning (on the "illusion" of non-linearity and also narrative being very important) that this game had going on.

I was looking forward to Bioshock 2 anyways...but I'm even more interested in it now since Bioshock 2 is going to be very interesting I think, being both a prequel and sequel to the original game. I actually could've waited to see what 2K Marin was up to, but suddenly knowing this tidbit and after seeing the new Bioshock 2 trailer, I can't wait to see what 2K Marin's up to now.




Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #513 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 11:01:08 AM »
Well considering that you find it to be must-see stuff, and the second is better, how come you haven't seen it? :P

Offline scottws

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #514 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:16:13 PM »
Yeah, that struck me as odd as well.

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #515 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 12:38:22 PM »
Well considering that you find it to be must-see stuff, and the second is better, how come you haven't seen it? :P
I found the original Godfather to be must-see stuff, yes.

About not getting around to GF2 -- ummm, laziness?  :o

Offline MysterD

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #516 on: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 04:02:15 PM »
Bioshock for the PS3 will get Exclusive DLC on November 20th.
No clue for PS3 gamers, on if it'll be free-to-download or if you will have to buy it.


Quote
Exclusive PS3 BioShock DLC Releasing on November 20
Self-contained "Challenge Rooms" to be available for download next month.
By Kris Pigna, 10/19/2008

Sure, by the time BioShock releases on the PlayStation 3 this Tuesday, Xbox 360 and PC gamers will have been able to play it for 14 months. But don't fret, Sony fans -- 2K Games is giving you something special for your patience. They've announced that a DLC pack with new gameplay exclusive to the PS3 version will be released on November 20.

The DLC pack will add new "Challenge Rooms" for players to tackle, which will be self-contained areas that require you to use everything you've learned in the main game to clear a series of puzzles (kind of sounds like the BioShock version of Portal, in a way). No pricing details were given, so it's unclear how much people will have to pay to add the extra content to their games. Hopefully it won't cost too much... considering this DLC is coming only a month after the game's release, it probably won't go down well with consumers if they have to pay a premium price for features that could, in theory, have been included in the game to begin with.

Offline K-man

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #517 on: Monday, October 20, 2008, 07:12:54 AM »
It's been a few months since my play through of Bioshock, and I still get warm fuzzies thinking about it.  I rarely ever feel that I'm wrong with an initial judgment of a game, but I very much was with this game.  I'll definitely play through it again.

Offline iPPi

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #518 on: Monday, October 20, 2008, 07:39:50 AM »
My experience with Bioshock was interesting to say the least.

When the demo was first released for the Xbox, I tried it and I loved it, so on the first day I bought it.  However, I think I put like 3-4 hours into it before I just stopped playing it for about 8-10 months because I found it somewhat boring.  The game starts off quite slow and the story arc near the start was very disappointing to me.  Also, the early missions, such as collecting the items to make that serum (I forget the name) were monotonous objectives. 

Luckily, I did decide to push ahead and I finally got the storyline to progress and the game really started to pick up.  Once it did, followed with the twist, I finished it shortly after and I loved it.

It is most definitely a great game, though early on I was quite disappointed with it.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: The Official BioShock thread.
« Reply #519 on: Monday, October 20, 2008, 12:13:49 PM »
Like I've stated before, while I really liked Bioshock, I thought its action elements were above average, and not quite at the level of excellence as its narrative. Also, despite what I say next, I still really enjoyed the game.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD:

Also, I agree with iPPi, in terms of a slow start. While the initial awe inspiring bits were excellent, I found the pacing off. Also, until the twist, I felt absolutely nothing for the protagonist. And while many reviewers felt that the game should have ended after the twist, my feelings were the exact opposite, in that I fell more compelled to play after the golf clubbing event.

I guess it was because the twist made the protagonist feel real to me, and I suddenly felt reason to go forward.

While rapture was a fantastically interesting and gorgeous place to explore, I felt aimless and purposeless, despite looking for the family of my would be rescuer. I guess it was because I felt like the character I was controlling was a bit of a drone.

In my opinion, until the twist, the game should have cut with a lot more flashbacks of the protagonist's past. Not only would that made gamers empathize more with the game's lead character, but the twist would have had far greater impact than it had had.