Author Topic: Quake Wars to have in-game ads  (Read 8883 times)

Offline idolminds

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Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 04:41:05 PM »
Bummer.

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To help cover this level of on-going support without passing the costs on to the gamer, ETQW will feature appropriate advertisements in select locations of our levels. The ads aren't intrusive and you won't have to interact with them; they'll just be part of the normal environment. In fact, there are some places it's quite odd not to have an advertisement - the sides of container trucks, for example. Great care is being taken to ensure that all our ads are appropriate for the game world and we have absolute approval rights in this area. If it's not appropriate or it's distracting, it won't go in.
  Its nice they have full control over the ads to make sure they blend in properly and stuff. I find it funny how it seems like these futuristic shooters get the ads (QW, BF2142)...where the products advertised most likely don't exist.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 05:34:29 PM »
Bah @ this.

Offline NatchDan

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 05:47:26 PM »
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Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 05:58:48 PM »
Care to elaborate?

I don't want to see a growing trend where more and more games come with "in-game ads." Do games really need these ads littered in-game??? No, I think not.

I don't mind seeing say Game Developer, Game Publisher, "NVidia", and "ATI" logos, or anyone who sponsered the game, when I boot my game up and all. You expect that -- it doesn't have anything to do w/ being in-game.

I don't really see any good of placing ads in-game -- especially if it will be a piece of "malware" that will decide to generate ads based on where you go w/ your web browser, like BF 2142 does.

It might take a tiny bit of time for the game to generate this ad, even -- which might even knock the game's framerate down a few frames.

Also, I just don't know if it's really a good idea. Sure, it's good to have sponsers and stuff to throw $$$ to a dev, but would say a Pepsi logo somewhere look right w/in Quake Wars? I'm guessing Pepsi might not even be around, by then. Plus, that universe if fictitious, anyways.

Offline beo

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 07:47:45 PM »
I don't want to see a growing trend where more and more games come with "in-game ads." Do games really need these ads littered in-game??? No, I think not.

hey, if you want the game to have continued support through patches and upgrades, the devs are going to need to cover their costs. once a game has been out for a number of months/years, it's no longer cost effective to support the game. with a game such as quake wars, which relies heavily on online play, continued developer support is essential.

what would you rather have. an online shooter with a few ads here and there, that is still playable in eighteen months time - or, an online shooter that is hacked to shit, has no new maps and doesn't work well with newer hardware? i guess the third alternative is to pay a subscription - but who the fuck is going to pay a subscription for an online shooter?

of course, i don't like the idea of ads in games, but it seems to be the best solution to a difficult problem. what would your better solution to this problem be, MysterD, seeing as you state that in game adverts are not needed?

Offline NatchDan

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 08:57:21 PM »
beo gets in before me again. The extra revenue ensures a well-supported game for some time.

Personally, I don't find ads in games intrusive. Is it just me? Like the article says, there are some places it'd be weird NOT to see ads. Admittedly, ones that pull your browser history up are creepier. But I think SSX3 is made almost a little cooler by the fact that it's littered with ads for the now-defunct DnL energy drink. Guitar Hero 2 is pretty heavy on the Gibson love, would you complain about that?
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Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday, June 19, 2007, 10:59:08 PM »
My problem is the methods they've used to force it all down our throats thus far.  I can see it working if they keep it really unintrusive and if it doesn't try to pry into your personal data for anything.  If it's just a texture on a wall that doesn't look like total crap and I can completely ignore it if I so desire... fine.  Anything and everything else is completely unacceptable.

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Offline Jedi

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 03:28:35 AM »
I don't want to see a growing trend where more and more games come with "in-game ads." Do games really need these ads littered in-game??? No, I think not.

Does a road need to be littered with billboards? "I think not".

Beo brings up a good point and like Q has already said ~ if done right we wont notice or really even care.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 10:13:27 AM »
Is anyone really surprised? Economically it makes sense for these developers. Get used to this becoming a trend.

I disagree with the notion that they need this money for upgrades or patches, though. Games have worked fine for years without these ads that have put out upgrades and patches. Unless for some reason these games cost significantly more to update, the only reason for the ads is simply more revenue. What really stood out to me in the original post was this quote:

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In fact, there are some places it's quite odd not to have an advertisement

The notion that ads are so commonplace in our society that we find it odd to not see them disturbs me greatly. But perhaps that discussion is for another time.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 11:20:23 AM »
So far, the most ripe platform for this kind of thing is the X360, and frankly, I don't mind anything I've seen yet.  It didn't bother me in Crackdown, and it doesn't bother me in Forza, where all the ads are the sort of things you'd expect on racing cars and tracks.  Let's see how far they run with it.  If I'm going to pick my fights, this one is way down the priority list.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 11:29:08 AM »
I think the revenue will be for more patches and content above what would normally be possible. Some old games still get updates, like Starcraft and HL1. But thats a rarity. Most games get a handful of updates and are never touched again. Its just not worth the money to develop new updates to games older than X years. Singleplayer doesnt matter as much, but multiplayer games will see imbalances, explots, and hacks show up. If the game isnt updated those thing will never get fixed which can kill the community. Hopefully with the ads in place, the money brought it can pay for continued development long after what would normally happen.

Offline Jedi

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:03:31 PM »
So far, the most ripe platform for this kind of thing is the X360, and frankly, I don't mind anything I've seen yet.  It didn't bother me in Crackdown~

They did this in crackdown?! Holy Batshit Robin I didn't even notice... wow I guess then that's an example of doing it right, huh.

Offline scottws

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:11:23 PM »
Or wrong, depending on your perspective.  I didn't know there were ads either, so that probably means they had no effect on me and it was wasted money.

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:13:01 PM »
I think the revenue will be for more patches and content above what would normally be possible. Some old games still get updates, like Starcraft and HL1. But thats a rarity. Most games get a handful of updates and are never touched again. Its just not worth the money to develop new updates to games older than X years. Singleplayer doesnt matter as much, but multiplayer games will see imbalances, explots, and hacks show up. If the game isnt updated those thing will never get fixed which can kill the community. Hopefully with the ads in place, the money brought it can pay for continued development long after what would normally happen.

Perhaps, but you have to realize that as games get older the number of people that play it declines, which means less money is made from the ads.

Also, Cobra, I agree with you on the non-pervasiveness (hyphenated?) of the ads, I have played a few computer games with ads and not really noticed them. Lets just hope they don't get out of control. Flashiness is important in advertising, the fact that we don't notice the in-game ads isn't necessarily a good thing for future advertising. 

Edit: Heh, the last two posts just prove that last point.

Offline TheOtherBelmont

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:18:31 PM »
They did this in crackdown?! Holy Batshit Robin I didn't even notice... wow I guess then that's an example of doing it right, huh.

I think I remember seeing an ad for a car, possibly the Dodge Nitro on a billboard in that game and maybe one for an energy drink too.  Cobra can correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:31:18 PM »
Or wrong, depending on your perspective.  I didn't know there were ads either, so that probably means they had no effect on me and it was wasted money.
Or not. Depends on whats being advertised and how aggressive they want to be. You didn't notice in Tomb Raider Legend that the cars were Jeep and the motorcycle was Ducati. They were there, and they were ads even if they didn't bash you over the head. Movie take a similar approach. Sometimes its blatant (I, Robot), others its subtle (Matrix...everyone wanted those sunglasses and cell phones, even the monitors were Dell or something).

So if its there for atmosphere...whatever. An urban environment with billboards makes sense. Throwing posters all over everything (SWAT 4)...eh, no.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:38:08 PM »
My problem is the methods they've used to force it all down our throats thus far.  I can see it working if they keep it really unintrusive and if it doesn't try to pry into your personal data for anything.
Agreed 100%, Que. 

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If it's just a texture on a wall that doesn't look like total crap and I can completely ignore it if I so desire... fine.  Anything and everything else is completely unacceptable.
Again, Que -- 100% agreed.


Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 01:52:57 PM »
MysterD, did you even read the part where they state

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The ads aren't intrusive and you won't have to interact with them; they'll just be part of the normal environment. In fact, there are some places it's quite odd not to have an advertisement - the sides of container trucks, for example.
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 02:20:36 PM »
hey, if you want the game to have continued support through patches and upgrades, the devs are going to need to cover their costs. once a game has been out for a number of months/years, it's no longer cost effective to support the game. with a game such as quake wars, which relies heavily on online play, continued developer support is essential.

what would you rather have. an online shooter with a few ads here and there, that is still playable in eighteen months time - or, an online shooter that is hacked to shit, has no new maps and doesn't work well with newer hardware?
I'd rather the developers find BETTER ways to get "donations" to them than to do what the hell they're starting to do now w/ SWAT 4, Quake Wars, CS, BF 2142, and other games.

For example, I have NO problem w/ when I open my video game's retail box up and I see a bunch of advertisement cards that might have a "Pepsi" ad on them or somethin'. Plaster ads in the hard copy of the game manual that comes in the box, if you want -- fine by me. Games been doing that for years -- that doesn't bother me one bit.

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i guess the third alternative is to pay a subscription - but who the fuck is going to pay a subscription for an online shooter?
If it is an MMO, in which the developers provide the servers and bandwidth, people might actually pay for an online shooter.

Otherwise, I doubt anyone would pay $$ to play an online shooter in which they can connect to any game via any computer.

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of course, i don't like the idea of ads in games, but it seems to be the best solution to a difficult problem. what would your better solution to this problem be, MysterD, seeing as you state that in game adverts are not needed?
I don't want the "ads" to be "in-game" -- especially if they ain't gonna be static. And, I don't want to see any ads that might seem out of place w/ the "in-game world," either. For example, seeing ads plastered on in-game billboards for Coca Cola in a straight-up futuristic game that takes place in 2230 might not make too much sense to me -- do you really think Coca Cola would be around then? I think not.

I made one suggestion, earlier -- the ads can be shown like when you boot the game up, like when they show the game developers logo, the NVidia or ATI logo. Showing ads when I'm not in the actual game world, makes sense to me.

Another suggestion -- if they want to say FORCE us to watch ads, don't have the game generate them on the fly. That's just asking for trouble, performance-wise. Give us "static" ads -- and that you show them say during game LOADING screens. I don't need "generated" ads causing my framerate to drop when I'm in the game just b/c they ain't "static". This was already noted as an issue w/ game such as SWAT 4 and BF 2142. Once people found ways to "disable" them, their framerates and in-game performance increased quite a bit.

Okay, since I've been asked for some SUGGESTIONS, here are some SUGGESTIONS.

1. Show Ads During Installation Process
Throw some ads during the install screens. Some games have even shown ads for other games, while you are even installing a game for install screens. During Gothic 3's install, after it shows a bunch of screens from the game, the install screens even showed me some ads for other games published by JoWood, ads for video cards, and a few other things. This makes a lot of sense to me. Show it then and there.

2. Devs, Go Thank Your Sponsors In The Credits Somewhere
In the "credits" part of a game (usually that is at the end of a game and/or often a separate option to watch these "credits" at the game's root menu), the developers can have a "special thanks to these sponsors" section to whoever sponsored the game -- like they can thank Pepsi, Coke or somethin' for their "donations."

3. Give me an option to View "Ads & Trailers" from the game's Main Menu
In the game's main root menu (where you can give the option to begin/load a game), there can be another option for the player to look at "Advertisements/Trailers" anytime they so choose. That can be like when you rent/buy a DVD movie, at the root menu or in the special features menu, there's an option to separately view "Ads & Trailers." Fine -- put some ads and trailers there. If I want to view them, I will.

4. Show "Static" Ads During Loading Screens
When a level or area or something is loading, just show a static ad. I'm waiting for the game to load -- and that does break the immersion of being in the actual game and gameworld itself, so just show it then. That's fine w/ me.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 02:27:45 PM »
I think I remember seeing an ad for a car, possibly the Dodge Nitro on a billboard in that game and maybe one for an energy drink too.  Cobra can correct me if I'm wrong.

Intel dual-core stuff popped up all over the billboards at one point too.

Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 02:36:19 PM »
MysterD, none of those solutions are plausible. If I were a video game company, I would only shell out a MINIMAL amount to have my product featured on an installation screen or the credits. Who the fuck stays at their computer during installation or reads the credits anyways?


(the answer is : no one)
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 02:59:16 PM »
Blade Runner thinks Coke exists in the future...

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 03:09:45 PM »
MysterD, none of those solutions are plausible. If I were a video game company, I would only shell out a MINIMAL amount to have my product featured on an installation screen or the credits. Who the fuck stays at their computer during installation or reads the credits anyways?

(the answer is : no one)
If it's a multi-CD install, you'll be there -- so you can swap the CD's in and out, when the game requests the next CD. :P

First of all, let me state this -- GAME DEVELOPERS need to give me a reason to stay for an install.

If the game is just gonna show only a bar of progress for the actual install (STALKER did this), I have no reason to sit here to watch it install -- I'll just go do something else, in the meantime.

For an install, sometimes I stay for the install; it depends on the game's install presentation itself. If it shows some cool early development artwork (Morrowind), some in game screens (Gothic 3), plays some good music (Gothic 3), tells some of the game's story during the install w/ some audio along w/ some video to immerse you into the game (Soldier of Fortune 2), shows some ads for other games/products (Gothic 3), or does something I find worth while to sit for, I will stay for the install.

Also, you didn't really respond to my other suggestion of showing ads during a game's loading screens...
Many games have many of those; and often, these load times are often quite numerous and quite brief, so you might as well just sit there anyways for the load screens. And since you're sitting there waiting for the load screen, why not have the game show a quick advertisement there???
It's not like it'll break your immersion out of the game and load. It's a load screen. The immersion from the game's broken, momentarily.

Any opinion on that?

Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 04:00:23 PM »
Any new game coming out will most likely be on a DVD-ROM. All the games I have last installed I did so via DVD. WoW and its expansion, C&C, Jade Empire. I slid it in then I went to do something else while it installed.

As for the loading screen, it is the same deal. Quick load then you are thrust into a game that lasts for a very long time.

I imagine that for a company to agree to ads, they will be paid A LOT for it. I don't think companies would want to pay assloads of money just to be told "k guys.. you are going to be on the loading screen that players will see for like 2 minutes but really they will probably be taking a piss or getting a drink before they play for hours"

And if you think about it, to think that there AREN'T ads in the future is unrealistic. Take Battlefield 2142 for example. The way society is headed, I would think there would be WAAAAAY more ads in real life settings then that game portrayed.  At least the Quake Wars devs are insisting it will be non-intrusive.

To imagine a world without ads is the ultimate sci-fi.
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 04:10:34 PM »
Any new game coming out will most likely be on a DVD-ROM. All the games I have last installed I did so via DVD. WoW and its expansion, C&C, Jade Empire.
Yes, very true. Jade Empire's on DVD, STALKER's on DVD.
Not all games are on DVD, though. NWN2 came on Multi-CD-ROM, as well as DVD. :P

I'm sure, in due time, we might see games on more than one DVD, in the future. That's if there seems to be no real winner b/t HD-DVD and BluRay, once those make their way to PC's.

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I slid it in then I went to do something else while it installed.
Yup, that can be done.

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As for the loading screen, it is the same deal. Quick load then you are thrust into a game that lasts for a very long time.
What about showing an ad when a game is loading a new level/area???
Some games take a good amount of time to load a level/area -- see Gothic 3 or Far Cry.

Of course, you could always walk out the room while the loading screen shows an ad and then come back in, once the level's loaded and all.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 04:26:54 PM »
I think it would be more annoying having an ad shown to me between level loads than having a Coke machine in the level itself. I mean, in a game, especially a game in a modern urban setting, ads are all over. Does it really matter to you if those ads are fake generic stuff the devs created just to fill the space or if they are real ads for real products? It doesnt matter to me.

That is of course if they blend in. Throwing ads on everything and really putting it in your face is a turn off. If its handled well then its not that big of a deal.

Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 04:27:57 PM »
D... just...


stop...

holy god
Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 04:41:34 PM »
I think it would be more annoying having an ad shown to me between level loads than having a Coke machine in the level itself. I mean, in a game, especially a game in a modern urban setting, ads are all over.

On the Coke machine -- I think it'd depend on how often there are Coke machines placed in the game and where they're placed in the game.

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Does it really matter to you if those ads are fake generic stuff the devs created just to fill the space or if they are real ads for real products? It doesnt matter to me.
The fake generic stuff can be often funny.
Often, some are often "in jokes", poking fun at real objects.
Those can be better than having the real deal, if you ask me.

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That is of course if they blend in.
The definite key word is "IF" in that sentence.

I'm trying to think of some games that placed ads w/in their games, which weren't annoying.

Hmmmm....The Cingular phone ads all over NFS: Most Wanted was quite annoying -- it was even your phone carrier, even; for your "phone" (Audio Journal) and all.


Offline Jedi

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 05:40:59 PM »
D... just...


stop...

holy god

I concur.
We get it D you don't like the idea of ads. OK fine, but your suggestions aren't possibile (as its already been stated). Like I've already said (and I'm sure someone else said the same) I didn't even notice the ads in Crackdown (which by the way is a failure on their end to actively advertise something), so how do you know you'll notice it? I think you've got into your head that this is will destroy your gaming experience when it probably wont even be noticeable.

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On the Coke machine -- I think it'd depend on how often there are Coke machines placed in the game and where they're placed in the game.

Right there! See you've missed the bloody point. Plenty of games have vending machines and have done so for years now; just dotted around the map to add to the realism of the setting, but they would've had some made up generic logo/product. If those games had "ads" then those machines would be Coke vending machines not generic BS which adds to the realism.
Same goes with posters and billboards many many games have them, they'll just be real world products.
And by the way selling today’s products in the futuristic setting is nothing new, movies have been doing it for years ie Blade Runner, iRobot etc etc.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 05:50:17 PM »
I have no desire to get into this clusterfuck and have already stated my very simple opinion, but I'll just note that I never noticed ads in Crackdown either.  Kudos to them for that.  The ads may have been ineffectual in some cases, but they didn't screw it up and ruin a great game with them either.

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Offline gpw11

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, June 20, 2007, 11:26:58 PM »
You know, I'd be willing to bet that Coke will be around in 2142.  It has a revenue of like $25 billion, and I don't think a Fortune 500 list has come out that it didn't appear on (usually in the top 100).  Beyond that, their separate bottling companies often appear on the list as well.  It's a pretty stable company.

That aside, I'm sorry to say it, but pretty much all of your suggestions are counter-productive to what they are trying to do and pretty unrealistic.  What you have to think about is this:  would you rather have ads, have less support, or pay more?  If it really comes down to it and people are against the ads so much, perhaps they should offer a version with ads, and a version without.  The catch would be that the version without is going to cost you about $20 more.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #31 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 10:52:05 AM »
But that's the core of the problem.  We paid for the hardware, the software, and the connectivity in the case of multiplayer.  Now they say we need to pay some more in the form of forced ads, just to keep getting what we always got, before this latest scheme to squeeze more dollars out of everything.  I said before that this fight is way down my priority list.  Things like Microsoft cramming the horror show that is Vista down our throats takes center ring right now.  But it doesn't mean that I think pervasive in-game ads are a good thing.  You know that once the floodgates are open, it will only get worse.

Offline NatchDan

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #32 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 11:10:22 AM »
Am I the only one who doesn't despise advertising? I mean, if you don't want the product, you don't have to buy it. Simple as that. There's a tie I go to where they tried using Google ads to pay for the upkeep but had to take them down because people bitched so much. It's like a tiny bar at the top of the screen. Jesus.

Besides, without advertising we wouldn't have this.
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Offline TheOtherBelmont

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #33 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 11:14:24 AM »
Besides, without advertising we wouldn't have this.

Hahaha thread's over, Dan wins.

Offline NatchDan

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #34 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 11:45:01 AM »
Score!
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Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #35 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 02:55:28 PM »
But that's the core of the problem.  We paid for the hardware, the software, and the connectivity in the case of multiplayer.  Now they say we need to pay some more in the form of forced ads, just to keep getting what we always got, before this latest scheme to squeeze more dollars out of everything.
Exactly.

I am already paying for the computer (hardware), the game (software), and an Internet provider so I can play the game online against other people. What the hell else do I really need to pay for here????

Do we really need more additional minor bullshit to add to the smelly pile already?? Let's just add some more up to make this one grand huge stinking major pile of shit, while we're at it!!!

Gamers already do deal w/ shoddy disc copyright protections that can mess up computers, such as StarForce. Gamers already deal w/ crappy implemented services such as Valve's STEAM -- which happens to be a resource hog, as well. Now, suddenly, game ads are the new big thing -- and the way BF 2142 does it, it's intrusive malware that generates ads on the fly. Oh, great!!! So, can companies find a way to bog down a computer even more so???

Oh, and we got Microsoft trying to shove Vista down our throats on Windows now w/ Windows Vista exclusives. Now, they are also trying to shove Windows Live down our throats, too -- great, so that's another additional fee to play for games online. Why all of this mess??!?! B/c it seems these guys just can't seem to keep their development costs down and/or b/c they also want to just make more damn money quickly; probably a mixture of both.

I think Cobra said it best....
Quote from: Cobra
But it doesn't mean that I think pervasive in-game ads are a good thing. You know that once the floodgates are open, it will only get worse.
Exactly, Cobra.

And major titles like BF 2142 and SWAT 4 really paved the way for this, basically. I never thought I'd see the day Id would bring "ads" into their games, myself.

I guess I am really going to have to see, once Quake Wars comes out and all, how "not-so-intrusive" these in-game ads will be, for myself.

You know, if I buy a game and see some Pepsi machines everywhere and absolutely no Coke machines, something's just not too damn realistic about the game here.... :P Especially if the game's set in a modern setting. :P

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That aside, I'm sorry to say it, but pretty much all of your suggestions are counter-productive to what they are trying to do and pretty unrealistic.  What you have to think about is this:  would you rather have ads, have less support, or pay more?  If it really comes down to it and people are against the ads so much, perhaps they should offer a version with ads, and a version without.  The catch would be that the version without is going to cost you about $20 more.
Forget selling a version w/ ads -- especially if the ads will be "intrusive malware" to my computer.

Just go ahead and increase the cost of what games are sold for.


Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #36 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 03:13:29 PM »
You gotta remember that they will be supporting this game for YEARS. They will allocate an enormous amount of resources AFTER the game has been released to keep up patches and additional content.

It's like how you keep disbaraging World of Warcraft and other MMO's for being pay to play. You DO realize that its costing Blizzard millions of a dollars each month to keep and maintain those servers? Most MMO's also release additional content. WoW releases new dungeons all the time. This is akin to an entire EXPANSION. (Yes, I know WoW has an official expansion pack but that was for 2 new races and a higher level cap)

To me it seems like lose-lose for the company. To keep up with rising costs they can raise the cost of the game. Then people like you would be on forums bitching about the rising price of games instead of ads. PEOPLE... THIS IS HOW THINGS GO. NOTHING STAYS THE SAME PRICE FOREVER. JUST LOOK AT GAS PRICES OR THE PRICE OF MILK.

Just try and wrap your head around it. These games are costing millions of dollars to make. The "good ole days" where companies can charge $50 per game and make huge profit are GONE. People want high production values and a cinema-like experience but DO NOT want to pay extra for it. So instead of charging more the company puts in ads.

It seems reasonable to me. If it doesn't to you then don't buy it. Just look at it from their point of view. I will respect it as long as the ads are non-intrusive and do not wreck the experience. (A "Coke" ad on a billboard in an Old West game would be crossing the line, for example)

Suck it, Pugnate.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #37 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 04:51:58 PM »
You gotta remember that they will be supporting this game for YEARS. They will allocate an enormous amount of resources AFTER the game has been released to keep up patches and additional content.

It's like how you keep disbaraging World of Warcraft and other MMO's for being pay to play. You DO realize that its costing Blizzard millions of a dollars each month to keep and maintain those servers?
Of course I know this. I understand why they do it; I just don't particularly like it. I'd rather them charge more $$ for the game than go the monthly subscription route.

Many MMO's fail and go under, since they can't keep up w/ the cost of upkeeping the servers AND b/c of other MMO's they are competiting w/. Especially the cash cow MMO's, making all the bucks -- they are easilt killing the lesser MMO's out there.

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Most MMO's also release additional content. WoW releases new dungeons all the time. This is akin to an entire EXPANSION. (Yes, I know WoW has an official expansion pack but that was for 2 new races and a higher level cap)
Yes, many MMO's release additional content in an episodic style, as things go along. I'm not really a big fan of this "episodic" style of gaming, either -- but, that's a thread for another issue.

See, I'd rather them go the Guild Wars route and just pump out new big expansion packs, in which I am charged only for each new piece of new big content that they want to sell to me. And if they like, b/c it is an MMO, they can charge me more for expansions than the usual expansion game would cost -- to try and keep up w/ the server costs, of course. This seems very fair to me.

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To me it seems like lose-lose for the company. To keep up with rising costs they can raise the cost of the game. Then people like you would be on forums bitching about the rising price of games instead of ads. PEOPLE... THIS IS HOW THINGS GO. NOTHING STAYS THE SAME PRICE FOREVER. JUST LOOK AT GAS PRICES OR THE PRICE OF MILK.

Just try and wrap your head around it. These games are costing millions of dollars to make. The "good ole days" where companies can charge $50 per game and make huge profit are GONE. People want high production values and a cinema-like experience but DO NOT want to pay extra for it. So instead of charging more the company puts in ads.
Companies have stomped over the gamers and their computers in many regards, such as nasty copyright protection (think StarForce) and resource hog programs for handling games (think STEAM). And now, games like SWAT 4 and BF 2142 are doing it w/ "ad generating malware" that are intrusive to the gamer and their computer. Please, stop messing with my computer!!!

Another thing. Hollywood's not a great example for gaming to copy. Many of their films have over-priced, over-sized budgets -- and many of those movies don't turn out that good, even. Often, mediocre at best. Maybe, just maybe, game companies should stop emulating Hollywood -- namely, on the ridiculous over-sized budget part. Spending money better and wiser, now that would be a much better start.

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It seems reasonable to me. If it doesn't to you then don't buy it. Just look at it from their point of view.
I do understand that these companies need more $$, to try and keep production values high. Especially since games seem to now have Hollywood movie sized budgets. So, yeah -- they are going to different avenues to get this money. But, w/ what has been done already w/ ads in games, it doesn't look good. I don't see a bright future here, for ads being done "correctly" in a game.

If this "ad" thing is going to work for PC games, we need a PC game to set an example, as to how ads can be done right when incorporated into a game. This means gamers really won't notice the ads are placed in the game too blatantly, first off -- it can't take away from the game itself, namely. For it to be done right, I think the ads should be static period -- none of this "ad generation software" malware crap like BF 2142 and SWAT 4 do. I don't think the ads can be beaten too death, either. And, ads can't be illogically placed -- for example, like you said, Coke bottles in a Old West game's a no-no already.

Call me a pessimist here if you like, but w/ the way PC gaming is going w/ all this minor bullshit turning itself into one bigger pile of crap more and more, over the years -- I just don't really see any of this to be happening correctly anytime soon.


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I will respect it as long as the ads are non-intrusive and do not wreck the experience.
If done right, yes -- it's possible to be done right. But, what are the chances of that actually happening, do you think?

But, w/ all the mess going on here in the PC gaming world -- from Microsoft forcing Live and Vista to StarForce to STEAM to intrusive styles of advertising -- I think the future for "ads being represented right in a game" looks pretty damn bleak.

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(A "Coke" ad on a billboard in an Old West game would be crossing the line, for example)
I definitely think that would be illogical.

Offline gpw11

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #38 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 05:10:42 PM »
But that's the core of the problem.  We paid for the hardware, the software, and the connectivity in the case of multiplayer.  Now they say we need to pay some more in the form of forced ads, just to keep getting what we always got, before this latest scheme to squeeze more dollars out of everything.

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I am already paying for the computer (hardware), the game (software), and an Internet provider so I can play the game online against other people. What the hell else do I really need to pay for here?


Are you guys serious here?  No, really - are you?  Fuck man, my electricity bill went up because of infastructure improvements, total bullshit.  I mean, fuck now I pay more for the same thing I always did just because the world doesn't stay in a static state.  Total bullshit.  

Why don't you guys throw in the cost of property taxes, utilities, automobile insurance, and basically every other cost associated with the type of comfortable lifestyle that allows you to complain about being assaulted with ads in an entertainment medium.  

Did the paid Pepsi ad in Back to the Future ruin it for you guys?

Can you really not see that whatever associated costs involved with gaming you're including have nothing to do with the issue - the only thing that matters is the cost of software, the ads they are proposing, and what the benefits are to you.  "What?  Ads....but RAM prices just went up.  Ubisoft must be rolling in it already!"

The ads are offsetting the increasing costs of development.  They also are probably increasing the revenue of the publishers and developers, but again, that's irrelevant.  The purpose of these companies isn't to make games for you, the purpose is to make money.  The means in which they do it is to provide you with games.  It isn't a fucking charity and you have fucking options.  If they're trying to increase profits they will do so by either including ads, charging more, altering their risk assesment to ensure they only release games with good odds of making money back, or just plain old lowering the quality of the product while charging the same price.  I don't know which you'd rather have, but personally I'll take the ads.

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Do we really need more additional minor bullshit to add to the smelly pile already?? Let's just add some more up to make this one grand huge stinking major pile of shit, while we're at it!!!

They're just textures D....just textures.  

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Gamers already do deal w/ shoddy disc copyright protections that can mess up computers, such as StarForce. Gamers already deal w/ crappy implemented services such as Valve's STEAM -- which happens to be a resource hog, as well. Now, suddenly, game ads are the new big thing -- and the way BF 2142 does it, it's intrusive malware that generates ads on the fly. Oh, great!!! So, can companies find a way to bog down a computer even more so???

Look, it's the state of the industry.  You don't have to be happy about it, but it's not the injustice you make it out to be.  You don't have a born right to be able to play the latest first person shooter at 60fps.  You buy these games as a whole package and you have to deal with whatever they package it with.  Some of it is bullshit, but don't buy the fucking game then and write them an email telling them why.  Your alternative is to either not game or buy a console, but you're stupid to think that they should stop shipping with copy protection, ads, and the like just because you don't like them.  They know you don't and came to the conclusion that the percentage of people that passed up the game but otherwise would have bought it doesn't eclipse the percentage of people who now have to buy the game but otherwise wouldn't have (or the revenue coming in from the ads). What you can do is change that.

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B/c it seems these guys just can't seem to keep their development costs down and/or b/c they also want to just make more damn money quickly; probably a mixture of both.


Yeah, god forbid they can't spend the same ammount of money developing games to take advantage of the latest technology people spend thousands of dollars on as they would for an 8 bit nintendo, and god forbid that a corporation wants to make money in what is essentially a free market society.

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I guess I am really going to have to see, once Quake Wars comes out and all, how "not-so-intrusive" these in-game ads will be, for myself.

Oh, so you still plan on buying the game.  I see.

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Forget selling a version w/ ads -- especially if the ads will be "intrusive malware" to my computer.

Just go ahead and increase the cost of what games are sold for.

So for conversations sake am I to assume that you are willing to pay $20 more for a game in order to save you like 4 fps you won't even notice and not see any ads?  What about fictional ads in the game? Can they include those?  

Either way, you'd be in the minority.  







Offline angrykeebler

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Re: Quake Wars to have in-game ads
« Reply #39 on: Thursday, June 21, 2007, 06:19:35 PM »
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If done right, yes -- it's possible to be done right. But, what are the chances of that actually happening, do you think?

Very good. They promised it would be non-intrusive. Even the ads for Battlefield 2141 weren't bad at all. I can honestly say it did nothing to hinder my enjoyment of the game.

You people have to stop being so goddamn anal.  I can honestly say that MOST of the games I have played with ads or product placement have not bothered me AT ALL. I can't even remember a game where it bothered me. (I do remember being bothered on one or two games but I cannot remember which)

My point and bottom line? IT IS NOT THAT BAD.

STOP COMPLAINING. JUST SHUT UP AND PLAY.
Suck it, Pugnate.