Topic: NWN2 -- The HUGE, HUGE Thread

[Pugnate]

Yea there are a few problems. Like if you want to buy 10 potions you have to buy them one at a time and stuff. But so much of it is so very well polished.


My only complaint is that it is too easy even at full difficulty. I am playing this exactly like BG2 and can't stress how much I am loving it. The combat is very strategic as long as you play it that way, and the A.I. is really good.

I am so glad I waited for the 1.04 patch before starting on the game. It all feels really polished and the storyline and the quests are excellent so far. None of the 'fed ex' quests have been boring as of yet, and have been the perfect length.

You need one magic user in your party to fully enjoy the tactical aspects. One of the reasons BG1 and BG2 rocked my underpants so hard was because of the fantastic strategic combat.

As lovely as NWN1 was, the whole companion thing really short changed the experience. That wasn't something I realized at the time, having not played BG2 in so long, but with NWN2 there is a whole new dimension to everything. Actually it is a revival of an old dimension.

My only worry is that everything is automated by default so beautifully, that a lot of beginners will miss out on the depth of a true D&D
CRPG.

I think a lot of people don't even know that you can hold right click over the portraits of your companions AND TALK TO THEM!

My advise is to keep the AI settings at a min., and do everything yourself. It adds so much to the tactical aspect.

[MysterD]

Yea there are a few problems. Like if you want to buy 10 potions you have to buy them one at a time and stuff. But so much of it is so very well polished.

Thanks. I'll add that to my list of suggestions to throw for future patches on NWN2's official boards.

My only complaint is that it is too easy even at full difficulty.

I ain't found it too hard, yet not too easy.

I'm playing on Hardcore D&D Rules, BTW.

I am playing this exactly like BG2 and can't stress how much I am loving it. The combat is very strategic as long as you play it that way, and the A.I. is really good.

Agreed.

I am so glad I waited for the 1.04 patch before starting on the game. It all feels really polished and the storyline and the quests are excellent so far. None of the 'fed ex' quests have been boring as of yet, and have been the perfect length.

Agreed.

Hard to hate NWN2.

You need one magic user in your party to fully enjoy the tactical aspects. One of the reasons BG1 and BG2 rocked my underpants so hard was because of the fantastic strategic combat.

Exactly.

And NWN2 brought that back.

As lovely as NWN1 was, the whole companion thing really short changed the experience.

NWN didn't really kick-off the SP greatness until Hordes.

SOU was good, but it's no Hordes.

That wasn't something I realized at the time, having not played BG2 in so long, but with NWN2 there is a whole new dimension to everything. Actually it is a revival of an old dimension.

Right.

Revival of old school gaming, but done in a 3D world this time.

And the story's great.

I need to continue this one.

Where MyD is At.....

(click to show/hide)

I finished the Trial and won. Got challenged by Torio to fight.

Though, I have to do some Rites at the Temple, first.

My only worry is that everything is automated by default so beautifully, that a lot of beginners will miss out on the depth of a true D&D CRPG.

I thing this is fine, myself.

If you really want to tweak things out for your characters, you don't have to do follow the "Reccommended" path when you level up.

I think a lot of people don't even know that you can hold right click over the portraits of your companions AND TALK TO THEM!

I wish there was MORE to their conversations, though....

My advise is to keep the AI settings at a min., and do everything yourself. It adds so much to the tactical aspect.

I wish that Elanee w/ her AI on didn't do the damn "Shape Change" so much.
Drove me nuts....

[Pugnate]

I am just going through this thread...

Xessive, try using the mages instead of leaving them automated. You might have a blast. First go to the spell books and select the ones they are going to use for the day. Also go to the feats of every character and again set them on the short cuts. Before any combat try to prep up your team... enhance everyone with mage armor and other spells like barkskin, bullstrength etc.

Make sure your mage has a few dispel and penetrate magic spells. Just read up on the individual spells and stuff. If you have a battle where the other party also has a mage just use a few dispel magic spells to dilute the effects of the enemy's spells. Also keep a few spells with you that trap the enemy squad in place or makes them deaf, blind, or scared. There are even spells that control their minds and make them fight for you. It is awesome! Experiment!

I wish that Elanee w/ her AI on didn't do the damn "Shape Change" so much.
Drove me nuts....

haha I had that issue once, but then just go to the character AI setting and turn off her choice to shapeshift. Go to her spell book and short cut each spell she has memorized.

Just keep her spellcasting at zero, which you should be anyway and she won't shapeshift.

[Xessive]

Yeah, I have to manually use my magic-using companions because the AI is pretty retarded. Too often do they use area-effect spells that break containers, potentially damaging good equipment. They tend to be quite stupid when they use 'dispel' to attack enemies who have no boosts or anything. Then there are the two most annoying obsessions: my druid (Elanee) is obsessed with shape-shifting (usually into a useless badger); the annoying part about her morphing is that any items she's wearing (rings, amulet, armour) that adds a spell slot is disabled and when she transforms back into original form I have to manually refill her spell slots. The other annoying obsession is Qara (or Quara as they keep pronouncing her name), this chick is obsessed with fire-walls!! Every single fight, even if it's just one little goblin, FIRE!! I understand that kinda matches with her persona, but what the hell?! The magic is way too saturated for me.

At least in NWN1 you only had to worry about one henchman, and you could do some pretty serious damage on your own. NWN2 is too party oriented for me. It almost seems like Dungeon Siege. And because of this my character (a rogue) sucks ass individually, but does great support and sneak attacks. Sometime sI just wanna run off by myself and do some ninja-style stealth walking! Damn them for limiting the game! This is discrimination against ninjas and people who play games like ninjas!

Anyway, I generally hate having to use my mages manually because I only drag them along for support. I'm not a fan of magic, so having to use them is just a tedious task for me rather than a source of joy from the game. I can see Que jotting my name down on a losers-who-hate-magic list

[MysterD]

Yeah, I have to manually use my magic-using companions because the AI is pretty retarded. Too often do they use area-effect spells that break containers, potentially damaging good equipment. They tend to be quite stupid when they use 'dispel' to attack enemies who have no boosts or anything. Then there are the two most annoying obsessions: my druid (Elanee) is obsessed with shape-shifting (usually into a useless badger); the annoying part about her morphing is that any items she's wearing (rings, amulet, armour) that adds a spell slot is disabled and when she transforms back into original form I have to manually refill her spell slots. The other annoying obsession is Qara (or Quara as they keep pronouncing her name), this chick is obsessed with fire-walls!! Every single fight, even if it's just one little goblin, FIRE!! I understand that kinda matches with her persona, but what the hell?! The magic is way too saturated for me.

I have yet to put Qara even in my party, actually.

I already have myself as a Warlock, so really no need for another Magic user.

I'd use Elanee for healing purposes, but she does that Wild Shape ability TOO MUCH.

We need MORE DETAILED Behaviour settings for the AI of Magic users than what is given to us!!!

At least in NWN1 you only had to worry about one henchman, and you could do some pretty serious damage on your own. NWN2 is too party oriented for me. It almost seems like Dungeon Siege. And because of this my character (a rogue) sucks ass individually, but does great support and sneak attacks. Sometime sI just wanna run off by myself and do some ninja-style stealth walking! Damn them for limiting the game! This is discrimination against ninjas and people who play games like ninjas!

Anyway, I generally hate having to use my mages manually because I only drag them along for support. I'm not a fan of magic, so having to use them is just a tedious task for me rather than a source of joy from the game. I can see Que jotting my name down on a losers-who-hate-magic list

I love my Warlock character.

His Eldritch spells are FREAKIN' nasty -- all of 'em!!
Especially after learning "Chain" ability.

Very nice!

[Xessive]

Hehe yeah I can almost see you get excited just talking about it

I appreciate magic users, I just can't be one of them I prefer to stick to good ol' fashioned ass-whoopin' and perhaps having one or two helpful spells if any. By the end of the game my character was lvl 10 Rogue and lvl 10 Shadowdancer. Shadowdancer prestige class gives you a "Summon Shadow" spell which comes in handy. That's about the only spell I've actually used, besides scrolls.

Yeah, there definitely need to be many more behaviour controls! I hope they work on that in the upcoming patches.

[Pugnate]

Hey how do you get one of your party members to go solo? What's the key? Does anyone know?

edit:

Never mind. Just using broadcast command to get everyone to stay put.

[Xessive]

Hey how do you get one of your party members to go solo? What's the key? Does anyone know?

edit:

Never mind. Just using broadcast command to get everyone to stay put.

Yeah that's kinda annoying.. Before it used to be simply going into stealth mode takes you into solo mode too. Anyone else notice that the companions are really REALLY stupid around traps? Even when I've spotted them and they're highlighted!

[Pugnate]

Well I just command everyone to stay back and then I send the trap disposal unit i.e. my thief.

They were pretty dumb in NWN1 as well. But I think the A.I. is quite good so far. All I have to do is tell them to stop and they won't cross the trap in order to tackle the enemy.

[Xessive]

Patch v1.04.870 released (approx. 18.8 MB).

Not sure what's fixed, I haven't read the forums yet.

[MysterD]

Patch v1.04.870 released (approx. 18.8 MB).

Not sure what's fixed, I haven't read the forums yet.

Whoops...I put the wrong number in my thread title; LOL. I meant 1.04.860.

Anyways, see this message for what's fixed.

EDIT:
Hell,I'll just quote it, too -- so you ain't gotta click. that Make it easy and stuff.

Neverwinter Nights 2 Hotfix [February 08, 2007, 2:44 pm ET] - Viewing Comments
Neverwinter Nights 2 Forums now offer the release of a new hotfix to bring the D&D RPG sequel to version 1.04.870 (thanks NWN2 Vault). In the new version copying and pasting waypoints will no longer crash the toolset and helmets will no longer improperly show up as feathered hats in the toolset. Obsidian also offers assurance that additional issues mentioned by users will be addressed in future patches.

[Xessive]

Haha thanks D, my clicking finger thanks you for relieving it

[MysterD]

Haha thanks D, my clicking finger thanks you for relieving it

No problem.

I know you need to save all the clicking for controlling your mage party members w/ their crazy AI and all....

[Pugnate]

I just got to ACT II.

The awesomeness of this game is overwhelming...

[MysterD]

I just got to ACT II.

The awesomeness of this game is overwhelming...

NWN2 is really a great RPG, as long as you have the PC to handle it....

I do need to get back to it.....

[Xessive]

I'm playing through it again, but this time I unlocked all my party slots right from the start.. Just wanna see how the game will play like now. It's definitely going alright, and I've got quite a bit of influence over all my companions.

I don't know.. I like NWN2, but it's not as engaging as NWN1. I really loved the individuality of NWN1 over the over-dependence on party members of NWN2. And I've noticed that for a party-oriented game, it's got crap party controls! I'm comparing it to games like Dungeon Siege, of course.

I think the game would have been much better if they had geared it towards 2-3 man teams (like KotOR), rather than try to implement a full party. The problem I was having was that I get my ass handed to me if I try raiding a dungeon on my own, fair enough that makes sense, but I still have a hard time with one companion. Any more and the game starts to get annoying (I hate managing too many individuals, especially if they're borderline retarded). The main reason is that as a rogue, for some damn reason my character is practically cross-eyed! He can't land a hit for shit, until I'm around level 10. The beauty of being a rogue (or any other stealth based class) is precision not power! It's like they completely reversed the classes (fighters make way more hits and hurts like hell).

I think that's my only real issue with the gameplay.. I just feel too constricted to my incompetent (although useful) companions.

I'm gonna try working on a mod that brings back the joy of individuality in RPG's (kinda like Oblivion)!

[Pugnate]

I will agree with you that NWN1 had a more intense storyline. So far the storyline here is good, very good, but not nearly as intense as NWN1.

Secondly your comments about the parties being too big makes me want to come over and play it with you hehe. I have to show you the joy of the big party.

[Xessive]

I will agree with you that NWN1 had a more intense storyline. So far the storyline here is good, very good, but not nearly as intense as NWN1.

Secondly your comments about the parties being too big makes me want to come over and play it with you hehe. I have to show you the joy of the big party.

Well, there you go another reason for you to come down to Abu Dhabi!

I don't know, I think it's a matter of preference.. While I don't mind working in a team, I would have really appreciated some comprehensive party controls. Setting the (lacking) behaviour options for each individual companion is pretty tedious since I like to change tactics depending on the situation. I wish I could at least tell everyone to stick to ranged or melee with a single button. And it would be nice if the AI could switch to melee attack if the enemies are too close for an effective ranged attack.

The more I play the game the more obvious its flaws become.. First the flaws were just cosmetic, but now I'm having trouble with the AI and the gameplay. Did they test this game before releasing?? I suspect the upcoming patches will be especially addressing issues with the AI.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still frustrated with the cosmetic problems.. The way they designed characters is pure stupidity (which Obsidian admits). I'm only frustrated because it's cosmetic, it's the "easy" part, and it wasn't supposed to be a problem! I think I'm mostly agitated because I'm not seeing any community work to help rectify it (which their not obliged to, it was just optimistically suggested that they might). I'm not normally one to dwell, but it's just such a shame! Gameplay problems they can fix with patches, but the look of the game would require a total overhaul.

I don't like Obsidian much. Everything I've seen from them is sub-par when compared to Bioware, BethSoft, and Arkane. They're a little better than Troika in my eyes though.

[Pugnate]

Man I am just loving this game so much. I am so happy I could cry. It is bliss...

I've had very few issues with the AI since I am doing most of the controlling. Actually I am just controlling the magic aspect. They are doing everything else themselves and doing it well.

[Xessive]

I'm enjoying bits and pieces of it, but I constantly feel like I'm playing an incomplete game, or more or less a really good mod for NWN1.

I'm having some trouble getting over the ugly inventory system. I would have been happier if they just kept the old one from NWN1. I don't know man, I'm just not overly impressed.. Everything just hints at lazy game design. It's really getting to me! My eyes can't take much more of it, I have to figure out a way to improve it. That's my natural reflex to seeing anything that's less than appealing. And unfortunately they made the interface pretty constrictive to redesign. If I were to redesign the icons, I'd be restricted to the icons sizes they made, which are pretty tiny and don't accommodate all the item types.

Let's look at the character design, for example. I'm not asking for anything as detailed as FaceGen (i.e. Oblivion), but if they're going to make a game as detailed as NWN2 (graphically) then they should have made sure that the variety was appropriate. The selection they've given us is pretty pathetic. You even have less options that NWN1 (i.e. body type). Not to mention that they look craptastic.

Overall, it just seems like NWN2 was a poorly thought out project (which Obsidian admits to as well; a lot of bad decisions were made). Perhaps they focused so much on getting the D&D 3.5 rules, the story, and the gameplay that they completely forget about the interface and cosmetics (which made it in as an after-thought).

Considering all that could have gone wrong I'd say they made a satisfactory game. It had potential to be great (and still might), but it just came out like a reheated meal; not quite as good as the first time.

EDIT:
Like I said before, the more I play it the less I like it. I started out liking it (yet acknowledging its flaws), but now I hate Obsidian for making it the way it is!

[Pugnate]

I think maybe you need to take a break from it and come back to it later.

You liked it a lot more the first time around I remember. Yes the character creation sucks, but there is so much depth in the character development aside from that. The graphics are fairly sharp, though the interface is lazy I agree, yet not frustratingly so.

The combat is fantastic and I think the AI is quite good. I think the real battle is enjoying the magic aspect of it all. Once you do that I am sure you will love it a lot more.

I think it is fairly impossible for them to fine tune the AI of the mages to any acceptable level. There are so many... so many spells and counter spells that what can they do? The depth makes for great strategy, but with 1000s of spells, I am not sure how you can fine tune the AI.

I don't know, I am liking this a lot more than Oblivion for example.

I think the other issue is your are playing it on a 800x600 set up? Could that affect the visuals?

There have been a couple of issues I've had.

1. The pathfinding can be a bit frustrating.
2. Buying potions is horrible. You have to buy each one individually and then it deselects every time to add to the tedious nature of the buying system.

That's about it. The A.I. is fantastic so far. If I don't want my mates to attack I ask everyone to 'Hold Position' and they do. When I want them to attack, they do.

I agree with you that there was a certain lazyness to the interface, the graphics etc., but it is easy to look past. The storyline and the interaction between you and your squad is so sweet.

Hey did you try the bard quest in Blacklake? The theater thing?

hahahahaha man I've never laughed so hard.

Here is the correct music sequence if you want:

44124754
234451122
2332233175
35345272725

Once you get that right hilarity ensues.

Anyway I was checking out the forums and most people love the game especially after the patching, but there are those in the same boat as you that didn't enjoy the game as much as yourself because of the focus on party combat.

I think the difference is that the fans wanted NWN1 to be like this. And then NWN got a lot of new fans who were new to the whole thing like yourself, and got used to the whole single player style.

Fans who have loved BG1, BG2, IWD, IWD2, and Planescape Torment wanted something like this originally, but enjoyed NWN1 none the less.

So when NWN2 came around it wasn't alien to them having played all those other games. But people who have started with NWN1 were shocked. They couldn't solo anymore.

I think you can, if you just lower the difficulty level to min. etc.

Man I just want to come over and show you the beauty of the magic. I want you to learn it, though we could always play that monk mod hahahaa.

Hey remember my Orc Monk with that creepy fucking laugh hahahaha?

[Xessive]

Haha yeah man somebody needs to make a Kung Fu mod for NWN2!

I know there are craploads of spells, but I'm sure they can all be categorized easily: attack, area attack, area effect, boost, summon, etc.

I want to point out that I respect NWN2 and the effort that went into it, but it feels like all that effort was wasted for lack of a little more. I would have gladly waited another six months for the game to come in much better shape.

I played the Pool of Radiance mod, and it was a little more focused on playing like NWN1. It was my character with one companion (there was a section with a few more but you couldn't control them). I definitely enjoy that more that dealing with any more than 2 companions.

EDIT:
Here's a recent post by Rob McGinnis that kinda makes me a little optimistic:

Ok.. I will try to clarify this because this is getting out of hand.

The discussion we were having was that many people don't like the way the AI works. My response was:

A. We are working on fixes for it and they will be released soon.
B. The upcoming fixes were announced in an open dev chat held by the Thieve's Guild.
C. I explained how the intended play style is different between NWN1 and NWN2
D. I explained how I had issues and fought the AI myself until I realized the game was meant to be played differently.

You say we tell you basically "Tough. Deal with it." Nowhere has that been said. In fact what you can read from my response is "We hear you and are making changes to address your concerns."

The game was released at the beginning of November. that's about three and a half months ago. Since then we have released four patches and a hotfix. All of these patches have been built around issues raised by you, the community. We have implemented things you all have asked for. Have we fixed everything? No. Even NWN1 is still fixing things brought up by the community, five years after release. We cannot have everything fixed or updated in such a short period of time.

Re-programming systems and building patches take time. Will they come out every three days? No way. Testing even the slightlest change takes longer than three days.

Original thread: Losing Hope

[Pugnate]

I made a thread. No spoilers forum:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=549183&forum=109

[Pugnate]

Here is another thread.

Also I love how the developers are so involved and working to bettering the AI. I just wish people would stop abusing them hehe.

Here is another thread:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=549362&forum=109

[Xessive]

Yo, here's a shot showing the extra-blurry crappiness of the UI I was talking about, and how I sharpened it.



I just don't get why the Hell they made it so damn blurry???!

[Pugnate]

I am in Act 3.

(click to show/hide)

I found it stupid how Shandra was killed off. WTF? And then I love how there is basically no consequence of her death.

[Xessive]

I am in Act 3.

(click to show/hide)

I found it stupid how Shandra was killed off. WTF? And then I love how there is basically no consequence of her death.

(click to show/hide)

I know exactly how you feel. I replayed that segment so many times to try to save her or change her fate. Nothing. I felt exactly like the scientist from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. No matter how many times I went back, I couldn't save her. She didn't even have to die, I was fully capable of handling a demon horde.

The other stupid part about Shandra is that she's supposed to be my "student" but she's a fighter class. And there's nothing I can do about it. I was hoping they'd just make her the same class as me, or at least let me choose one for her!

[Pugnate]

(click to show/hide)

Yea I definitely wanted to save her. I am at the start of ACT 3 and am hoping she was alive or something when we left her. Secondly we should get some closure on her death. No one really mentions it beyond a few things. At the very least I should be able to kill her murderer and not take him on as a party member. WTF is that?

[Pugnate]

fuk yea, just slayed a dragon. It was one of the most epic battles ever... my whole party lay dead except for my arcane archer and Qara. Qara stood till the end... and after many breaches she finally broke the dragon's defenses. Her fireballs and my magic arrows finished the bastard... but it was brutal and awesome both at the same time.

[MysterD]

Sweet, Puggy.

NWN2 rules. I need to give it more time, myself....

But, when they announce a new patch and say what they plan to include, I usually just sit back and wait for the next patch, since there's some feature they always include w/ each patch that'll seem to help me in-game, such as the latest patch w/ the inclusion of toolbars.....then I'll play it for a bit....then when I find out what the next patch includes in their plans, I just wait again for those improvements....
...I don't think I'll finish NWN2 for a few months, the way I'm going.....

Plus, I got a bunch of other games I'm freakin' playin', too.....hehe. Now that I bought Call of Duty 2, I'm actually gonna try and finish Call of Duty 1. And then install the expansion, United Offensive -- and finish that!

Plus, I am also playing Beyond Divinity (without STARFORCE, thanks to their new PATCH!).

And, add Titan Quest on top of it.

And, add Oblivion: KOTN expansion....

Yuh, overloaded....I need more focus!

[Xessive]

Hehe MyD's got a full schedule ahead of him

Pug, that was a cool fight definitely. How the heck does Qara survive with you? In my game she's normally the first go down. She's pretty damn weak, and can barely survive a single hit from anything! That's why I try to keep her far behind, so she can do some ranged magic attacks.

Here's something I could have really used in the A.I. It would be nice if I could set the A.I. to attack strongest/weakest and nearest/farthest.. That's how Dungeon Siege had it too. I'd like to be able to let my A.I. occupy the minions while I take on the strongest enemy.

[Pugnate]

Are you kidding me?

No wonder you aren't enjoying the game as much.

I win 90% of my battles because of her. She is easily the best and most powerful NPC in the game! First thing I do is let myself cast her spells, and I have set her AI so she doesn't attack on sight and stays at the back of the battles.

You know her spell mage armor and stone skin? Every time she rests she should have about 8 of both spells. Cast both on herself and the rest of your party.

Now keep her at the back, and just cast spells bro. She is amazingly powerful.

[Xessive]

The bard usually casts more useful spells. Her spells are ok, but rarely ever come in at a useful time. My favourite mage right now is Sand. he's a lot more reserved, although his signature spell seems to be this green gas spell.. Elanee is awesome except she keeps frickin' shapeshifting. Thank God I discovered the 'return to original form' command. At least now I can get her to change back instead of waiting to rest.

I'm playing as a Monk right now, and I'm glad about the fact that I'm landing a lot more hits. Unfortunately I can't pick locks or disable traps. I'll just let Neeshka do that. I want to get a better feel for Monks in NWN2, so I can really compare to NWN1.

Man, all I want is to play the game like NWN1.. I don't want the idiot-crew I have to drag around in NWN2. At least that way I wouldn't have any A.I. to complain about. I'm betting that if they didn't waste time focusing on the sub-par A.I. and the party gameplay, every other aspect of the game would have gotten the amount of time and attention it actually needed.

NWN2 is supposed to be built like NWN1, so that fans of NWN1 will get NWN2.. If you didn't like NWN1 then you wouldn't buy NWN2.. Just like if you don't like Rainbow Six, you wouldn't buy Rainbow Six 2.. It's just common sense.. Why the hell would they change the gameplay man?!

Man.. That's $50 down the drain.. That's the only reason I'm still trying to enjoy the game, so I don't feel like I've completely wasted my money.. I wish Bioware developed NWN2.. As a fan of NWN1, Obsidian let me down.

[Pugnate]

Man.. That's $50 down the drain.. That's the only reason I'm still trying to enjoy the game, so I don't feel like I've completely wasted my money.. I wish Bioware developed NWN2.. As a fan of NWN1, Obsidian let me down.

I don't know how you can say that's $50 down the drain. You really liked it the first time around which would mean at least 50 hours of gaming. That's far better money spent than most games out there. I don't understand how you enjoyed it the first time and not the second?

Elanee is awesome except she keeps frickin' shapeshifting.

Dude seriously now... why don't you turn her feat usage off? Problem solved. She has no other feats aside from that so nothing lost. I mean I understand if it annoys you the first time, but you are still complaining about something that you can tweak and I can't believe you haven't tweaked yet. Go to AI settings and turn off her ability to use her own feats. That's pretty much the only feat she has.

Let her cast her own spells. Also if you want, go to her spell book and hot key all the healing spells she knows so you don't have to rest between battles. Also there is a spell called flame sword. Try that, you might like it.

Thank God I discovered the 'return to original form' command

Yea you just have to right click while she is shape shifted.

Her spells are ok, but rarely ever come in at a useful time

They all have the same spells. She is more powerful than sand because she is a sorcerer. While you have to have Sand learn spells by right clicking on spells and scribing them to his book and then memorizing them before resting, her stuff is done automatically.

The only difference is that Sand is able to cast higher level spells by learning from scrolls and uses intelligence for casting.

Qara is a sorcerer and her primary characteristic is charisma. She doesn't learn spells, they just come to her naturally as she levels up.

Go to the spell book and just look at the spells. Hotkey all of them one by one and try casting yourself. See if you have fun?

The bard usually casts more useful spells.

He is a bit of a jack of all trades. His spells are mostly party oriented and are designed to just buff up the party.

very other aspect of the game would have gotten the amount of time and attention it actually needed

What other aspects? I think most of the complaints are regarding the AI, which I only see for the spell casting. There has never been an RPG where the AI spell casting was any good, especially when you consider the depth in spells.

NWN2 is supposed to be built like NWN1, so that fans of NWN1 will get NWN2.. If you didn't like NWN1 then you wouldn't buy NWN2.. Just like if you don't like Rainbow Six, you wouldn't buy Rainbow Six 2.. It's just common sense.. Why the hell would they change the gameplay man?!

I think you and I were one of the few people to like the OC from NWN1. Even D didn't like it. You had to be on the forums to see the bitching. People were really really ticked off at not having parties to control in the first NWN. Now I guess the fans are divided between the old and new ones.

Personally I am happy for the changes.

Then again why would a wookie live on Endor?

[MysterD]

I think you and I were one of the few people to like the OC from NWN1. Even D didn't like it.

I liked parts of it, such as the stuff w/ Fenthick and Aribeth and the city of Neverwinter.

It was the whole anceint race rivival thang, I thought, that was pretty much poorly developed and executed, if you ask me, storyline-wise. It felt like it got too much focus. If you ask me, I think it would've been more appropriate for the final battle to have been w/ Aribeth.

The battles with Aribeth, the two dragons, and the final battle with Morag were VERY memorable.

You had to be on the forums to see the bitching. People were really really ticked off at not having parties to control in the first NWN. Now I guess the fans are divided between the old and new ones.

Personally I am happy for the changes.

Then again why would a wookie live on Endor?

I wish the inventory was setup more like say Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity. In that game, every item is blocked off by types. They have their own tabs. So, Armor has its own page. Another page is for Weapons. Another page is for Potions. Another page is for Misc Items. And, I wish for NWN2, items you do have enough *lore* to know, when you rolled over the Item, the stats of the items popped up -- like say they do in the Divinity games, Titan Quest, and Dungeon Siege games.

I'm glad for having more control over my characters in NWN2, myself. It's just, to me, the AI behaviour settings and configurations for the player really do need some more work; as in, MORE OPTIONS. Namely, I could really use some additional AI options -- especially for controlling the wild as can be shape-shifting Elanee. I don't use Qara, so I got no clue how good she is or isn't, since my main character (myself) is a Warlock.

I think the tail issue w/ Neeshka is not too big of a deal, despite it's annoying she lacks one for me -- since I began the game back w/ patch 1.02.

My biggest issue w/ NWN2 is it STILL feels like it could use a performance boost from the designers....

I love NWN2, despite its issues....

[Xessive]

I like bits and pieces of NWN2.. The first time through, I liked the first half of the game.. The story is nice, but by the time I reached the final third of the game I just wanted to get through and finish the damn thing just so I could at least get the whole story, and claim that I finished it so I can have the right to bitch about it!

Now that I know the story and I know where the game is heading, and that I have to drag the party members along it's so tedious.. And it wasn't after I finished it that I started disliking it.. I started disliking the game about ~20 hours in.. But I still had hope that it might improve.. Until I finally finished it and I was not impressed. The bugs are one thing, but at least the bugs I anticipate will be fixed. I just can't enjoy the gameplay. Story and patch-related issues aside, I have a problem with the fundamentals of the game. And I didn't get 50 hours of joy out of it. So I don't feel like I got my money's worth.. I was expecting the game to be the next Neverwinter Nights, but as I've said before, it's just not.. It doesn't play like NWN, and it doesn't cater to me as an individual player.

Regardless of how many people bitched about NWN not being party-oriented, those people are Baldur's Gate (and other similar titles) players.. NWN nights was not made for that.. Similarly, I didn't bitch when Ghost Recon was more action than tactical gameplay, compared to Rainbow Six.. I just accepted that it's the semi-tactical shooter for people who aren't extreme tactical players.. However when Ubisoft fooked with the Rainbow Six franchise and made Lockdown a cheap-ass arcade shooter, then I got pissed off.

So right now I really hope that there will be a Baldur's Gate III and that it will have nothing to do with anything a traditional Baldur's Gate player would expect from a game with "Baldur's Gate" in the title.. just to even things out. Just to let them see how it feels to not get what you thought you paid for. Imagine the chaos on the official forums!

Next step, collapse the economy.. again.

[Pugnate]

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After the death of Shandra the game for me lost plenty of the steam. It seemed to drag on for a while till it started to get awesome again. I loved the first dragon battle, and the second was totally amazing with two dragons. I ran into the valley with my party and to my amazement they followed haha! However they got stuck because it was too narrow muhaha. I then slaughtered them.

The next sweet battle was versus the demon at Shandra's farm. That was really awesome and took me three tries.

I just finished the bit where I have to defend the castle, and now I am off for the final conflict it seems. Anyway the defending the castle bits were awesome. I loved it.

I picked the cleric and Qara as my companions. It was hilarious because I just kept firing fireballs, and using firewalls and they kept getting slaughtered. It was brilliant.

But getting the keep was pretty sweet. The part where you have to get alliances dragged on for me, though the one with Kehlgar was pretty good.

I really think he was the most memorable character.

You know when you have to defend yourself in that case when you are blamed for the murders? That little speech he gave asking to fight for you was awesome!

[Pugnate]

I think they just assumed that all those who were into NWN would enjoy it if it were expanded to play BG2 style, since that is what everyone was bitching about the first time. And everyone was happy with the four member party in the expansions.

Actually I had a question. Did you play the expansions? I think the second expansion gave you a party of four as well.

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Anyway I am in the final dungeon and Nekeesha was kidnapped. God I hope they don't kill her, purely because they don't know how to do it effectively. It will be like this.... oh my god she is dead! Hey is anyone hungry? I know this great Orc Deli.

Also right now I really need a rogue because there are traps all over and they take the only rogue away. W T F?

I am also not happy with having been forced to take both Ammon and Zhajeve for this final bit. I guess they did it to push the storyline, but it is the final mission and I want my favorites.

So right now I really hope that there will be a Baldur's Gate III and that it will have nothing to do with anything a traditional Baldur's Gate player would expect from a game with "Baldur's Gate" in the title.. just to even things out. Just to let them see how it feels to not get what you thought you paid for. Imagine the chaos on the official forums!

HA! HA! VERY FUNNY @$@%@%! STEVIE WONDER IS A MUSICAL GENIUS!

hahaha god I loved that Eddie Murphy bit.

But I think your anger is slightly misdirected. I think yes the BG3 fans would hate it, but I don't think it was their fault. It was a fault of Obsidian for miscalculating. But yea I am pretty sure NWN1s expansions had a heckuva though none were spellcasters, and yes the AI for the spell casting needs a lot of work.

[Pugnate]

Well Xessive I just experienced some of your frustration.

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One thing I've always hated is the path finding. You've got a small army following you and when the paths are narrow then the game does funny stuff. Now I think you play at medium, while I play at hardcore, so my team's magic affects me as well. That isn't so bad when you are casting yourself, but they have forced me to take the bastard Ammon. Now he is a warlock and basically has a whole new set of spells that are unique from wizards and sorcerers, so honestly I don't want to learn it. So I've let him auto cast and there are two problems. He hurts me as well haha... which I guess is kinda my fault. If I am going to be playing hardcore I should be controlling him. I can't expect to play at hardcore and yet not control him. Still the AI needs improvement.

Also it take 15-20 seconds to load and save. Is this normal?

[MysterD]

I think they just assumed that all those who were into NWN would enjoy it if it were expanded to play BG2 style, since that is what everyone was bitching about the first time. And everyone was happy with the four member party in the expansions.

NWN: SOU allowed for a max of 2 party members -- just like the original NWN.

Though, you could have somenon-party members NPC's join you for short time periods, for like a quest or so, in which there could be 6. You had no control over those.

Actually I had a question. Did you play the expansions? I think the second expansion gave you a party of four as well.

Party of 3, which does include yourself in HOTU.