Author Topic: Doom, Quake...now: Rage  (Read 32653 times)

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #40 on: Friday, August 12, 2011, 07:23:05 AM »
About to head to bed and can't really get into the article, but what's the reason behind it?  Better dev tools?  It makes sense that console companies would focus on simplified systems easier to code with and well developed dev tools, making developing games on their platform more enticing and cost effective.  Meanwhile, I don't imagine Intel, Nvidia, AMD/ATI could give much of a shit.

No, the reason is much more basic.  PCs are not programmed directly anymore.  You have to go through an abstraction layer, such as DirectX.  If you code "direct to metal", you may get a 10X performance advantage over the consoles, on one very specific set of computer hardware.  (All other PCs will fail to run your code.  And even if you have conditional code for every other current configuration, which is insanity, next year's PCs will fail to run your code.)  Consoles have fixed hardware, and so they can be programmed at the hardware level without issue.

I used to program direct to hardware, through the DOS days.  Then Windows came out, followed by DirectX, and all the fun went out of getting very limited hardware to sing and dance for me.  Now you have people programming at a much higher level (i.e., further away from the hardware) than ever.  Not only is there the standard DX layer and Windows overhead, but then they add in more layers, such as XNA or (*shudder*) Flash.  2D Flash games on 32-bit systems from 5 years ago perform worse than what I could squeeze out of an Atari 800.  Monumental inefficiency.


I should have plenty of space on my Xbox HDD for Rage. I know the PC will be better in some ways (most ways), but it will still be great on Xbox. Then within a year I should be able to get the PC version for cheap so I can mess with mods and such.

EDIT: lol I only had 8GB free. I deleted some installed disc games and a shitload of demos I never play, and now I have 116GB free.

Heh . . . wow.  From 8 to 116 just from cleaning out old shit.  I'm already piling on some junk, but I'm not going to delete it until I need to, in order to avoid fragmentation as long as possible.  I think I could get back about 20 GB real easy.
« Last Edit: Friday, August 12, 2011, 11:39:18 AM by Cobra951 »

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #41 on: Friday, August 12, 2011, 02:29:32 PM »
Bethesdas Twitter confirms it.
Quote
Since folks are asking... we can confirm that RAGE will use Steamworks on PC
Well, my day is ruined.

Offline MysterD

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Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #43 on: Friday, August 12, 2011, 02:45:57 PM »
Bethesdas Twitter confirms it.Well, my day is ruined.

So, who's gonna bet that Skyrim might also require Steam?
Bethesda's pattern for games they published that require Steam - Brink, Fallout: New Vegas, and now Rage.
I'm betting Skyrim might be next.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #44 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 01:16:42 AM »
So, who's gonna bet that Skyrim might also require Steam?
Bethesda's pattern for games they published that require Steam - Brink, Fallout: New Vegas, and now Rage.
I'm betting Skyrim might be next.
I wouldn't be shocked. Beth/ZeniMax have been strengthening their bond with Valve/Steam over the last year or so. It makes sense for them.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #45 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 07:09:58 AM »
I wouldn't be shocked. Beth/ZeniMax have been strengthening their bond with Valve/Steam over the last year or so. It makes sense for them.
It makes sense for them, given how well their games sell on the Steam service.
Anytime there's a sale or new release for their Beth/Zeni games on Steam, it's in Steam's Top 10 for the week.

Granted, I'd rather deal w/ NO DRM, Steam's much more acceptable as DRM than many and has more worthwhile features than pretty much all of the client-programs.
Though, I still like Witcher 2's DRM from GOG or Retail best - it's been removed. :P

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #46 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 09:58:09 AM »
If Skyrim requires Steam, it'll be another lost sale. I'm so done with that shit.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #47 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 03:09:25 PM »
If Skyrim requires Steam, it'll be another lost sale. I'm so done with that shit.

What if there was way down the line some ridiculous Steam sale for it? [shrug]

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #48 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 10:34:52 PM »
Not unless I succumbed to temptation despite my ideals. I can deal with small indie games that go that route, but there's no reason major games should be tying themselves to that BS. I just can't support it in good conscience. I can't.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #49 on: Saturday, August 13, 2011, 11:30:32 PM »
It sucks when certain games get exclusivity to a service with so many dependencies.

On the bright, but less-than-legal, side you can buy a game then use cracks and/or pirate-copy files. That's what I've been doing to satisfy certain offline scenarios. I know it's questionable but what choice do I have when the companies from which I buy games legitimately treat me like a criminal? It's kinda ironic, the behaviour of these publishers is meant to negate criminal activity but it ends up forcing good, paying customers to resort to such measures to enjoy the products they paid for.

The reason why I preferred getting Steam games is that I always had the option to go Non-Steam if the need arises (and vice versa go with Steam instead).

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #50 on: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 07:21:06 AM »
When I say things like that, I get slammed over the head.  You say it better, I guess.  :)

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #51 on: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 07:55:20 AM »
When I say things like that, I get slammed over the head.  You say it better, I guess.  :)
I don't know why that happens! We're saying the same thing! I am generally inclined to agree with you on most talking points, especially the DRM cases.

Offline MysterD

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Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #53 on: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 05:45:49 AM »
Another gameplay trailer: Gearhead Vault. It's ridiculous how much I want this.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #54 on: Tuesday, September 06, 2011, 03:14:58 PM »
Requirements
Quote
Minimum:

        OS: Win XP SP3, Vista, Win 7
        Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo or Equivalent AMD
        Memory: 2GB
        Hard Disk Space: 25GB
        Video Card: GeForce 8800, Radeon HD 4200

Recommended:

        OS: Win XP SP3, Vista, Win 7
        Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad or Equivalent AMD
        Memory: 4GB
        Hard Disk Space: 25GB
        Video Card: GeForce 9800 GTX, ATI Radeon HD 5550

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #55 on: Wednesday, September 07, 2011, 08:10:16 PM »
Nice @ 25 GB of HDD space requirement.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #56 on: Thursday, September 08, 2011, 01:09:53 AM »
Holy.. How big will the download be?!

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #57 on: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 03:52:00 PM »

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #58 on: Monday, September 26, 2011, 02:57:58 PM »
More on the console versions of Rage w/ HDD space requirements & number of discs game will ship on.

Quote
Rage will span three discs on Xbox 360 and require an 8GB install on PS3, id Software creative director Tim Willits has confirmed. It was rumored that Rage would have a large install and multiple discs on 360, but it seemed as if id was leaning toward a slim-and-trim two-disc set, stating that a separate multiplayer disc-swap would be "fail." id didn't have to pick a disc number for the PS3 version of Rage, effectively utilizing the Blu-ray drive to hold all of the game's gigs, something that Willits seemed very pleased about:

"Sony was great," Willits said. "Kudos to Sony for letting us do that. They don't allow every game to do that. So definitely, hats off. What we were able to do is install all the textures to the highest level. What is nice about the PS3 platform is that it's just one platform. Everyone has one Blu-ray drive, one hard drive, it's all the same. Some of the other systems you have... should I install it on my 360? Should I not install it? So yes, it's very nice."

For 360 versions, Willits said id recommends installing the game to the hard drive, or if you don't have the space for all 22GB, after installing and finishing the first half of the game from disc one, uninstall it, and then install disc two. There isn't a reason to disc-swap after completing the first half, and "you don't really need to install the multiplayer disc if you're really tight on hard disk space," Willits said.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 02:51:29 AM »
Two more weeks till this drops! I can't wait for it but I havent played Gears 3 yet. Damnit!

Offline scottws

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 03:45:43 PM »
Saw the TV spot.  I don't know, I just can't get excited for this.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 10:49:16 PM »
I have to admit, I can't get excited for it either. I think it has to do with iD.

I personally find that this is their first real test in the modern age. I think they were awesome for a time when all you needed in an action game was a state of the art engine and decent gameplay to make a 'great' game. But in this current age, you need more than that to really stand head and shoulders above other titles, for me, at least.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #62 on: Friday, September 30, 2011, 08:26:39 PM »
Kotau talks Frenzy, the collectible card game built in to Rage.

As if I didn't already want this game so bad it hurt.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #63 on: Friday, September 30, 2011, 10:34:26 PM »
God damn it. And Carmack will be at the Mesquite Gamestop for the midnight release on Monday. It fills me with... er... rage. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to throw all ideology and personal financial responsibility to the wind and get it. I can't help it. I try to be strong, but I'm weak. The question is, will I haul ass to Mesquite to get it? It's really not that far......

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #64 on: Friday, September 30, 2011, 11:02:17 PM »
Woah, that'd be awesome. I'm....not sure what I'm going to do. Probably wait for cracks (its Steam, it'll be cracked 2 minutes after it unlocks) and a price drop.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #65 on: Saturday, October 01, 2011, 04:41:48 AM »
Unless the reviews drop a major bomb on it, this will be the first game I get upon release at full price in years.  I'm too much of an id fan to put it off.  Just a short while longer now!

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #66 on: Saturday, October 01, 2011, 04:59:58 AM »
RAGE pre-load has started on Steam.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #67 on: Saturday, October 01, 2011, 05:07:30 AM »
Yea I'm gonna load steam up and let it download over the weekend. Gonna finish Gears 3 and then I'll be ready for this.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #68 on: Sunday, October 02, 2011, 03:04:29 PM »
It's a ~21.5GB pre-load! Frickin' heavy! I gotta remember to back it up so I won't have to re-download!

The Steam servers have been getting hit hard. I've been getting this message "Steam servers are currently too busy to support more pre-loads of RAGE. Please try again in a few hours." Finally today morning I was able to start the damn thing.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #69 on: Sunday, October 02, 2011, 11:22:58 PM »
Yea I had the same experience, I eventually got it going Saturday night, but the download speed was still good and got it done in about 4 hours.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #70 on: Monday, October 03, 2011, 08:37:32 PM »
IGN -> 8.5 score [of 10]
Console version review = Written review; Video Review.
PC Version Review = Written review.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, October 05, 2011, 09:08:04 AM by MysterD »

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #71 on: Monday, October 03, 2011, 09:52:58 PM »
Joystiq crapped on the game (3/5, with the text reading more negatively than that).  It seems to be their meat lately, to trash games others revere.  One thing's certain: someone is dead wrong about the visuals.  I have a strong feeling it's the joystiq guy.

Giantbomb has a long quick look up.  I'm checking it out now.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #72 on: Monday, October 03, 2011, 10:24:26 PM »
Ars didnt like it. Like, at all. And there are currently a lot of complaints with the PC version and terrible pop-in (that interestingly doesn't plague the console versions). I'm worried.

Offline MysterD

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« Last Edit: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 05:09:56 PM by MysterD »

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #74 on: Monday, October 03, 2011, 11:08:46 PM »
Ars didnt like it. Like, at all. And there are currently a lot of complaints with the PC version and terrible pop-in (that interestingly doesn't plague the console versions). I'm worried.

Holy crap @ this vid someone put up showing the texture popping in Rage PC.

EDIT:
Rage PC -> Steam Forums are ablaze w/ complaints for the PC version of this game.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #75 on: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 05:05:39 AM »
Joystiq crapped on the game (3/5, with the text reading more negatively than that).  It seems to be their meat lately, to trash games others revere.  One thing's certain: someone is dead wrong about the visuals.  I have a strong feeling it's the joystiq guy.

Giantbomb has a long quick look up.  I'm checking it out now.

Yea it's Arthur Gies doing the review from the Rebel FM podcast. Also former IGN and now recently moved to Joystiq. He is very meticulous about describing visuals/graphics and controls in games. I typically ignore his opinions when it comes to a games visuals because I think he dissects a little too far. What worries me is that he finished the game in under 10 hours, doing all the side quests as well. The Gamespot reviewer took 20 hours... so I have no idea what to expect now, but I was hoping for something over 10 hours at least.

I'm going to load it up today and see how the PC performance is.

Edit: He also wrote a blog for how he wrote up the review.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #76 on: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 05:13:01 AM »
Ars didnt like it. Like, at all. And there are currently a lot of complaints with the PC version and terrible pop-in (that interestingly doesn't plague the console versions). I'm worried.

PC tech issues aside (which are unacceptable, I'm sure) I'm not comfortable with that review.  First off, id games have never been about story (name one) or character (you don't even see or hear yourself).  That doesn't bother me.  Weak shooting?  That bothers me.  But he never elaborates on that, never describes what he means.  Once he made up his mind that the game sucks on categories he values, he stopped caring about the rest of them, like what id games have always been about--gun battles.

Linearity is disappointing.  A traditional save system is no big deal, and he should be ashamed for calling it broken (unless it really is, as in not allowing you to save--not the case here).

I guess I'm back on the fence about this one, but I don't like to see something get bad grades for a subject it never even enrolled in.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 05:27:10 AM »
Yea it's Arthur Gies doing the review from the Rebel FM podcast. Also former IGN and now recently moved to Joystiq. He is very meticulous about describing visuals/graphics and controls in games. I typically ignore his opinions when it comes to a games visuals because I think he dissects a little too far. What worries me is that he finished the game in under 10 hours, doing all the side quests as well. The Gamespot reviewer took 20 hours... so I have no idea what to expect now, but I was hoping for something over 10 hours at least.

I'm going to load it up today and see how the PC performance is.

Edit: He also wrote a blog for how he wrote up the review.

Quote
Also, as an aside, I just honestly don’t like the way RAGE looks. It’s a huge step backwards from what they were doing in DOOM 3 and Quake 4 lighting wise. It might just be my familiarity with the tech and my viewpoint as a painter, but there’s this constant disconnect in the world that I can’t ignore. Everything is static, existing separately from everything else. Reflections on surfaces are just textures. Objects are lit from a non-existent light-source . . .

And it runs at 60 fps.  60 fps.  On a console.  What he wants would make that impossible.  In a moving, fully interactive, rendered-on-the-fly display, the look of screenshots is only part of the whole picture.

I appreciate that blog.  He comes across as thoughtful and honest.  Like I said a while ago, I'm back on the fence.  I suppose if the game gets the cold shoulder, it will get cheaper soon.  Then I'll buy it.  I can't see not playing this, flaws or no.  I can't see that at all.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #78 on: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 06:31:31 AM »
PC tech issues aside (which are unacceptable, I'm sure) I'm not comfortable with that review.  First off, id games have never been about story (name one) or character (you don't even see or hear yourself).  That doesn't bother me.  Weak shooting?  That bothers me.  But he never elaborates on that, never describes what he means.  Once he made up his mind that the game sucks on categories he values, he stopped caring about the rest of them, like what id games have always been about--gun battles.

GamePro's review speaks a bit on the shooting issues.

Quote
Mutants and bandits alike will try to get in your face and will hunt for you if you start camping. However, your shoot-outs will suffer from occasional glitches, and it's often noticeable to the point of distraction.

In many cases, it's obvious that the PlayStation 3​ and Xbox 360 are struggling to keep up with Rage. Headshots occasionally don't register, there's often a one-second delayed reaction when you shoot an enemy, and melee attacks are hit-and-miss. On several occasions I was spotted from across an empty room, while enemies don't notice dead allies right next to them when patrolling an area. Visually, there are other shortcomings: texture popping frequently occurs in many areas, and our retail PS3 experiment had lots of screen-tearing early on in the game.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 07:23:37 AM by MysterD »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Doom, Quake...now: Rage
« Reply #79 on: Tuesday, October 04, 2011, 08:19:15 AM »
Well, I've been playing the PC version of the game and from a technical standpoint it's a mess. Inconsistent framerates, texture pop-ins, low-res textures, and id have committed the heinous crime of not providing any video/graphics settings at all, the player may only change the resolution (high or low it doesn't seem to improve the performance either).

I've been using some cvars and +set launch options to amend some of the issues but it's not enough. The game is technically playable but just barely.

RAGE doesn't feel like a total console port, but certain aspects were clearly done in a certain way specifically for consoles e.g. the quick weapon menu.

On the bright side the game does exhibit some glimmers of a quality production such as the high-detail and vehicle character models and the highly detailed environments. The gameplay is pretty fun too but the gunplay seems to have some issues i.e. headshots don't seem to work.

Id really needs to fix the issues A.S.A.P. Fans are already writing this one off as a shoddy console-port with poor PC support.

Despite the numerous issues, I've enjoyed what I've played of it so far. It's an id game with a little more character. RAGE feels like id's vision of Fallout, I even found a Valt-Tec boy bobble-head! In terms of storytelling, id feels like a toddler among adults when you compare it to other games. It's just a shame that the potential for all the characters was wasted as the plot seems to just be an excuse to shoot things, which I suppose is fair enough: it's an id game after all.