Topic: Valve's Gabe Newell = Not sure if they'll do Episodic Content after HL2: Ep 3

[MysterD]

Valve is trying to decide on what to do, after HL2: Episode Two is released.

They are not sure if they'll make more EPISODES or finally just do a HUGE game.

Valve: Episodic game plan may not last
Tuesday 25-Sep-2007 3:44 PM Valve to evaluate development processes once Episode Three is in the bag, Gabe Newell tells CVG

Half-Life 2: Episode Three's release could mark the end of Valve Software's foray into episodic gaming, the developer explaining it'll be at a development crossroads once the finale is out in the wild.

Maybe, they'll finally do HL3...

"I think what we really want to do is have a couple of examples out there - Episode One, and how long it was to play and how long it took to develop, Episode Two, Portal and TF2 and then the third part of the trilogy; and then sit down with the community and say, 'OK, so what do you want?'", Valve's Gabe Newell told CVG in an interview set to materialise on these pages soon.

The benefits of episodic releases have included the ability to ship more technology to customers faster than if Valve were still waiting to ship another Half-Life 2-level monolithic project, Newell said. But once Episode Three is out "we just want to sit down with three examples in front of us and talk it over with gamers to find out what they would like us to do next".

Problem though -- Valve takes FOREVER to make an Episode.

"'Do you want us to do more episodes? Do you want us to really tighten down the time frames and look at the scope of what we're doing so that that's possible, for us to go back to the large monolithic projects?'"

I think if they are to do the Episode approach, they need to bank those out frequently -- like what Telltale is doing w/ Sam and Max.

Newell went on to explain that he'd also like to spend time with Sam & Max developer Telltale Games to share experiences with the episodic approach, along with Blizzard whose updates for WoW have been like "episodes in an MMO".

There's a good idea, Gabe....

[scottws]

It's not surprising to me that they are looking to re-evaluate since it's taken them so long to make these episodes.  What I don't get is that it's not like they have to develop a new engine or anything, even textures for the most part.  That's already there.  They don't even have to bother writing a story since the game doesn't have one.  They just have to design some levels, write and record some dialog, and execute.

They've really dropped the ball with this whole episodic thing.

[Quemaqua]

What scott said is exactly what I've been wondering, too.  It just doesn't seem like that much has to be involved.  I just chalked it up to the fact that I haven't tried either of the episodes so I don't really know what the quality is like or how much is really there.

[MysterD]

What scott said is exactly what I've been wondering, too.  It just doesn't seem like that much has to be involved.  I just chalked it up to the fact that I haven't tried either of the episodes so I don't really know what the quality is like or how much is really there.

HL2: Ep One feels like a smaller, more condensed version of HL2. So, if you did expect zombies, the annoying sniper puzzles, gravity gun usage, physics puzzles, lots of action, not many new enemies, not really any new weapon, and pretty much a lot of the same that was in HL2.

Though, no vehicles in Ep One and Alyx was w/ you for pretty much most of Ep One.

We'll see how HL2: Ep Two fends, once it's put out...Hopefully, it'll not be too much of the same...

[idolminds]

Valve just gets too ambitious to keep a short schedule. Major engine updates (EP1 featured one, EP2 features one), all new animations for the "cutscene" actors, too many new assets needing to be created. Its obvious they didn't really plan for this or they would have made some more useful, generic actor animations that could be used over and over for the cutscene bits, and other such things. Keep the need for new customized assets to an absolute minimum. Record dialog, build maps, script them up, and shove them out the door.

I still think HL2 is a little too "high brow" for episodic. It requires too many levels to make anything meaningful, so instead of making a map or two and calling it an episode they need to make 10-15.

I think a more action-oriented FPS would do better in episodic format. Ok, go with me here: You make a zombie apocalypse episodic FPS. Your main content push is up front in the first episode. You make a bunch of dirty urban textures, blood splatters, sounds, a few zombie models, the main guy model, maybe a couple non-zombie people to talk to/rescue or whatever. So now you can develop an "overall story". This is your story arc that connects all the episodes together, like a TV show season. Each episode isn't just a slice of the overall story. It will contain parts of the overall, but also have its own sub-plot. So for example in Episode 1 your girlfriend falls ill and needs medicine, of which your little survivor colony has little. You need to go out, fight zombies to the hospital and find some meds to bring back. Thats the sub-plot. While you're there you overhear a weak radio broadcast about another colony somewhere. Well, a few episodes from now you'll be trying to move your colony to the new one, thats the overall story. So in between you need to gather supplies like vehicles and stuff, then a big "season finale" where you need to get as many vehicles full of people to this new place.

This is just an example, but for episodic it would work well. The "home base" map can be used over and over again, its all in the same city so texture and models can be used multiple times, zombies are used over and over (and each episode could add 1 more to the mix to keep things fresh), no need for new weapons for the most part. And after the finale you'll have a new location so season two can have a bunch of new assets created for it.

HL2 just isn't set up properly to make efficient use of an episodic format.

[Pugnate]

Valve is trying to decide on what to do, after HL2: Episode Two is released.

Make ep3?

It's not surprising to me that they are looking to re-evaluate since it's taken them so long to make these episodes.  What I don't get is that it's not like they have to develop a new engine or anything, even textures for the most part.  That's already there.  They don't even have to bother writing a story since the game doesn't have one.  They just have to design some levels, write and record some dialog, and execute.

They've really dropped the ball with this whole episodic thing.

I most definitely agree with that.

I really didn't see what took Ep1 so long?

[Quemaqua]

Idol, please make that game.  I want to play it.  It has zombies.

Also, it has a girlfriend.  Is she hot?

[idolminds]

Of course. I don't make games with ugly chicks.


So far I don't make games, period. But that may change...that may change...

[Xessive]

Dude, if you start makin' that game let me know if you need a hand with textures and stuff!

[Quemaqua]

I can do voiceovers!

[idolminds]

All right, I've got a dev team forming! Now to come up with an idea thats within our current abilities to make. I have an excellent idea for a point and click adventure game....

[Cobra951]

What game-making tool(s) would you use?  I imagine there's something canned for point-and-clicks out there.

[idolminds]

Adventure Game Studio

I messed with it in the past, it has a learning curve but its not too bad. And if you've played some of the games made with it, you'd know how capable it is.

Other than that I try to keep up on various free engines for game creation. I found a couple for visual novels, text adventures, and a lot of 3D engines for FPS (I'd probably go with one of the open source Quake engines, or Sauerbraten). Though even an enhanced Doom engine could be useful (no animating 3D objects, just make a bunch of sprites).

[Cobra951]

Adventure Game Studio

I messed with it in the past, it has a learning curve but its not too bad. And if you've played some of the games made with it, you'd know how capable it is.

That is sweet.  And free too, even for commercial projects.  I still wonder how anyone makes money in such ventures, or conversely, finds the quality time and talent to complete such a project with no financial backing.

So, are you serious?  Got an idea for a game?  Sounds exciting, really.

[idolminds]

Well, the idea is actually extremely simple, and its sort of "designed" that way because I know anything too complex will never be completed. As it is creating characters and animation will be quite a task. Its a comedy adventure that pokes fun at a current game industry trend, and will be a fairly short game because unlike SNL I don't want to run the joke into the ground.

[gpw11]

I've got a great idea we can pull off;

Angels Vs. Devils.

Like, team deathmatch or capture the flag, but you're fighting over the souls of NPC humans. 

[idolminds]

I know, I still want to make that...

[MysterD]

We should at least three battlefields -- one for Hell, one for Heaven, and one for Earth.

[sirean_syan]

I've got a great idea we can pull off;

Angels Vs. Devils.

Like, team deathmatch or capture the flag, but you're fighting over the souls of NPC humans. 

Didn't someone make that, or start to make that, back in the UT days? I remember seeing trailers for the game back then and I sort of remember it being on the UT engine, but I don't remember ever seeing the game get released.

It looked cool enough. It was more or less UT with angels and demons; people could fly and there was some melee combat with swords and stuff.

On the topic of HL2:ep3 though... so if Valve is leaving the episodic content after Ep3, that means they have to actually make that and after will be HL3 (or something new). I'm going out on a limb here and saying we won't see the post Ep3 game until five to six years from now. Valve is a bunch of lazy bastards who just soak up money for no good reason.

[MysterD]

Oh, yeah -- it took Valve forever to trump out HL2.
A good five to six years, at least.
So, it'll probably take them that long to bring out HL3.

And shit, look how long it is taking them to bring out these HL2 Episodes (all three of them), which originally was going to be one expansion pack called HL2: Aftermath...

[Xessive]

Didn't someone make that, or start to make that, back in the UT days? I remember seeing trailers for the game back then and I sort of remember it being on the UT engine, but I don't remember ever seeing the game get released.

It looked cool enough. It was more or less UT with angels and demons; people could fly and there was some melee combat with swords and stuff.

Angels vs. Devils is the one I played a while back.

There was a "Heaven vs. Hell" RTS game in production but it was canceled.

[sirean_syan]

No, that's certainly not it.

[MysterD]

Ummm....Half-Life Forever?
Would that be related to Duke Nukem Forever?

Half-Life May Never Die
Sep 29, 2007 at 3:20 PM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - 12 Comments
The official half-life of Half-Life looks to be forever, as Valve's Gabe Newell told Computer & Video Games that the company has no plans to stop making games about its original IP.

    Does Half-Life have an end? Do you guys have an idea of how you're going to wrap up this whole franchise?

    Newell: Well, there's specific stories and character arcs or plot lines that we know terminate. We have this bible that covers a lot, and there's a lot of interesting stories to tell.

    Portal, for example, is bringing out stuff about Aperture Science way before we had originally thought we'd be telling stories set in the Half-Life universe.

    We'd certainly love to be working in other universes because any time you get two Valve people together they come up with five game ideas and thirteen universes that they would like to tell and play them in. So there's a lot of Half-Life left at Valve.

Thanks, CS-Nation.

[MysterD]

Looks like Ep Two's ending is already out the bag...

Half-Life 2: Episode Three "Confirmé" [October 02, 2007, 12:41 pm ET] - 12 Comments
Jeauxfrance.com has a snippet about Half-Life 2: Episode Three in the site's native French, offering a "confirmé" that Valve will indeed conclude the shooter series as if that was in doubt (thanks Mike Martinez and Kotaku). A translation of the site, which for some reason includes a spoiler about the ending of Episode Two even before it is available, indicates this information comes by way of the November issue of PC Gamer magazine.

[Pugnate]

Ummm....Half-Life Forever?
Would that be related to Duke Nukem Forever? Tongue

That's your DNF joke for the month. Your quota is up.

[MysterD]

That's your DNF joke for the month. Your quota is up.