Topic: Epic loves the PC

[idolminds]

Hooray!

Still, in an IRC chat conducted yesterday featuring numerous members of Epic's UT3 team, Epic VP Mark Rein finally confirmed that the game will not feature cross-platform multiplayer--at least at launch.

"The biggest challenge in doing cross platform play is syncronizing [sic] the builds such that the build on the PC is 100% compatible with the build on the PS3," said Rein. "Unfortunately (or fortunately) when you [develop] games on console you have a lengthy certification process to go through each time you release anything new."

"We looked at how this would impact our ability to respond quickly to things happening at internet speed on the PC side of the equation and realized that this would not be in the best interests of our very loyal PC userbase," he went on, "because we would constantly be holding on to updates to wait until they passed cert on the console platform."

Rein was sure to note that the feature may see release later on, "after the game has settled down," but "even then the likelihood is small."

Its good to know. That was one worry I had about cross-platform play, patches being held back for console cert.

"Our PC fanbase is of ultimate importance to us. They are our bread and butter," added Rein, possibly addressing post-Gears of War claims that Epic is now a console-focused studio. "We can't let them down or compromise their experience in any way to accomodate cross platform play."

Further addressing the subject later in the chat, Rein explained the heavy PR focus on the PS3 game. "We've been talking about the PS3 version a lot because the game is really something new for the PS3 customers and being able to do mods on consoles is pretty exciting to us," he said. "But we never forget that those mods COME from the PC community and the PC is still our lead platform for UT. So thanks for your continued [support]--you're going to see lots of cool things from us in return!"

<3

On the topic of the editor, one user asked whether UT3 will include a simple, stripped down editor similar to that of Halo 3's Forge. Rein used the opportunity to work in a slight dig at Bungie's tool. "You mean an in-game editor that lets you rearrange the furniture as opposed to the professional tool we actually made the game with?" he asked. "No, we give you the real editor we use and all the power you can handle."

Forge still sounds cool, but that was amusing.

[idolminds]

Chat transcript.

• T2A`: Will UT3`s netcode be as optimized and trimmed as UT2004`s was (for 56k and for 32 players + vehicles) or will it be more balanced for broadband? Could it possibly be dynamic so that, for instance, 12 players or less gets additional bandwidth supplied for accuracy concerns?

[EPIC]Mysterial: the netcode is even more optimized than before and many bugs have been fixed.

I love Epic...

[Xessive]

Man, I respect Epic.

Respet 

[MysterD]

LOL @ what they said about Forge.

That is funny -- but I do think Forge sounds cool, since basically anybody who don't use editors could basically quickly "Remix" an already-made level to your own needs.

I'm sure that trying to "Remix" an already-made level probably wouldn't be too hard to probably do w/in a fully powerful editor like Unreal Engine 3, anyways. Just basically I bet all you'd have to do is load the level, save it under a new different name, and then just use the editor to add shit and move shit around.

[idolminds]

You wouldn't be able to distribute your edited level, though.

Closest thing to do in UT would be to build mutators.

The problem I see with Forge is the problem I see in UT, is it gets hard to find "pure" games since everyone wants to run with various modifiers. Find a UT server thats not lowgrav-instagib. Find a Halo 3 server thats not some bullshit remix. If you're into that popular variant then you're in luck! But if you happen to not like lowgrav-instagib, you're pretty much fucked.

[MysterD]

You wouldn't be able to distribute your edited level, though.

Why not?
Breaking some level-copyright laws here?

Closest thing to do in UT would be to build mutators.

I don't have any of the UT games, though -- so, can you explain a little bit what you mean by that?

[idolminds]

Yeah, you're not supposed to distribute the games assets, the map itself being one of them.

Mutators in the UT series are kind of like mini-mods. They generally don't add new content like player models or maps, but they tweak how the game is played. Though there are some that do add content.

So like, you know the base game. To that you can add the instagib mutator, which gives everyone shock rifles and every hit is a kill. Lowgrav mutator lowers the gravity in the game so you jump higher and sort of float around. Theres Vampire in which the damage you cause to someone else is given back to you as health. Big Head mutator makes your head larger every time you kill someone, which makes you a bigger target yourself.

Anyway theres a whole list of mutators that come with the game and the community make a bunch more. Several mutators can be activated at once, so your server could have lowgrav, vampire, and big head all on at the same time. It can make for interesting variants, but can make it harder to find a game of just pure base UT.

[MysterD]

Thanks for the info, bro.

Appreciate it.

[Quemaqua]

I've always loved Epic, and continued to even through Gears.  I love them less now than I used to, though, and I think a lot of that has to do with image.  But regardless, I think they're a cool group of people, and I'm actually getting gradually more interested in UT3 the closer it gets to release.  It's sexy as fuck, I haven't had a truly great multiplayer DM/CTF/whatever experience in a while, and if UT2k4 was any indication, these guys know how to do it right (especially with good bots to play with when your friends inevitably ditch you to play something else or just plain don't buy the game or when, as idol mentioned, all servers are playing some bullshit variant that isn't actually any fun but somehow remains inordinately popular anyway like Halo 3 ).

[Xessive]

Has anyone here played Pariah? It had an in-game map-maker (actually more like a landscaping tool). Pretty nifty idea, very easy to use, but it didn't seem to take off for some reason.

[idolminds]

I heard the game wasn't that great, so that probably explains the lack of interest.

[Xessive]

I heard the game wasn't that great, so that probably explains the lack of interest.

It was so-so. Decent gameplay, lacking story. It was an alright attempt from Digital Extremes. I'm still interested in seeing new things from DE.

[idolminds]

Werent they making Warpath or something? Or that new one where the ESRB had them pull the trailer?

[Xessive]

Werent they making Warpath or something? Or that new one where the ESRB had them pull the trailer?

Oh that was Dark Sector!

[MysterD]

Has anyone here played Pariah? It had an in-game map-maker (actually more like a landscaping tool). Pretty nifty idea, very easy to use, but it didn't seem to take off for some reason.

BTW, how was that game?

Reviews weren't so thrilling for it.

--MyD

[scottws]

Did you just ask a question and then answer yourself the very next sentence?

[MysterD]

Did you just ask a question and then answer yourself the very next sentence?

I was looking for his opinion, even though I know what most of the critics' thought of it.

[Xessive]

Honestly it wasn't too bad. I'd give a 6 or 7 out of 10. It doesn't have much replay value though.

[MysterD]

Epic's president Mike Capps sounds off on Epic (once) being a PC company, PC piracy, and that the "money's on the console."

Speaking to Edge this month, Epic president Mike Capps opens up about piracy, and why “the money’s on console”. In a frank and open interview on Unreal 4, Gears of War and Bulletstorm, Capps claims that “piracy’s already had its impact”.

“If you walked into [Epic's Offices] six years ago,” said Capps, “Epic was a PC company. We did one PS2 launch title, and everything else was PC. And now, people are saying ‘Why do you hate the PC? You’re a console-only company.’”

“And guess what?” he says, “It’s because the money’s on console.”

“We still do PC, we still love the PC, but we already saw the impact of piracy: it killed a lot of great independent developers and completely changed our business model.”

Capps discusses the rise of free-to-play microtransaction based games, like Farmville, the “biggest game of all right now.”

“So, maybe Facebook will save PC gaming,” he concludes, “but it’s not going to look like Gears of War.”

[idolminds]

The title of this thread gets more and more ironic/incorrect as time goes on.

Come on, UT3 deathmatchy gameplay was on the way out when they released the game so it not terribly surprising it didnt burn up the charts. And a 6 month delay on Gears of War PC port? Seriously now, don't ask why your shit doesn't sell on PC.

[MysterD]

The title of this thread gets more and more ironic/incorrect as time goes on.

Come on, UT3 deathmatchy gameplay was on the way out when they released the game so it not terribly surprising it didnt burn up the charts. And a 6 month delay on Gears of War PC port? Seriously now, don't ask why your shit doesn't sell on PC.

Plus, Gears of War PC wasn't the best performing game upon release, either - namely thanks to the infamous stuttering issue. Let's not forget the "certificate patch" that was needed (to boot the game after a certain date that expired) and the G4WL saved-game issues, also.

[Pugnate]

Epic's president Mike Capps sounds off on Epic (once) being a PC company, PC piracy, and that the "money's on the console."

Can't blame them, and I respect the honesty.

[MysterD]

Can't blame them, and I respect the honesty.

WOW, Blizzard, and Steam would prove to the world there is plenty of $$ to get at on the PC - if you know what the hell you're doing and can figure out the PC market.

I think even Microsoft might have it figured things out on the PC out FINALLY, given what they are trying to do w/ X360, Win 7 PC's, and Win 7 Mobile integration for Cloud saved games compatible w/ each other - and probably why the rumors of Halo: Reach PC and Fable 3 are popping up. I mean, why the hell not? G4WL and XBLive are TIED together already - it's the obvious next step to go for.

Also, w/ what said above - you know, I wouldn't be surprised M$ eventually bring one SKU out there down the line, supporting out the box for some games X360 and PC in the same box - especially since Steam's on the Mac/Windows PC "SteamPlay" kick right now. For M$ to punch Steam in the face, they need to really tackle part of the Windows PC market, too - especially since Steam's also going after the Mac market.

I don't think shipping shit-loads of copies of games to retail's gonna be the answer for the PC market anymore. No, I think shipped a limited supply is the answer there. Also, I think the answer here is digital - G4WL, Steam, GamersGate, GOG, D2D, etc etc. Epic should look at this - there's money to be made in this market and G4WL GOD and Steam might be a place for them to look and see there's money to be made here. I mean, hell - remember when UT3: Black sold like crazy on Steam?

[Pugnate]

They are a business, not a fucking charity. They have people working there with jobs and families.

They aren't expected to jump over hoops to please a difficult market, when there is an easier alternative for them.

CGW/GFW's Sean Elliot did some research the month UT3 was out. While it was at the bottom of sales, it was the no3 pirated game that month behind Crysis.

On the NPD top 10 it was unseen. Where was your top 10 PC list? It was on the TPB.

They should not have have to bend over backwards for a market that doesn't respect their craft.

[gpw11]

Well, neither Blizzard or Valve have had any real significant success in the modern console market, Epic has.  Their business model is most likely based upon this. Sure, UT3: Black sold like crazy on Steam....at 50% off retail price.  Gears 1, Gears 2, and Shadow Complex sold like crazy at full retail. Epic is probably looking at the opportunity cost involved here, so while you're looking at it that they can make 50 cents for every sale, they're looking at it like they're losing 50 cents because those development resources would have been better applied to the more lucrative (for them) console market and they could have been selling games for a dollar.

As for the Xbox360/Windows SKU, not going to happen. SteamPlay doesn't cannibalize sales, a single Microsoft sku would.

[Pugnate]

Yea, UT3 black may have sold like crazy, but that was 80% less than retail ($10 rather than $50 is a case of them just trying to recoup some costs). I doubt they even made all of their money back.

[Cobra951]

They are a business, not a fucking charity. They have people working there with jobs and families.

They aren't expected to jump over hoops to please a difficult market, when there is an easier alternative for them.

Well put.  It's unfortunate, because the PC platform offers the best audiovisual and control possibilities.  The business has to go where the money is.

[Pugnate]

"They have people working there with jobs..."

I know you guys got the gist of it, but I apologize for that poor sentence.

[Xessive]

The core of the problem rests in the hands of the general public, the vast majority, and PC players are in the minority. To a business it's simple statistics. According to the laws of the open market, the people voted with their dollars.

The best we can do is convince developers/publishers that the PC niche is still a viable and profitable venue; ignoring us may cost them more than catering to us.

[MysterD]

Epic talks about the "myth" that they've "abandoned PC" with RockPaperShotgun.com

RPS: You were talking this morning about how frustratingly long it takes to push a patch out on 360 or PS3, yet you guys have been a little bit more resitant to PC of late – a platform where your hands are totally untied in that regard.

Mark Rein: No. Not at all resistant. We’ve released an update to the Unreal Development Kit every single month, with huge amounts of changes and improvements which are obviously going into our engine and making them available to customers, we’ve tested them on PC.

If you look at all the UDK games they’re PC only at this point, and we will eventually see them on other devices. But I think that’s a myth that we’ve abandoned the PC, it’s just not true. I mean, Bulletstorm is coming out on three platforms; we’ve just been in this situation where our biggest franchise has been published by a console-holder, and was a very console designed-IP.

[idolminds]

UDK is cool but its an engine, not a game.

[MysterD]

UDK is cool but its an engine, not a game.

Right.
I mean, was GoW PC port the last game Epic themselves developed on the PC?

About Bulletstorm - that's a PCF-made, not Epic. Mark Rein's acting like they're developing the game and shit...

[idolminds]

Epic didn't even do the PC port of Gears. They handed that off to People Can Fly.

[MysterD]

Epic didn't even do the PC port of Gears. They handed that off to People Can Fly.

Oh, yeah - that's right. Forgot about that.
Shit, was UT3: Black the last PC game Epic themselves developed?

[Cobra951]

UDK is cool but its an engine, not a game.

That was my thought as well.  It's too easy to claim that you love the PC gaming platform when your future doesn't ride on your PC games.

[MysterD]

While the UDK and UE3.0 are important to PC gaming - since MANY games do use some form of Epic's engine - I'd really like to see Epic drop some PC games of their own here, for crying out loud.