Topic: Orange Box and Quake Wars = $38 @ CC (Starts 10/7/2007)

[Quemaqua]

Also, if you're playing a 3 to 5 hour episode of a game and you get bored EVER, you know something is very, very wrong.

[gpw11]

That's a very good point, but to be fair I did play the two episodes back to back.

[Pugnate]

Yes I found episode one to be an extreme chore. Imagine a four/five hour game and literally forcing yourself to finish it. In the end I had about one hour of ep1 to go, and dragged it out for a month.

The worst part was having played HL2 and looking forward to answers, only to find you are back inside the stupid freakin' tower in episode 1. While it did have some entertaining scary sequences, the whole episode was a real drag. I wanted to just so badly get out of the damn city, and finally move the hell along in the story. I actually expected ep1 to begin with Gordon out of the City, and things moving forward.

Unfortunately nothing seemed to happen in episode 1. By the time you finally get out of the city, the game ends!

I honestly think Valve could have combined the best parts of episode 1 and 2, still kept it down to six hours, and yet have made a much better experience as whole.

I think the part with the striders and hunters went on a touch too long personally.  I was getting pretty bored at the end of it, running back from attack zone to attack zone.  For the last few attacks I ended up setting up shop right in front of my base and just letting them come to me.

While I think you are right, for some reason I really enjoyed it. The whole strider attack thing lasted a long while and was quite repetitive, but the time passed by very quickly for me. I think it could have been because I had the game's volume down and was listening to the PCG podcast as I played heh.

GPW what did you think of the very end?

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I found it shocking, even though I could partially see it coming. The death was quite gruesome, and all that blood was unexpected. Plus the excellent voice acting for Alyx made it all the more dramatic, especially as the screen blacked out while she grieved. It was a bit sick.

All the same, I look forward to ep3. I can't say I looked forward to ep2 at the end of ep1.

[scottws]

Maybe that's why I liked Episode 1 and you didn't.  I don't worry about the story, because HL2 doesn't have one.

[Pugnate]

That's definitely it.

[MysterD]

As an action game, HL games definitely succeed in giving the gamer action.

HL2: Episode 1's biggest problem is it's TOO much like HL2: Episode Zero. The physics puzzles, the weapons, the enemies, etc etc; there's barely anything new in Episode 1. It was, for the most part, a rehash of Episode Zero.

About HL games, sure -- there's a plot and all. Good luck digging for ALL of it, since a lot is cryptic and not able for you to assemble any pieces to try and assemble something out of it. It gives you a feel of "Wait until we here at Valve figure out where we want to take it to." Unfortunately, even though the characters have some depth to them, the plot really does lack it -- majorly. Worst of all, HL always tries to act like there's a lot there -- w/ long dialogues and expositions, that over add up to....nothing of much. At least Painkiller, which has no plot, knows what it is "there's no plot, we'll just throw crazy levels and shit at you to blow to kingdom come!"

About storytelling in HL, Often, it feels like a lot of things they just decide to pull out of their ass. HL games never seem to ever explain themselves -- but if they do explain it, it's usually quite late. For example, Episode Zero's cool ending isn't really explained at to why until Episode One actually OPENS. See, at the end of each HL episode/game, you will have new questions that leave you scratching your head. Unfortunately, they don't really give you any clues half the time of where it's going or actually put some of the pieces out there in any way to assemble a nice detailed story; a lot is still broken. Just try assembling something -- uh-oh, a lot of shit is still missing....

At least w/ FEAR (Original), hell -- even if ithe plot ain't spelled out 100% for you what's happening in your face, you definitely can assemble all of the questionable pieces together into something.

As an action FPS, Ep Two is great. And I do love the HL characters, too. But, unfortunately, seems like Valve still ain't great at story-depth.

Ep Two, at the base...

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Y'know, just when I thought Eli Vance was about to explain some shit, Alyx comes in w/ tea...
And well, he says he'll explain things later.
I mean, WTF, Valve???

[Pugnate]

D that will happen again haha.

Yes it is frustrating. It is like a game that pretends that it has a really deep story, when it doesn't.

[MysterD]

D that will happen again haha.

I expect shit like that to keep happening -- Valve doesn't tell us shit.

I'm telling you, they come up w/ cool stuff that they pull out of their ass and decide to delay any real explanations, in hope that you'll go and buy their next game -- in which their next game may or may not answer the cliffhanger(s).

Sometimes I wonder if Valve pulls a plot-element out of their ass and decided not to explain it until later b/c they ain't come up w/ the reason why that event has actually happened yet!

Yes it is frustrating. It is like a game that pretends that it has a really deep story, when it doesn't.

It's a shame, 'cause really that is the biggest weakness in the HL series.

Valve, hire some freakin' writers that explain shit!

[MysterD]

GPW what did you think of the very end?

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I found it shocking, even though I could partially see it coming. The death was quite gruesome, and all that blood was unexpected. Plus the excellent voice acting for Alyx made it all the more dramatic, especially as the screen blacked out while she grieved. It was a bit sick.

All the same, I look forward to ep3. I can't say I looked forward to ep2 at the end of ep1.

I just finished it.

Ep Two Ending

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I didn't expect the ending of Eli to actually occur so soon -- especially since I've been really waiting for Eli to finally tell more info later, which he said a few times already this Episode. So much for that...

The Ep Two ending was dark, bleak, and well-done -- and Pug's right about Alyx; Merle Dandridge's acting REALLY sold it well. Of course, so did the way it was directed work very well, too; w/ the blacking out at the end and you could hear Alyx still talking.

Though, there's another cliffhanger right there, as we still dunno' what the hell Eli was gonna tell us -- at the very least, Eli (well-acted byRobert Guillaume) could've divulged some more info before he died.

Yeah, Ep Two was a hell of a lot better than Ep One, regardless... 

[Pugnate]

Man I finished Portal. The HL2 engine still holds up really well in indoor settings. The portal gun is gorgeous looking, and every so often I'd just pause and admire the weapon textures.

But the game is really sweet, and pretty much the perfect length. I love the ending, and the game seems like it was put together with guys really believing in their project. I was really pleased with it.

[MysterD]

Portal was great.

Portal, End-Of-The-Game Talk

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Nothing was funnier than listening to GLADOS babble on at the very end for the entire time you fight it, while you're trying to figure out how to defeat this thing.

Great end-boss battle, BTW.

And the end was sweet -- I'm really hoping for Portal 2.

[MysterD]

ActionTrip reports that StuffWeLike did an interview w/ Doug Lombardi of Valve.

Stuff We Like: Are there any current plans after Episode 3 to have a Half Life 3?

    Dave L: We haven’t announced anything specific, but Half-Life won’t end at Episode Three – hang on to your crowbars!

No surprise there.

I wonder how "up in the air" HL2: Episode 3 will leave us, leaving us fiending for HL3.
You just know it's coming....

BTW, when the hell will they announce Portal 2?

[gpw11]

TF2 draws me in a bit more each time I play.  The balancing between the classes is amazing once you get over the learning curve (there's no "standard class" so it takes a while to start actually being useful with any of them).  I personally found the secret to having fun with it relies on your willingness to switch classes depending on the situation, and I've become at least passable with all of them (although I never touch sniper or spy).  My personal favorite would be medic, as I think it has the greatest impact on the tide of battle of any of the single units.  After that engineer for sure because you can make or break a defense as engineer.

But the thing that's stupid about the community surrounding the game is the whiny aspect of it.  People constantly bitching about whatever it was that tends to kill them a lot.  The current bitching?  Sniper Wars.  People bitching about how snipers on maps usually end up shooting at each other a lot (this is mainly directed at 2fort which people shouldn't be playing anyways), and thus don't aid their team in any way. They counter the very logical argument that snipers counter each other when nothing else does really, and distracting each other is what enables other teams to make movements by saying that the argument is just circular.  What?

But apart from the bitching, it's a great MP game.

[MysterD]

TF2 is really good MP-stuff.

I just wish Valve would pump out some new maps for this thing. I mean, geez -- the game only shipped w/ SIX maps, as is.

Yeah, I know The Orange Box is supposed to have "episodic" sized new stuff, but God -- Valve, can you deliver us a new official map every now and then???

Thankfully, when I hit a server, often they are using non-Valve maps; so yeah, at least there's other maps swinging around, to keep you playing. It's a good thing for SDK's to exist....

[Xessive]

Well, I finally took the plunge and picked up The Orange Box. Unfortunately everything refuses to install giving an ominous message "The Steam servers are currently busy. Try again in a few minutes." It's been doing that for the last hour.

I don't really know what the Steam servers have to do with installing from a disc but it is infuriating.

Once I get a taste of any of the content I'll let y'all know.

[Quemaqua]

Do I even need to say it?

[Pugnate]

That's weird. The game installed perfectly well for me from the discs after which it updated for a few minutes and that's it.

STEAM is bipolar.

[Ghandi]

X, I got that message when I bought Quake 2 and tried to install it. Have you tried simply quitting out of the program entirely and opening it again? It worked for me.

/obligatory "Steam sucks" comment

[Cobra951]

Do I even need to say it?

No, but say it anyway.  The hate needs to be kept piping hot.  (Notice I didn't say "steaming"?)

[Xessive]

X, I got that message when I bought Quake 2 and tried to install it. Have you tried simply quitting out of the program entirely and opening it again? It worked for me.

/obligatory "Steam sucks" comment

Thanks Ghandi, that seemed to do the trick but I had to install each piece individually i.e. install Episode 1, close Steam, run installer again, install Portal, close steam, etc. That was the case with the updates as well. If I had all of them updating at the same time Steam would just stop downloading and give me the same "servers busy" message; I had to disable auto-update on all but one at a time.

As Que alluded and Ghandi stated "Steam sucks." Frankly, I'm having less trouble with it than G4WL. I'm having a bit of difficulty accepting G4WL.

Anyway, the good news is they're finally installed! Portal is amazing! TF2 is beautifully crafted (haven't had a chance to experience actual MP gameplay yet). Episode 1 is alright so far. I'm enjoying Portal the most so far, it is a real jewel in this pack.

[MysterD]

Okay, for all those who have played and finished Half-Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two....
AND/OR those who just don't really care about Spoilers for the Entire HL2 Series (which is up to the end of HL2: Episode Two, so far)
Click the spoiler tag and check the link that comes w/ it!

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Okay, here's some talk about the storyline for the HL2 + Episodes; including some of the key events and characters.

They talk w/ one of Valve's employees, David Speyrer -- who was once a Programmer at Valve, but is now actually a Project Lead.

[scottws]

Wow that "article" was like something out of Penthouse Letters.  "Oh Valve *schlurp* we love you so much *schlurp* *schlurp*  You guys make the most awesomest games. *schlurp* Are you bad at anything? *schlurp* Everything you do is so awesome"

[Quemaqua]

 

[idolminds]

Games are terrible at endings. In fact, game endings are always shit. Why aren't Valve's?

Are we playing games from the same company? The HL series endings are all pretty shitty. Portals was better mainly because of the song.

[gpw11]

Wow that "article" was like something out of Penthouse Letters.  "Oh Valve *schlurp* we love you so much *schlurp* *schlurp*  You guys make the most awesomest games. *schlurp* Are you bad at anything? *schlurp* Everything you do is so awesome"

AHAHA.  I just read it and agree completely.  The fucked up thing is that they're not even praising Valve on the things they did well, they're praising them on stuff that's either totally insignificant or they did horribly.

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Lets look at this:

Depth to the narrative structure.  Sure, it has more of a story than the other HL games, but that's like saying "this rock is more like a glass of water than that rock."

Perhaps the most satisfying moment was reuniting Alyx and her father Eli. They were always separated by screens which fizzle out. You had a fear they'd never meet. And then it finally occurs in that oasis in the middle of the action.

Yeah, thanks for being a dick tease yet again Valve. It was great being held captive while two people drank tea and talked about pretty much shit all.  It was even greater when I discovered it was just a ploy to get me to think that there's an actual story there.

Alyx

Great, an AI companion.  To be fair, she's a pretty good one in that she's pretty much invincible and doesn't fucking kill you either, but apart from that I don't think she ads much at all from a gameplay perspective when compared to other well done AI companions like those in GoW.  It's not that I don't like having her there, it's just that it's not really even worth mentioning or praising.

The car was a real surprise. It gives the impression of incredible speed, but you always feel in control.

Yeah, it totally was a supri....wait a sec.  Isn't it almost exactly the same as the dune buggy in HL2?  But yeah, apart from that it would have been a real surprise back in 1998 when we hadn't played a FPS with vehicles you could drive around.  Oh, and speaking of 1998, did you actually license the trees for your outdoor areas, or just rip them straight from an n64 game?

Games are terrible at endings. In fact, game endings are always shit. Why aren't Valve's?

Seriously?  No, did you just seriously ask that?  Have you even played the fucking games?

But I do like how the guy pretty much admitted that they have no idea where the story is going and never did.  They just kind of make it up as they go along.

[Quemaqua]

I want to say something negative, but I just can't even find the words anymore.