Topic: Gears of War on the PC is awesome, but Micro$oft suck. (56k warning)

[Pugnate]

It is highly unfortunate that Microsoft continues to tarnish its reputation amongst gamers, by using dishonest tactics. For starters, you can't save the game without creating a Windows Live ID. While you can create an offline ID, which can be used for singleplayer or LAN, split screen gaming is mysteriously missing. And to play on the internet, you must create an online Windows Live ID. But that isn't the bad part.

The big stinker is Microsoft's attempt to nerf the Windows XP platform, in order to make Vista look like a more attractive option. In the display menu in GoW, the option to use direct x 10 visuals is only available when running the game in Vista, which is fine... but unfortunately the option to use anti aliasing is permanently linked with DX10.

While XP is perfectly capable of running anti aliasing, Microsoft have made sure that only Vista gamers can run it in Gears of War. They even packaged it under the lablel of Dx10. Right, so just like Halo 2 could only run under Vista, and Crysis couldn't run direct x 10 visuals in XP, -- which it can run at better frames with a hack, as illustrated by gamespot -- Gears of War can only use anti aliasing in Vista.

But that's not the pathetic part.

Unfortunately, there are no real direct x 10 improvements for Gears of War, which you can read about here. So what the geniuses at M$ did, was to package anti aliasing under DX10 so that it looks better. Now since I dual boot, I do have the option of running of running it on Vista. But as you can see from that last link, with anti aliasing off, the performance in Vista is just worse. It is funny how Microsoft are incapable of doing what's right for PC gaming.

But now I finally know what the hype was about. I had never played or seen the game in action while it was on the 360, and man is it amazing. It is pure non stop action, and fantastic fun. Most fun I've had with a 3rd person shooter since Max Payne, though the game involves action in both first and third person. The gameplay while repetitive, works beautifully.

The visuals are stunning, both on a technical and an artistic level. The look is very similar to something from Frank Miller's 300 or TDK, while the gore is oh so sweet. The music is epic as well. After I finish, I am definitely hopping on for some multi.

[idolminds]

The anti-aliasing in DX10 only thing is apparently a limitation of Unreal Engine 3, or DX9 depending on how you want to look at it.

Epic: Unreal Engine 3 uses deferred shading to speed up the calculation of dynamical lighting and shadows. Integrating this feature together with multi-sampling requires control of the edge-smoothing at a much deeper level than the DX9 interface can provide. So, on the PC, multi-sampling will only be supported under DX10.

Blame Epic for that screw up. Its their engine. Though I think the "on the PC" clarification is interesting. 360 doesnt have DX10, but I didn't hear anything about aliasing in Bioshock, Gears, or other UE3 games. So they are getting AA without DX10. Why not for PC?

[iPPi]

The campaign, while fairly short, is really fun, especially on coop.  The versus multiplayer is not that fun.

[Pugnate]

OK now I feel a little foolish about blaming MS.

[Quemaqua]

MS sucks regardless of how you look at it.  I hate that herd of money-grubbing dickfarmers.

[Pugnate]

hahaha... I laughed out.

And Idol, check out "AnnoyedDragon"s response.

http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29129

I suppose you can still blame them on some level; since they rushed out Vista they didn't finish DX10, DX10.1 is what was originally intended to be included but didn't make the cut because of the accelerated release date.

How is this related? DX10.1 includes MSBRW (multi-sample buffer reads and writes) which gets around the deferred shading + AA problem in all DX10.1 compatible games. If they included this with the original release the likes of Bioshock could use AA properly without unstable tweaks. I don't know what they did in GOW to get AA and deferred shaders working together, but if Microsoft didn't rush Vista out early we wouldn't be having any of these problems.

[MysterD]

I'll buy this game when it gets cheaper. I am looking forward to it.

About AA being hidden in DX10 in Vista only -- ummm WTF???

Can you do like the old days and force AA on w/ your video card settings in say your Nvidia or ATI panel like right outside of the game?

[Jedi]

Can I just add that Vista was delayed big time piror to release, so I fail to see what was rushed or accelerated!
But yeah this whole DX10/Vista only business blows and I've got nothing new to add.

[Xessive]

You can actually save without an online Live ID, and that's by making an offline profile. Which is still irritating, and cleverly deceptive.

The game is awesome, but M$ made it so awkward to play normally. Apparently most of the problems and crashes stem from the G4WL (Games For Windows Live) loading up with the game.

[idolminds]

GoGamer madness sale of Gears of War (Import) for $33

[Pugnate]

So worth it.

[MysterD]

As long as Microsoft don't shut your game off if they find out you got a UK Key Code when you sign onto Windows Live.

Microsoft, Valve -- yeah, what's the difference?

[gpw11]

I totally just bought this on a whim.  I have to stop buying PC games.

[Pugnate]

Haha... well... once I finish the singplayer missions, maybe we'll meet online.

[gpw11]

Yeah, for sure.  By the way, did it take quite a while to install for you?

[Pugnate]

Oh yes. The installation time was far longer than I expected. In fact I don't know what it was doing towards the end.

[Xessive]

I think it took about 20 minutes or so to install.

[gpw11]

Oh my god, the game is awesome.

[Pugnate]

haha... had you seen it before on the 360? I hadn't, and instantly discovered what the hype was about.

[Quemaqua]

After your first run through it, however, expect to realize just how much potential it wasted.  Great game, but I wonder if the inevitable sequel is going to fulfill the promises of the first.  My guess is no.  It'll still be awesome, but... the shortcomings are more glaring to me when I play it now.

[scottws]

I played it and loved it on the 360, and I also ordered it during the madness sale for the PC.  Impressions of the PC version will follow.

[Cobra951]

I have it for the 360, and I did play through it a couple of times.  It's definitely well done.  I'm not a fan of tightly scripted squad games, though.

[Pugnate]

I just have one complaint. The squad thing is very superficial. There need to be more commands, and what commands there are, aren't followed mostly.

[scottws]

There were commands?  I don't even remember that.

[Jedi]

I didn't feel that this was a squad based shooter but more a frantic shooter where you have a squad. I certianly never wanted to get tactical with it like I did with R6V.

[Pugnate]

Agreed Jedi. I know it wasn't at all a squad based shooter, which is why I found it weird that there were commands at all. If they were going to the trouble of implementing that, they shouldn't have been so half assed about it. The AI seems to have trouble following any of the basic commands on offer.

But yea this is pretty much the only complaint -- and a minor one at that -- so far. Of course I've only played for about three or four hours.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, it's just an action game.  Too heavily scripted, yes, but I don't think the squad thing has much to do with it.  It would be just as overly scripted even if it were just one dude.  That's my only complaint though, really, aside from how much deeper they could have gone with story and backstory.  They dangle all this interesting stuff in front of you then totally settle for completely inane combative bullshit ("story"-wise) with your fellow tree-trunk-necked friends.  I was expecting that, but I wasn't expecting to be let down when they didn't deliver on the promises of the interesting nuances that they'd given the world and the main character.  I wanted to know more about Marcus's past, maybe see some flashbacks to times when the world wasn't broken, see some past stuff about his trial, etc.  It almost seemed mean to talk about it for 5 seconds then totally ignore it for the rest of the game.  That's part of what I hope the sequel will address.

[scottws]

That's true, they really didn't flesh out the story very much at all, did they?  They hint that more will be revealed in a sequel, but will it?  I don't see how that could be the case if it is anything like Gears of War is.

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.  I want more story, but a lot of people would probably balk if they added it since they would only be interested in more action.  I mean I want the action too, but I'm curious about some of the stuff they alluded to.  It honestly had a pretty cool setup and world.  I want to see more of it!

[gpw11]

Well, it's very disappointing to find out they don't really touch on a lot of that stuff, but considering how good the action is, I can certainly deal with it.

Word of warning to those who plan on buying this for PC:  make sure you sign up for an online LIVE account before starting.  I lost my saves using the offline one, which is a bit of a bitch but I really don't mind playing through the first hour again.

I did notice that the AI seems to operate under the same script principles as that in FEAR.  You tend to get flanked a lot, but it seems that the flanking only occurs because of the AI's prime directive (I think) of moving to the closest cover, and the levels are set up in a way that when they do flank you it's because the things to hide behind on the outside of the area are closer together than the things to hide behind in the middle.

[MysterD]

It is highly unfortunate that Microsoft continues to tarnish its reputation amongst gamers, by using dishonest tactics. For starters, you can't save the game without creating a Windows Live ID.

WTF kind of shit is that?!?!?!

The MP portion should be the only thing caring if I create a Windows Live ID.

Word of warning to those who plan on buying this for PC:  make sure you sign up for an online LIVE account before starting.  I lost my saves using the offline one, which is a bit of a bitch but I really don't mind playing through the first hour again.

That's some major bullshit for a SP game.

At least for The Witcher, REGISTRATION is Optional.

[gpw11]

Well, that's not really true.  I played through the first hour or so, saving, logging out and coming back, without signing up for windows live.  You can't save the game unless you create a profile, which can be an online profile (your windows live ID), or an offline one (like the profile for any other game that saves to a profile).  The thing is that if you start with an offline profile, and then go and make that same profile an online one, you lose your saves up until that point for whatever reason (I'd imagine it'd have something to do with stopping people from 'stacking achievements'.  Also, to be perfectly fair, you are warned about this, I just misunderstood what they were saying.

[MysterD]

Well, that's not really true.  I played through the first hour or so, saving, logging out and coming back, without signing up for windows live.  You can't save the game unless you create a profile, which can be an online profile (your windows live ID), or an offline one (like the profile for any other game that saves to a profile).

Got cha. 

The thing is that if you start with an offline profile, and then go and make that same profile an online one, you lose your saves up until that point for whatever reason (I'd imagine it'd have something to do with stopping people from 'stacking achievements'.  Also, to be perfectly fair, you are warned about this, I just misunderstood what they were saying.

Ahhhhh...I get it.

So, if you wanted, you can have a separate offline profile for SP and a WinID profile for just MP?

[gpw11]

You could, but there wouldn't really be any point to creating an offline profile unless you never wanted to go online anyways.  I imagine the idea is that you can have your one windows LIVE profile to use for all the Games for Windows games, which isn't a bad idea at all really.  You don't have to do that, and you can just make an individual offline profile for each game you buy, but what's the point unless you really never plan on going online?

And yes, I'm fairly certain my saves would have remained intact if I had chosen to keep my offline profile offline, and create an entirely separate online one.  I just didn't really think about it that much before hand.

And I don't know if it's been touched up here, but online co-op is fully available on a free silver subscription.  It's also pretty fun.

[scottws]

Gears of War handles saves weirdly anyway.  I remember on the 360 version I invited my friend to play co-op in my SP game a few times and when I went back to play my SP game by myself, it started from the beginning.  I never really figured out why that happened or what I was doing wrong but it happened each time I invited my friend for co-op.

Luckily I wasn't very far at all into the game at the time.

[gpw11]

Whacked.

Anyways, after playing this, my opinion of LIVE is completely different.  In my mind it's about 1000X better than steam.  Having come to that conclusion, I don't really mind MS pushing live so much.  I figure that chances are we're moving towards these integrated online and content delivery systems even if I'd much rather use the old system.  Given the choice between Steam and Live, I'd much rather deal with Live.

[Pugnate]

WTF kind of shit is that?!?!?!

The MP portion should be the only thing caring if I create a Windows Live ID.
That's some major bullshit for a SP game.

At least for The Witcher, REGISTRATION is Optional.

Dude seriously... the very next line... you should have read it:

While you can create an offline ID, which can be used for singleplayer or LAN, split screen gaming is mysteriously missing.

I lost my saves using the offline one, which is a bit of a bitch but I really don't mind playing through the first hour again.

I know. I find that to be B.S.

Furthermore some friends came over and I wanted to show them the game. I couldn't start from the beginning without losing my progress.

So, if you wanted, you can have a separate offline profile for SP and a WinID profile for just MP?

No you can't from what I gather. You can create one profile... and if you made an offline one, and want to go online, then tough.

[gpw11]

I'm fairly certain you can have more than one profile on one machine.  I'll check on that right now.


EDIT: Yes, you can have multiple profiles on one game.  I have an offline one and a LIVE one as of right now.  Although....I didn't check that my main profile's saves are fine.  FUCK

[gpw11]

Sweet, saves fine, so that settles that.

[Cobra951]

Live is painless, except it's very strict about your saves and about keeping your games synched to the latest build.  The idea is to prevent cheating online.  On the 360, it's often impossible to create duplicates (backups) of your save data.  And you can't reject game updates and stay online.  You get kicked off until you accept the update.  I can see how going from an offline to an online profile might screw up your saves, but only because someone didn't do their job completely.  They should have differentiated between single-player games and anything having to do with online gaming.