Topic: Something that makes your head hurt.

[Pugnate]

Questions that have been giving me headaches since I was a child:

If god created us, who created him? If there is some thing that created god, then what created that?

Why is there anything at all? What started it all? And then what started that? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! What initiated the beginning of time?

None of this makes sense. I guess we lack the capacity, or just the knowledge.

[Cobra951]

We don't know.

We will die without knowing.

Those who think they know are deluded, because they can't possibly know.

Those are my answers.

[PyroMenace]

Yea, I always wonder if there is a limit on what is the smallest particle. Electrons, Protons, Quarks and Gluons... but what are those made out of? How far does it go, does it end?

[Pugnate]

We don't know.

We will die without knowing.

Those who think they know are deluded, because they can't possibly know.

Those are my answers.

Well religious people believe that God exists outside of time... And science says that the universe had a beginning. So it is conceivable that god put the universe in motion, but then what put god in motion?

How can anything exist without a beginning? Why is Cobra so awesome?

Questions that hurt my head.

Yea, I always wonder if there is a limit on what is the smallest particle. Electrons, Protons, Quarks and Gluons... but what are those made out of? How far does it go, does it end?

What if deep within, so tiny, that we can't see, there are entire civilizations within these?

What if the universe is inside something that to us is humongous beyond comprehension, but is tiny as an electron to another being? haha

[Ghandi]

Taking that a step further, Pyro, if the universe ends at some point, what is beyond that?

I'd like to think that whoever "made us" (for lack of a better phrase) had a sense of humor in knowing that we would ask these very questions and never get answers.

Edit: Pug, lay off the pot.

Edit2: "How can anything exist without a beginning?"

The idea of time is relative to this universe. Outside of it, it is possible that there is no beginning or end, there simply *is*, since time doesn't exist.

[Pugnate]

What if something triggered the beginning of the universe, but had no direct hand in the birth and evolution of the creatures within?

The idea of time is relative to this universe. Outside of it, it is possible that there is no beginning or end, there simply *is*, since time doesn't exist.

Nooooo that's not true. That's impossible!

[WindAndConfusion]

Why is there something instead of nothing?

And why this particular something?

[Pugnate]

Your long awaited arrival in this thread was largely anti climatic.

[Ghandi]

Why is there something instead of nothing?

And why this particular something?

How could there be nothing without something?

[Pugnate]

Also how can people sweeping crap on ice be considered a sport?

[Ghandi]

Well, that's easy.

[Anything] + Brooms + Beer = a sport.

[Pugnate]

Breasts + Brooms + Beer = _______

[Ghandi]

Come on Pug, you can do it. Fit it in the equation.

Also, I'm happy that this thread turned into a discussion on breasts and beer. What a magnificent turn around.

[Pugnate]

Come on Pug, you can do it. Fit it in the equation.

A dirty dead woman at the morgue on the mortician's birthday?

Also, I'm happy that this thread turned into a discussion on breasts and beer. What a magnificent turn around.

And look... my headache is gone too!

[Cobra951]

I was about to bring up my theory that time is an abstract concept only, and so discussions about time travel or existing out of time are moot.  But I don't want your headache to come back.  I like breasts and beer too.

[Quemaqua]

I heartily endorse the direction in which this thread has gone.  It's easier.  I like easier.

[Ghandi]

I was about to bring up my theory that time is an abstract concept only, and so discussions about time travel or existing out of time are moot. 

But isn't time merely change over a specific period of time? How can it be abstract when change is concrete?

I mean, uh...

[Pugnate]

WHERE IS TEH BROOM?

Well I suppose her locks could be used as such.

[Ghandi]

Surprisingly "breasts + beer + broom" turns up very little on google image search.

[Pugnate]

Yea I realized first hand as well.

[Quemaqua]

I think idol is the man to rectify that problem.

[Ghandi]

I'm scared to think about the places that he will photoshop in the broom...

[Raisa]

God's God..  He doesn't need to come from anywhere..

[Pugnate]

Question everything!

[Xessive]

What's the youngest you can die of old age?

[Pugnate]

If you have that disease where you age extremely fast, then I think you die of what looks like old age, before you hit 10.

[Cobra951]

But isn't time merely change over a specific period of time? How can it be abstract when change is concrete?

There is no period of time.  There are memories in our brains formed as some sort of chains.  They cover physical space, which is authentically a set of dimensions.  We need time to understand reality.  That doesn't make it reality on its own.  And no, it's not like the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it.

But in more pertinent news, barmaid fined for crushing beer cans with breasts!

[Raisa]

What's the youngest you can die of old age?

Some people in young bodies are old.. so they die old...  some people are young but their bodies are old...  so they die young

[Ghandi]

There is no period of time.  There are memories in our brains formed as some sort of chains.  They cover physical space, which is authentically a set of dimensions.  We need time to understand reality.  That doesn't make it reality on its own.  And no, it's not like the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it.

Can my time then differ from yours? Can a minute for me be a year for you? Using it as a means to an end subjugates it to our own individual realities.

Edit:

[Antares]

Time is both necessary and relative in our universe.  Without it everything would happen at once, and we could have no cause and effect.  Time isn't an abstraction, its an interwoven part of the universe.

for more information Look here

[Pugnate]

After reading your comments, I was interested in more information and thought the link you provided made an interesting argument.

[Cobra951]

Time is both necessary and relative in our universe.  Without it everything would happen at once, and we could have no cause and effect.  Time isn't an abstraction, its an interwoven part of the universe.

for more information Look here

Without the concept of time, we couldn't explain to ourselves why everything doesn't happen at once.  Our puny minds need it.  The only thing that actually exists is what we call the present, now, or this moment.  Everything else is either dreams or memories.

[Antares]

since everything doesn't happen all at once, time must exist.

I suggest The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking for an excellent explanation of how physics views time.

[Ghandi]

I suggest The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking for an excellent explanation of how physics views time.

I'm actually going to pick that up. I need a new book to read.

[Cobra951]

Notice how convoluted the whole relativity thing is?  Once upon a time, there was a very convoluted model of planetary motion.  It had wheels within wheels.  Planets were supposed to move along these weird corkscrew paths, just so that the Earth-centric model of the universe would work.  Then someone decided that the Sun was actually at the center of the solar system, and the movements became much simpler.  By forcing things to fit into a preconceived notion, the rules become ridiculously complex.  Look at it another way, and everything gets way simplified.  Occam's Razor comes to mind.  The simplest explanation is probably the correct one.  We are in a period of development where we are forcing things to fit into this crazy theory involving the speed of light and 4-dimensional space-time continuum.  The day will come when someone visualizes reality in a more reasonable way.  Do away with this quantification of time, as if it were as real in a physical sense as a stone, and you may have a better chance of getting a glimpse at the truth.

[Antares]

Interesting, I've never really heard that argument before.  Actually, many physicists sing the praises of the elegance of relativity.  Both general and special relativity have very simple concepts, but can become complicated when trying to apply them.  The mathematics behind general relativity is apparently incredibly complicated.

It doesn't get more elegant and simple than e=mc^2 though.

Edit:  I'll also say that there is tons of convincing experimental evidence that prove the theories of both general and special relativity, that could never be explained using newtonian physics, I'd never insinuate that relativity will never be replaced by a different better theory, but it is certainly the best model of the universe that we have today.

[Quemaqua]

 ...

I like books.  Imma go read sum.

[Ghandi]

The day will come when someone visualizes reality in a more reasonable way. 

Will it? Has anyone "visualized reality" any better today than they had in the past?

We will always be handicapped by what we collectively assume we know. Even though we have the capacity to learn more, we will always be limited by what our brains are capable of understanding based on what our limited understanding of the universe / beyond is.