Author Topic: Left 4 Dead (Read 58356 times)

W7RE · « **Reply #160 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 02:27:05 AM »

Yea, I'm not sure how they could say this game has any sort of story to it. Really there's 4 different scenarios in the game. Each one has like 4 maps, and involves you moving from area to area and finally reaching safety at the end. All 4 scenarios are completely cut off from eachother and play out as if the others never happen. They came up with an idea to have you fight to a rescue point and be done, then they came up with 3 other locales for you to do it in (the 3 other scenarios).

Yea, it's short, but it ends up being very "pick up and play", which is great for multiplayer coop. Ever tried to run through a game on coop before? It takes a while, and you have to keep coming back to it when you both have time. In L4D you just jump into zombie land for an hour or two and have some fun. It also means if Valve would put forth the effort, it would be ridiculously easy to expand the game via DLC. Just add more scenarios.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #161 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 07:56:15 AM »

Well, thankfully, that seems to be their idea. And it's 5 maps, not 4. The game has a total of 20 maps, 5 for each campaign/episode/whatever you want to call it.

But I agree with Pyro. Despite my annoyance with how often they refer to story, they did a remarkable job making the characters interesting and believable. I mean, these are just dudes you control in an FPS... personality wasn't *really* that necessary, but it really adds to the replayability because of how their dynamic and random conversations work. It keeps things entertaining and personable sometimes even when action isn't going on, and it does make each character a hell of a lot more distinct.

And like he says, I'm glad there isn't a story. The game is simple but I think that's to its advantage. You wouldn't want it complex, it would make things get stale. As it is, I'm not tired of replaying these same scenarios over and over again. They're just so fun! So I don't really need or want some big story... I just wish they'd stop talking about how much effort they put into something that isn't there.

Valve has this problem of thinking they know more than they do. They think they're the biggest brains in digital distribution, when as far as I'm concerned they have the worst and most buggy platform. They think they know about setting scenes and telling contextual stories, but they haven't even covered a fifteenth of the ground that Bioshock did in that regard. Or even the Metroid Prime games. And if people would stop sucking their dicks and telling them how perfect Steam is and that Half-life 2 has the best story ever, maybe they'd actually learn what they need to do to improve.

Pugnate · « **Reply #162 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 11:43:11 AM »

Not to derail this thread too much, but you hit the nail on the head with the penis stroking on Valve's storytelling. Everything else, I can take and can accept as a matter of opinion. But "Valve tells a brilliant story" is a bit too much.

Pugnate · « **Reply #163 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 11:49:39 AM »

Quote from: Quemaqua on Monday, January 05, 2009, 01:43:16 AM

I love this game, but again, just like with HL2, I really wish Valve would stop pretending like it has a fucking story. They go on and on about the story it tells and how important story is to them and blah blah blah... shut the fuck up! This game has no story. Yes, it has a nice setting and some good background, and even some decent character personalities, but IT HAS NO STORY. IT HAS NOTHING EVEN RESEMBLING A STORY. It barely even has a coherent progression. Oh, you rode off in a boat at the end of the 2nd campaign, and then for some reason at the start of the third you're in some kind of... greenhouse? And you didn't even just walk into the greenhouse, you're in a boxed corner of it with no door surrounded on the other side by zombies.

If I have to hear about this game's "great story" one more time I'm going to feed Gabe Newell to a tribe of starving natives in Africa somewhere.

OK how are you guys adding servers and seeing pings? I find the multiplayer matchmaking options to be extremely thin. Is there is some option of changing them to an advanced view? I can't see a list of servers etc, and have to rely on STEAM to do an automatch. Even when I join one, I see pings in shades of color, rather than numbers. WTF? It is like I am on Xbox Live.

edit:

OK looks like I am not taking crazy pills:

http://www.left4dead411.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=9&topic=5064&page=0

edit 2:

OK so it isn't too hard to work out. The strange thing is that while I can easily find servers with pings of around 100, matchmaking seems to find the worst latency servers. Anyway I will be looking up the OW server next.

MysterD · « **Reply #164 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 03:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Pugnate on Monday, January 05, 2009, 11:43:11 AM

Not to derail this thread too much, but you hit the nail on the head with the penis stroking on Valve's storytelling. Everything else, I can take and can accept as a matter of opinion. But "Valve tells a brilliant story" is a bit too much.

Valve has always been about more style than actual substance.

Valve is excellent, I think, at creating characters and dialogue. I find myself finding ways to often relate to them and/or caring about the characters -- unlike many other games I've played. And yes, they often picking the right voice-actors to supply those roles, too. I mean, look at "Benson" as Eli Vance, for example -- perfect casting there.

Usually, they carve out a pretty good plot itself. Not the plot-depth related stuff, but the premise is usually really good. But, they just don't finish stories. Everything they do seems episodic in nature, despite its length -- or lack thereof length, in some cases. I mean, look at the endings to most of their games -- i.e. HL 1, HL 2, HL2 Episodes, Portal; does every single thread in each of those actually get resolved?

Usually, NO -- there's always at the very least one thread still left dangling. And usually, they leave it hanging flat out as the very last beat, in front of your very own face, too -- some love that it amps them up for a sequel and/or another installment, while some probably are (like myself saying "complete the story here", while some probably are torn b/t both (on one hand, the ending's great b/c its ingenious on one hand, but another hand it just doesn't finish the story) . I think you'll find, most people lean towards the last two -- being torn b/t both or pissed off that the game ended with not too much resolved.

Now, I really can't speak for L4D yet, of course....

Pugnate · « **Reply #165 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:07:53 PM »

MysterD · « **Reply #166 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:21:08 PM »

Hey, that's close to one of Morte's line that he says when The Nameless One dies...
"Talk about beating a dead horse."

Pugnate · « **Reply #167 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:34:59 PM »

MysterD · « **Reply #168 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:45:02 PM »

Took you long enuff to FINALLY do something with my current pic.
About damn time.

W7RE · « **Reply #169 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:45:48 PM »

What the fuck are you holding in your pic anyway? It might make the look on your face make sense to know what's in your hand.

MysterD · « **Reply #170 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 04:49:35 PM »

Fallout 3 Collector's Edition PC (lunchbox-sized game case)

Took that pic day 1 of its release; the day I bought it.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #171 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 06:31:15 PM »

Anybody wants to play, I plan to be on later tonight. I'm itching to try expert, which I'll probably fiddle with if I'm alone just to see how horrible I am and how hard it is... but if some of you other dudes want to come play, please do!

For ease of reference: 76.126.116.56:7778 is the server, and the same at port 7777 is for Teamspeak (and I always include that, though voice chat is by no means a requirement to play... I can't use it late at night, and the game has lots of options for those without voice chat).

angrykeebler · « **Reply #172 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 07:11:29 PM »

can you send me a PM when you are ready? thanks!

PyroMenace · « **Reply #173 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 07:48:30 PM »

Argh... Im dying to play some more, especially to see how expert is, but Im stuck at work. Well Im off thursday, I hope Idol even gets the disk by then.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #174 on:** Monday, January 05, 2009, 08:15:10 PM »

Lemme know when you get home, Pyro. If it's early enough we might be able to at least get a couple of maps in.

I'll PM you in a bit, keebs.

EDIT - Keebs and I had fun. We tried a couple maps on Expert and got mauled like bitches, mostly because friendly fire becomes INSTADEATH on Expert. Watch the errant shotgun fire. Your friend's face depends on it. Then we tried some versus mode with some friends of his, and we again got mauled. They were really good, and the random internet people who joined our team sucked ass. Oh well. It was fun anyhow.

Also, Zero Punctuation review! It's amusing, and actually much more positive than I'd thought it might be.

PyroMenace · « **Reply #175 on:** Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 08:33:06 AM »

Noticed an interesting achievement, its at the bottom of the list, Outbreak. It says catch a rare strain of virus and spread it to someone else. From what I looked up, it started from some of the Valve employees playing and they spread it by playing as the Boomer by vomiting on people, then they do the same and so on... I guess they are seeing how many play online with random people to those that strictly play with their friends.

MysterD · « **Reply #176 on:** Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 03:18:27 PM »

Quote from: Quemaqua on Monday, January 05, 2009, 08:15:10 PM

Also, Zero Punctuation review! It's amusing, and actually much more positive than I'd thought it might be.

Actually, for a while, I've been thinking Yahtzee is on Valve's payroll.

PyroMenace · « **Reply #177 on:** Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 08:03:28 PM »

Im off tomorrow night so Ill be up to play some if you are Que.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #178 on:** Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 08:05:12 PM »

Fuck yeah. Idol and D got the game, too. Or I should say Idol's crappy DVD from me finally came in the mail, heh. Seems he can play online at least to some degree. We're screwing with it now.

PyroMenace · « **Reply #179 on:** Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 08:16:53 PM »

Oh awesome! Let me know how it goes.

idolminds · « **Reply #180 on:** Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 10:16:31 PM »

Well it....works as well as can be expected. I can play, but when the shit hits the fan I lag so much that I'm not terribly useful. But its still pretty damn fun.

Pugnate · « **Reply #181 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 02:15:00 AM »

Idol, what ping are you getting on Que's server? For some reason I am near 350 on that...

Quemaqua · « **Reply #182 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 07:41:44 AM »

The connections around L4D in general seem terrible. Around 200ms seems to be average most anywhere you go, and 90% of the people I've played with on random servers have had "orange" connections. I don't think I've run across a single other green connection (obviously I ping very well to our server since I'm the one running it). Kind of frustrating. It seems a lot of the netcode was borked in this game, and even getting a server to work properly is an exercise in frustration. If your config is too big, your server lags out and it takes too long to process the config so everyone gets dropped (or refuses connections for a while when taking too long to wake up from hibernation). This was happening on the OWnet server even though the config was minuscule, so now what I have up is bare-bones as all hell. Plus the group stuff doesn't work properly, as you'll note that the server never shows up in the main menu for OWnet Steam group members the way it's supposed to.

As much as I love this game (and I really do), it reaffirms my belief that ultimately, Valve is a shitty developer, at least at certain times with certain elements. They do indeed have great ideas, a lot of artistry, and some talented people on their team, but their execution of those ideas leaves a whole fucking lot to be desired. You might even equate it to Bethesda, who make fabulous but buggy games. Except Valve, for my personal preference, generally doesn't make games compelling enough to deal with the bullshit. Aside from L4D, which even with the server shit and incomplete versus mapset even after 3+ years of development (what the fuck were they doing all that time?), is still an obscenely awesome game that's tons of fun and worth tinkering with to get working.

But don't despair! There's still time for them to get their own act together now that issues are being reported (though I know little about their track record with this because I don't play many of their other games), and I'm trying to dig up more information that may help me improve things on my end. The game still seems to be quite playable at 200ms, which seems to be the average connection speed to the server thus far.

As for idol, he was getting around 500ms last night. That jumped to 1,000ms+ during horde rushes, haha.

And Pug, when were you on? The server didn't report any activity after I finished my latest test run last night.

idolminds · « **Reply #183 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:21:43 AM »

Quote

Plus the group stuff doesn't work properly, as you'll note that the server never shows up in the main menu for OWnet Steam group members the way it's supposed to.

Last night when I went to play some SP after you made the cfg changes, I noticed it popped up on that menu.

Pugnate · « **Reply #184 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:28:32 AM »

I didn't log in. I just saw it on the server browser at 350+ ping. Heck, I might upgrade to a 2mbps connection for a month to play with you guys. It is $60 here for a 1mbps and 120 for 2mbps... but I might just do it for a month.

Xessive · « **Reply #185 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:47:00 AM »

Quote from: Pugnate on Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:28:32 AM

I didn't log in. I just saw it on the server browser at 350+ ping. Heck, I might upgrade to a 2mbps connection for a month to play with you guys. It is $60 here for a 1mbps and 120 for 2mbps... but I might just do it for a month.

That's roughly how much it costs here. Right now my sis and I chipping in to pay for the 2MB connection. Frickin' rip-off though. I was getting a 5MB line for $40 CDN in London Ontario!

Pugnate · « **Reply #186 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:56:05 AM »

Still catching up in this part of the world.

Though on the other hand, cell phone rates are hella cheaper here eh?

Xessive · « **Reply #187 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 04:40:30 PM »

Quote from: Pugnate on Thursday, January 08, 2009, 11:56:05 AM

Still catching up in this part of the world.

Though on the other hand, cell phone rates are hella cheaper here eh?

Man, we've definitely got the good of that stick! I was shocked when I found out that in Canada you pay for receiving calls, caller ID and unlimited incoming are like "special services" with additional fees, wtf! That weirded me out.

Even with a 2MB connection I have a lot of trouble finding decent servers for anything. To play online I usually have to start a server and hope people hop in.

MysterD · « **Reply #188 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 04:58:56 PM »

All I have to say is that despite the lack of content/maps, L4D rocks and I still cannot put the damn thing down...

That is all. Must be a zombie to this game...must go play...

MysterD · « **Reply #189 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 05:27:47 PM »

Is Steam down?
Can't seem to sign online onto Steam to play with other people.

Offline mode works fine, though.

idolminds · « **Reply #190 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 05:32:11 PM »

yeah, try open your friends list. Says down for maintenance.

MysterD · « **Reply #191 on:** Thursday, January 08, 2009, 05:36:18 PM »

Quote from: idolminds on Thursday, January 08, 2009, 05:32:11 PM

yeah, try open your friends list. Says down for maintenance.

Ah, thanks.
Son of a gun!

idolminds · « **Reply #192 on:** Friday, January 09, 2009, 02:07:34 AM »

Lifesteak spray!

Ok, this screen was taken in CS:S since I made the spray before I had L4D. But it totally works in L4D, so have at it!

Unzip to your Steam\steamapps\common\left 4 dead\left4dead\materials\vgui\logos\custom folder, then select it from the menus in game.

ScaryTooth · « **Reply #193 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 01:35:15 PM »

So, I ended up getting an XBox live 12 month membership, mainly for the netflix thing, and to play Gears online. But I also ended up getting L4D for the 360 as well. Kind of an impulse buy. I'm thinking now that maybe I should take it back, and get it for PC. It's weird. I almost never get FPS games for consoles. I don't like the controls. Eh, I dunno. I'll think about it a little more.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #194 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 01:37:22 PM »

Yes, you should take it back and get it for PC. I can't think of a single reason to get this on a console. Not one.

Pugnate · « **Reply #195 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 01:49:20 PM »

Dude, return it now. I played the hell out of this on Xbox Live on a friend's 360, and then someone was brilliant enough to gift me the PC version. I have to tell you, the PC version is MOST DEFINITELY better. I'd just get it for the visuals alone. The game looks far sexier on PC.

gpw11 · « **Reply #196 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 03:44:11 PM »

So...I think I'm going to pick this up later today. I imagine my life is about to fall apart.

Quemaqua · « **Reply #197 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 04:58:28 PM »

No no. Your life is about to become complete.

Okay, that's giving it way too much credit. But seriously, if you have as much fun with it as I have, which hasn't really even been serious play, you'll get your money's worth. I've given it like 30-something hours now. I honestly still find it baffling that I could enjoy playing through it, but I still enjoy going through the campaigns as a survivor at this point, and I really haven't even touched versus mode that much, so there's still value to be had.

Xessive · « **Reply #198 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 05:11:30 PM »

I think I'm gonna pick this up too.

Just watched the GameTrailers review and now I'm psyched for zombie-blasting coop.

PyroMenace · « **Reply #199 on:** Saturday, January 10, 2009, 05:16:10 PM »

Awww jeah, its catching on now.

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Author Topic: Left 4 Dead (Read 58356 times)