Author Topic: Left 4 Dead  (Read 58297 times)

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #320 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 08:43:27 PM »
I think the main issue I have with them is the necessity for a frontend application. How many game launcher do I really need?!

In the case of Steam I really wish it wasn't so woven into the fabric of the games. It makes sense for Valve games but for everything else it just provides another hurdle to get over just to get a game going.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #321 on: Monday, April 20, 2009, 08:52:21 PM »
I think these online stores just need to be more like...stores. Part of that is the publishers fault. Get your game on as many services as possible and let the gamer choose where they want to buy. Each service would then have to compete on usability and extra features. If they want me to buy on Steam, they'd have to improve Steam. Which would benefit everyone.

Buying games on Steam because "All the other games I bought are on Steam" is a lame answer.

The other thing -- Impulse version, Retail version, Steam version for the same game -- are all quite different. The non-universal factor can be annoying.

If I buy a game at Retail outlet and it's also out on Steam, if I so choose, I should be able to convert my retail version into Steam. Only SOME games allow for that -- such as Dark Messiah and UT3.

For example, if you buy say Spore on Steam, you're stuck with buying all Spore expansions through Steam -- unless you want to buy a retail copy of Spore. I should be able to mix and match, if I so choose.

At least w/ the Dawn of War games (ONLY Dawn of War, Winter Assault, Dark Crusade, Soulstorm) they really don't care what version you own; Steam or Retail. Those games are protected by the license key from Relic, more so than anything.

Can't say the same for Dawn of War 2, since all versions are protected by Steam.



Offline scottws

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #322 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 05:32:47 AM »
Valve makes some good games, I wont deny that. They are a little overhyped, though. I've never been impressed with the "physics puzzles" they've tossed into the HL2 series. The Episodes both have some areas you can see they wanted to stretch out the time played (EP1 had you run back and forth taking people to the train, EP2 had that antlion turret defense thing). Just things I can see people ripping on if it was anyone but Valve.
I don't consider myself a Valve fan.  I've liked most of what I played from them, except TF2 and the original Half-Life, which I actually tried to play for the first time after HL2.  To me Valve is just another company that makes games.  As I said, I happen to like almost everything they've released, including both HL2 episodes.

Regarding HL2, I don't think I was as impressed with any other game ever save Doom.  It certainly wasn't the storytelling.  I think it was sort of... personality the game had.  The beginning of the game at the train station went a long way towards really making me feel like part of the game and I was impressed with the little things, such as the Combine guys pushing you when you got too close.  And I liked the physics puzzles because I hadn't seen that level of physics in a game before.  In short, the game truly floored me.

But I acknowledge that people such as Que had issues with the game because of how it felt like a bunch of different little games stitched together.  For me that wasn't a problem and I actually liked it, but not everyone is me.  I'm not a staunch HL2 defender or anything, but yes I personally think the game was fantastic... a milestone if you will.

The Source engine is a bit of a joke, at least to me. 2004 HL2 released, 2010 is looking like when Episode 3 will be out. 6 years, same engine. Updated here and there, but for the most part it wont be terribly different. Thats the length of time between HL1 and HL2s release, and they had to build the engine (or at least the parts that weren't from Carmack). We went from UT2004 to UT3 in this time, Doom 3 to Rage (should be out by then).
I don't think it's a huge deal.  It's beginning to show its age, but I wouldn't say that games using the source engine look dated yet.  Look at the longevity that the QIII engine had, and it definitely was looking dated after 6 years.

I think you do have to wonder though why it took Valve so long to come up with Source.  It was an evolution, not a revolution.  And it's not going to last forever no matter how many little updates they do.  You have to wonder if they are going to take another seven years to make the next engine.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #323 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 06:00:54 AM »
Well, they took 9 years of development time to repackage an existing multiplayer game with a new art style, and then release it with 6 shitty maps; so I sure hope they're working on a new engine by now.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #324 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 07:33:28 AM »
Quake III's engine was a bit like Crysis when it came out, because it was ahead of its time. A lot of people bitched for the first six months or so until their rigs started to catch up. Overall it was a very powerful engine, and continued to wow many years later. HL2 sorta lost the wow factor within a year.

And I think the TF2 maps are pretty cool.

Quote
The Source engine is a bit of a joke, at least to me. 2004 HL2 released, 2010 is looking like when Episode 3 will be out. 6 years, same engine. Updated here and there, but for the most part it wont be terribly different. Thats the length of time between HL1 and HL2s release, and they had to build the engine (or at least the parts that weren't from Carmack). We went from UT2004 to UT3 in this time, Doom 3 to Rage (should be out by then).

I sometimes wonder if Ep3 will be scrapped all together, with HL3 basically continuing where Ep3 left off in a new engine. Though I then realize it wouldn't be possible, since that wouldn't allow HL3 to be a self contained title.


Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #325 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 09:40:59 AM »
I think the Source engine's strong point now is its scalability. Most, if not all, Source games run on older machines and I love the fact that my brother, using an older gen Pentium Celeron D with a Radeon X1650 256MB vid card and I can play the game together. It is ideal for games like TF2, L4D, CS:S, and other multiplayers. It's indeal for the Internet Café gaming experience.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack info added (Reply 308)
« Reply #326 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 02:39:32 PM »
I think the Source engine's strong point now is its scalability. Most, if not all, Source games run on older machines and I love the fact that my brother, using an older gen Pentium Celeron D with a Radeon X1650 256MB vid card and I can play the game together. It is ideal for games like TF2, L4D, CS:S, and other multiplayers. It's indeal for the Internet Café gaming experience.

How many gamers are actually running games like L4D on say an older/lesser rig?

EDIT:
L4D - Survival Pack DLC (Free!) released for X360 through XBL and PC through Steam.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 03:38:49 PM by MysterD »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #327 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 04:17:06 PM »
It's a huge thing here! A lot of people I know that aren't even casual gamers went for it when they saw how well it ran. Aside from that Internet Cafés are a big business out here and games like L4D give their systems a longer lifespan since they wouldn't need to upgrade their machines as frequently.

L4D (like Counter-Strike) became pretty popular among businessmen-gamers around here since they could actually run it.

I think games need to adhere to the tech heirarchy: top-tier (tech-heavy titles like Crysis and the upcoming RAGE), mainstream (L4D, TF2), and basic (Popcap, Bigfish Games). I believe that's what the Windows Performance Rating was trying to achieve but it fails miserably.

That reminds me, I just reinstalled Company of Heroes and according to the Windows Rating it says required: 3.0 and recommended: 4.0, my system gets a 5.3 (hard drive speed is my lowest score, everything else is 5.9+), and there's no way I can run that game on High settings! Heck on medium settings it chugs! I noticed the biggest performance factor is shadows, switched them off. All settings are low-medium if I want to run it at a decent framerate. So this begs the question "What the fuck do you mean the recommended rating is 4.0??!"

EDIT:
By contrast Dawn of War II runs beautifully at medium-high.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #328 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 08:27:38 PM »
I just tried out the Survival pack.

According to the advertised content:
New Survival gameplay Mode
16 maps including Last Stand
Leaderboards
7 new achievements
2 new Versus campaigns

How much of that is actually true? New survival mode, 7 new achievements, leaderboards, and ONE new map.

There's only one new map: Last Stand. The survival maps are all recycled, and the "new" Versus campaigns are among the content that was missing from the initial release so they could get the game out in time.

On a positive note the pack is more like a patch that makes the game feel a tad more complete.

So to recap:
-1 new map
-1 new gamemode
-added leaderboards (which is more like a bug fix than new content)
-7 new achievements (like that actually counts as content)

The fact that they have the gall to announce 16 recycled maps as "new" content is a step in the evil direction where the average gamer is expected to pay for genuinely new content.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #329 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 09:03:19 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty shitty.  Again, if any other developer tried this, people would condemn them, but not Valve.

Motherfucking fanboys.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #330 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 09:18:49 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty shitty.  Again, if any other developer tried this, people would condemn them, but not Valve.

Motherfucking fanboys.
I swear man, these fucking fanbitches are grovelling like peons for every drop of piss that hits them from their mighty Valve.

Seriously though, the content does not justify the delay. 3-4 months and one map. Really?!  :o

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #331 on: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 09:29:04 PM »
That's what I'm saying.  I mean... damn it, I think L4D is really fun.  It's a good game.  But it was released just over 5 months ago, and this is it?  No improvements to nonsensical server stupidity, one new map, and giving us a new mode that's basically just tiny bits that are already in the main game?  Screw that noise, man.  Seriously, the "new" mode is basically just the "crescendo" points from the main game except you don't move past them and more waves just keep coming.  Those parts are great in the context of making you sweat until you pass them, but I don't think I really want to sit there doing that over and over.  I could be wrong, and I'll give it a shot, but I don't have high hopes.

But yeah, a rehash mode and giving us the rest of the content that should have been there in the first place is not cool.  Especially not after five fucking months.

Eh.  I don't want to get too down about it.  I was lucky to get the game as a gift, and I've had fun playing with buddies.  Hopefully we can get some more games going at some point, try out the versus mode together more.  And I'm hoping they'll actually release some new content at some point so we can try new stuff.  I'd love to see a new campaign.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #332 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 01:42:02 PM »
That's what I'm saying.  I mean... damn it, I think L4D is really fun.  It's a good game.  But it was released just over 5 months ago, and this is it?  No improvements to nonsensical server stupidity, one new map, and giving us a new mode that's basically just tiny bits that are already in the main game?  Screw that noise, man.  Seriously, the "new" mode is basically just the "crescendo" points from the main game except you don't move past them and more waves just keep coming.  Those parts are great in the context of making you sweat until you pass them, but I don't think I really want to sit there doing that over and over.  I could be wrong, and I'll give it a shot, but I don't have high hopes.

But yeah, a rehash mode and giving us the rest of the content that should have been there in the first place is not cool.  Especially not after five fucking months.
I'm glad they finally gave us all the content we should've got in the first place -- all the rest of the maps in Versus. At least they didn't nickle and dime us for that.

But, you'd figure by this time, they'd say pump out ONE new "Episode" by now...

Quote
And I'm hoping they'll actually release some new content at some point so we can try new stuff.  I'd love to see a new campaign.
I'd love to see some maps released that somehow link the campaigns together, since they all seem to be separate entities.

A new campaign and a SDK is what I want more than anything.

I want MORE content for L4D.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #333 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 02:15:46 PM »
I don't really see or why they could link the campaigns together, each one is unique to its theme, like a little individual zombie films.

I would love to see more campaigns too. I'm hoping the Lighthouse map is just a preview of a campaign that they'll release in the near future "The Last Stand."

I think I've learned one lesson from all this crap with Valve: never buy a game with the impression that it will get more content; wait till it actually does get more content then hop on the wagon.

That probably means I won't pick up any Valve games until about a year after their release date.

Btw, regarding the Survival update, is it just me or is the new menu video crap? It looks like shit quality and it's irritating.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #334 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 05:30:10 PM »
If the Lighthouse map is a preview of a new campaign, then it's just going to be rehash of the 2nd one anyway.  There was nothing new there, just more nice looking rural area with a house.  It could almost have been several parts of the 2nd campaign.  When I first watched a video of it, I thought it was.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #335 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 05:31:08 PM »
Goddamn you guys.... Im never going to play this game again.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #336 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 05:33:00 PM »
I always felt that Death Toll and Blood Harvest were very closely related campaigns. Both very rural.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #337 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 05:33:49 PM »
I still love the game, don't get me wrong.  It's a great idea and well executed.  I hope they release more free content and stuff... I just wish they'd hurry the hell up about it.  And I wish people would stop jerking them off for everything.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #338 on: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 06:10:10 PM »
I still love the game, don't get me wrong.  It's a great idea and well executed.  I hope they release more free content and stuff... I just wish they'd hurry the hell up about it.  And I wish people would stop jerking them off for everything.
Couldn't have said it better.

All I'm really expecting from Valve is the same support and diligence we've seen with their other games e.g. HL (both), TF2, CS:S etc.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #339 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 06:05:17 PM »
Valve needs to get the hell going w/ more L4D content, getting a SDK out there, new campaigns, new game-modes, and everything else to make L4D what it really should be -- the best Multiplayer FPS ever.

Offline PyroMenace

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #340 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 10:18:29 PM »
Very nice D, you win the obvious post of the week yet again. Your 6 year streak continues untouched.

Offline idolminds

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #341 on: Friday, April 24, 2009, 10:48:11 PM »
Valve needs to get the hell going w/ more L4D content, getting a SDK out there, new campaigns, new game-modes, and everything else to make L4D what it really should be -- the best Multiplayer FPS ever.
Sorry, L4D will never be Tribes.

I'm working on getting L4D updated. Its going about as slowly as it possibly can.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #342 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 12:10:38 AM »
Very nice D, you win the obvious post of the week yet again. Your 6 year streak continues untouched.

hahaha

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #343 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 05:25:10 AM »
Woohoo!
I'm on a roll! :)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #344 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 07:39:49 AM »

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #345 on: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 12:48:07 PM »
Oh, Jesus...  :o

Offline W7RE

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Survival Pack FREE DLC released on PC and X360 (Reply 326)
« Reply #346 on: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 07:50:17 PM »
Free to play this weekend on Steam. Well, not this weekend but this Friday. I guess I could have posted this sooner to give timef or preloading. There's 20 hours left of the free trial as of this posting.

I was just playing it a little. Now I hate myself even more for buying the Xbox version. I would have spent SOOOOO much more time with it if I'd gotten the PC version, it's so much more playable. It's also on sale for $24 this weekend, but I've litterally got no money at all.

Offline MysterD

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Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Beta SDK Released publicly through Steam (Reply 347)
« Reply #348 on: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 11:13:16 AM »
Quote from: IRC
<@Quemaqua> So I thought I'd play some L4D today.  Can you guess what happened when I tried to load it?
<@idolminds> It went outside and shit on your lawn?
<@Quemaqua> heh
<@Quemaqua> It just wouldn't load.  Tried 5 times, nothing.  Restarted Steam, nothing.
<@idolminds> typical
<@Quemaqua> It says "Syncing 0%" for about 2 seconds, then just... does nothing.
<@Quemaqua> So I guess I don't get to play L4D anymore.
<@idolminds> welcome to the club

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Beta SDK Released publicly through Steam (Reply 347)
« Reply #349 on: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 11:43:32 AM »
For some reason, none of that stuff ever happens to my system, ever.

What does happen is when the internet is down for some reason, and steam refuses to load. After I tell it to "start in offline" mode, it just says "UPDATING STEAM"... which is bullshit, as it doesn't really have any update when the internet returns.

It is frustrating as hell, especially since sometimes it just works perfectly OK in that offline mode.

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Beta SDK Released publicly through Steam (Reply 347)
« Reply #350 on: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 12:39:14 PM »
That sucks, Que.

Have you tried closing Steam, deleting the ClientRegistry.blob file, then reloading Steam? That seems to solve most problems I encounter.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Beta SDK Released publicly through Steam (Reply 347)
« Reply #351 on: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 12:49:01 PM »
Not yet.  The fact that the program just didn't fucking work the way it was supposed to pissed me off and I went and did something else instead.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: Beta SDK Released publicly through Steam (Reply 347)
« Reply #352 on: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 02:05:24 PM »
Not yet.  The fact that the program just didn't fucking work the way it was supposed to pissed me off and I went and did something else instead.
Yep, similar thing happened to me last month. I ended up translating and subtitling a French movie (Taxi 3) so my dad could watch it. Took about 4-5 hours total time. More productive and enjoyable than stressing over Steam's shortcomings and complaining to Valve who won't respond anyway. My brother spent the time snoozing, which I believe was also more productive and enjoyable than dealing with Steam.


Offline idolminds

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #354 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 03:10:23 PM »
I love how they make news by not saying anything. "So we've got stuff coming which we've said before. And we won't give any details, as usual."

Quote
Lombardi added, "I think 8, 9 months from now once everything's been out for a while and everyone's had time to see the complete product of Left 4 Dead 2 and see continued support for Left 4 Dead 1, they may sort of see what we were up to and what the method of our madness was there."
8-9 months? Why don't you tell us now? Maybe they just like to keep the drama going.

I guess I can post this now. Summary of L4D Launch Reviews. A nice thing to link to when people say you are "spoiled" and feel "entitled" to new maps.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #355 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 03:22:03 PM »
I love how they make news by not saying anything. "So we've got stuff coming which we've said before. And we won't give any details, as usual."
Have they been hanging out with 3DR or something???

Quote
8-9 months? Why don't you tell us now? Maybe they just like to keep the drama going.
I think so, yes. They love to tease us...

Offline Xessive

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #356 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 05:18:09 PM »
Nice link Idol.

Just for the sake of argument, how would L4D stack up against, say, Portal or TF2 in terms of value and amount of content? Portal is a much longer game, though it is only singleplayer, and TF2 has a heck of a lot more content altogether (granted it was accumulated over some time). Considering each only costs $20 individually and both come with The Orange Box (plus HL2, EP1, EP2) with a total cost $30, that's a heck of a value.

I guess I'm just repeating now. That list of reviews and content commentary rekindled the flame.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #357 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 05:30:36 PM »
With the way Valve's going here with trickling out DLC and info about upcoming DLC, I think it's up to the modders and the community to save L4D1.

I really hope the community goes crazy w/ L4D1 SDK these next few months...

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #358 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 06:53:06 PM »
I'm sure you can guess what my sentiments are.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline MysterD

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Re: Left 4 Dead - Update: More L4D DLC to be announced "soon" (Reply 353)
« Reply #359 on: Thursday, July 02, 2009, 07:31:36 PM »
I'm sure you can guess what my sentiments are.

I think I see Que *flipping* a *bird* into the sky, which will land directly on Valve...