Author Topic: Space Siege  (Read 4383 times)

Offline Pugnate

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Space Siege
« on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 11:21:49 AM »
Ever since the preview in PC Gamer, I've been looking forward to this game. I really enjoyed Dungeon Siege. I quite liked the hack and slash gameplay, the looting, the visuals, and the excellent party AI. However I felt the game wasn't without its faults. Even when compared to an RPG light game like Diablo, the storyline in Dungeon Siege was bone thin, and there was a distinct lack of atmosphere. While the game offered plenty of NPCs, the dialog was virtually non existent.

Despite those issues, I liked Dungeon Siege for its positives. I also appreciated the innovations in the introduction of the pack mule, and the experience based leveling up system.

When Dungeon Siege 2 came around, I was pretty disappointed though. The visuals that once had been cutting edge, suddenly felt merely adequate. The gameplay, while still good, lacked much in the way of further innovation. And in terms of the storyline and dialog, the game was still lacking. Unlike Diablo, it didn't have the atmosphere to fall back on. The whole thing felt more like Dungeon Siege 1.5 than 2.0

Upon reading the first previews for Space Siege, I was pretty excited. I found the premise very interesting, and was pleased to note that the game would concentrate on a storyline. To me, a great RPG consists of two halves. The first half consists of the action and the roleplaying mechanics, while the second consists of the storyline and NPC interaction.

Considering how the first Dungeon Siege got the action elements right, I felt a new Siege intellectual property from Chris Taylor would have tremendous potential, provided improvements in areas of past shortcomings. With Taylor's technical expertise, I felt that a fully fleshed out narrative would result in an instant classic.

Now recently I read his interview on Gerstspot...err...Gamespot:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/spacesiege/news.html?sid=6184380&tag=topslot;title;1

It seems to be shaping up fairly nicely, but there was one thing that bothered me:

Quote
Gas Powered Games is at the Consumer Electronics Show to showcase its latest action role-playing game, one that will strip out a lot of the complex role-playing gameplay that pervaded its spiritual predecessor, Dungeon Siege. To that effect, Space Siege is more of an action game with light RPG elements to it, but one that promises quite a bit of replayability.

It bothers me because the role-playing elements in DS weren't all that complex to begin with. In fact they were very streamlined, with skill points not distributed by the players, but rather earned through frequency of skill use.

So my question is, what "complex" elements are being "stripped out"?

Also how can an isometric action RPG entertain you, unless it involves a robust and involving skill system? In an isometric RPG, there isn't much twitch based skill required from players. The most gamers do is click on targets, and hit the respective hotkeys at appropriate moments.

More often than not, (especially when a party isn't involved) you spend your time tweaking the mechanics that level up your character, and then simply watch as he/she wreaks havoc. The input in the action is minimal, and the enjoyment actually comes from the looting, and the skill and stat manipulation. So that's why I am a little bothered by the "stripping out", because without the role-playing mechanics, you aren't left with much.

From what I understand, there isn't a party to control in this game. You basically have your hero, and can be accompanied by bots that are similar to familiars in Neverwinter, or the summoned creatures in Diablo. To me, that's a negative. I think  talkative companions enforce an RPG's story telling.

In the end, I am still looking forward to this game, but I do have some concerns. The game is listed to come out in the next six months, so we shall know soon enough.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #1 on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 12:21:29 PM »
I think at this point I can really say that I'm not a fan of Chris Taylor.  I thought DS was a fat load of crap.  Like you said, the RPG elements were super thin, and it felt more like playing a really boring RTS than an RPG to me.  I gave up on the first, then tried the 2nd, which was marginally better except for the stupid story and HORRENDOUS voice acting, and gave up on that too.  In fact, the only thing that makes me think Space Siege might not completely suck is because it's going a more actiony route instead of trying to be an RPG.  Because frankly, Chris Taylor wouldn't know an RPG if it gave him a lap dance in a skimpy Studded Leather Bikini of the Holy Whale +5.  The guy just needs to give up... and maybe that's what he's doing.

Anyway, best of luck to him.  I highly doubt this game will be anything I'm interested in, but hopefully it shapes up to be something fans of his previous games can enjoy.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #2 on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 01:21:59 PM »
I was thinking that he just doesn't have it to be the lead designer. He can do the technical stuff, but his games just lack heart and imagination. They need a creative director.

edit:
As for it being actiony, that's fine. I am just wondering if he can pull that off.

These screenies worry me though:




That looks like the Dungeon Siege engine. Is he still trying to cash on that?

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #3 on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 01:43:03 PM »
Cutting edge they are not.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Ghandi

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #4 on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 01:45:57 PM »
Looking at those screens gives me hope that I may be able to run the game on my crappy machine. :P

I doubt that I would ever buy it, though. I bought Dungeon Siege and it was entertaining, but nothing to call home about.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #5 on: Saturday, January 12, 2008, 02:22:00 PM »
I am looking forward to Space Siege, but I dunno, another sci-fi action-RPG.
Didn't we just have Hellgate: London? :P

Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:06:18 AM »
GPG is thinking about possibily bringing Space Siege to the consoles, eventually...

Quote
Eurogamer posts a short quote from Shawn Green of Sega, publisher for Gas Powered Games action rpg Space Seige, stating the possibility of releasing the game for consoles as well as PC:

    "We're talking with them about it," said Shawn Green, associate producer of Space Siege for SEGA.

    "We don't want to let any cats out of the bag too early but definitely a console version is something that's being considered right now. But currently it's not confirmed."...

    "We're seeing on console that a lot of gamers are appreciating the short and sweet experience, where you can play through and really like it and enjoy it," Green added.

    "I think that's where a lot of Chris motivation comes from, taking that to the PC and creating a game that you can beat."

    According to Green, Space Siege PC is out this September.



 

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:17:19 AM »
The game looks like serious ass. I mean visually. It looks like the half-life 1 engine.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:30:36 AM »
The game looks like serious ass. I mean visually. It looks like the half-life 1 engine.

Given how it looks, the game's minimum system requirements better be on par w/ say Dungeon Siege 2...'cause basically, that is what it looks like, but in space and all...

Graphics are not everything to me, so that means the gameplay better be dynamite and then some...

Offline Xessive

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #9 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:40:50 AM »
I'm not sure why but I'm not very excited about it.

It kinda reminds me of Gunlok, but maybe with a bit more of a storyline.

Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #10 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 06:47:52 AM »
I'm not sure why but I'm not very excited about it.

It kinda reminds me of Gunlok, but maybe with a bit more of a storyline.

Or maybe even Restricted Area

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #11 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 07:39:49 AM »
Neither Dungeon Siege game was isometric.  They were fully 3D.

I liked the DS games quite a bit.  As usual, story development takes a back seat to what I get to do in games, not that I don't enjoy good stories.  The DS games were the first where I got to control the entire party moment to moment by the ability to study the battle and issue commands in pause mode.  I could even move the camera around the scene, with everything frozen in time.  I thought it made for some great RPG gameplay and nice 3D action shots as well.  I remember being surprised at the time how nobody else seemed to grasp the importance of pause mode.  The game was generally being played as a twitch point-and-click shooter in battles by so many.  This may be why they're thinking of dumbing it down some more.  The lowest common denominator never seems to be low enough, does it? 

The 2nd game dumbed it down some to begin with, taking away some of the complete autonomy I had in the 1st.  I could tell one mage to heal someone, another to cast some buff magic, have 2 archers concentrate on a particular enemy, and have my tanks block the big ugs from getting to the fragile members in the back.  I could choose formations and stances.  It all looked great at the time, with everyone actually wearing and wielding the gear they bought or found.  That's the 1st game.  The 2nd tried to generalize things by having 2 different modes for the party (if I remember correctly).  I always found myself fighting against the default behavior.  Getting each member to do exactly what I wanted was more difficult.  Following the trend, it seems like this Space Siege is going to take away completely what made DS special.

Now I'm playing FF XII (among other things) and it got its battle-system inspiration from a similar place.  I can do anything I want with each party member while frozen in time.  Anything special I have them do will override the gambits (priority-ordered action instruction lists) for the duration of the command.  I can even change the active party members.  The battles themselves unfold just as they do in DS.  It's a pseudo-real-time system.  This works so well, it's so involving, and looks great.  It would be a shame to see it abandoned in the games that for all I know pioneered it.

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 12:44:36 PM »
That's so funny, because I would never, ever draw a comparison between DS and FFXII.  The latter is one of my favorite games of all time, and the two titles under the former banner are I think some of the most boring crap I've ever played.  I do see your point in comparing them, though, even if I don't find the games comparable in the general sense at all.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 01:18:51 PM »
The comparison doesn't go beyond the battle system.  DS is shallow in story and character development.  FF XII is just the opposite.  I knew that would get a rise out of you.  Maybe at some perverse subconscious level, that's why I drew the parallel.   :)

Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM »
Neither Dungeon Siege game was isometric.  They were fully 3D.
That's not my point. What I'm talking about has nothing to do w/ 2D and 3D.

Restricted Area and Space Siege are both Action-RPG's in a very futuristic sci-fi setting. Restricted Area might be more say cyberpunk and Blade Runner-like than Space Siege, though -- since Space Siege looks like the traditional sci-fi future.

Space Siege sounds like it has a character tree system that is way more open than say Restricted Area, but all the same elements are there to choose from. In RA, depending on what character you pick, you basically are using a character w/ a different class, basically -- one is a computer hacker that hangs with a bot to help her out, one is a pure melee weapons master, one is a gun-user, and one is basically a mage. In Space Siege, your one character itself can basically be any of those type of characters found in RA -- or hell, a combo of any of those characters, since the game system in SS as far as we know will be quite open-ended like say a TQ.

Quote
I liked the DS games quite a bit.  As usual, story development takes a back seat to what I get to do in games, not that I don't enjoy good stories.  The DS games were the first where I got to control the entire party moment to moment by the ability to study the battle and issue commands in pause mode.  I could even move the camera around the scene, with everything frozen in time.
BG did most of this RPG strategy-stuff in 2D -- but BG was not in 3D, so you couldn't spin the cam; pitch it; and zoom it in and out.

Quote
I thought it made for some great RPG gameplay and nice 3D action shots as well.  I remember being surprised at the time how nobody else seemed to grasp the importance of pause mode.  The game was generally being played as a twitch point-and-click shooter in battles by so many.  This may be why they're thinking of dumbing it down some more.  The lowest common denominator never seems to be low enough, does it?

....

Now I'm playing FF XII (among other things) and it got its battle-system inspiration from a similar place.  I can do anything I want with each party member while frozen in time.  Anything special I have them do will override the gambits (priority-ordered action instruction lists) for the duration of the command.  I can even change the active party members.  The battles themselves unfold just as they do in DS.  It's a pseudo-real-time system.  This works so well, it's so involving, and looks great.  It would be a shame to see it abandoned in the games that for all I know pioneered it.

I liked DS1, but DS2 did dumb-down the strategy stuff a bit, unfortunately -- DS2 removing the formations and all of that stuff that I really liked in DS1.

Though, DS2: Broken World was the best of the DS series, story-wise -- yeah, by far even.

Quote
The 2nd game dumbed it down some to begin with, taking away some of the complete autonomy I had in the 1st.  I could tell one mage to heal someone, another to cast some buff magic, have 2 archers concentrate on a particular enemy, and have my tanks block the big ugs from getting to the fragile members in the back.  I could choose formations and stances.  It all looked great at the time, with everyone actually wearing and wielding the gear they bought or found.  That's the 1st game.  The 2nd tried to generalize things by having 2 different modes for the party (if I remember correctly).  I always found myself fighting against the default behavior.  Getting each member to do exactly what I wanted was more difficult.  Following the trend, it seems like this Space Siege is going to take away completely what made DS special.
I'm betting Space Siege will play more like a TQ -- one man against everything evil that walks; but done in a futuristic sci-fi world.

Offline Cobra951

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #15 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 10:42:48 PM »
The isometric comment was meant for Pug.

Quote from: Pugnate
Also how can an isometric action RPG entertain you, unless it involves a robust and involving skill system? In an isometric RPG, there isn't much twitch based skill required from players. The most gamers do is click on targets, and hit the respective hotkeys at appropriate moments.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #16 on: Sunday, February 03, 2008, 11:00:17 PM »
Quote
The isometric comment was meant for Pug.

LOL I was wondering why you wrote that above. I was thinking that this is obviously not an isometric RPG, so who is he saying that to? I then scanned D's post for the word isometric.

Yes this is obviously not an isometric RPG. I don't know why I started thinking of BG2. I don't know why my brain keeps mixing things up.

But the comment I made still applies. In a hack and slash game like this, you want to be able to do as much as possible. If everything is automated, what's the point?


Offline MysterD

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #17 on: Monday, February 04, 2008, 02:56:09 PM »
I thought Cobra's comment was directed at my comment on Restricted Area being like DS basically without me explaining why I said that, though I thought Cobra's commenting was looking for me to explain it w/ his comment, so I did explain what I meant by that...

...when Cobra was actually replying to Pug's comment!

Ummm....whoops!



Offline Ghandi

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #18 on: Monday, February 04, 2008, 08:06:28 PM »
I knew that would get a rise out of you.  Maybe at some perverse subconscious level, that's why I drew the parallel.   :)

Hahaha...

Just for the future: All it takes to get a rise out of Que is to mention his neighbors. ;)

Offline gpw11

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #19 on: Monday, February 04, 2008, 08:28:16 PM »
Or goats...but that's a different kind of thing all together.

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #20 on: Monday, February 04, 2008, 11:10:45 PM »
I've heard some weird stories about Que in college:

Que: So baby, you want to get freaky?

Hot chick: Sure honey. Just let me take this off.

Que: Ohh that's hot. Wait, I'll be right back.

Hot chick: Nooo... Where are you going?

Que: Just wait. I'll be right back from the washroom.

*Minutes later, Que returns*

Hot Chick: um..... why are you dressed like a goat?

Que: Baaaa...baaaa...
« Last Edit: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 03:47:24 AM by Pugnate »

Offline Xessive

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 05:50:12 AM »
"I'm a ba-a-a-a-a-ad boy." - Que :P

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 10:15:33 AM »
If they didn't leave when I said "Do I make you hooorn-y?" then they left when I started headbutting them.

天才的な閃きと平均以下のテクニックやな。 課長有野

Offline Jedi

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 06:05:18 PM »
If they didn't leave when I said "Do I make you hooorn-y?" then they left when I started headbutting them.

 ;D

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 11:21:45 PM »
haha...

Offline Xessive

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 11:35:17 PM »
Hahaha Ramathorn!

Offline Pugnate

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Re: Space Siege
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday, February 05, 2008, 11:41:25 PM »
I am still laughing, especially since I am picturing Que head butt her like a head banger.