Topic: CoD4 pirated....a lot, I guess

[Jedi]

I kinda agree with MyD on the episodic content pricing. Wasn't that the point of episodic games to begin with? That's my stance on expansions too. An expansion should cost no more than 60% of its Full counterpart's price. Some people argue that expansions should be half or less.

Agreed but lets be clear here D's comment about episodic content was directed at CoD4s length not an expansion pack. While CoD4s length is short and it is a con for the game its certainly not a deal breaker (given how great this game actually is when you play it) like D believes it should be.

[Xessive]

Agreed but lets be clear here D's comment about episodic content was directed at CoD4s length not an expansion pack. While CoD4s length is short and it is a con for the game its certainly not a deal breaker (given how great this game actually is when you play it) like D believes it should be.

Yeah, to each his own I guess.. I thought it was a fantastic, albeit brief, singleplayer campaign.

I can't actually buy the game though; it's still banned here.

[scottws]

I can't actually buy the game though; it's still banned here.

I didn't know that.  Is it because of violence in general, or its subject-matter?

[Xessive]

I didn't know that.  Is it because of violence in general, or its subject-matter?

It was a mix between subject-matter and certain content. The general perception here is that the game is supposedly "Anti-Arab" or "Anti-Islamic." Which are unfounded claim backed by mere rumours.

For example, one rumour was that in CoD4 there's a scene where you raid a mosque and assault some people (or "terrorists") mid-prayer. Curiously I checked it out and went through it thoroughly. The closest thing to having anything remotely resembling such a scenario was very faintly hearing the call to prayer in the distance, but never actually entering the vicinity of a mosque.

Since that was proven to be bullcrap, the next claim is it's "Anti-Arab." There's one particular guy who happens to be a bad guy and Arab, with his own little army of terroristic hooligans.

(click to show/hide)

Who, as it turns out, was working for the Russian faction behind it all. The majority of the game is hunting down Russian terrorists.

The game is not "anti-Arab" as much as it is "pro-anti-terrorism" as I've mentioned in the other CoD4 thread. It just feels reverse racism, where any slight gesture is misconstrued as a direct and overtly dramatic offense. Anyway, the "anti-Arab" claim is bullcrap too.

It's just really irritating when something is banned/censored based on the judgements and claims of the ignorant.

[Pugnate]

Crazy paranoid people.

[Ghandi]

Man, this thread really took off.

Just for the record, I wasn't actually serious with my first comment. I was just posting something absurd to see what the response would be. I don't pirate games, mostly because I can't run them. But yes, it is wrong and such. Anyways, carry on.

[MysterD]

I kinda agree with MyD on the episodic content pricing. Wasn't that the point of episodic games to begin with?

Exactly. The point of that was to have shorter stand-alone games at lower costs. Valve succeeded with that idea. And, the biggest point of episodic gaming -- is to pump out more of it, way more often; Valve didn't succeed there.

But of course, CoD4 coming w/ a robust MP portion kind of tanks the idea of it being sold for actual "episodic pricing."

Hence why I mentioned that if you want CoD4, you REALLY better plan to be into MP gaming, planning to spend time w/ the MP portion. B/c otherwise, if you're only into SP gaming -- is it really worth its pricetag of $50-60, no matter how amazingly fantastically great it is or isn't??

Now, if the CoD4 SP was sold alone (without MP) at $20, I dunno -- do you think gamers would jump for that???

One of my favorite shooters of all time is Max Payne 2, which is a SP Only game. How long it take to beat? Oh, around say some SIX to SEVEN hours. You think I paid $40-50 for that? HA!!! Waited for a price-drop; try $20. I am not going to spend $40-50 on a game that takes me one day to finish.

That's my stance on expansions too. An expansion should cost no more than 60% of its Full counterpart's price. Some people argue that expansions should be half or less.

I think that depends on expansion's game length, how much content is added to the actual game, and whatnot.

For example, most RPG expansions are VERY lengthy for an expansion pack -- 15 hours or more, normally; such as NWN: Hordes, NWN2: Mask, etc etc. BG2: TOB goes almost above and beyond the call of an expansion, as its length could easily take you over 40 hours; that could go for full price, b/c of its length and amount of content!

Now, would you throw down $30 expansion price tag for that kind of length of 15 hours plus on an expansion?? Sounds good to me; especially $30 is the usual price for a new game offering around 8-12 hours of content, these days and age.

For me that certainly doesn't mean I'm going to run out and pirate something every time, but for a lot of people I'll bet it does.  When you've been used to years of getting games that granted 10+ hours of game at the very least, 5 almost starts to sound like a joke.

I agree 100% w/ that Que.

Especially when you play SP components that last for around 10 hours, and they're just great the whole way through -- see FEAR. Or games that go around 15 hours or more and are great the whole way through -- see Mafia.

See, Bungie (Halo 3) and Infinity Ward (CoD4) are setting a new scary trend -- oh, the trend of "it's now OKAY for a full game to charge $50-60 for a SP component w/ only 4-6 hours, even though it ships w/ a very robust MP."

So, basically -- they're skimping on the SP Campaign gamers, but treating MP gamers like they're the ones to actually be catered to. Why ain't SP getting fair treatment here???

So, what's next then, if SP components are 4-6 hours, yet we have robust MP's??? Next thing we know, many FPS's for the SP Campaign -- even ones that have ONLY SP components -- will only be 4-6 hours in length. I'll bet cha, that's next -- and they'll charge full-game price for that, too. Then, what do we all know??? Will RPG's will start being commonly 10 hours in length?? Where will the insanity stop???

See, that's part of why I thought Unreal SP and UT (MP) got split in the first place -- so Unreal SP's could be these lengthy 15-20 hour SP campaigns at full price, making you glad you threw down those $40-60 bones so the designers could focus on one portion: making a good, lengthy SP. Meanwhile, the UT (MP) could be smashed w/ content galore out-the-box for the MP gamers, while offering a SDK to let them gamers expand upon that.

Well, that attempt failed; 1/2 failed. Unreal 2 turned out to be almost 10 hours, for most gamers -- so, gamers wanted a MP portion, which they later got; ain't we seen a Unreal SP since then, either. Meanwhile, the UT series still seems to live on....

[idolminds]

I liked this post on the subject at Shacknews:

There are lots of factors involved here, and to lump everyone into one category and vilify them is a failure to recognize the climate and adapt to the changes. The price for that misguided mindset, as the recording industry has seen, can be catastrophic.

I don't doubt there are people who will simply refuse to pay for games so long as a method exists to obtain them for free. Well, the technology exists, it's not going away, and any attempt to make computers NOT do something is always fifteen minutes behind a new way to enable them to do that very thing. I'd like to see someone in the industry stop throwing around billion-dollar estimates and admit to a harsh reality: games are being played for free by people who, if piracy never existed, would never play the game at all.

Don't focus on the people whose money was never in your pocket. Instead, work on winning the customers whose gaming dollars exist and are actually at stake. Win over the gamer who doesn't want to waste his occasional gaming purchase on something he'll play for six hours and then discard. If you can't help but make that six-hour game, figure out what your game is actually worth; don't lament your game's popularity in the used market. (Getting developers to stop making games people trade away is another rant entirely.)

Stop blaming others for your lack of success, or limited success, or God forbid, overwhelming success to which you just can't help but add a sour note. The question is "how do we win over more gamers?" Eliminating piracy has never been a realistic or feasible answer. More importantly, if you don't answer this one important question, you might eliminate piracy, only to find your game less played, less well-known, and not really pushing any more copies.

And I hate to see games stubbornly refuse to get better.

[MysterD]

One solution would be to sell SP and MP games separately.

Some gamers just ain't into MP -- so, how many gamers would purchase just the CoD4: SP Campaign for say $20? I think $20 for a SP component that's 4-6 hours makes sense; especially since that's the episodic gaming price for that kind of game-length.

Though, the next question is -- how much would gamers pay for the CoD4: MP Alone, which seems way more robust than the SP???

[gpw11]

It's not like you don't have an option here, you can wait for the game to drop in price.  In the meantime they're obviously going to charge full in hopes that people will buy it for the MP or just the SP and decide it's worth the cash to them.  Splitting it into 2-3 SKUs costs money and the current system seems to work as far as their concerned end of story.

There's no injustice here, the market dictates what they can and can not charge.  If they can get away with selling a 4 hour game for full price, then so be it.  I've played 4 hour games without MP that I think are worth 60 bucks. There seems to be some air of entitlement with certain posts here and it's pretty stupid. Just like anything else you vote with your dollars, and just like anything else you do your research before buying so you know what you're getting into.

[Jedi]

Hence why I mentioned that if you want CoD4, you REALLY better plan to be into MP gaming, planning to spend time w/ the MP portion. B/c otherwise, if you're only into SP gaming -- is it really worth its pricetag of $50-60, no matter how amazingly fantastically great it is or isn't??

If you had played the game D then you would know the answer to that question you colon wearing monkey.

See, Bungie (Halo 3) and Infinity Ward (CoD4) are setting a new scary trend

Have you played either of these games...?
Look if you don't want to pay full price for a 'short' game fine, but in the case of CoD4 you're missing out on something special. And the way I see it you value the game purely on the length of the game and not the quality (or anything else) as would be the case with CoD4. The market is willing to pay full price for a shorter game if there's greater quality etc. to be had, which I think you fail to understand. So don't sit there say we all got screwed because we value things differently than you.

[Ghandi]

I rented CoD4 when I was borrowing my friends 360 and it was the best fps that I've played in a long, long time. I would definitely purchase it. So you shouldn't criticize the game until you play it, D. Your opinions on the game are completely unfounded considering you views are based on nothing other than reviews / vids.

[Quemaqua]

It's not like you don't have an option here, you can wait for the game to drop in price.  In the meantime they're obviously going to charge full in hopes that people will buy it for the MP or just the SP and decide it's worth the cash to them.  Splitting it into 2-3 SKUs costs money and the current system seems to work as far as their concerned end of story.

There's no injustice here, the market dictates what they can and can not charge.  If they can get away with selling a 4 hour game for full price, then so be it.  I've played 4 hour games without MP that I think are worth 60 bucks. There seems to be some air of entitlement with certain posts here and it's pretty stupid. Just like anything else you vote with your dollars, and just like anything else you do your research before buying so you know what you're getting into.

I don't even read half of D's posts, so all I'm really responding to is with my own stuff in mind.

I don't feel entitled to anything, I'm simply of the opinion that most games of this length aren't worth the price, and that it's generally prohibitive for me unless something is really, really unique (Ico wasn't "the best" Ico-style game out at the time... it was Ico, a game to which very, very few games directly compared).  No matter how many of you feel that a 4 - 6 hour game might be worth $50 or $60, there's a huge number of people who think it isn't worth that even if it's totally awesome, and given that most people are dickweeds, that's going to equal piracy.  Right?

Of course the market dictates this stuff.  But just maybe if a 4 - 6 hour game like CoD4 is getting pirated all over the place that's because the market is trying to tell them they're charging way too much for way too little.  Jedi says they're willing... but maybe this is an indication that a large portion is not.  Again, none of you have to spend a billion and a half years trying to explain to me that I'm an idiot and that I don't know what I'm talking about and omg best game evar.  It doesn't fucking matter if the game is the best thing ever since that's totally irrelevant to someone who hasn't played it... and those are the people pirating the thing.  They don't know jack about it other than what they've read or seen in vids, and as Ghandi just said, that doesn't give you the real picture.  So the only thing they think they know is that the game is too short.

So for these specific kinds of people, who certainly don't make up anywhere near the whole of the people pirating the game, either the devs need to figure out a much better way to inform them that they're actually getting what is apparently the best FPS in the damned universe, or the devs need to realize that an awful lot of people aren't going to give a fuck in light of the super-short length.  People are obviously interested in the game enough to want to play it, otherwise they wouldn't go to the trouble of pirating it or be seen playing it online, but all that indicates to me is that these people have said no matter how good the game, too short is too short.  At least that's if things are as bad as the guy quoted in the OP makes them out to be.  For all we know he might be acting surprised about numbers that wouldn't surprise the rest of us so much, or this might just be hyperbole in general.  Without that information, who knows.

Anyway, I still think you guys aren't really trying to look at the length issue from a reasonable viewpoint.  No, this is not an explanation for every instance of piracy, but don't you think it could be a big factor?  I'm a hardcore gamer who buys tons and tons of games new and even at release, many that have up until very recently been considered short.  A 10 hour campaign was a huge negative for most people as little as a year ago... and for some still is.  I spent a lot of time defending The Darkness against those who claimed it was ultra-short and not worth the money, much the same way a lot of you guys are defending CoD4.  But even for me 4 - 6 hours is just not worth the cabbage.  That doesn't mean I'm going to pirate it, but you're almost cutting in half what had become the new standard for FPS games (a standard that a lot of people felt was totally unacceptable since many FPS games before that had offered around 15 - 20 hours).  You can't tell me you don't see how that's going to burn people even with a game that redefines a genre.

[Pugnate]

There's no injustice here, the market dictates what they can and can not charge.  If they can get away with selling a 4 hour game for full price, then so be it.  I've played 4 hour games without MP that I think are worth 60 bucks. There seems to be some air of entitlement with certain posts here and it's pretty stupid. Just like anything else you vote with your dollars, and just like anything else you do your research before buying so you know what you're getting into.

Exactly. No one is forcing you to steal it.

But it took me about six hours to finish COD4. I can't see anyone finishing it in 4!

[Xessive]

Exactly. No one is forcing you to steal it.

But it took me about six hours to finish COD4. I can't see anyone finishing it in 4!

I finished it in about 5½ hours. Awesome.

As you said, no one's forcing you to buy/steal it.

I think what most people are saying though is that they can't make a short game, price it much higher than its expected value, and expect good sales. For example, Portal is great but imagine it was selling individually at $40. I don't expect there'd be as many people buying it. Or even Sam & Max, what if each episode cost that much? Fans of the series would start out honest but inevitably turn to piracy or other means of acquisition. Then again that happens with anything that is considered "overpriced."

In the end games are a luxury, not a necessity of life. No one's forcing you to buy it.

Hehe imagine a world where our food is creative flow and movies, books, and games are a major source of nourishment

[Pugnate]

The thing with COD4 is that it is getting good sales. It has broken all sorts of freakin' records on the consoles. On the PC it has been the number 1 selling game since debut. Yes, since debut, it has outsold WoW and The Sims 2 etc, which is unheard of.

It stll has been a lot of sales lost.

As for Portal, yes it was a 4 hour $20 game... and yes on a level of innovation and artistry, it is worth a lot of money. But I can't imagine it cost a fraction of what it cost to make COD4.

Hehe imagine a world where our food is creative flow and movies, books, and games are a major source of nourishment Tongue

haha.. I miss you my friend.

Parent: Why is my son dying doctor?

Doctor: Just give him five doses of boobtastic lap dances every day for the next seven days, and he'll be fine.

Parent: Oh thank you.

Doctor: No problem. By the way, you are looking pale. Have you been playing your first person shooters? Looking at your porno?

[gpw11]

As for Portal, yes it was a 4 hour $20 game... and yes on a level of innovation and artistry, it is worth a lot of money. But I can't imagine it cost a fraction of what it cost to make COD4.

Well, not just that but Portal is *strictly* a 4 hour sp game.  CoD has the MP which can last for as long as you're interested.  If you're not interested in the MP that's fine but you have to take into account that they can charge this because a lot of people are. 

[Jedi]

I'm not at all interested in spending the rest of my life explaining anything to anyone, good post Q I think you've hit on the head (for me) but I've written this post and deleted it more than 3 times now so screw it I refuse to respond to the garbage that D posts for now on.

[gpw11]

figures that you'd get bored...this conversation has gone on for more than 6 hours now.



/MyD


Edit:  should that be "then"?  I can never figure that one out.

[nickclone]

I don't think any should hold piracy against someone if they can't find a game. The reason I bought a flash cart for my DS is because I couldn't find Phoenix Wright and Trauma Center. Once you have the flash cart theres no way you're not gonna use it.

[Quemaqua]

Yes those are really hard to find.


 ...

But I hear you.  I've gotten some classic games that way that are either impossible to find or cost hundreds of dollars to get a working copy.

[Xessive]

Or if it's banned in your country and none of the major online stores will ship to your country.. That's a good reason, right?

[nickclone]

Yes those are really hard to find.


 ...

But I hear you.  I've gotten some classic games that way that are either impossible to find or cost hundreds of dollars to get a working copy.

Over a year after they came out more copies were made, not many as you can still see by their high prices.

[PyroMenace]

Anyway, I still think you guys aren't really trying to look at the length issue from a reasonable viewpoint.  No, this is not an explanation for every instance of piracy, but don't you think it could be a big factor?  I'm a hardcore gamer who buys tons and tons of games new and even at release, many that have up until very recently been considered short.  A 10 hour campaign was a huge negative for most people as little as a year ago... and for some still is.  I spent a lot of time defending The Darkness against those who claimed it was ultra-short and not worth the money, much the same way a lot of you guys are defending CoD4.  But even for me 4 - 6 hours is just not worth the cabbage.  That doesn't mean I'm going to pirate it, but you're almost cutting in half what had become the new standard for FPS games (a standard that a lot of people felt was totally unacceptable since many FPS games before that had offered around 15 - 20 hours).  You can't tell me you don't see how that's going to burn people even with a game that redefines a genre.

Honestly, I dont think the game length is a big factor. Isn't it true that a large chunk of gamers who buys games never finish them? Its even a little notorious among some of us. I think your underestimating the audience of gamers that strictly cling to MP games, which is HHUUUUGE. I mean Im certainly under the impression that gamers who look to SP games, which defines most of this community, are a shrinking minority. CoD4s multiplayer rivals Halo 3, and from personal experience, it is really a great MP game. From the popularity I keep reading about, its like the next Counter Strike, but dont quote me on that.

[Pugnate]

What if I do?

[K-man]

Anyway, I still think you guys aren't really trying to look at the length issue from a reasonable viewpoint.  No, this is not an explanation for every instance of piracy, but don't you think it could be a big factor?  I'm a hardcore gamer who buys tons and tons of games new and even at release, many that have up until very recently been considered short.  A 10 hour campaign was a huge negative for most people as little as a year ago... and for some still is.  I spent a lot of time defending The Darkness against those who claimed it was ultra-short and not worth the money, much the same way a lot of you guys are defending CoD4.  But even for me 4 - 6 hours is just not worth the cabbage.  That doesn't mean I'm going to pirate it, but you're almost cutting in half what had become the new standard for FPS games (a standard that a lot of people felt was totally unacceptable since many FPS games before that had offered around 15 - 20 hours).  You can't tell me you don't see how that's going to burn people even with a game that redefines a genre.

Your argument here would be valid if you actually played the game.  If you still feel the same way after playing it, that's cool.  I'm not saying you're wrong by any means.  But don't you think it's a little suspect that the people who have posted who have played the game all pretty much agree that the game is worth the money.  Much like you would agree that Ico or Darkness was worth the money.  Hell, you don't even have to buy CoD4, just rent it or something.  You should be able to complete the SP campaign in 5-6 hours on normal, 8-10 on Veteran.  It is short, I'll admit.  But you know how campaigns have those low points?  Those yawners that make you wish the sequence would end so you could do something fun in the game?  The SP campaign contains NONE of that.  It's all meaty goodness and zero filler.  A 4-5 hour consistently awesome campaign is much more appealing to me than a 10-15 hour campaign that I have to slag through and be bored with continually to only get an occasional fun sequence.

I'm sure you remember me having some pretty strong criticisms of Bioshock.  But I did take the time to play through it.  I wouldn't have been justified to make those criticisms if I hadn't played it, and I'm sure I would have been called out much like you're being called out now.

But to answer your question regarding piracy, I don't think the length has much at all to do with the game being pirated.  It's a high-profile release, and it's apparently easy to pirate/play online.  I would estimate that the majority of people pirating it now would have done so if the SP campaign were 20 hours.

I apologize if this post seems kinda thrown together, because it is.  I'm at work and going back and forth between doing stuff for work and typing this out.

[K-man]

Also, as an aside.  Due to the quality of the campaign, I had a strong desire to play through the campaign again (and am doing so).  If the game had been 10-15 hours I probably couldn't have tackled it.  I know I certainly don't have any interest in replaying the Halos, or even the previous CoD's.  I don't have the time with video games that I used to, and the fact that I have interest in replaying a game I've already beaten when I've got stacks of games I've yet to finish the first time speaks both to the quality of the campaign, and the overall worth of the package.  At least to me.

[Ghandi]

If you are just going to play the SP campaign then just rent the game. It's not like you have to pay 50 bucks to play the SP, and you know that you can finish it in time.

[Quemaqua]

I'm not trying to argue that the game isn't worth it to some, and I'm certainly not trying to say that there aren't people out there who totally love the MP portions.  Don't misinterpret me here.  Obviously the game has sold obscenely well, so it isn't like there's really some kind of piracy problem here.  These people are making shitloads of money.  I'm simply trying to list one reason that I think certain individuals have begun pirating more games.  This isn't even specific to CoD4, nor have I attempted to say that it is.  Again, it does not matter to me how good CoD4 is.  I don't play games like that online much if at all these days, and even if the game is totally and supremely awesome, it's just too short to spend that kind of money on unless it did something beyond being a really great FPS.  Period.  Sure, I could rent it.  Maybe I will.  But the point is that I think you guys are underestimating the negative effect game length can have on user opinion.  It doesn't mean the thing won't sell well, but you can bet that if CoD4 and Halo 3 were double the length, there's a significant number of people who didn't buy them who'd probably have done so.  These are extremely popular franchises, so they've got absolutely zero need to cater to the whims of pretty much anybody, especially when you've got the generally glowing critical opinion, but most of the complaints you hear from people are about the length, and not every franchise is popular enough or well-developed enough to get away with such an overall dearth of content.  A campaign that short would kill most lesser games.  Yes, for fuck's sake I know you think CoD4 is the best possible exception, and that's fine, but we're not just talking about that one game here.  I'm trying to give a reason for increased piracy in a group of people to which I belong.  That's all.

As for Pyro's comment on people not beating games... I dunno'.  I don't have issues beating a 20 hour game pretty much ever, unless it just sucks.  The only games I regularly fail to beat are 60-100 hour RPGs and such.  Very, very few are the FPS games I've played that I haven't finished, and not a single one was ever related to it being too long, that's for sure.  It's always been related to them not being compelling enough to slog through, like K-Man said.  But we're talking maybe 1 or 2 games here.

[idolminds]

To go with what que says, game length does matter to some people. I don't have a lot of money to go buy stuff at $50, I make very few exceptions. Otherwise I wait until they are much much cheaper. If I'm lucky enough to have $50 to spend and I'm choosing between a game that has a short SP campaign or a long SP campaign, I'm going to go with the longer game. Even if it might not be as good overall.

Multiplayer rarely factors in for me unless I'm buying a MP focused game like UT.

[Jedi]

This is the thing many of us have stated CoD4 is worth the money despite its short length, and now Q and Idol have articulated why a game being so short is a deal breaker. All is good because we’re not all robots and we think differently I’m happy with that.
What pissed me off (yes it actually did piss me off) is that D without playing the game stated that players would be boned if they didn’t spend hours in MP which for me at least was complete bull and yet I am one of those layers he was talking about. If he had said D would feel boned if he bought the game and didn’t spend hours in MP then fine, but he didn’t he climb up on his soap box and ONCE AGAIN stated something that’s unfounded.

How this relates to piracy (and the topic of this thread) I haven’t a clue!

[K-man]

I felt boned when I paid 5 bucks for Bad day LA.  It's not even worth pirating.

Fuck you, American McGee!

[Pugnate]

hehe.. well I noticed that D hasn't logged in in a long while since the backlash in this thread.

Yea I was really annoyed with his posts as well. It seems like he just has a rant full of paragraphs filled with single spaced questions, which are getting more frequent, and have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT.

For example the topic could be about EA's new online distribution system, and he will just go on and on with the same question filled rant about EA crapping on their existing franchises or something. His post will be a total departure from the actual discussion.

I also dread whenever D enters a thread on an MMORPG. D will hijack such threads, totally ignoring the topics and discussions at hand, and just go on with the same fucking rant about how he refuses to pay a monthly fee. The topic could have nothing to do with monthly fees, but D will keep posting about it, until someone bites, which will be the perfect excuse for D to post solutions for the problem only he sees. This will go on in an MMORPG thread that had nothing to do with monthly fees, and will be totally derailed because of D's persistent postage of bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

The underlying issue is that D will post a dilemma which is totally ridiculous, and will find maybe one person in agreement, which will be his cue to go post an even more ridiculous solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Like monthly fees... WoW has 10 fucking million subscribers. I think that's hint enough that people have warmed up to that monthly subscription thing.

Now here is the most retarded post of the decade:

One solution would be to sell SP and MP games separately.

Some gamers just ain't into MP -- so, how many gamers would purchase just the CoD4: SP Campaign for say $20? I think $20 for a SP component that's 4-6 hours makes sense; especially since that's the episodic gaming price for that kind of game-length.

Though, the next question is -- how much would gamers pay for the CoD4: MP Alone, which seems way more robust than the SP???

When I gave in and read that, my first reaction was W T F? That solution makes absolutely no fucking sense, since COD4 is the best selling PC and console title since debut. Not enough people have a problem with that game for the developers to take the time and effort to make two separate versions that are bound to confuse buyers, split sales, and screw things up royally. Just on consoles, COD4 is a phenomenon with record breaking sales.

Then it's that 4-6 hours crap. I swear if D would finish COD4 on normal settings in 4 hours at the pace he normally plays at, I'd BUY HIM THE GAME. I am sure he knows that it will take him at least 6-7 to finish it, yet he will keep saying 4-6 because it helps his argument.

But then again,  I think D is just lost in his own little world.

Look, we all goof off, we all derail topics and we all just fuck around in this community. But it seems that in the last few months in between all the refreshing stuff D posts, he has those five insane rants, that he somehow posts longer versions of randomly. Hell the topic could be Elephant assholes, and he'll take the E from elephants with the A from assholes, and just go on a rant about EA. It could be a topic about Jessica Alba having steamy lesbian sex, and he'll go on a rant about STEAM.

*whew*

I am sorry. I think I snapped.

[Quemaqua]

Wow.  To attempt to address a couple things:

D, if you read this, I hope you don't think people generally dislike you, because I'm sure that's not true... but Pug does have a point.  Not everything is about hot-button issues, as much as I may sometimes share nitpicks about certain things with you.  It can be difficult to go through some of your posts when you're beating a dead horse.  I do enough of that myself, God knows, but maybe we should work on that, eh?

I think K-Man's assertion about Bad Day L.A. is something we can all get behind.  Some things just really aren't up for debate.  What the hell happened there is a mystery to me, but that game sucked.

Jedi's post I think pretty well sums up in a couple sentences why there are differences in opinion on the length topic.  We're all different and get different things from different games.  Most probably there isn't a single one of us that wouldn't enjoy CoD4 if we played it, but different situations dictate different approaches even when you know something is great.  Lots of people have the Guitar Hero games, for instance, and while Idol and I both acknowledge that they're really fun (even I have come more around to them after playing some Frets on Fire and realizing how much better GH is), the price is still prohibitive for us.  It just is, unless you can find a good sale.  Anyway, I've been trying to relate the length debate to piracy, though I don't know that it worked out so well, but it applies here too: people pirate stuff for different reasons.  Maybe there are so many reasons we'll never actually know what the greatest contributing factors are, or what portions of those who pirate games subscribe to specific demographics.  It's interesting to think about, but there's really no way to track it.  Though the more I think on it, the more I think that a piracy survey would probably be really interesting to read.  Maybe somebody should find a way to do one.

[Jedi]

I don’t want bang on about this any further and make D feel alienated or anything but Pug has expressed exactly how I feel from start to finish. I am glad that someone has finally said this as every time I try I get pissed off and give up.

D please don’t take this as an attempt to lynch you because I do think you’re a good guy, I think of you like Butters from South Park, and you do add to this community with your news posts, but you also have a tendency to pigheadedly crusade against minor/silly things and it gets annoying when a discussion goes off the rails.

Now that it's been said I’ll shut up as I don’t want D to feel unwelcome or that I hate him and I certainly don’t want to drive him away.


By the way...

It could be a topic about Jessica Alba having steamy lesbian sex, and he'll go on a rant about STEAM.

HAHAHA Just f**king brilliant!

[Pugnate]

I wrote that before I went to bed, and I woke up having completely forgotten about writing that. Now I feel like crap. Honestly, my post was a bit too harsh, and I think Que put it better than I did.

D you are a genuinely nice guy, and even though I've only known you online, you are one of the few unique personalities I'll know for the whole of my life. I also have no hesitation in saying you are the nicest person on this forum. You just need to stop whoring the hot topics.

I think of you like Butters from South Park

hehe.

Now that it's been said I’ll shut up as I don’t want D to feel unwelcome or that I hate him and I certainly don’t want to drive him away.

Exactly. He is one of the most important members of this community. Without him this would be a ghost town.

[K-man]

I think D just kinda posts what's on his mind, without really putting it into any sort of structure.  Not saying it's a bad thing to just kinda post a stream of consciousness, as it has it's place.  However, it certainly doesn't lend itself very well to serious discussion.  You also sometimes make assertions that are way off track or simply not true, and those are always the posts I cringe at.  That's been my only real gripe with you D.  I can also see that you're a nice person at heart, and you're obviously a key member of the forum.

[Cobra951]

I've defended D before, and I'll do it again now.  We all have gotten on each other's nerves at one point or another, but we'd be worse off as a community without all the individual personalities and contributions.  It seems to me that D sometimes keeps the gaming forum alive singlehandedly.  For every topic you may think he "derailed", think of how many he started that went a long way.

But there is no excuse for a 4-hour game priced at $50 and up.  None.  Sorry!  There, I threw down my gauntlet.

[gpw11]

I agree with Cobra on the whole D thing.  Even though he likes Mulholland Drive for some whacked ass reason, he does contribute a lot and it's not really fair for everyone to jump on him at once.  If he posts something that annoys you, bring it up at the time or ignore him.  It's kind of a dick move to have like 4 people all of a sudden start picking someone apart - like a mob smelling blood once the first person grew the balls to throw a rock.

As for the no excuse for a 4 hour game priced at $50, I can't agree there.  I personally think absolutes like that are ridiculous.  I personally think there is no excuse to charge over $10 for a game like Aquaria in this day and age.  Especially when most of the competition is $10 or less on the VC.  Ok, no I don't but you get what I'm saying.  Why not make UT3 free?  I mean, I don't even like MP and that's pretty much all that's there.

[Cobra951]

A conversation over at IRC boiled the expectation down to a figure, $3/hour.  That's for quality interactive entertainment, not filler schlock.  I agree that a 40-hour game where you only enjoy 4 hours is no better.  I wouldn't want to buy that game either.

Obviously, it's not as simple as putting a price per hour on games. This is just an expectation guideline, and by that guideline, CoD4 would be worth $12-15 to me, all other things being equal.  If it's the best 4 hours of gaming in the history of mankind, I'd gladly double that--$24-30.