Topic: Fuck Xbox Live, fuck Microsoft, and fuck my 360

[PyroMenace]

I thought he had gotten the RRoD fixed.  I thought the problem now is that it won't download anything with media-rights restrictions, no?

Right, thats what the problem was, I even wrote them a descriptive letter of the problem so there was no confusion. It apparently had no affect, I assume they saw the letter, didnt give a fuck about it, probably passed the Xbox down the line to some other people to look at it, they turned it on, saw it didnt red ring, and packed it back up.

[K-man]

Well, hopefully Game Crazy will remedy the issue completely tomorrow...and in the process get an HDMI unit!

[Ghandi]

This thread makes me glad that I never bought a 360. I would love to play some of the games on the system but it's definitely not worth the purchase, given that the system is very likely to fail.

[K-man]

This thread makes me glad that I never bought a 360. I would love to play some of the games on the system but it's definitely not worth the purchase, given that the system is very likely to fail.

Eh, you'd have a point with older units, but they're a lot better than they were.  And as annoying as it is at least they're covering every unit that RRoD's. 

Course the rep kinda sticks no matter what now.

[Ghandi]

Well they have to cover units that RRoD - it's their fault. They don't exactly get points for it.

Besides, even if they do have them fixed now (and sources on that?) I think that the PS3 is a better buy at this point. It didn't have a big library to begin with but it has some nice titles coming up, plus it has the blu-ray player to boot. And it won't fucking die on you unexpectedly.

[Quemaqua]

After purchasing a PS3 myself, I'd say I agree.  The library isn't there yet, but it's getting there, and people seem to finally be coming to grips with how to program for it properly, so it'll only get better from here where multiplatform releases are concerned (though expect a few more bumps in the road).

[Cobra951]

Well they have to cover units that RRoD - it's their fault. They don't exactly get points for it.

Besides, even if they do have them fixed now (and sources on that?) I think that the PS3 is a better buy at this point. It didn't have a big library to begin with but it has some nice titles coming up, plus it has the blu-ray player to boot. And it won't fucking die on you unexpectedly.

Yes, I agree completely.  Now it is.  A year ago, it was a waste of money.  Late '06 is when I was in the market for a new console, and to me, it was a clear choice then.  The 360's RRoD curse did not loom large.  I didn't even hear about it until later, and retailers were still offering extended warranties on 360s.  The library appealed to me, as did the power of the system.  I threw my lot in with Microsoft, and that was that.  If I had it to do all over again, I still would not have gotten a PS3 back then--but it's a moot point.  I have a library of over 20 games on DVD and at least as many from XBLA.  I'm beyond the point of no return.  I hope the design revisions correct the problem, but unless they can be retrofit to my console, or they replace my console (something fraught with its own set of problems), it doesn't benefit me.  And you're right, there's no guarantee yet that the design revisions will fix anything in the long run.  There are more changes to the 360's motherboard in the works right now.

[K-man]

XBL and the 360 controller still trump PS3's offerings thus-far.  The dual shock design is nowhere near as ergonomic and comfortable as the 360 pad.  The home update looks promising, but there's still a long way to go before Sony manages a feature set like XBL's.

Sony's making a few good decisions and the PS3 is starting to catch up, that much is certain.  Whether Sony is smart enough to keep up the momentum?  Who knows.

[Quemaqua]

I'll have to disagree with you on the controller.  Everyone here for the meet agrees (except possibly idol, I can't remember if he weighed in) agrees that the PS3 controller is infinitely superior.  I fucking hate the 360 controller.  It was okay before, and it's relatively comfortable, but now that I've got what's essentially just a PS2 controller with triggers, I absolutely hate going back to use the 360.  Most likely any game I can buy on both platforms that actually performs well on PS3 I'll be buying for PS3 instead of 360, and that's also thanks to the hard drive which I don't have for the 360 because they made the idiot decision to not make that a standard thing.

I will agree, however, that XBL is superior in a lot of ways.  I truly hate the 360 interface, especially in the face of the PS3's much more expedient and elegant solution, but the Playstation Store is pretty lame.  It's hard to find things, it navigates funny, and I just don't like it much in general.  Plus there's that credit card address headache so many have experienced that's just stupid.  Still, it did end up getting the job done for me, and the fact that I can actually play the games I have online for free is a huge plus (and 360 has no standard wireless without paying an assload for the stupid dongle which I absolutely will not do, so if I do decide to move that one to the living room, no XBL or anything for me anyway).  Overall I'm much happier with my PS3 than my 360, and the only thing that keeps the 360 in the superior range is the fact that it's got a bigger library.  If that changes, I'm a PS3 man all the way.

I really wasn't expecting to be such a convert, but I think what it ultimately came down to was finally having something to compare directly to the 360.  I didn't have that before and thus didn't realize quite how much I didn't like about the 360.  Once a superior component/methodology came down the pipeline, it was easy to see how much I'd simply been putting up with on the other end.

[PyroMenace]

Well to each his own as far as controller preference is concerned. I will say that I do prefer the 360's controller over a PS controller. The button placements themselves with both controllers are similar, but the analog stick positions and the trigger buttons feel much more comfortable on the 360 to me, even the shape of itself feels more well molded to my hands.

Anyway, controller discussion aside, I just got back from Gamecrazy where I originally bought my 360 and got it replaced. Me and K-Man know the manager and he was able to work with me, he said its against their policy to even consider replacements until after Microsofts warranty is up, but he was able to make an exception here even if he has to deal with his superiors about it. So its a brand new Pro unit with an HDMI port, so that worked out nicely considering all the bullshit I went through.

[Pugnate]

I most definitely preferred the Xbox controller over the PS2, though I haven't yet experienced this current gen's PS3 controller. Also, I don't know about the guys from OW, but I've seen the vast majority of journalists state they find the the 360 controller to be superior.

Again, I haven't seen either of the new ones. (edit: I speak of PS3)

I also didn't like the first design of the 360 controller, but the second slight modification was perfect. (I actually meant Xbox 1. It was five in the morning here. )

For some reason the PS2 controller really hurt my hands after prolonged use.

edit:

WHOOOPS. I mean the first Xbox controller revision.

[scottws]

There are different revisions of the 360 controller?  I wasn't aware of that.

Whatever revision I have, I like it.  I haven't held the PS3's controller.

As for the 360 vs. PS3 thing overall, if I had neither and was choosing one today, it would be the PS3.  While XBLA is very nice, it's not a deal-breaker.  The 360's library is just too similar to the PC's.

[Ghandi]

I hated the Xbox controller after they made it smaller. I know that most people hated the huge controllers on the original Xbox but I found them perfect.

[K-man]

Generally topics around here can contain a myriad of opinions.  But really I can't see how anyone would prefer the dual shock design over the 360 pad.  The 360 pad is MUCH more ergonomic, feels more solid in your hand, and the placement of the buttons overall just work out better.  The PS3 pad specifically is a flimsy piece of shit.  The trigger buttons also suck ass.  They're mushy and have shady responsiveness.  I haven't held a dual shock 3 yet, but hopefully by adding weight the controller will at least feel more solid.  I was very saddened when I learned that Sony was throwing all of their mockup designs out the window to continue with the tired design of the dual shock controller.  It may have at one time been considered ergonomic, but much better things have come since.  Considering how much the analog stick is used, it should be on the face where the D-pad is (and where your thumb naturally rests when gripping the controller), not down at the bottom of the pad.  Also, the L/R buttons suffer from poor placement.  it feels awkward to grip the trigger buttons.

I understand we are a creature of habit, but Sony could have really provided a much better controller with their new flagship system.  I'm tired of the old blocky Dual Shock design, and it really doesn't compare to the 360's at all.

And Pug, explain this 360 pad revision.  I know nothing of it.  Unless you made a typo and were really talking about the original xbox design.

And Que, regarding the hard drive.  You can't blame Microsoft for the lack of an HD in your system solely because *you* made the choice to purchase a system without one.  I personally hate the fact that some 360's don't come with HD's, but then I would never own one without an HD to begin with.  In fact, if they were to eliminate the "arcade" systems, drop the price of a 20 gig HD to like 50 bucks or so, and start requiring users to have one, I'd be one happy camper (and those that originally bought the core/arcade system would be out less money than the ones that ponied up for the pro to begin with).

[Quemaqua]

I never said it wasn't my fault, but they gave me the option and I only had so much money to spare.  I agree that it should have been forced... that's my point.  If I didn't have the option, I wouldn't have had the option, but since they made that decision I knew most games wouldn't require it and since I didn't care about any of the online stuff, what was the point in spending the extra money when I didn't have it?

Anyway, I'm glad you guys all love the 360 controller and such, but I don't care for it at all.  Ergonomics mean nothing to me.  Neither controller makes my hands hurt or makes me feel uncomfortable in the least, I simply enjoy playing games on what I consider to be the superior design.  All my PC controllers are basically exact duplicates of the PS2 controller design as well.  I agree that the sixaxis controllers are too light, but that doesn't bother me at all when playing.  If given the option between the two, I'll always take the PS3 controller.  Pretty much everything K-Man said about them in the first paragraph of his last post I find to be exactly opposite of my own thoughts.  I hate the 360 triggers with a passion and kind of always have, but I love the PS3 triggers, and I like the placement of the analog sticks right where they are.  To each his own.

[Pugnate]

There are different revisions of the 360 controller?  I wasn't aware of that.

And Pug, explain this 360 pad revision.  I know nothing of it.  Unless you made a typo and were really talking about the original xbox design.

Sorry guys... I meant the first Xbox controller. I don't have the 360 controller, but have used it a few times at my friend's place and liked it well enough.

[Cobra951]

And Que, regarding the hard drive.  You can't blame Microsoft for the lack of an HD in your system solely because *you* made the choice to purchase a system without one.  I personally hate the fact that some 360's don't come with HD's, but then I would never own one without an HD to begin with.  In fact, if they were to eliminate the "arcade" systems, drop the price of a 20 gig HD to like 50 bucks or so, and start requiring users to have one, I'd be one happy camper (and those that originally bought the core/arcade system would be out less money than the ones that ponied up for the pro to begin with).

It's a mistake at a global level, because it takes away the power of a hard drive from the hands of game developers.  Streaming can benefit immensely by dumping parts of the game data into the hard drive.  If the devs can't assume there's a HDD, they have to design everything to work solely off the DVD.  This problem was specifically brought up in Criterion podcasts in reference to Burnout Paradise, so it's not just theory out of my butt.  The lead platform for that game is the PS3.  They had to work the problem on the 360, and did a marvelous job, considering.  The 1.2 patch, if it ever comes out, is supposed to correct the few remaining hitches in the 360 streaming.

[Cobra951]

I got back a 360--not mine, but a replacement.  I don't know where this thing has been.  It seems to work OK, except for the stupid problem with XBLA games not working unless I'm logged into XBL.  That sucks too hard for me to leave it alone.  I read somewhere that there's a way now to rectify that, but I have to involve MS support again.  Joy.  Assault Heroes would not work unless I updated it.  That's because if I refuse the update, I get logged off--and as I said, I have to be logged on to play my arcade games.  (Otherwise, I get the trial versions.)  The game locked up after playing for a about a half hour.  That did not inspire a whole lot of confidence.  Either the patch is fucked, the update process got fucked, or the machine is fucked.  Then I played Crackdown for about 2 hours, and that worked fine.  So it's probably not the machine.  Poker Smash got a much-needed patch, and I played that last, for a good while.  No problems.

XBL is very slow, and I really don't know if it's an issue with the clusterfuck that switching consoles involves, or if it's a problem with the service.  On the whole, I've lost a lot of confidence in the system, and I don't think I'll be buying anything online at all for some time to come.  Piss.

[idolminds]

Just because I can, I'll weigh in on the controller thing.

I don't really have a preference. They both work, they don't make my hands hurt, and after 2 minutes of playing a game I don't even think about what controller I'm using.

Ok, not really that interesting of a response. Whoops. Though I will say I even liked the Gamecube controller. Only problem with it is that little purple Z button. I always forget its there.

[Cobra951]

I like the GC controller.  The Z button is the only retarded thing about it, but they know it, and so only use it for things that don't require a fast response.  The general layout with the left stick on the face instead of the bottom is pretty much what it should be otherwise.

I found my answer to fixing the problem with DLC on the new console right away.  It's obvious on the main support page.  I guess they got enough grief about it to finally do something about it.

Important Information About Your Downloaded Content After Console Repair/Refurbishment

Notice to customers who have had their Xbox 360 consoles serviced by Microsoft: If you previously downloaded content from Xbox LIVE Marketplace prior to your console service, you need to connect to Xbox LIVE to restore the licenses for that content on this console. If you don't, you'll only be able to use that content when signed in to Xbox LIVE with the profile that originally downloaded the content.

 

To restore your licenses:

   1. Attach your hard drive or memory unit.
   2. Turn on the console.
   3. Sign in to Xbox LIVE with the gamer profile that originally downloaded the content.
   4. Go to Xbox LIVE Marketplace and select Account Management, Download History.
   5. Select an item and then select Download Again.
   6. Repeat step 5 for each item in your download history.

After you download your content again, anyone on this console can use it, whether you're signed in to Xbox LIVE or not.

License restoration will only work on the console as returned to you by Microsoft’s service center.

Now to see if it actually works.  Redownload everything.  Great.  Pain in the ass.

Edit:  Nope.  It's a lie.  I'm thinking it only applies if you get your own console back.  Into the breach once more, dear friends . . .

[PyroMenace]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT.

[Ghandi]

You just saved a bunch of money on your car insurance?

[PyroMenace]

Ghandi, you're the one who put it best.

[scottws]

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT.

Who wants to place bets on how long before MysterD comes in here and actually answers this question?

[Pugnate]

Sorry, I haven't kept up. Was this a new one or a replacement?

[MysterD]

Microsoft needs to stop screwin' their customers over - whether it's 360 gamers; Windows gamers; or gamers who do both.

Of course, they been doin' this screwin' since their old Windows days...

[Ghandi]

Ghandi, you're the one who put it best.

Haha...completely forgot about that. Good stuff.

[PyroMenace]

Sorry, I haven't kept up. Was this a new one or a replacement?

This one is 2 years old, and will be the 3rd that red ringed.

[MysterD]

This one is 2 years old, and will be the 3rd that red ringed.

That's freakin' bullshit.

[Cobra951]

This is such horseshit.  I'm not even sure what to say.  I'd like to recommend the latest chipset, which uses 80-100 watts less than the original design.  But hell, I don't know how long mine will last.  I'd like to believe they've fixed the issue finally, but I don't trust them.  Every time Fallout 3 hangs, I hold my breath, wondering if the hardware blew again.  Who needs that aggravation?  Besides, you know they won't replace yours with a Jasper, and why should you have to go buy one?  You already spent good money on the platform.

Sorry, Pyro.

[Pugnate]

This one is 2 years old, and will be the 3rd that red ringed.

That's insane. Absolutely nuts.

Was this a third new one that red ringed, or a third repaired/replaced one from MS's warranty thing?

My first RRODed n a year even though it was a falcon. I paid $50 to get it repaired, and it failed on me again a month later... this time beyond repair.

Here's the real twist: I didn't even use the damn thing that much. I basically used it whenever my friends were over on the weekend, or when my brother was over. At peak use, I'd say I used it for 4-6 hours a day, maybe three days a week. The only games I played it on it extensively alone, were GTA4 and SF4. It just wasn't enough use for it to crap out.

I got a Jasper and only recently have started to use it (aside from the occasional game of Fifa 10), playing Splinter Cell: Conviction. Let's hope it lasts...

[K-man]

My second one went Wednesday.  Still covered under warranty, thank Jebus.

[Quemaqua]

Like I said... my friend at work is on his 6th box.  Fuck these people.

[gpw11]

aaaaand that settled that.  I'm getting a PS3.

[Cobra951]

Yes.  Without a vested interest in the 360 (library of games already bought, or all your friends play on XBL, etc), I think getting a PS3 is close to a no-brainer.  The Jasper needs to get older before it proves itself (if it ever does).  Right now, it's still a crapshoot.