Topic: Upgrade

[poomcgoo]

Ok I got lazy and never did this, but I finally got together some parts I wanted to buy for my desktop.  I already have an 8800GT I ordered so the graphics card isn't in this list.  I don't need hard drives or anything that's not included, I was just wondering if this was the best choice on a budget.


GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail   $89.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail $189.99
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit - Retail $46.99
APEVIA ATX-CW500WP4 ATX 500W Power Supply - Retail $34.99
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM $5.99

Subtotal:     $367.95

Also, do I need the Arctic Silver?  Is it any different than thermal paste?  I've never assembled the processor/hsf operation and I know it's a delicate process so I want to be sure not to fuck it up.  Anybody have advice or a link that may help?

[TheOtherBelmont]

You really don't need the Arctic Silver, you can use the cheapest paste possible, its what I've been doing for years and I have yet to have a processor overheat on me.

[Pugnate]

Yea thermal paste is overrated. It looks good to me, and wise choice on the processor if you are only concerned with gaming.

If you can afford it, spend another $40 and get 2 more GB of RAM, which is fairly cheap at the moment. I was against getting 4GB back when it cost $300 for 2GB DDR2 800.

edit:

4GB RAM will have no benefits for gaming, other than Assassin's Creed. If you use 32 bit Vista, you won't detect more than 3GB. Keep that in mind.

Oh and order Crysis while you are at it.

edit:

Post the RAM and mobo make on anandtech to get some comments on compatibility. Check the reviews on newegg to make sure the RAM is great.

[beo]

arctic silver is meant to be a "premium" thermal compound. i've used it in the past and it seems ok, but the stuff you get with retail boxed cpus does the job just fine.

as far as the processor goes, you might want to go for one of the cheaper options. a big chunk of the intel duos use exactly the same core, just clocked to different speeds. it's simply a matter of changing the multiplier of the cpu in the bios to match your desired speed. i've seen many reports of the 1.6ghz and 1.8ghz models running at 3ghz on just the stock cooling (and apparently with complete reliability) - something i can't yet confirm since i've had to put my upgrade back again.

the psu. hmm... never heard of that brand. as you may be aware, bad psu's are often the cause of stability problems. 500W from brand "A" does not equal 500W from brand "B". also (and i'm really not 100% on this), but 500W may be cutting it a little fine for a 8800GT. the 8800 series are very power hungry, the GT drawing around 115W on it's own - which is between double and triple that of most previous generation cards. it really depends how many drives, cards and other bits you're going to have in there.

no idea about g.skill ram. i've always stuck to crucial when possible - it's reliable and cheap. the 800mhz speed is good but could be better. you can get 1066mhz ram pretty cheap now, although the gigabyte board you listed may not support that speed. the asus P5K does however, and probably goes for a very similar price. as far as the motherboard goes, i've never owned a gigabyte board, but both abit and asus are generally recommended higher and i can speak for their quality on both counts.

[scottws]

Yeah I would never buy a generic PSU.  I would only get something like an Antec or an OCZ.  It will cost a whole lot more, but a bad PSU can not only cause instability (possibly resulting in data loss and/or file system corruption) but it can potentially short out your motherboard.

As far as wattage, I don't know about what beo said.  But I have a 550W PSU (Antec TruPower II) and an 8800GTS and don't have any trouble.

At the current price of RAM, I would get nothing less than 4GB.  Sure, with an x86 system you're only going to see 3GB, but that's still an extra GB and if you move to x64 you'll have all 4GB.  RAM is so cheap now it's not even funny.

G.Skill is a good brand, but I've heard its one of the least compatible RAM modules on the market.  You'll have to do some research to make sure it will work ok with that motherboard you selected.

[JacksRag(e)]

The parts seem ok, but I think you should really pay a little more for a better power supply.  That and maybe spend a little more now on a psu with more wattage so that if you do intend to upgrade again in the future, you'll still have your current one to use.

I've heard a lot of good things about G.skill, and so I decided to get 2 gigs of their RAM for my laptop.  It's been pretty good so far. Just as reliable as the others, I'd say.

[poomcgoo]

Good call on the power supply.  I was looking to save a few bucks, but the reason I'm upgrading is mostly because my last PSU died and shorted the mobo.  Would be stupid of me to get another cheap one.  I'm going with this:

Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU ATX 12V 2.0 500W Power Supply $59.99

Still pretty cheap, and has great reviews.  Plus mail-in rebate ends up making it the same price.

EDIT: Also, the G Skill ram is compatible with the mobo I have up there, I made sure to check before I made the list.  Should I go with another mobo still?

[Pugnate]

I'll vouch for the Asus P5. My P5W DH Deluxe keeps receiving bios updates that allows it to use the latest in processors and RAM. Having said that, it won't be as fast as the latest Intel mobo tech, i.e. the P5E3.

t's simply a matter of changing the multiplier of the cpu in the bios to match your desired speed. i've seen many reports of the 1.6ghz and 1.8ghz models running at 3ghz on just the stock cooling (and apparently with complete reliability) - something i can't yet confirm since i've had to put my upgrade back again.

Definitely can get some good overclocking going on the processors with lower L2 caches, but from 1.6 to 3ghz on stock cooling is probably stretching it just a wee bit. My 2.2 E6400 is running at 2.81 since purchase, without fault. OC'ing is very easy, and can be managed with patient tweaking, and testing the higher clocking with Orthos. But you need RAM that comes with good heat spreaders to offset the heat generated by the higher RAM voltage.

From the overclocking forums, I've seen people unable to go past 2.85 safely without third party cooling. Something like a fan from Zalman would help get you past 3.0.

500W from brand "A" does not equal 500W from brand "B"

Very true.

but 500W may be cutting it a little fine for a 8800GT

I think they recommend a 500W supply, but it should be branded. Like Beo said, 550 should be safer, though a reliable 500 should be fine I think. You should e-mail XFX or BFG with your system specs to be sure.

RAM is so cheap now it's not even funny.

Yup, I am probably going to go 4GB as well now.

G.Skill is a good brand, but I've heard its one of the least compatible RAM modules on the market.  You'll have to do some research to make sure it will work ok with that motherboard you selected.

He's right. From what I read, it is good in terms of performance and reliability, but can be a nightmare in terms of compatibility. Just check the newegg reviews to see how that particular Gskil stacks up with the mobo you buy.

Also not all Gskill brands are born equal. Just because one brand gets good reviews, doesn't mean the other will as well. I remember when I was shopping for mine, I was looking up Gskill, and there were two near identical products that had a price difference of $100 or so. Turned out the the more expensive one was released after with better performance and compatibility.

If you want to guarantee compatibility, you go for Kingston. While it isn't the fastest or the cheapest, it is the most reliable, and the first choice partner of AMD and Intel.

I've heard a lot of good things about G.skill, and so I decided to get 2 gigs of their RAM for my laptop.  It's been pretty good so far. Just as reliable as the others, I'd say.

I think it runs into problems when paired with motherboards that are less established. At least that's how it appears to me. However I looked at this a year ago.

Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU ATX 12V 2.0 500W Power Supply $59.99

Good choice.

Also, the G Skill ram is compatible with the mobo I have up there, I made sure to check before I made the list.  Should I go with another mobo still?

The better a motherboard, the more easily you will be able to overclock etc. If you are going to go with that processor, then you won't need to bother with overclocking, which means any reliable mobo would suit your purposes. If you are going to go for a cheaper processor with intention to overclock, then a classier mobo will make that easier. It is your choice.

Just make sure this mobo has enough SATA ports, USBs etc to suit your needs. Also it would help if the mobo supports quadcore processors, in case you want to upgrade in the future.

What other choices do you have in terms of mobos?

the G Skill ram is compatible with the mobo I have up there

You should be very happy with Gskill. They've established a large following over the past few years.

[gpw11]

That's pretty much the exact same PC I bought a while ago.  The Gskill RAM works with the mobo and I've gotten the CPU up to 3.4Ghz stable on stock cooling having no idea what I'm doing - at all. 

As for the PSU, I'd go name brand and get the most wattage you're willing to spend the money on, mainly just for future proofing.  I'm currently rocking a 450W, but I'm also dealing with a 7900GS which probably uses a lot less power. I plan on upgrading that when I get a new card. 

Really, the only issue I was concerned with at all was that the north bridge on the mobo apparently gets really hot, although I don't think that matters at all unless you're one of those huge over clockers.  If it does, you can get a cooler/heatsink for pretty much nothing.

[beo]

Definitely can get some good overclocking going on the processors with lower L2 caches, but from 1.6 to 3ghz on stock cooling is probably stretching it just a wee bit. My 2.2 E6400 is running at 2.81 since purchase, without fault. OC'ing is very easy, and can be managed with patient tweaking, and testing the higher clocking with Orthos. But you need RAM that comes with good heat spreaders to offset the heat generated by the higher RAM voltage.

unless you're changing the front side bus speed, overclocking won't make a difference to RAM, and you wont need to change voltages. "safe" overclocking of the intel duos is done with just a multiplier change, which soley affects the cpu. if you wanted to overclock the FSB to squeeze a tiny bit of extra juice out of the cpu and RAM, then yeah, you'd want fancy memory with heat spreaders - but it really doesn't work out in risk versus rewards game, and also costs a shitload more than the more vanilla options.

Really, the only issue I was concerned with at all was that the north bridge on the mobo apparently gets really hot, although I don't think that matters at all unless you're one of those huge over clockers.  If it does, you can get a cooler/heatsink for pretty much nothing.

again, northbridge heat shouldn't be a problem with multiplier overclocks.

anyway, i feel i'm probably addressing stuff here that is a bit redundant since most people don't bother with overclocking anyway.

[Pugnate]

Well when you push your CPU it automatically increases the ratio on the RAM, right?

edit:

How do you overclock by solely tweaking the multiplier? I followed overlcocking by using the anandtech guide and the AT forums, and I never heard of overclocking by just increasing the multiplier. I always thought the multipliers were locked?

[beo]

hmmm... i was pretty sure they were all unlocked, but a bit of digging reveals that i'm wrong. feel like a bit of a tit now! it seems that only the top end X series are multiplier unlocked.

saying that, all the motherboards i've had this century have allowed me to change the FSB ratio down on the RAM to match something closer to it's intended speed, which means when you overclock the processor, you really don't need to be doing the same to the memory.

[Pugnate]

But I like tits... and I like you too... OK that's weird, so I'll leave it.

As for changing FSB, from what I understand, you want your RAM to FSB ratio to ideally be as close to 1:1 as possible. If it is too low then you will start noticing sudden chops between smooth frames, which is why you want your RAM to keep up. At least that's how I understood it.

edit:

In the end this is all moot, because good DDR2 800 RAM is so cheap now anyway. I think the Gskill PoomC is buying has heat spreaders as it is.

[poomcgoo]

Yeah, I think they have the heat spreaders shown in the picture.  Either way I'm probably not gonna bother overclocking right away.  I haven't put much thought into it, but the fact that the core 2 duos are so easy and safe to overclock I want to try it out.  Whatever the case, that would be another help topic down the road since I'd need some assistance there as well.  I'm gonna order those parts today with the new psu I picked out.  Thanks for the help.


Now is there anywhere with a good guide on assembling the hsf/cpu?  I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing putting that together, especially with the Arctic Silver.

[scottws]

Well the CPU should come with an installation guide.  If you use the stock HS/F, it will usually already have some sort of waxy thermal compound on it.

When I use Arctic Silver, I use a razor blade (one of those rectangular ones that is like a cartridge) to spread a small amount out so that it covers the entire top of the CPU or CPU's heat spreader, but is a very thin layer.