Topic: Bioshock 1+2 -> Update: PC HD Remasters have some issues...

[Quemaqua]

I definitely didn't feel that way about it.  The atmosphere alone was enough to keep me going.  It wasn't perfect, but it was a great game.  That said, I'm not all that excited about this one just because I know nothing about it.  But I did love the first and that CE is pretty sweet.  I might have to lay my hands on that.  I already have the Doom 3 theme song on vinyl, signed by Chris Vrenna.

[K-man]

gotta say the soundtrack on vinyl really impresses me.  180 gram pressing is nice too. 

Vinyl really is making a steady comeback.

[Cobra951]

Which surprises the hell out of me.  I thought upping the bits and samples would eventually cure the 16-bit blues.  Vinyl is far from perfect even before the unavoidable wear and tear.

[Quemaqua]

Vinyl has a different sound to it than a CD.  By comparison, newer formats have a coldness and sterility about them that with vinyl is a warmth instead.  It's nothing something you can expect most people to understand, just like you can't expect most people to tell the difference between FLAC and MP3, but it's there nonetheless.  Sadly, I don't have a turntable anymore.  It's been a number of years.  I do own a few other records, though.

[Cobra951]

That warmth and superior presence is due to its pure analog nature.  Digital sampling of the waveform has to be much better than redbook audio allows in order to be good enough to replace analog.  We can do that now, technically, which is why I made the comment.

I still have my Thorens 160C with Shure V15-III cart.  I recently rescued it from storage.  Got all my 200+ albums out of there too.  Now it's just a matter of getting the gumption to set it all up again.  I haven't cared enough yet.

[MysterD]

Vinyl has a different sound to it than a CD.  By comparison, newer formats have a coldness and sterility about them that with vinyl is a warmth instead.  It's nothing something you can expect most people to understand, just like you can't expect most people to tell the difference between FLAC and MP3, but it's there nonetheless.  Sadly, I don't have a turntable anymore.  It's been a number of years.  I do own a few other records, though.

I've seen some stores like Best Buy sell a USB-based turntable for like $80 or so...

[W7RE]

The only record player I ever had was something like this:

[Quemaqua]

Really?  USB record players?  Because that would be kind of awesome.

[MysterD]

Really?  USB record players?  Because that would be kind of awesome.

Yes, they exist.

[Cobra951]

Since vinyl is played by scraping a stylus along its surface, it's imperative to have a turntable, tonearm and cart that work together to minimize damage, if albums are to last more than a few plays.  $80 including all the electronics for PC hookup does not fill me with such confidence.

[MysterD]

Since vinyl is played by scraping a stylus along its surface, it's imperative to have a turntable, tonearm and cart that work together to minimize damage, if albums are to last more than a few plays.  $80 including all the electronics for PC hookup does not fill me with such confidence.

Do you know of any really good USB record players and turntables than, Cobra?

[MysterD]

Bioshock 2 DLC confirmed.

[Cobra951]

joystiq:  It's been kind of weird, nobody can seem to really pinpoint what your relationship is with BioShock 2. Your name was all over the first one, do you want to clarify: What is your relationship with BioShock 2?

Ken Levine:  I don't have ... except for being the studio that created the world and the franchise. You know: Andrew Ryan, Big Daddies and Little Sisters and all those things. We don't have a connection with BioShock 2. I haven't really seen it.

Hmm.  Can it still be very good?

[Pugnate]

I have absolutely no interest in this game at all.

Zero.

What stood out for me in the first was the world, the visuals, the art, and the music.

If I want to experience that again I'll play the first... and while I really enjoyed it quite a bit, I am frankly done with that world.

The action was above average, though at times didn't feel as natural a shooter as it should have.

While there was plenty to look forward to before the release of the first Bioshock, I haven't seen anything new that would make me buy the second.

I can't say that won't change, but my feelings on this are similar to that of F.E.A.R. 2...

[MysterD]

I have absolutely no interest in this game at all.

Zero.

I have nowhere as much interest as the original. It just seems too soon and the MP doesn't seem to be anything super-special.

What stood out for me in the first was the world, the visuals, the art, and the music.

Amen.

The action was above average, though at times didn't feel as natural a shooter as it should have.

I thought the ease of switching b/t the shooting and the magic was what made the game as kick-ass as it was.

While there was plenty to look forward to before the release of the first Bioshock, I haven't seen anything new that would make me buy the second.

I can't say that won't change, but my feelings on this are similar to that of F.E.A.R. 2...

I'll get Bioshock 2 probably at a later said date. I dunno, but after how great the original was IMHO, I really think it's too soon for Bioshock 2.

If Levine's Irrational Games Boston were doing Bioshock 2 and doing some cool new stuff to it, I'd be interested in this ASAP. Unfortunately, this ain't the case.

Though, I would like to see what the hell is next from Levine...

[Quemaqua]

Yeah, that sort of sums up my thoughts on it.  I don't know that it'll be bad or not worth the time, but I'll need proof that it's worth playing before I spend any time or money on it.

[Pugnate]

I just listened to the latest Giantbombcast, and those guys are basically saying the same thing. So I guess we aren't the only ones.

I had a look at one of the "leaked" multiplayer gameplay vids, and some of it shocked me as to how carbon copy it looks. They seem to be basically recycling ALL of the art assets. If you are going to be recycling basically everything that made the first game special, then what is your selling point?

I realize that since they are doing another game in Rapture, there isn't much they can do, but it feels like they took the decision to not do anything too drastically different to keep the cost of production as low as possible.

[Quemaqua]

I still wish they'd do something different.  Like instead of more broken Rapture, make an RPG set in Rapture when it was a functioning city and such.  I think that would be so cool.  After two games you've got a huge portion of the city mapped out already, and even built for all intents and purposes.  Just un-break it and you've already got a huge gameworld to fill with interesting characters and gameplay.

There's so much this franchise could do that will never be done... and that's a damned shame.

[MysterD]

I just listened to the latest Giantbombcast, and those guys are basically saying the same thing. So I guess we aren't the only ones.

I had a look at one of the "leaked" multiplayer gameplay vids, and some of it shocked me as to how carbon copy it looks. They seem to be basically recycling ALL of the art assets. If you are going to be recycling basically everything that made the first game special, then what is your selling point?

I realize that since they are doing another game in Rapture, there isn't much they can do, but it feels like they took the decision to not do anything too drastically different to keep the cost of production as low as possible.

This also makes me wonder - why didn't they just sell this as a true-blue expansion pack (original game required) or a stand-alone expansion (in which either would be at the $30 pricing)?

[Quemaqua]

You answered your own question.

[MysterD]

You answered your own question.

Of course - the real answer is b/c they probably feel people will buy it at full price - a la Halo 3: ODST.

[Quemaqua]

It's a stupid argument to bother making at this point anyway because we have no true idea what's in it or what it's really doing.  Who knows, maybe it'll turn out awesome.  And just because it's set in the same place doesn't really mean they get to constantly reuse old material.  They're still going to have to build a lot of new stuff.  At least presumably.  And if the whole thing really is nothing more than a recycled mess, then you can expect to hear about it as soon as a review or two pop up.

[MysterD]

Looks like 2K Marin is already trying to debunk what people are thinking - Bioshock 2 MP is just "shoved on."

Also, looks like PC Gamer gave Bioshock 2 PC a 90%.
PSM3 gave it a 93%.
Interesting.

[Quemaqua]

well, that certainly seems like a good thing.

[MysterD]

well, that certainly seems like a good thing.

Off to a good start, so far.
Of course, let's see how the other reviews pan out and all...
Surely, it's gonna be interesting.

[K-man]

My opinion of this game is slowly warming.  I'm still not a huge fan of being a Big Daddy, but hey.

I wasn't terribly warm on the first one in the beginning...

[K-man]

Oooh and I ignored the above talk about turntables and such.

Basically those USB turntables are marketed to copy your vinyl to MP3.  I wouldn't use one long term unless it was maybe the Sony one at Best Buy.

If you're interested the best bet is to buy a used vintage turntable.  For example, mine is a vintage Pioneer PL-115D that I bought off Craigslist.  One day I'll upgrade to a ProJect Debut or a Rega P3, but for now the Pioneer setup I have is more than adequate.

[MysterD]

I just listened to the latest Giantbombcast, and those guys are basically saying the same thing. So I guess we aren't the only ones.

Thanks Pug, for mentioning that Bombcast.
I just listened to it.

Here's that Giant-Bombcast.
Talk on Bioshock 2 takes place from 39:13 to 53:54.

[MysterD]

System Requirements and DRM outlined on Steam.
And no, the DRM is not pretty...

System Requirements

      Minimum:
          o OS: Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7
          o Processor: AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3800+ 2.4Ghz or better, Intel Pentium 4 530 3.0Ghz Processor or better
          o Memory: 2GB
          o Graphics: NVIDIA 7800GT 256MB graphics card or better, ATI Radeon X1900 256MB graphics card or better
          o DirectX®: DirectX 9.0c
          o Hard Drive: 11GB
          o Sound: 100% DirectX 9.0C compliant sound card or onboard sound
          o DRM Information: SecuROM offers unlimited activations on up to 5 PCs.

      Recommended:
          o Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Dual Core 2.60Ghz, Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 Dual Core 2.13Ghz
          o Memory: 3GB
          o Graphics: NVIDIA 8800GT 512MB graphics card or better, ATI Radeon HD4830 512MB graphics card or better
          o Other Requirements: Initial installation requires one-time internet connection; Ability to save game, earn achievements, receive title updates and online play requires log-in to Games for Windows LIVE; software installations required including Microsoft Visual C++2008 Runtime Libraries, Games for Windows LIVE client, Games for Windows LIVE Client Patch, Sony DADC SecuROM, Microsoft DirectX.

[Pugnate]

Thanks Pug, for mentioning that Bombcast.
I just listened to it.

Here's that Giant-Bombcast.
Talk on Bioshock 2 takes place from 39:13 to 53:54.

You freak me out sometimes.

[Quemaqua]

You can't even save your game without being in GFWL?  Fuck that shit.  I'll wait for somebody to find a way to crack it.  No way I'm being forced to use that pile of shit.

[Pugnate]

hahah I just read that. Insanity... especially when you consider that GFWL is completely broken piece of shit. My own issues with that service and Arkham Asylum can be found on these forums... and you want me to rely on *that* to save my game?

Crazy.

[scottws]

Well it sounds lile this game is an automatic pass.

[MysterD]

hahah I just read that. Insanity... especially when you consider that GFWL is completely broken piece of shit. My own issues with that service and Arkham Asylum can be found on these forums... and you want me to rely on *that* to save my game?

Crazy.

Can't you just copy the ONLINE SAVE folder over to your OFFLINE PROFILE a la other G4WL games like GTA4 or Fallout 3?

EDIT:
2K Elizabeth says DRM install limit that was listed on Steam as the 5 install limit is wrong.
Install limit count is set to FIFTEEN.

[MysterD]

Elizabeth clarifes the whole Bioshock 2 - PC Version's DRM situation on Securom and G4WL even more so.

Scaling Back BioShock 2's DRM
January 22, 2010
Elizabeth

Over the past two days, I’ve fielded a lot of questions and concerns about the DRM for both the retail and digital versions of BioShock 2. Because of this feedback, we are scaling back BioShock 2’s DRM.

There will be no SecuROM install limits for either the retail or digital editions of BioShock 2, and SecuROM will be used only to verify the game’s executable and check the date.

Beyond that, we are only using standard Games for Windows Live non-SSA guidelines, which, per Microsoft, comes with 15 activations (after that, you can reset them with a call to Microsoft.)

What does that mean for your gameplay experience? This means that BioShock 2’s new DRM is now similar to many popular games you advised had better DRM through both digital and retail channels. Many of you have used Batman: Arkham Asylum as an example to me, which uses the exact same Games for Windows Live guidelines as us as well as SecuROM on retail discs, and now our SecuROM is less restrictive on Steam.

I know that the variables of PC gaming can be frustrating and confusing, and when you say there is a problem, we listen, and use your suggestions to make things better. Feedback like this does not go unheard, and while this might not be the ideal protection for everyone, we will continue to listen and work with you in the future when formulating our DRM plans.

[W7RE]

1. Choose intended level of DRM
2. Announce ridiculous DRM for your game
3. Listen to the outcry
4. Scale it back to your intended level and get praised for it

It's not the first time we've seen this.

[scottws]

The install limits were the turn-off for me.  This game is back in consideration, though I'd like to see a lot less restrictions still.  DRM doesn't stop piracy.  All it's doing is making it less likely that games of this era will work on computers five or ten years from now.

I still don't get why games tied to Steam have tons of other DRM stuff applied to them.  Isn't Steam's DRM pretty secure in and of itself?

[MysterD]

1. Choose intended level of DRM
2. Announce ridiculous DRM for your game
3. Listen to the outcry
4. Scale it back to your intended level and get praised for it

It's not the first time we've seen this.

See these boards.
LOTS of outcry STILL.

People are now complaining that having two different DRM's is redundant - I agree there. Either pick one or the other - gamers want either just Securom only OR just G4WL only. From what I'm reading in these 24 pages though, a lot of Securom hate - b/c many feel it acts like a root-key (and go into details of how Securom works).

Also, some are complaining b/c there is no mention of revokes allowed on the G4WL 15 installs allowed limit and we don't know what G4WL considers "the use of an install."

[MysterD]

The install limits were the turn-off for me.  This game is back in consideration, though I'd like to see a lot less restrictions still.  DRM doesn't stop piracy.  All it's doing is making it less likely that games of this era will work on computers five or ten years from now.

I still don't get why games tied to Steam have tons of other DRM stuff applied to them.  Isn't Steam's DRM pretty secure in and of itself?

While I do think Steam's DRM is pretty good in doing what it does (stopping Zero Day Piracy and that's about it), Modern Warfare 2 PC (which REQUIRES Steam period) in the end was the most pirated PC game of 2009.

[scottws]

Well, like I said, nothing stops piracy.  At best all they can do is make it somewhat inconvenient.  I thought Steam does a pretty good job with that, no?